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I'll just put it this way, the lowest th11 on the other team (sitting at number 14 opposite our lowest th9 has 19/25/20 level heroes max troops of valks, witch, hounds, bowlers, loons, healers, and rage. Specific enough for ya?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaticfringe
I believe we all have to look at this objectively. In our own minds, we don't want to believe that an individual new to a town hall would be considered engineered because they don't have those new defenses yet. Or, we don't want to believe that a .5 would be considered engineered. Or maybe someone wants to get their offense going sooner and doesn't do defense right away. But, it doesn't really matter what any of us think when it's the algorithm that determines what is engineered and what isn't.
What if the algorithm sees a town hall 10 who has max valks and hasn't dropped an inferno yet and determines that base to be engineered although in our minds we don't consider it engineered. Or what about a town hall 9 who has yet to drop an xbow but has lvl4 valks. In both those instances, we can all agree that someone is trying to gain an advantage by having a lesser war weight of a maxer base but the same offensive firepower. They may not be fully engineered as say a th11 with a 15GW and max bowlers and only a defensive structure or two but they may be considered "engineered" nonetheless.
My first three war searches under the new MM system yielded some completely unwinable wars. Those lineups included some .5s and a couple minimax and one or two people new to a town hall. Since dropping the .5s and the new town halls and anything resembling what can be seen as engineered, our last 3 war searches have yielded much more fair and competitive matchups. I'm not saying it's the answer to this whole mess but it is working for us.
Y'all are more than welcome to stop by my clan and check it out for yourself. We are Gorillas #PLRYU20U and I am Twisted #2LGYRU9C. Thanks.
If the clans are consistently getting uneven matches in their favor, they are unlikely to point it out here. Many of the complaints are likely from clans that get uneven matches both for and against them, which is still a problem. Most people want even matches, not matches where they destroy one clan then get destroyed the next war.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palladin02
Perhaps it has helped your clan, or perhaps the sample size is too small. Many clans without any engineering, even .5s, are reporting terrible matches. I don't want a matchmaker that gives an even match 3 of 4 and then a horrible mismatch 1 of 4. If that is the best we can get with a complicated set of rules trying to make all play styles happy, then I prefer we go the route of limiting viable play styles.Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpur5
Yes, it's a VERY SMALL SAMPLE SIZE, but it gives those in my clan hope. Right now, hope is all we have left from this game to hold on to!
We are hoping our mismatched opponents are lame attackers. Its our only hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpur5
With the rate at which we've been given mismatches so far, we reckon we are in for a 30v40 next. (Seeing as we've had 12v22 TH 11s in a 30v30)
Our side: no engineered bases
2 TH 11
4 TH 10
9 TH 9
There side:
3 TH 11
3 TH 10
4 TH 9.5
5 TH 9
You do the math. RIP our 16 win streak
Unless we add a check that says you cannot have more th11s than the other team, a match like this is pretty good given it is only off by one hall. Granted, that is a disadvantage, I'm not disagreeing, but perfect matches aren't likely. Are all three of their th11s maxed out?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamr
There have been a few honest engineered clans on here saying they still get advantages in war. These clans engineered because they figured if you can't beat them join them. (Fyi our clan NOT engineered ) problem is the ones still getting an advantage are not complaining, why should they. I for one want fair matching for all. If a clan has 5 th 11s with max war troops they should be paired with a clan with 5 th11s with max war troops. In our case if we're running a war with only th 10 and below we should not be paired with th11 high heros, and max war troops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palladin02
I for one have done more than enough wars to know if the clan I'm paired against has 4 th11 war attacks vs our th 10s (in a 10vs10 war) that were at a hugh disadvantage. No details necessary. It's not rocket science, if they have significantly more high th attacks (max war attacks) than you, your at a disadvantage. This is the Internet so anything said by anyone is suspect, but SC should be able to see a trend in the complaints and can even look at some of our match and see how messed up it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaticfringe
Latest war match ... 15v15 total cluster #$@#$.
Us: 1 th11/2 th10/10 th9s /2 (not engineered, but transitional) 8.5s
them:1 th11 + 1 engineered 11 sitting at 15 with warden but otherwise 8.5 other than max camps and spells, and , oh ... max tesla; 2 TH10s, 11 TH9.
the 11s sitting at position 1 were evenly matched max
we had a hero advantage in the th10 position 2 of 13
they had a hero advantage in th10 position 3 of 17
then this ... 10 straight TH9s where they had double digit hero weight advantage collectively about 170 or an average of 17 per th9
then our first 8.5 outweighed by 17 hero weight with a full 9
then our 15th position outweighed by the engineered 11.
their total hero weight advantage was 203 over 15. in no way shape or form , remotely even.
predictable outcome where we could not get over the top on a couple of the top bases and they had 2 extra th11 shots to clear our 10s.
and to rub it in , they claimed to be fairplay. lol.
I could care less how many TH11s (white-ish building), what i care about is the extra spell slot, cc (full spell not 1/2) and the GW. In my book its not really a th11 without those...Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
Exactly. We're a maxing clan. "Balance" means you don't drop a defensive tower you can't beat in war, because you'll be facing one. But as your offense progresses, so should your defense, because we win a lot of close wars where opposing TH9s can't clear our TH9s in the middle of the lineup. We run 15-20 sized wars with mix of THs from 11 to 7 at all stages of development. As long as the defensive weight is in the normal range for that TH, nobody would think these bases are engineered. Because they aren't.Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpur5
But this algorithm apparently does. Even taking out a group of our bases that are recently upgraded TH10s and might stupidly be graded as 9.5s, we found a 15v15 match with our heavy TH9s facing their TH9.5s, and yet a 4th war with a TH11(TH8 defense and max dragons) in the lower half of the lineup against our TH8s. Which is obviously a poor matchup because this "TH8" can do damage near the top of our lineup.
I suspect a lot of normal, balanced, generally max-oriented clans with bases simply in varying stages of development are getting thrown into this completely unmanaged "Wild West" bracket and finding bad matchups against bases with significant advantages in offense. Which is frustrating and not very much fun at all.
As a result, in the effort not to invalidate engineers, SC has effectively validated ONLY the Maxing and Engineered playstyles. Balanced, thoughtful progression of defensive upgrades with offensive upgrades (towards maxing) has effectively been invalidated and deemed the same as the Engineered style. You must either stay out of war until maxed, or engineer aggressively. That's nonsense.
