Matchmaking and what needs to be done to fix war matchmaking

This is a long thread pls read it fully

We dont know about how matchmaking actually works
From what supercell released about matchmaking over time has led to the conclusion that offense and defense has a weight value and the total of it is the total weight of a base
Now from watching the matchmaking it seems the system first takes overall weight of one clan roster in consideration then individuals

Equal overall weight √
No of each town halls×

Often you will see there are two low townhalls at the bottom of the map while your clan doesn't have any th3-7
So it means their weight has been contributed to a higher townhall in overall weight

There is a popular storage system to calculate a base's weight
In war day check how much gold is in one of your storage and multiply it with 5
Suppose there is 17000gold in a gold storage, so your weight is 17000*5=85k

The townhalls are sorted in the war map as their weight
Now a th3s in the bottom of the map has a weight of 3k and your clan has a 65k weight of th9 at the bottom so 62k difference if we think that the total weight of each other is close to equal then the 62 will need to be distributed in other bases of your opponent
Thats cool and all
now a max th8 has a maximum gold weight of 58k(not sure)
A max th9 has a maximum weight of 70k
A max th10 - 90k
A max th11- 110k

Now suppose a engineered th11 has two lvl3 inferno,lvl1eagle artillery and other low lvl defenses for his th and only troops he uses in war maxed,maxed heroes,max walls totalling out his weight to 87k
Now a well developed balanced th10 of 87k with paltry 32/35 heroes,not maxed troops,ok walls is the true mirror of that th11
Thats obviously not fair match
eagle artillery is a tremendous defensive tower
But thats what is happening in matchmaking, if there is higher weight townhalls in the bottom it doesnt matter,everyone has two atks,someone can clear it
But mismatch in the top can not be covered because there isnt anyone at top who can overcome a well engineered th11 with th10 troops

To fix it th10 and th11 needs to have a separate weight system which emphasizes heroes,walls,defenses,offense seperately with significance
Because th10 and th11 have special powerful defenses like inferno and eagle artillery ( i would take lvl9 cannons and 1lvl1inferno tower than having all lvl11 cannons, even if their weight is same overcoming a inferno is very hard for a th9)

Lvl10 and lvl11 Walls needs to be weighted more at higher townhalls,gap of a lvl9 wall and lvl11 is more than twice

Troops which contains bulk of a war army should be weighted more, max goblin and max hog cannot be of same weight

10/10 heroes and 30/30 heroes has a big difference, that should be highlighted on weight system, every th10,11 knows the significance of high lvl heroes in war

In the end engineering needs to penalized in war, yes its ones wish how he wants to grow his village but that shouldn't be used to unfairly take advantage on war
To ensure fairplay in war engineering has to be penalized

Heres a weight system implemented by champions war league staffs to make sure th10s arent mismatched despite having equal gold weight
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1S9LuBwHedfF7d3HCrCPgFsHBJxHI-cn423hLKG_F9DI/edit?usp=drivesdk

Bases on the war map are sorted based on their defensive weight. Storages are only showing defensive weights. So it doesn't matter how you arrange town halls on the war map, the base on the other side is not the true mirror.

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Originally Posted by mohaiminul1820

In the end engineering needs to penalized in war, yes its ones wish how he wants to grow his village but that shouldn't be used to unfairly take advantage on war
To ensure fairplay in war engineering has to be penalized

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Engineered bases shouldn't penalized but they should get paired against a clan similar to theirs.

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Originally Posted by mmmaka3m

Engineered bases shouldn't penalized but they should get paired against a clan similar to theirs.

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I did say true mirror when comparing them

You are saying engineers should band together and open thier orange league or farm war alliance, they dont want that,they are deliberately doing it in normal clans whether their intention is of taking advantage or not

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Originally Posted by mmmaka3m

Bases on the war map are sorted based on their defensive weight. Storages are only showing defensive weights. So it doesn't matter how you arrange town halls on the war map, the base on the other side is not the true mirror.

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Gold weight measures offense as well,otherwise a th11 with single lvl1 cannon with max offense would be weighed as 1k which is not,it weighs as 39k or more

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Originally Posted by mohaiminul1820

The townhalls are sorted in the war map as their weight

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Originally Posted by mmmaka3m

Bases on the war map are sorted based on their defensive weight. Storages are only showing defensive weights. .

