Can someone from SC please define what "engineering" is.

The announcement of a tweak in algorithms has turned into a total poo storm. People who have a rushed base are now engineers, people who are building up their base to the next TH lvl but not planting higher weight buildings are engineers, clans that put in fillers down bottom of the map to make up numbers are engineers, people that are focusing more on heros than def are engineers, people that are building def rather than heros are engineers, people that are focusing on walls but not def are engineers. In the current climate my mums sisters sons grandmothers poodle would be an engineer. Please, for the sake of some sort of harmony can someone from SC please give a better definition as to what the war on engineering actually is.

Yes, if we are getting crappy war matchups because we are flagged as a clan with engineered accounts, please explain what that is. Are the 2 fresh TH10s who don't have a single TH10 upgrade done, but haven't dropped their infernos yet considered engineered accounts?

Put a little star by them when I go to start a war so we can actually get a fair matchup if having what you consider an engineered account so I can leave them out of the war - if putting them in means we'll match a clan with 5 TH11s with max air troops and GWs if I include them in the war search.

Hello Dibbs

I will not be discussing the matchmaker subject, and update; instead answer you question from the release:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperCell Release

We wanted to share with you that we are making improvements to how the algorithm functions in order to address “engineered bases” in the matchmaking feature. This new functionality will take more into account as far as “total weight” is concerned with regards to both defense and offense. What this means for you is that your Clan will be more evenly matched against other Clans that have similar builds.

One of the challenges in creating a matchmaking system is to allow players to retain their creativity in their base design and play style. We wanted to make sure that your strategies are not invalidated; just more evenly matched against others who share your play style. Our improved algorithm is an evolutionary step in making sure Clans will be matched more frequently against opponents of equivalent difficulty. Furthermore, we have also built in a certain degree of flexibility into the new system that allows us to fine tune the matchmaking weights as needed. This will allow us to monitor the matchmaking, make changes if we feel the weights are either too heavy or not heavy enough.

---

Deconstructing the phrase bolded in the quote above: Supercell considers "engineering" where there is an unbalance of offense versus defense. Again, SuperCell emphasize that the matchmaker takes the clan as one entity, not as individual elements.

In addition, it appears from the underlined phrase in the quote above, that the perception of mismatching, or unfair matching isn't clear to SuperCell either, and more updates/adjustments will come.

No actual details of the matchmaking algorithm being available to my knowledge, only predictions or estimations of its behavior, I would assume that the previous algorithm was only partially taking that difference in account. The update could have increased the importance of measured differences into the matchmaking algorithm. The statement from SuperCell does not indicate a bias toward more offense or more defense, just that both are considered in the matchmaking, more than before.

Hence leading to believe that maybe any wide difference (amount t.b.d.) between offense and defense could be considered "engineered", depending on their influence on the matchmaker.

Hope this helps you.

I do believe SC issued a statement re: engineering but rephrased it as lopsided bases. Would prob show up in a search.

Matchups for us have been great. Jus smoked a Reddit maxer clan. We both have 5 max th 11s we had 1 max 10. They had 7 max 10s. We had 6 11s with no inferno or eagle and they couldn't 3 star them. Say what you want about engineers but we r more advanced attackers then those who choose to max out.

They have explained, it is just you who dont want to read.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dibbs12345

In the current climate my mums sisters sons grandmothers poodle would be an engineer.

---

Lol XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MazerFromAbove

Put a little star by them when I go to start a war so we can actually get a fair matchup if having what you consider an engineered account so I can leave them out of the war

---

I think this could make it too easy to trick the algorithm (stop upgrading defenses when the star disappears) but maybe good engineers know it already ... :smirk:

The new mm is very good for us. One war against maxers and two against clans with bad engineered bases. The war against the maxers was very unfair, the two other wars are easy but not impossible for them to tie/win.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eleach86

Say what you want about engineers but we r more advanced attackers then those who choose to max out.

---

That's a pretty ridiculous statement. You may have a clan full of good attackers. Attack skill and not putting down defenses to gain an advantage have little to no correlation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eleach86

Matchups for us have been great. Jus smoked a Reddit maxer clan. We both have 5 max th 11s we had 1 max 10. They had 7 max 10s. We had 6 11s with no inferno or eagle and they couldn't 3 star them. Say what you want about engineers but we r more advanced attackers then those who choose to max out.