Offense wins wars. Nobody complains about "offenseless" bases being unfair in war. Start your algorithm there. This one is broken.
Then you prefer SC put in no absolute checks like equal number of th11s and instead keep working on trying to weight everything properly and trying to avoid engineers taking advantage. Fair enough. I was totally with you a year ago, less with you a few months ago and less than that now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayer339
Last 2 wars for us have been the most fair wars we've possibly ever had. Equal ths on both sides though we were down a eagle with one of ours being a 10.5. This war same thing equal ths one engineered th11 mid pack with max troops and heroes and they have an extra eagle vs our 10.5. But this is by fair the most fair matches we've had and back to back. First 3 wars under new matchmaking were the worse matches we've ever had last 2 have been a nice change. Even before the changes our matches were never this fair. As long as they continue...
We have now had our 4th mismatch in a row. We are facing 2 maxed TH11s, and defenceless TH10 bases with heros at 30/30 (Impressive BTW)
We have 2x TH 10.5, couple of engineered bases, but heros only 10/10.
So the white flag is going up.
SC you have ruined the game. Lets see how hard your revenues fall!
Matchmaking is much much worse now. Our last three matchups have been horrible, and we are not engineers by any stretch (we have 2 accounts that fit). So... we sat all of them to do a search & we got our worst match ever in the last 3 years of wars.
We're a lvl11 clan just matched with a lvl15
us:
3 new th11 (not rushed, 1 with an EA)
4 mid to high th10
4 mid to low th10
19 th9 full range
them:
3 max th11
3 engineered th11 (2 with EA)
1 high th10
9 mid-engineered th10 (ranges)
10 th9
3 th8
1 th6
so basically they will crush our top 6 bases and at least 2 star all of our th10 and probably crush the vast majority of our th9...
while we we cannot touch their top 3 at all, might get 2 on some of the engineered... great. Thanks SC.
Serious this sucks on a level that I can not begin to express without the use of a string of bad language so foul women would weep, men would Nash their teeth, and children would run screaming.
Fix it. Please.
Every war since the update has been a severe mismatch. We are typically down 1-2 TH11's and 1-2 TH10's in a 20 v 20 war. We managed to win one with great strategy and some great attacks but the others we had no chance.
This game is supposed to be about FUN. It isn't much fun if you've lost the war before it began. We are currently in a war where again we are horribly mismatched and will lose in a rout. This has nothing to do with our ability, simply mis-matched.
Our clan is NOT engineered; quite the opposite. No rushed bases or engineered bases are currently in the clan warring. But we are matched up against more engineered bases now and it is hurting us. We have debated stopping warring altogether for a bit until Supercell can get their act together.
This update was a giant mess. Please restore order again SC!
☝��This. We're about to give up on wars.Quote:
Originally Posted by djfrank17
For Anoushka / Darian
Are there any metrics you could share that show MM trends since last tweak? Something like percentage of wars decided by tiebreaker damage percentage before and after, or percentage of wars won by difference of 5 or more stars. I think hard data could go a long way towards quieting complaints or fueling intelligent discussion.
So you upgraded your town hall to 11, with your heroes at the level of town hall 8 heroes, and it is Supercell's fault you are outmatched?Quote:
Originally Posted by damon669
Take your 10.5s out of the lineup until you can repair the rush damage.
I think the new match making has been greatly improved. We are running a 40v40 war. We have 2 Th 10's (low level, no infernos) and rest are Th9s, 8s, 7s and 6s. We have our opponent with 5 Th 11, 7 Th10 and plenty of 9's. So, yeah its an improvement from what it was before 😂
The truth is that the wars without being uneven, there are many engineers of those who before us were not appearing as rivals and it harms to the minor Town halls his 9 also
-Ceres12
In couple more hours, we will finished the uneven war. Against engi clan of 30 v 30.
Our clan top 1 to 4 : 1 th 10 and 3 th 9
The one and only th 10.
Their clan top 1 to 4 is 4 th 10.
They still have some th 11 and 10 (eng) down below the roster.
We do not have any th 11 nor eng bases in our clan. We are in the middle of 4 losing streak (not winning streak).
Since our clan is small and weak, we cannot choose our member. We have plenty rushed members. Our stats winning count less than 80 and losing count more than 100.
At the beginning of 12 hours of war, they managed to fully gained 90 stars (perfect score). As far as i remember, yes we encountered eng clan before. But we never got trampeled by a perfect score from them. This is a new MM, i am not fond by it.
Losing is fine by me, in fact i already get used to it. But when the opponent able to gained perfect score in 12 hours of war is something new for me. This just show of how much mismatch the MM can be. The algorithm is getting dumber and dumber from my perpective.
Add note: our previous war, we went againts normal clan and lost. We have 0 th 11, 1 th 10, the rest are 9 and below.
The opponent has 2 th 11, 0 th 10, the rest are 9 and below....
That what happenned after the change in algorithm. And after this war happenned i still thinkit is just sheer bad luck.
But after this war against engi clan, i now know it is not bad luck. It is bad decision created by the dev at SC. Shame on you SC for the direction you are heading in the MM.
Matchmaking seems worse that ever.
We have no engineered bases but several .5s.
Current war we have 2 th11s (one of which is a 10.5), they have 11 th11s; proper engineered clan.
We can probably win as defensively they're not that strong, may depend on if they can do well against our 1 full th11.
But if the new MM is meant to match clans using the same strategy it has failed miserably here.
Now' I understand that the war MM needed improvement, for fairer matches, and yes our clan did go down the engineering route, but at on about 40% of bases. Just to get a fairer match up. We won more than we lost. But since the update, our searches are taking forever, I know it said it would be a little longer, but we left it searching for nearly 20 hours with no match, we was doing a 15 person war, with 1 max th11, 2 max th10, 2 th10.5, 3 th9, and 1 th9.5, the rest (6 of ther) were burner accounts. At th3. Now we were expecting a longer wait, but nearly a whole day is a bit much. We left out our one cannon bases, so there heroes could update. Not impressed with that part of it.
Our wars have been really wacky.
Last war they had two max th11 vs our one.
We had 4 th10 they had 3
This war we have one max th11 vs their 0. They do have a th11 eng but still very low offense to be a real threat.
