Been in 2 wars since update.
Both engineered. My clan not engineered. They werent very engineered but still easily crushed out bottom players due to it.
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Been in 2 wars since update.
Both engineered. My clan not engineered. They werent very engineered but still easily crushed out bottom players due to it.
Our first war with the new matchmaking was the most unfair in a long time. 10 vs 10. Their two th11s and one th10 were much stronger defensively and offensively than our top 3 bases ( 2 th11s and 1 th10). We have one max th11, they have two max th11s, their th10 has level 3 infernos our th10 does not infernos. The bottom 7 bases were all 3 starred by both teams even though again their 9 and 10 was stronger than ours. In progress, but looks like a 26 to 25, loss.
The new matchmaking algorithm is by far the worse its been. Going off "total weight" is not going to work and it encourages people to rush their bases to receive max troops. SuperCell, please don't ruin the war scene, as it is the ONLY reason many clans exist. Every war we've faced since this change has been terrible and totally unbalanced.
Example of Last War:
Our Clan:
1 Th10.5
1 Th9.5 (all TH9 defense & Offense)
4 Th9s
1 Th8
1 Th7
2 Th4
Opponent Clan:
1 Th10
1 Th10.5
3 Th9.5 (max TH10 defenses and Offense)
1 Th8 (no walls)
1 Th6
1 Th7
2 Th4
My clan and many other friends clans are going through the same issues. Please go back to matching us based of individual weights and not overall weights. You are encouraging people to rush their low level bases just to receive MAX troops. Don't allow people to exploit your game and kill clan wars. GAME DEVS, please listen to us and Thankyou!!
The last 2 match ups have been quiet easy compared before, I am not sure what it is reading, but it seems the same TH11's are against the same amount of TH11's BUT the strength of the TH's are not the same
We have 2 max TH11 and a fresh TH11 with no EA, and our match up has a TH11 with max hero's but not max infernos another TH11 with 40/40 heros and then a max TH10
They have 5-6 TH10's that are decent (some engineered) and we have 5-6 engineered/.5's.
The match up looks decent but I could see them complaining on their end, before the changes we hit 2 max TH11's every war
Its been great for us the last 2, no complaints on my end, but I am noticing it just looks like the MM is making a TH11 match a TH11 at the top but not taking anything else into consideration....
Could just be a coincidence, but it has benefited us the last two weeks
Guys and gals,
Supercell knows what it was doing. This was no mistake. The consensus on this forum is very clear: match making was, is, and continues to be an epic fail.
The only way anything will ever change is you stop gemming and stop buying gems.
This was a calculated move by supercell. I gaurantee you that they just dont put something out just to see how it works.
In the meantime, it would be interesting if they had an increase in revenue from this update.
Remember, what sentiment that maybe going on in this forum may not represent the masses who play this game.
If more people sre spending money to "catch up", then supercell wont be changing anything for awhile.
If the game has become horrible, I suggest you stop playing and save your money and time. These forums are nice to discuss issues, but when a company is making over 1 million a day with very few employees (forbes 2015), the only thing that this company will understand is the dollar sign.
In essence, I am speculating that supercell measures success by revenue flow and not forum posts.
That's tough though, yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by nerfedname
A TH3 isn't going to attack much of anything, nor can it defend against much of anything. This would be significantly different than, say, a mini-max or defenseless base. In any case, it would seem strange to completely ignore a TH3 in the lineup. It counts, as that base isn't going to defend, nor attack, much of anything of substance
We don't mind a sprinkle of TH3s to gain a potential edge anywhere not at the top of a war map, but some of the match-ups posted on these forums showing clans adding TH3s to an ~extreme, that's where the eyebrows start getting raised.
I will say, however, in our clan's wars, we have close to zero issue with enemy clans adding TH3s to the bottom of their war map, especially nowadays. They aren't anything to worry about.
What ticks us off at present (& I mean that literally) is these clans that engineer their ~entire roster and drop in a bunch of mini-max and/or defenseless bases to bully attack up to and including the top of the war map. A TH+1 (or even a TH+2 at times) just muscling its way through a base isn't talent/skill, it's pathetic and a joke & it's the exact same, talent-less spam of either (1) laloon, (2) mass drags, or (3) miners. Each and every time we have to watch one of these clans actually attack a TH at the same level, it is, literally, ~hysterical watching just how awful the attack is (often it's some horrid version of EQ GoVa or something)
And the idea that, "Oh, they should be able to have fun too!" is friggin outrageous. The game shouldn't cater to the "lesser" player.