---

That's not an overwhelming amount of data to support your claim. It comes off as a bit arrogant.

We r 3 staring max th 10s. They cannot 3 star a th 11 with no inferno or eagle... which takes more skill?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eleach86

We r 3 staring max th 10s. They cannot 3 star a th 11 with no inferno or eagle... which takes more skill?

---

You may have skilled attackers but that doesn't mean that all engineers are great attackers. You seem to have completely missed the point

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eleach86

We r 3 staring max th 10s. They cannot 3 star a th 11 with no inferno or eagle... which takes more skill?

---

Max heroes and troops? All other defenses maxed? It's harder to 3 star the th11 as a th10 imo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eleach86

Matchups for us have been great. Jus smoked a Reddit maxer clan. We both have 5 max th 11s we had 1 max 10. They had 7 max 10s. We had 6 11s with no inferno or eagle and they couldn't 3 star them. Say what you want about engineers but we r more advanced attackers then those who choose to max out.

---

So you had 22 TH11 attacks compared to their 10.

Oh yeah, quite advanced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eleach86

We r 3 staring max th 10s. They cannot 3 star a th 11 with no inferno or eagle... which takes more skill?

---

I'm not denying your skill. You are stating an entire group (maxers) in the rather large CoC player base as having less skill and only providing anecdotal evidence at best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colin94

Max heroes and troops? All other defenses maxed? It's harder to 3 star the th11 as a th10 imo.

---

Probably as TH10 or TH11. A max infernoless TH11 is stronger than a max TH10.

To give some background I'm a maxer. 1 TH11, 1 TH10, 2 xTH9 & 3x TH8 (all true max, walls & heros inc) plus a TH11 currently upgrading to max. My point was without any more clarification as to what an engineer actually is, vast majority here on forum will be disappointed by any improvements made to MM. I fully understand SC don't want to give any hints as to how to "bend the system" but reading through lots of posts on related threads whole atmosphere is quite simply toxic. Guessing some are complaining of bad matches when it's not the case. Got the feeling lots of the TH vs TH equivalent's posted don't take into account the full picture of how advanced each TH actually is. Lazy should always get you killed but underdeveloped bases/ engineers are very hard to differentiate. Until SC finally come out with a better explanation of what's wrong many will still unknowingly complain without knowing they are part of the problem.

Blast from the past. March 3, 2016 Anoushka posted. I changed the font color. This was right after the TH11 / end of townhall sniping / learning to manage shoelds and guards update and was largely missed in the flurry of other activity.

1. War sizes 35v35 and 45v45 are being removed in order to boost available matches in other war sizes;
2. Clan Wars matchmaking will place a much greater emphasis on defensive (village) progress, and less emphasis on offensive (army) progress;
3. Powerful, late-game defenses and troops like Inferno Towers, Eagle Artillery and Grand Warden will have much greater matchmaking impact;
4. Clan Wars matchmaking will favor matches between Clans with similar recent win/loss records in their recent wars;
5. Team-versus-team compositional checks have been added to help weed out imbalanced war matchups.

I might some day track down every post where SC has mentioned improving clan war MM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eleach86

Say what you want about engineers but we r more advanced attackers then those who choose to max out.

---

This might be the single, dumbest comment I've ever read on these forums. And, that's saying something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eleach86

We r 3 staring max th 10s. They cannot 3 star a th 11 with no inferno or eagle... which takes more skill?

---

You should be 3 starring Max 10s if you're an engineered 11. 3 starring a max 10 has nothing to do with your defense and ONLY to do with your offense. Vice versa, the max 10 still only has 10 offenses so yeah, it would be more difficult for a 10. And, TBH, an 11 with proper 11 troops should be able to 3 star a max 10 in his/her sleep, so that's not exactly saying a whole lot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colin94

Max heroes and troops? All other defenses maxed? It's harder to 3 star the th11 as a th10 imo.