Very strange matchup. We are still winning at the same percentage however the wars seem to be all over the place. I assume there are such different levels to eng that SC has a hard time matching them up..
Current war is the most even war we've seen since the MM changes.
Only difference is their #2 is a max th11 and our #2 is a th11 with EA lvl1 and new defenses added recently.
this is promising to be an interesting match, and if we lose I'm sure we'll have learned something new from this matchup.
I hope they don't look at the final score as a measure of whether a war was even. Skilled clans can keep an uneven match close and in small wars sometimes the key uneven part of the war is a one star difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaTroll
So our clan’s reward for reaching a 8 win streak...
Us:
1. TH10
2. TH10
3. TH9
4. TH9
5. TH9
6. TH9
7. TH8
8. TH8
9. TH8
10. TH8
Them:
1. TH10
2. TH10
3. TH9
4. TH10
5. TH9
6. TH11
7. TH10
8. TH8
9. TH9
10. TH6
Thanks SC…
The thing I still struggle with trying to understand is the 0.5 base, does a base become a 0.5 once it upgrades it's TH and at what point does it move from being a 0.5 to a full base? There needs to be clear details about this if SCC are deeming a 0.5 to be an engineered base. For example, I advise members in my clan when they upgrade to focus on troop and non defences structures first, not to be engineered, but to allow them to grow with their base. If a new TH9 drops both X-Bows straight a way, they are likely to be matched against stronger opponents as they pretty much still have TH8 troops. If there were clear guidelines as to what was deemed to be an engineered base, and if a 0.5 is classified as such, then we need to know how to avoid this trap, or are we expected to exclude new TH9's from war until they have offence commensurate to their defence?
My clan experience on the MM since the update, we have had 4 war matchups since the update, and all I have noticed is they have been much harder, with far more TH11 and TH9's I think hardcore engineers are still benefitting from the MM, I've not seen any difference in the position in war of engineered bases, there are still TH11, 10 and 9, sat between the 20 - 30 in a 40:40 war.
It's not changed the way I setup wars just yet, I accept some we'll win and some we'll lose and that is still the case, we've won 2 out of the 3 we have finished since the update and stand a good chance of winning the current one, even though they have more TH11's than us.
Sure, I'll share my feedback. Our clan has done 2 wars since the MM update. I would consider us to have balanced bases, and we'd rather war against similar clans. One war was a close matchup - thumbs up. With our same lineup, our second war was a silly match against a clan with engineered bases throughout - big thumbs down.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Anoushka[Supercell
We're now opted out to see what happens, but our first impression of a so called MM update is negative. I wouldn't say I'm disappointed, because that would presume that I expected you to fix things. With your history, I had low expectations and, sadly, it appears that I was right.
The only reason I hang on to this game is because despite it's problems, I have yet to find another mobile game that is as immersive as this one. As soon as I do, I'm outta here.
The new mm requires maintaining off & def balance at a clan level. In my opinion, this offers a larger disadvantage to the average casual clan than to hardcore war clans, as the casual clan may not follow the inner workings of the algorithm.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoGen
The recent mm change was very impactful to X.5s. Now, it may be necessary to sit people for a month as they transition ths. My advice is to offset the completion of "significant" off weight upgrades with new def levels. I.e. at th10, drop 1 inferno (only 1!) after camp/spell factory completion. This will keep off/def weight more in balance.
Our matches went from 1 hour average to thirty minute average match so far. Why? Because we want a fair match and we make it easy on the MM. No sandbags, no .5s, no engineered of any type. We NEVER did those things and have always won around 80+% of our wars. If you tell yourself that you need those things to get "fairer match up", it is not true. It never was true. You are trying to fool the system so that you can cheat another clan out of a win and give them a miserable 48 hours. The MM does not need to change...you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky692006
Totally agree. One thing that does seem obvious from all these threads is that ♥♥♥ still does not get that the top TH level in a war (not necessarily the top base on the map) makes a HUGE difference. I get that in-lane matching for all bases is impossible. However, the top bases MUST be matched for it to be a fair match.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
this is the kind of feedback/info i have been looking for.. do i need to get 5s to drop bows? or ITs? where can i read up on how the MM changes impact .5s?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stealthmtn
Based on the current, very limited, sample of feedback here on the forum; people who have been running X.5 bases, then drop those accounts or have the accounts drop the defenses, SEEM to be getting better results without them.Quote:
Originally Posted by JDwestover
I think that there is not really enough data to make that assumption. We run ZERO engineered bases of any type. No X.5s, no engis, no sandbags, and we have been matched with clans that had pretty significantly engineered bases in all 5 wars now. We won all 5 wars, and we did usually have a hero advantage/per base, but in most cases they had TH10 accounts of some type where we only have TH9 top, and even those are not nearly maxed. So the idea that only X.5 will get you an engineered mismatch, and running pure maxer bases will not does not seem to hold true.
I do not know definitively yet myself. I'm sure there is good info in the clan war sub-forum on this. Definitely check there before using my advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by JDwestover
My clan would run a few 8.5s & a good amount of 9.5s. Prior to mm update, we matched very "fairly" in my opinion - we would be down 1 warden/1 ea/8+ infernos but have the hero advantage elsewhere. Since this update, we got matched with clans running 9.11s - now we had off & def disadvantage (I never understood how we could have less wardens, eagles, AND infernos and the mm deem this fair).
A number of clan members dropped enough def to balance off & def weight (still 1-2 9.5s & 8.5 left), and we've gotten better matches (close warden/eagle/inferno numbers between clans and hero levels too).
If it is close was the match really that uneven? If the uneven part comes down to a single star then the war is down to one mistake, one heroic attack, one fat-fingered queen ability, one well placed giant bomb. In short, what we want is a close war. The goal of a good MM is to produce this. Can you think of a better metric to measure whether the MM is making things better or worse?Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
SUPERCELL, please publish some metrics on clan wars. Percentage of wars decided by the tie-breaker before and after the modification, percentage of wars won by 5 or more stars etc. Hard data will go a long way towards informed discussion.
We have had four or five wars (+/-) since the new algorithm. I felt they were fairly balanced. We won some and lost some. For the most part, they were fairly balanced. Some of our players are slightly rushed (th9 offence with th8 defense)
However, the new war is different.