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As mmmaka3m states, you are referring to 'DEFENSIVE' weight only. A TH9 max base has a defensive weight of 70k.
CWL admins use the spreadsheet you posted as it's easily understandable for CWL clans to compare defences. They assume max offence to a degree.:)

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Originally Posted by mohaiminul1820

Gold weight measures offense as well,otherwise a th11 with single lvl1 cannon with max offense would be weighed as 1k which is not,it weighs as 39k or more

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No. Heroes have both offence and defence weight. Your gold storage values are your approximate defence weight only.

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Originally Posted by mohaiminul1820

This is a long thread pls read it fully

We dont know about how matchmaking actually works

eagle artillery is a tremendous defensive tower

To fix it th10 and th11 needs to have a separate weight system which emphasizes heroes,walls,defenses,offense seperately with significance
Because th10 and th11 have special powerful defenses like inferno and eagle artillery ( i would take lvl9 cannons and 1lvl1inferno tower than having all lvl11 cannons, even if their weight is same overcoming a inferno is very hard for a th9)

Lvl10 and lvl11 Walls needs to be weighted more at higher townhalls,gap of a lvl9 wall and lvl11 is more than twice

To ensure fairplay in war engineering has to be penalized

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to be clear, the engineers are the ones hiding eagle and infenoes with low level defences, and this is part of the problem? Did you happen to be in chargé the supercell dev team in early 2016?

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Originally Posted by mmmaka3m

Engineered bases shouldn't penalized but they should get paired against a clan similar to theirs.

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A perfect matchmaker would accurately measure their useful weight on offense and defense and make them have no disadvantage, but also no advantage. Do you think SC can still implement such a matchmaker?

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Originally Posted by 2222

A perfect matchmaker would accurately measure their useful weight on offense and defense and make them have no disadvantage, but also no advantage. Do you think SC can still implement such a matchmaker?

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It's hard to do, maybe impossible to do, but that should be the goal, not punishing engineers.

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Originally Posted by mmmaka3m

It's hard to do, maybe impossible to do, but that should be the goal, not punishing engineers.

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Doubt true fairness is possible, game mechanics (upgrade path diversity) and war pool size issues are insurmountable. There are plenty of easy weight tweaks that would be improvements however. Many of them have been obvious for years, harped on endlessly in the forum, without any SC correction. No way they're not aware of the concerns, they just prefer things this way.

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

There are plenty of easy weight tweaks that would be improvements however. .

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So I've always thought Tank... but I keep thinking about Darian's announcement, in particular :-

"Furthermore, we have also built in a certain degree of flexibility into the new system that allows us to fine tune the matchmaking weights as needed. This will allow us to monitor the matchmaking, make changes if we feel the weights are either too heavy or not heavy enough"

I discussed this today with Onyx, and he suggested that :-
" I'm guessing the war weights were embedded in the code. They have a lot of CSV files on the client, and it's entirely possible the weights were a CSV embedded as a resource on the server. Requiring a recompile and replace to alter it. My best guess was maybe they extracted that to a database"

Beyond my technical understanding to be honest, but maybe these easy tweaks weren't as easy to implement as I've always assumed!:confused:

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Originally Posted by Skrags

I discussed this today with Onyx, and he suggested that :-
" I'm guessing the war weights were embedded in the code. They have a lot of CSV files on the client, and it's entirely possible the weights were a CSV embedded as a resource on the server. Requiring a recompile and replace to alter it. My best guess was maybe they extracted that to a database"

Beyond my technical understanding to be honest, but maybe these easy tweaks weren't as easy to implement as I've always assumed!:confused:

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Largely beyond my technical understanding as well. But even for a small team that can't have been a big deal across a several year timeframe.
And I don't see a reason to let SC off the hook due the 'small team' constraint, because that's SCs self imposed constraint. They could hire a second team for a 'fix the mm project'. Would it cost SC more than a couple days worth of revenue?


ETA - We've seen weight changes with many updates though. Weight changes can't be that hard, because we see them all the time.

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

ETA - We've seen weight changes with many updates though. Weight changes can't be that hard, because we see them all the time.

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Do we?
Eagle and Inferno changes in March 2016 announcement - tick!
When else?
Adding the bomb tower didn't change the max defence weight of a TH8 or TH9, just slightly squished some of the other weights I'd guess, but the max weight remained unchanged.
This is just off the top of my head so I may just not remember other announced changes. Can you?:unsure:

You point out the bomb tower, there've also been changes from upgradable springs, blower. New troops, new wall levels, new wall counts. Any update that adds anything, offense or defense, to a given TH involves an overhaul of individual item weights to keep the max weight for that TH constant. Might be hard to point to a patch that didn't involve weight changes.
But you're asking for announced weight changes, no I don't think they ever do that :).

Just done my 4th war search and its a fair war my only gripe was the length of the war search