RIP MM - maxer clan

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Originally Posted by iBork

I think offense weight should be removed entirely. The offense weight is not a good measure for fair matches. The MM needs to use defense weight as the sole measuring criteria with a default defense weight for a TH.

A defenseless TH11 with max troops has the same offense weight as a max defense/offense TH11. So adding weight to offense does nothing at all as far as lopsided defenseless bases vs max defense bases.

The offense weight of a Max TH10 with max heroes is the same as a semi maxed TH11 with 35/35/20 heroes because of the high offense weight they have given to heroes. However, a TH11 has much, much more weight defensively. Even if that TH has no Eagle, but does have some defenses at TH11 Level, that base's defense weight is much heavier than a max TH10.

But because they have increased the offense weight substantially, A max hero TH110 is very close to the offense weight of a TH11 in many cases. This is the problem.

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You have got to be kidding, right?

Then people could add 10 defencless 11s with Max offence to a war, and have 10 free Max offence attacks. How could this possibly make things more fair? Having offencesive weight, and matching 2 values by Iether a double or single list will make things more fair, but removing offensive weight will simply mean defencless 11s and any account with potent offence will have a significant advantage.

currently a 10.5 with th10 defence and maxed 11 offence at least brings in a moderate th11 most times, take away offence weight and it will bring in the same thing on average that a maxed 10 will bring in, despite having Max 11 offence.

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Originally Posted by Vikingchief

You have got to be kidding, right?

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Was just going to say the same thing. what he is suggesting is the exact reason people/clans started engineering in the 1st place.

Imo wardens need more war weight added and the th itself needs some sort of weight also.

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Originally Posted by TexasMo

Was just going to say the same thing. what he is suggesting is the exact reason people/clans started engineering in the 1st place.

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Me three.

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A defenseless TH11 with max troops has the same offense weight as a max defense/offense TH11. So adding weight to offense does nothing at all as far as lopsided defenseless bases vs max defense bases.

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@iBork - this logic makes sense if and ONLY if the defenceless TH11 and the full TH11 are currently matching each other. In which case adjusting their weights by the same amount would have no effect.

But they don't. The defless TH11 matches to a TH9 (for example). The TH9 has much lower offence weight. So adding emphasis to the offence weights increases the overall weight of the defless TH11 much more than the TH9, and they no longer match. Which is what we wanted.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

Me three.



@iBork - this logic makes sense if and ONLY if the defenceless TH11 and the full TH11 are currently matching each other. In which case adjusting their weights by the same amount would have no effect.

But they don't. The defless TH11 matches to a TH9 (for example). The TH9 has much lower offence weight. So adding emphasis to the offence weights increases the overall weight of the defless TH11 much more than the TH9, and they no longer match. Which is what we wanted.

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i hink i remember someone making a point similar to iBorks before, that a defenceless 11 matches to a th9, which is three starred by another th9, giving the clan 2 free attacks anyway (a little different to iBorks point that both clans simply get a shift in weight, and rememeber IBork doesnt believe theres in lane matching).

The solution of course is not to disregard offensive weight, for the reasons already proposed, its to use 2 values and then single or double list, or to use a nerf style weight tax, or to weigh offence in front of defence (not in favour but is a solution to defencless).

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Originally Posted by Vikingchief

You have got to be kidding, right?

Then people could add 10 defencless 11s with Max offence to a war, and have 10 free Max offence attacks. How could this possibly make things more fair? Having offencesive weight, and matching 2 values by Iether a double or single list will make things more fair, but removing offensive weight will simply mean defencless 11s and any account with potent offence will have a significant advantage.

currently a 10.5 with th10 defence and maxed 11 offence at least brings in a moderate th11 most times, take away offence weight and it will bring in the same thing on average that a maxed 10 will bring in, despite having Max 11 offence.

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They could, but those defenseless TH11 would have the same defense weight, as a minimum, of a max TH10 defense weight. I did say, "with a default defense weight for a TH"

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Originally Posted by TexasMo

Was just going to say the same thing. what he is suggesting is the exact reason people/clans started engineering in the 1st place.

Imo wardens need more war weight added and the th itself needs some sort of weight also.

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If it was defense weight only, if the MM was calculating defense weight as the only factor, TH10's would no longer be matched with TH11's that have Warden. Because the Warden would be counted as added defense weight that the TH10 does not have. The key here, is that the MM would have to add non existent defense weight, a TH would have a default weight, no matter if it's defenseless or not.

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Originally Posted by iBork

They could, but those defenseless TH11 would have the same defense weight, as a minimum, of a max TH10 defense weight. I did say, "with a default defense weight for a TH"

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So someone could then have a new 11 with Max offence and Max th10 defence, and weights the same as a Max townhall 10? Ignoring offence simply doesnt make sense.

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Originally Posted by Vikingchief

So someone could then have a new 11 with Max offence and Max th10 defence, and weights the same as a Max townhall 10? Ignoring offence simply doesnt make sense.

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If he has Warden, he would weight more than a Max TH10, wouldn't he? Defensively?

Weird. My 2 clans running maxed bases matches have been very good ( except 1 )

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Originally Posted by iBork

If he has Warden, he would weight more than a Max TH10, wouldn't he? Defensively?

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Barely

but then lets say a Max 10 just upgraded to 11 plus a lev 10 warden and nothing else upgraded versus a Max 10 just upgrade with lev 10 warden and lev 3 bowler and witch. Those 2 should not weigh the same but If you ignore offence they do. Its clearly not a good system given the alternatives.