#Them US
1 Th11 Th11
2 Th11 TH10
3 TH10 TH10
4 TH9 TH10
5 TH9 TH10
6 TH9 TH9
7 TH9 TH9
8 TH9 TH9
I thought it was balanced at this point
9 TH11 TH8
10 TH11 TH8
11 TH11 TH8
12 TH11 TH8
13 TH11 TH7
14 TH11 TH8
15 TH11 TH7
Each th11 has a warden, king and queen.
I do not think this algorithm is working. This does not seem like a balanced war
I would argue yes, but it is subjective. In our last war (detailed here) our opponents had 2 TH11s and 3 TH10s to our 2 TH10s, outmatching us both offensively and defensively. We still won, because they were absurdly terrible. But this match was horribly not fun at all, and still quite a mismatch because in my opinion a fair match does not include offensive and defense a full TH level above on one side. Yes, wars like this are still winnable by the underdog. And getting something like this once in a while isn't such a big deal. But matches like this are more the norm than the outlier for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaTroll
If SC deems it a balanced match because they have metrics on the other clan's terribleness, well, so be it I guess. But I'm hoping this isn't what they want and I'm hoping our feedback will have some impact.
JD, while there is nothing stating exactly what the algorithm changed, several of us have noticed that putting down all defenses on a base and eliminating the .5s and anything that can be construed as engineered has resulted in much fairer matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by JDwestover
I am currently in a war in which neither clan has any engineers or .5s in the lineup and both clans have a fair shot at winning the war. The last 3 war searches ive done using an all maxer base lineup has resulted in an even playing field for both clans. We are currently running 4th11s, 4 th9s, 4 th8s, 2 th7s and a th6 all complete with the full compliment of defenses.
As stated in another post, it's a small sample size(3 wars) but it is what seems to be working for us. I'll be doing another war search tonight upon completion of the current war with the same type of lineup and I'll report back what the search yields.
Hope this helps. You can check me out at #PLRYU20U.
Actually, in our 5th war(I think), after update, we actually still have a chance to win despite being lower both on offense and defense (2 th11 their side with level 1 EA and level 3/4 infernos vs no th11) because they are not organized(hitting mirror and one below).
Of ♥♥♥ thinks we have had a fair match just because of a win or doesn't fix war MM soon, I'll just have to leave a 1 star rating and "Don't download" comment on Google Play.
There absolutely needs checks in place, IF equal number of the highest TH is the best they can do I can live with that and it would be an improvement over current state. I think they could do better by evaluating key components of the highest town hall, such as current lab level (troops & spell) the spell factory level (number of spells) etc...but maybe that's too difficult to program...Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
Yes, for example, I have been in 10v10 wars where I know there was 0 chance for the opponent to win because the best they were going to do was lose to us by 1 star. Other times, I have been in wars where there was a significant obvious mismatch, but the disadvantaged clan was much more skilled at attacking and base designing, making the score close. I don't want just a "close" war. I want a war that is determined as much as possible by the attacking and designing skills of the players. If we face a very unskilled clan, we should beat them by a lot. It shouldn't be close because of some advantage they have in offensive power, for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaTroll
Yeah, I think they need more than just this one check, but making both clans have the same number of th11s would be a good start (which means if you have 0 the other team also has 0).Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayer339
I just posted a good suggestion for adding more fairness, even in unfair war match up, in the idea section.
Link
Thanks for adding to the conversation and debate.
Win/loss by one star has no relevance on how good the match making was at all. When we win a war with only 3 th 10 vs their 2 th 11(large heros and max war troops ) and 1 th10 had nothing to do with how even the match was. We would have easily been beat if their 1 and 2 had not left their clan and then came back and hit our 8 to 10 ( was funny to watch)From what I understand your trying to say seeing how we won, it must of been a good match, which was not the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaTroll
War started with their #28 getting 3* on both our 13 & 14, so we figured we were in for a hammering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtone2001
We got off to a good start with our 11s getting 2* on their top 11 first go (4 & 12 were 3*) so freed our 2nd attacks for lower 3*.
war result 71 (79.67) v 71 (79.07) to us.
Even with SC's broken MM we scraped the Win.
War #7 (search was under 20 mins) 30v30
Yest again, matched against engineers.
us
1-14 Th11
15-26 TH10
27-30 TH9
them
1-21 TH11
22 TH10
23 TH11 (34/35/16) Max Hound, Loon, Barbs
24-25 TH10
26 TH11(20/20/13) Max Bowlers, Hound, Loon
27-30 TH10
so 9 extra TH11s all with GW and all with varying Max troops. (Bowlers, Witches, Hound, Loon, Healer, Valks, Hogs, Giants etc)
yet again, a non engineered clan hits heavily engineered.
Surely SC seriously can't be classing a new TH as engineered.
If they expect a new TH to drop every defence before they can get an even war they are bonkers.
at th11 that'd be cannon, archer tower, wiz tower, xbow & eagle.
cant remember all the extras at TH10.
Simply give the TH a base rating so it's above a Max of the one below. Does the same thing, just allows people to upgrade as they can.
should be the easiest fix, it's 1 variable, but has the biggest impact.
currently they allow a TH11 to have Max warden and troops, but by not placing defences, give it the same weight as a TH9.
The new MM is just awful. Its our 6th war I think and 5 times we got heavily engineered opponent clans. On top it always only takes 15-25 minutes to find a matchup. Why the hell dont let it search for a fair war 50,60,70 min.??!!!? No one cares to wait a little longer to avoid this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
Our current war is 15vs15:
we have 2 th11, 6 th10
they have 9 th11, 4 th10
Sry...are you serious?
20 min and your ****** algorithm thinks "yeahhh this looks good"?!
Yep.... Darian... please change the MMA back to before the update...
(Sarcasm - it's not working the way you intended).
Every war, it gets worse... for my clan its going in the opposite direction to equilibrium.
For our current war, I've managed to persuade some 10s to participate. (They've been sat out due to the horrible matches we get).
First war back and they've been smacked in the face.
Us: 2 x TH11, one max, one relatively new. 4 x 10s, 1 x 9.5, none max. 5 x th9, 2 th8's.
Them: 6 x TH11, 1 of which is an engi 11, 3 x 10s, 1 of which is an engi 10, 3 th9s, 2 th7's.
EAs are matched but they have 10 gw atts to our 4.
They have two more inferno base - Their no.1 is almost maxed th11 and all their next 4 11s are max th10 defence.
Even their 9s are strong defensively.. bottom 3 are junk.