---

Agreed, but no amount of logic will change anyone's mind on this subject.

since the update, my clan can't get a war match up! hours and hours....stopping it, restarting it....hours again...even let it run all night...still nothing. You mean to tell me that there are no 15 member clans out there that want a war? I don't get it...after 5 years of hard work getting the clan where it is today....this makes me sick.

Engineering is when you max your cannons and troops you attack with, but not your wiz towers and troops you don't use.

everyone is an engineer because we design bases and build/upgrade in our own ways.

the smart war engineers are the ones you probably the one you want to talk about. They design bases and build/upgrade according to the current meta. They always adapt depending on what type of base would give advantages. The main goal is to get an advantage thru the build/upgrade design. Due to the recent changes, it will be hard to tell exactly which type of bases gives advantages now. Im sure they will found out sooner or later.

A person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or public works.

Mornin', guys,

what's with all these "what is defined as engineering" discussions that are going on currently? Did I miss something in SC's announcements? :confused:

IIRC they stated that they would tweak the MM algorithm to apply a more balanced weighting of both offence and defence. The matches players see must be a result of that algorithm and nothing else.

Nowhere (again, maybe I missed it) did they say that they would employ "psychic octopus" style detection to flag bases as "engineered" and intentionally give these clans a crappy match. So what's all the fuss about?

You win a few, you lose a few.

When we are less than 10 active players and want to war anyway, of course we put our smallest bases in as fillers. Is this "roster engineering"? And if yes, so what?
I intend to max my TH 9 mini without crossbows and leave the walls at level 8 just for the cool looks. Engineered base? Maybe ...

You cannot get a perfect match given the diversity of players and clans. Imagine you could accept or skip like in multiplayer ... every match we would accept the opponent clan would skip most probably.

The worst matches against us are if they have 3 maxed or almost maxed TH 10 on top while we have only 2. This means one less star for us almost certainly, since they will easily three-star our #3.
The best matches in our favour are rushed or engineered TH 11 at the top. I can three-star these (did so with #1 and #2 in our first and only perfect 30-star war) easier than maxed or almost maxed TH 10. That clan was heavily engineered, BTW, defenceless at the bottom etc. So? We won. Then again we will lose again sooner or later.

Well, that's just my experience and opinion on the topic. If there really is some new mechanic in place that "detects" engineering, I'd like to know. I still consider it just the outcome of the new weight algorithm and nothing else for now.

Clash on,
Patrick

STILL NO WAR MATCH UPS! This is supercells way of balancing???? I think it is their way of saying good riddance and we are simply collateral damage for them. My clan has disbanded and everyone is upset.

definition of engineer =

1 design and build (a machine or structure).
2 skilfully arrange for (something) to occur.

So pretty much everyone is "enginnered"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artimi

STILL NO WAR MATCH UPS! This is supercells way of balancing???? I think it is their way of saying good riddance and we are simply collateral damage for them. My clan has disbanded and everyone is upset.

---

A support ticket supercell on this issue

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artimi

since the update, my clan can't get a war match up! hours and hours....stopping it, restarting it....hours again...even let it run all night...still nothing. You mean to tell me that there are no 15 member clans out there that want a war? I don't get it...after 5 years of hard work getting the clan where it is today....this makes me sick.

---

There probably aren't enough 15 member clans with a th11 anchor, 6 engineered bases, 4 lower th bases and 5 TH3 fillers searching at the present time, so nobody who would have a fair match in terms of offence and defence similar to your own clan profile, so it's not matching as it's rejecting most other 15 member clans as inappropriate pairings. I suggest dropping the th3s and trying again.

This was discussed recently (still on the first page in General in my settings) and generated some good discussion. I included my response in that thread as well:

https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...eered-accounts

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JFSoul

Haven't read all the exchanges, but based on the original post and the title of this thread, decided to weigh in.

I think it's unfortunate the term "engineer" crept into the vernacular. SuperCell has directly stated when it comes to "engineering" they are talking about "lopsided" bases, or bases with "manciured" upgrades to hide more powerful defenses or offensive capability.

Once you start throwing around the term engineer, folks go into the exact definition. Bias plays a very strong role, as many then pick out parts that fit their description, which usually supports their pro- / anti- / neutral stance on the topic.

This thread has a good discussion on what is engineering:

Sumosloth on Engineering
https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...ut-Engineering

---