So if they can attack, its only likely our no. 1 will not be tripled.
The only difference I can see is we have a mild hero advantage...
Super duper eh...
Summary of War #7 on offence.
Total troop levels
Us / Them
king - 1002 / 1138
queen - 1057 / 1171
warden - 245 / 427
bowlers - 63 / 78
witch - 70 / 75
hound - 94 / 109
loon - 191 / 202
healer - 130 / 140
They have 9 more TH11s than us, and as you can see high wardens.
Clearly engineered clan as only 9 out of 23 have EA. (23 out of 30 are TH11 !!!)
Most have low inferno or none also.
We have a clear defence advantage, but this is so overpowered by their attack strength.
Clear proof that offence strength is NOT considered high enough in algorithm.
How long have you been playing? You should know by now THEY ARE BONKERS!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtone2001
Another war spin for us, maxer style clans, 1 hour 10 mins search, 13 th11 and 2 th10 matched 15 th11, the smallest of which has level 2 eagle, 2 level 4 infernos and 30/34/11... the only one of theirs lacking a max warden, and bigger than all our bottom 4. Did someone declare big 10s = huge 11s when we weren't looking?
A mere 4.5 years, hence a near maxed account, a second which has just gone TH11. (Def was maxed at th10, except walls, heroes 30,35 when I went 11. Now at 31,39,10)Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpur5
join the club,Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomville
us
14 TH11s
12 TH10s
4 TH9s
Them
24 TH11s
6 TH10s
posted their hero & troop advantage on previous page
thats 6 from 7 wars with new algorithm we've had matches like this.
instead of Match Making Algorithm, think they've created a Mis Match Algorithm.
I think it's more likely a side effect of putting more significance on offence, as it happens most with big hero 10s that seem to match big 11s with some king/queen neglect. Seems like when the warden isn't carrying a great weight and only 1-2 troops really need one level of upgrade for war, the offence gap between them closes too far. Previously the (too) heavy stress on defence weight meant where a big 10 did end up opposite an 11 it was either eagleless, a baby or pretty rushed (but again not level 2 eagle). Whereas now they are none of those things and seen in multiple lanes. About the only fix I can see is significantly more offence weight on the warden, mostly placed on the warden levels 5-20 rather than the initial warden placement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtone2001
Thanks for the club welcome, but I was already a member there, this has happened 6/6 of our matches since the upgrade.
5th war into new war algo and im just flat disgusted, we have no th11s in this war, they have 2 maxed at top vs our max 2 10s. This is not better, this is not even worth warring any longer sc, my fave part of the game is ending my love affair cuz i feel like im being cheated.
Probaby not only the GW having not enough weight, but also any th11 level offensive units weighted too close to th10 unitsQuote:
Originally Posted by Tomville
Just finished up a 10v10 war against a Chinese clan. Our breakdown 2/4/4. Their breakdown 8/0/2. Us = 4 warden hits. Them = 16 warden hits. Our #6, brand new th10 with no infernos and 30/30 heroes. Their #6, th11 with max heroes (including warden) but no eagle or infernos. Our th11s both have eagles. They only had 1 eagle. Three of their th11s had max heroes, and the rest had mid-range heroes. All their th11s had maxed lavas and/or bowlers. Most had max golems and valks. I'm just about done putting time and money into this game. I don't mind losing, but I would at least prefer a fair matchup. Can't say that I have seen any improvement in war matchmaking.
This war wasn't a good match for anyone.
We have one th10 and one 9.5 (both high level heroes). They have one th10 (th10 defenses, but no infernos) and one super 9.5 (a th11 with lvl 7 loons, lvl 4 lava, low level heroes and warder, but th9 defenses) at their top. The rest of the roster is very similar for both clans, except for one lopsided th10 with level 4 dragons and no queen at our bottom.
So our th10 attacks were more than enough to easily 3 star all their defenses and their th11 attack will probably 3 star our top bases too, so it will be probably a draw.
I guess that's one of the consequences of the new MM considering the "total weight" of the bases. We have much more defense, they have much more attack, but the MM thought we should be paired.
We hope to solve this problem in the near future dropping new deffenses at our 9.5. I just hope that with this added defensive weight we don't get mached against stronger th11 attacks with max heroes, once our "total weight" will be increased.
Don’t run a max th9 if your th10’s are down, they’ll mirror a th10 with 25/25 heroes and level 3 infernos.
.5 is now considered full engineering.
Running a single 8.5 will give you: a few low weight th10s and th11s. It doesn’t matter if you only have one 8.5, he just put you vs engineering. It doesn’t matter if he has level 10/5 heroes, now your top 5 will get 3 starred by dragons lol.
I told my clan that things have changed, and .5’s need to build new defenses or sit. We had one match vs maxers, and two mismatches. The mismatches involved.5’s, and I’ve noticed that 9.5’s are much more dangerous because they tend to draw th11’s at the top.
The solution is simple. Make the weight of townhall = sum of all defences available to the th.
These light weight th11 + warder have been our biggest problem since the update. We are trying to learn how to avoid been matched against them. I hope adding defense weight on our .5 can fix it. We should be able to eliminate all lopsided bases from wars soon also. If these actions are not enough to avoid those th11 attacks, then we are doomed, lol.
The matchmaker has finally blessed us with a winnable war. We have two th11s and one th10 while our opponents have one th11 and 4 th10s.
Il nuovo match making non ha risolto il problema dei mezzi town all, ne dei clan engeenering! si ha l'impressione che la war sia già decisa al sorteggio...sto pensando di non disputare più guerre completamente sbilanciate, e partecipare solo a quelle che appaiono più equilibrate....nell'ultima war eravamo 10xth10 vs 1th10...impossibile combattere alla pari! Son un capo clan liv.13, SHARDANA FARM!
GRAZIE!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anoushka[Supercell]
Okay another war...... another example of supercell lying....
We have 4 th11'ss (2 max, 2 are 10.5), 4 mid-max th10, 11 Th9's, 2 th8's and 4 th7's...
Our opponent .....
14 th11's ...... YES 14! ( 8 are max offence and defence), 6 are th9 lvl defence and Max heroes m... 11 max Th9's...
You've lied to our clan for the last time supercell. This is officially our last war after 2 years. We're done. I won't post again. Sick of the lies.
I'm actually quite dissappointed with the MM balancing. Since the update we have come up against nothing but engineered clans. Damn there must be a solution to this.
The last 3 wars we have had have been terribly lopsided. I'm in a non engineered clan and we have been getting matched against heavily engineered clans. Usually we run with 1 TH11 (mid level), 2 TH10s, 4 or 5 TH9.5 (building to full TH10), and the rest TH9. Enemy clan will always have more TH11 bases than us, plus engineered 11s. Last match they had 2 max TH11s vs our 1. Then a max TH10, maxed 9.5s, 1 engineered TH11, and 2 or 3 true TH9s. Of course we got smacked. New matchup, to me, needs a lot of work.
I did the same thing - thought I had it figured out. Think again!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pono
I believe we're on our 6th or 7th matchup under the new algorithm. No .5s allowed - i.e. everyone in the clan maxes before going to the next TH, and I only include 10s with infernos and 9s with Xbows. Here's what we got:
Us:
1-4 TH10
5-10 TH9
11-14 TH8
15-18 TH7
19-20 TH4
The TH4 are legit new players who have friends in the clan - not defenseless engineers-in-training.
Them:
1 TH10.5 - (no eagle)
2-3 TH10
4 engineered 10.5 - (lvl 42 queen, lvl 13 warden, no infernos, no eagle)
5 TH9
6 engineered 9.5 - (maxed drags and lightning for TH10, no infernos)
7-8 TH9
9-12 TH8
13 engineered 9.5 - (almost no walls or defenses, obviously just started upgrading from defenseless since the update)
14 TH7
15 TH6
16-17 TH5
18-20 TH3 (brand new, obviously just added to lower the overall roster war weight)
I don't mind the gamesmanship of them adding TH3s to offset heavy at the top - it means the opponent has to be more efficient with their attacks and cleanup. But how did we get thrown in with the "engineered" pool when we don't have a single engineer or .5 in the lineup?
Clan ID#2L92J090 if anyone wants to stop by and verify for themselves (Supercell?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepard101
This is where were struggling as well. Last 5 wars I have run the same 10 bases and overtime were getting these .5, lopsided engineered bases that we never saw before. All 10 of our bases are 100% defense down bases all in various stages and only running a TH11-9 spread which should be a desirable range for most clans.
I say the old matchmaker was way better it was usually close except for the exceptions where the opposing clan just out played the matchmaker. I found it to be much less common then what I'm seeing now.
4 straight matchups against engineered clans. Us having absolutely none and them having no less than 4 engineered bases. And, we're not just talking about .5's. Heavy engineering.
How, on God's green Earth, did you guys manage to take a step backwards in the MM department? About to pull our clan from wars.
For what I see here in the forum and in our wars since the update, the new MM is killing th10 wars.
If your clan has a th10 on top, it's very likely that you will be matched against a th10.5 or a super 9.5. The algorithm seems unable to match similar top offensive bases, once apparently it has difficulty to establish the difference between th10 and th11 attacks.
It doesn't matter if one clan has one more th9 than the other. What matter is that th11 attack against the th10 attack. The bases that decide the war are those with the best offense and/or the best defense. If those are not similar, there is a mismatch.
The strongest offensive and defensive bases should receive special attention of the algorithm. The advantage of a single warder is too much against any th10 attack.
I registered an account to say this MM update has given us 2/3 draws in wars. daheck? Our clan record is 122-53-3. Our makeup for 10v10 is (1) max th9, 1 max th8, the rest are varying degrees of th9 bases. Each match up has featured multiple th11s on the opposing side and the last 2 wars had at least 1 inferno on the opposing players #1 base.
If anything, your algorithm skewed the deck in the opposite direction. How daheck do you guys not know what will happen when you make adjustments? This shift in the polar opposite direction.
I stopped paying to play after the th11 update, now I took the time to create an account and voice an opinion here. I would imagine the next step would be to move on from this game.
Also deeply disappointed. Last two wars against heavily engineered clans. We'll get two losses in a row (don't remember the last time it happened).
This was a step back SC... You should be clear about MM rules
You say in your own signature that you're a TH10.5. What did you expect? This is exactly the way it's supposed to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by VicThorious
Yeah...not sure what your complaint is. Taking a quick look at your clan- the updated MM is doing exactly as intended. Pairing engineer with engineer a little more consistently. Your clan description is asking for .5's, and you have many TH11s with no EA's (but maxed heroes/troops of course).Quote:
Originally Posted by VicThorious
ETA- I think SC was quite clear on the MM rules. Here on the Forums when Darian spoke about the upcoming changes and what they hoped to achieve, as well as in game under the 'News" tab. Fairly well documented.
Pretty sure they have been clear, i.e. if you try to game the MM system you will be matched with another clan that tried to game the MM system. Seems that they did a better job of it than you.Quote:
Originally Posted by VicThorious
You need to decide how it is you want to win wars, by gaming the MM system (if so, you need to get better at it!) or by being better at attacking with a balanced matchup (if so, you need to drop the defenses for your TH level)
I agree with the first part. If they're engineering (appears they are from other comments) then the match-up is fine. However, the problem I see mostly is the non-engineered clans still being matched up against engineered clans.Quote:
Originally Posted by NightsWatchMB
4th war search since the matchmaking updates. Instead of just letting every in, we tried excluding people doing any kind of .5 or offense heavy account. Turns out I missed one guy when I started the search. He's not a super advanced 9.5...CC upgraded and level 2 bowlers, and only 1 camp upgrade done at TH10, but I would have excluded him if I remembered. Anyway...
By and large, this war is a pretty fair matchup on paper.
-Top 3 for both sides are full TH11. Eagles, level 4+ infernos, level 20 wardens, high level other heroes, good troops. Tiny advantage us for having 2 guys with max heroes, but enemy heroes are 40+ on top 2.
-4-7 for both sides are full TH10. Some TH9 level heroes mixed in. No advantage to either side.
-Base 8 for them is a TH10. Not everything upgraded but has level 3 infernos, level 5 freeze, 20ish heroes, max valks and golems. Base 8 for us a TH9. Advantage them.
-Base 9-10 for them are 9.5. Upgraded air defenses. 25-ish heroes with max valks and few other goodies for th10. Base 9-10 for us are a 9.5 (the one I mentioned at the start) and a close to max TH9 with 25-ish heroes. Advantage them.
-11-13 for us are TH9 that are rushed a bit. Close to max on defense, teenage heroes, and near maxed out lab. Their 11 has 29/30 heroes as a TH9, 12 is like our slight rushed 12. 13 is an 8.5 with no xbows, but he did build and upgrade 4th air defense. Level 2 hounds and level 6 loons and 220 camp space. Slight advantage them for having a level 30 queen.
-14 for us is rushed TH9. Near max defensively but only dragons and loons for war troops. 15 is a TH8. For them, 14 is a TH8 and 15 is a basically a brand new TH9. So we have the advantage on 14-15.
All in all, not the worst match. Base 8 is basically the screwy part. If we matched them 14v14 minus each side's 8, I'd call it a perfect match. It's an advantage that will allow them to clean TH9 a lot easier and have an easier time getting 2 on TH10. We at least have a chance which is more than I can say about our last 3.
After a few wars, I must say this new mm is terrible. We are not engineered, but do have several .5s . We have been matched with clans that engineer to the extreme. Defenseless th11s with max troops throughout the roster, etc. Last few wars have resulted in 3 perfect wars against us, 1 win, 2 losses by 1 star and a perfect war tie. I must say in our case we definately preferred the old system, it seemed much more balanced and we won\lost by skill rather than a lopsided match.
I haven't updated my signature for a long time but I'm close to max def except for the EA which I'll do at the end. I'm OK to be matched against a high level th11. Actually our clan always has EA deficit which is overcome by our higher level heroes. I'm not OK when the opponent has more EAs and defenceless bases that crush our higher level bases with spam attacks. Heavily engineered clans should be the ones to be penalizedQuote:
Originally Posted by NightsWatchMB
You are engineered. I just took a gander at your clan and literally the top 7 bases (I didn't bother clicking through any further, cause I get the point) are engineered to some extent. .5 is still engineering even if you want to call it something else. As soon as I read "perfect war," I knew engineering was involved because those don't happen against non-engineered clans (or at least very rarely).Quote:
Originally Posted by Creatine
In this case, the MM is working as it should. Matching engineered clans against engineered clans.
If this is a trend for you, and it is a trend for your opponents to get clans like you, then why? What is it about the makeup of each that causes the MM to decide you are a fit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomville
I think this is the cause of many maxer clans' problems. The MMA is counting their offense (all troops upgraded at every TH level = high weight). It is counting the engineered offense (single path upgraded, no upgrades for other troops = lower weight). The system only cares about the total number at the bottom of the column.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomville
Quote:
Originally Posted by xc3ss1v30n3
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHANDRIANO
This is the trend that is starting to become apparent. If a maxer clan of 5 x TH11 (let's say for sake of argument 100k offense average), 10 x TH10 (80k offense average) and 15 x TH9 (65k offense average) has a total offense rating of 2275. The system finds them a clan with similar offense weight, but only single path upgraded on all but the two anchor bases. They might look like: 2 x TH11 maxed (110k offense weight each) 20 x TH11 engineered (75k offense weight average) and 8 x TH10 (65k offense weight average). The system sees the maxer clan as having a narrow advantage, but close enough to match them. In reality...Quote:
Originally Posted by Swoness
Maxer = 5 x TH11, 10 x TH10, 15 x TH9
Engineer = 2 TH11 maxed + 20 x TH11 engineered, 8 x TH10 engineered
The system sees it as an acceptable match, but clearly it is a huge mismatch. The problem is that it is counting ALL of the offense for the maxer, even though not all troops will be used in war. For the single path engineer, they can still attack with a max TH11 LALOON, or Miner, or whatever path they have chosen. However, they are not paying offensive weight for troops that will not be used in the attack.
The problem is that currently, a TH11, fully capable of conducting an attack with max TH11 troops and heroes, can minimize their weight in other areas and appear to the MMA to be similar in offensive weight to a TH10 or lower. The solution is that the offensive weight needs to be calculated based upon levels. This is very similar to the TH minimum weight concept that has been offered for defense. Every new TH11 would have a minimum offensive weight equal to the maximum available weight of a TH10. Then they would add weight based upon upgrades. For example, once all offensive buildings are upgraded (lab + spell factories) add 3k. Once the warden is built, add another 3k. Once the lab upgrades enough troops and spells to conduct a TH11 attack add another 3k. Additionally, add weight for hero levels. The total of these components would be adjusted to equal the total offensive weight between TH10 and max TH11.
This guy gets it. Supercell, please hire him. Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by xc3ss1v30n3
I guess .5s are now seen as engineers, though I was once a valid upgrade path. It is a big difference from max offense\low defense bases we have been facing last few wars. I wish SC would be more transparent regarding what they prioritize in mm. It seems they want you to drop new defenses when reaching a new townhall rather than focus on offense. Ill get the clan, including myself to build new defenses.
It's a semantics thing as far as the community is concerned, but for SC it's not. .5 was the original engineer. It wasn't until the defenseless bases or bases such as 8.11, 9.11, etc started showing up that people started labeling .5 as only "weight-minded" upgrading or something similar. But, in the eyes of SC, it's still engineered no matter how it's sugar-coated because, as you stated, SC wants the new defenses on the ground and upgrading along side of offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Creatine
Of course, if the new MM system is what they say and offense is being weighed as much or (hopefully) more than defense, then .5's are no longer engineered.
To be honest, .5's were seen as engineered after the last MM update. It hit them pretty hard. I agree there is a difference between a .5 and a defenseless TH11- but not all share that same opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Creatine
.5 is a valid upgrade path, but it was evident after the last MM tweak that after you reached a certain threshold with your offense- it was no longer simply about valid or smart progression. In other words, if you are a TH10 and have most/all of your offensive troops maxed, your heroes at 40/40...and have yet to upgrade a single defense or even drop an inferno tower- well yeah you are not simply upgrading with offense in mind. You are upgrading with MM in mind. SC seemed to follow that logic, and hit the heavy .5 clans hard. Real hard. If you had weak heroes and were going that same .5 route (no defense upgrades or the infernoes/EA's), well you probably didn't notice the change so much.
Unfortunately, what I gather so far is engineers are matching engineers and facing uneven matches. Maxers are also still facing engineers with an uneven match, although possibly less often than before. To me, this isn't good enough. If engineers are going to randomly get bad matches, then there is no point to engineer and SC should just implement a fix that totally nerfs engineering and get on with it, especially since maxers are still matching engineers.Quote:
Originally Posted by xc3ss1v30n3
They have always been engineers. That is the purpose of making a .5. However, there are different types of engineering and it is a problem if the matchmaker is treating them all the same (I don't know that it is).Quote:
Originally Posted by Creatine
You left out a third one. Maxer clans facing bigger maxer clans. In other words- a maxer clan with say a 6/12/9s spread pairing with a maxer clan of 12/8/9s.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
So SC has hit the trifecta.
I totally agree. As a clan of maxers facing engineers for the last 4 wars, what they're doing definitely isn't good enough. Neither are unbalanced engineer vs engineer matches. To this day, I feel like only way SC can truly "fix" MM is to do something as you suggested. Either make certain defenses and/or levels of defenses mandatory before advancing townhalls or (and I personally like this idea) institute a minimum overall base weight for a base to be eligible for war.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
our war line up is #1 new th 10 ,#2-#6 th9 ,#7-#15 th8/7...our #1 hav heroes30/33 ,#2 30/30 rest have 25/25 to 10/10. and our enemy clan #1 th 11(th9 defence/level 6 dragon and 15/20heroes)..#2 th9,#3 th10( dr@gon 5,bowler level 2),#4 th9 ,#5 th10 (dragon 5)...#6-#15 th8/7..... (is this a fair war ? )......this is a punishment of having high lvl of heroes as th9...or supercell want us to rush th 10/11 with low heroes like engineer clan.......,,,also in current war we have same war line up and enemy clan have #6 a th11 with lava max level,loon 7, warden level 15 and bk/queen ...10/15..... is this a fair war????
But WHY are these matches happening? I agree that they are, but I honestly am not sure I understand why. The MMA obviously sees these two clans as equal, but we do not. What is the MMA looking at differently than we are.Quote:
Originally Posted by cnaf
One theory that I am trying to compile evidence to support/disprove is that (in response to player demand for more weight for warden???) they have greatly increased the weight of all heroes. The warden still seems to be out of whack. However, in some cases, when I look at the details it seems that the clan with the obvious offense AND defense advantage, has a slight hero disadvantage. It appears, in the limited number of cases that I have seen, that there is a trend of BK/AQ weight seems to be offsetting higher troops and higher defenses. In these cases it does not appear to be justified. That is, in practice, it would not actually balance the scale that having a few extra BK levels on average would make up for facing higher level troops and next TH level defenses. I am nowhere near enough evidence to say this is the likely culprit, but it does need more study.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
I've become a 10.5 because I am in a war clan and we felt it was advantageous to have more on offense than defense. Most of the core of my clan has done the same to keep up with enemy clans who were following the same route. So .5 bases have become common practice for war clans, particularly larger war clans. Since last month we got a couple of clearly engineered bases (second accounts) which we let them stay after some discussion, and we left until now since they weren't influencing matchups (we were also getting more engineered bases) and outcomes. With the new matchmaking system, we faced 2 heavily engineered clans and we lost two in a row (actually we gave up on this last war, which was the first time it happened). Morale is low, the more dedicated ones have put their red shields, we'll go down from 30vs30 (took a long time for our clan to reach this goal) to 25vs.25 or 20vs.20. Actually the .5s I refer to are more .6 or .7 ths, but we are completely clueless of what to do (shall we be out of wars until we max our defs?). I have comments that even "normal" clans (I haven't seen one for ages in war) are also facing unfair matchups. I think SC should be transparent with the MM algorithm as everyone would understand unfair matchups and proactively find ways to improve. From the comments here, I have over 10 negative comments per positive comment. MM really got worse
SuperCell, I am here with our results. We lost by 1 and we had the tie breaker %. One more good raid and we had it. I must say that your MM algorithm does seem to have some excessive equivalencing methods between hero levels and # TH11s. That being said, our TH10s are forced every war to raid the top TH11s to try for 2. TH10s cannot help any other way except 3 star TH9s or weak TH10s. My prediction has been that you will buff TH10 troops once the TH11 defenses are mostly upgraded to the new max levels. Or give TH10s a lvl5/10 GW. Is this your plan?Quote:
Originally Posted by mdimascio
Thanks,
Den
Looks like you are playing clans suited to your play style so the MM is working as intended.Quote:
Originally Posted by VicThorious
Then you are engineered and getting matched against other engineered clansQuote:
Originally Posted by Creatine
edit - noticed in a later post that you accepted that point although .5 was only a valid upgrade path to gain an unfair advantage with the war MM.
That's so true. In any real sport there are clear rules to be followed. If you are a boxer or a MMA fighter, you know that your weight is what defines your category. If you are at a soccer team, your league will define your adversary skill level.Quote:
Originally Posted by VicThorious
Yes, boxers can "engineer" losing weight before a fight, but the rules are clear and everybody know what to do. That's why it's a fair fight, even if each fighter have different speed or strength.
But on clan wars we don't know the rules. Yes, if we did know, we would "engineer". But with transparency comes fairness. We need to know these rules, just like that boxer knows his.
Looks like you haven't read the whole postQuote:
Originally Posted by Rst
This is a great way of looking at it. The rise of hyper-engineered defenseless bases has made 0.5 seem normal, when 0.5s exist to create mismatches within a given TH level.Quote:
Originally Posted by xc3ss1v30n3
That said, if placing all new D towers is SC's goal for non-engineered "normal" bases, SC needs to (1) be 100% clear that this is the case and (2) adjust weighting of tower placements such that new towers are much lighter, until significantly upgraded. Currently a lot of weight seems to be applied to placing a tower vs upgrading a tower. I see plenty of 0.5s with fully upgraded (but no new) defenses that only weigh 1-2k above a new TH. New towers are almost useless. yet placing them adds weight which currently matches you uphill against someone with stronger, upgraded defenses. I'd hate to see a freshly minted TH9 drop all new new towers and suddenly finding themselves weighing 63k while being weeks away from having offense to fight equally.
Im afraid your sig gives it away.Quote:
Originally Posted by VicThorious
You are 10.5 with max heroes and none of your th11's have eagles and the 10's I looked at had no infernos.
Why are you surprised that you being matched with other engineers, it is the way SC intended the MM to work.
Edit - my post was responding to your post 874 regarding your disappointment with the MM if you look at what I quouted ( i.e. The whole post) not any later posts.