Weight tax the hell out of these mini-max/defenseless bases. These engineers will adjust, they won't just go away
Reading all of these posts makes one thing very clear: There needs to be more clarity regarding the changes that were made. Without knowledge of the intentions of the MM its impossible to know if it is "working" or not. For our clans we have a few players (including myself) who have engineered ourselves in order to have reasonable match-ups the past year. This update has done nothing to quell our concerns with the MM and we will continue to remain engineered. If we knew the matching system would be fair no one in our clans would bother engineering, but alas here we are over 16 months still engineering in order to get even semi-reasonable matchups.
What is the solution? idk thats beyond me, but I know SC pays their employees well to figure that out, it is their job in fact. And so far it seems they are either (a) out of touch with the dire straits of the current war MM or (b) they don't give a ****... I would like to assume it is the former, and they just aren't comprehending the issue or are not understanding how much desire there is in the community for fair matchups. But the more I see the more it seems option b is the right option. I would like to hope there is more to this game then money, but SC is a massively successful business which is focused on the bottom-line. I guess they think really hitting back against "engineers" will hurt them financially in some way. There is really no other explanation for this ♥♥♥♥ update and broken war MM.
I am usually an SC defender but I am finding it impossible to do so on this issue any longer. And NO I will not say I am going to "quit" because lets be real most of us on here are addicts and enjoy the break from life we get while clashing. That's partly what makes this so disappointing, I see people I have developed friendships with over many years struggle to stay in the game due to the current war MM, if you take the fun out of war you really zap COC of its core entertainment.
All of this is to say, YES I am an 'engineer". Not by choice, but because of a broken system that is forcing traditionalists to take on whatever means necessary to have a reasonable chance at a fair fight in wars. And that is extremely sad, and thoroughly disappointing.
first spin after the changes in a 30v30 where we had 17 th11 and 13 th 10 and the enemy had 27 th11 and 3 th10. Hero levels us 2521 combined,enemy 2792 and max troops on all but 2 bases,which were not rushed at all,just engineered.
I added up the defensive weights too 2,830k vs 2738k so we had the edge in totals ( their #30 was a defenceless 11 so the weights were actually less skewed) but 281 extra hero levels and 20 more th11 attacks is far from a balanced or fair war
MM takes a lot time first war 2 hour.. second war 1.5 hr.. third war its already 3.5 hours still no match 😥
These threads with multiple topics (in this case MM & Cannon Cart) make it almost impossible to have a coherent discussion about the lesser posted topic (Cannon Cart).
Excellent pointQuote:
Originally Posted by anondson
Finally, some one who gets it. I am in the exact same boat. However, I do think supercell is making money off this update. And I am guessing no change soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boschman93
Another example, TH10. Its been dead for almost a year. Data from the CWL has shown it is easier for a th11 to triple a th11, than a th10 to triple a th10. And these are the best players in the world.
The conclusion, push 10 to 11. Its a money maker.
Cash is king.
Current war: Both teams have 1 TH 11, 1 TH 10, 5 9's, 2 8's and a 7.
We have 295 levels of Heros to their 280. They have twice the level of Warden.
We have 13 X-bows/44 levels. 4 Infernos/12 levels and 1/1 for the Eagle.
They have 17/61 X-bows, 4/14 Infernos and 1/2 on the Eagle.
Pretty serious defensive advantage for them.
It is what it is I suppose.
I don't hate on you at all for that. You are right, it is sad and disappointing to have to rely on that for a good matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boschman93
I had much higher hopes for this matchmaking rework than our what we've gotten in our first 2 wars. I'd like to know what they did too. I'd kill to see a developer explain how just about any matchup described in this thread are considered "even" by their MM algorithm.
P.S. - We had an awesome war against Little Seekers once. You got some good guys in your clan family.
I think your points are excellent. I would argue that supercell allows this because unfortunately, cash is king.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaticfringe
If people got smart, they would revolt with their pocket book.
War #3
us
1-7 th11 with EA
8 th11 no EA
9-19 th10 infernos
20-22 th10 no infernos (recent th upgrade)
23-25 th9
them
1-7 th11 with EA
8 th11 no EA
9-20 th10 infernos
21-24 th9
25 th9 (th8 defence, guessing recent upgrade)
Slight defence advantage to us, but pretty even war overall.
So far, 2 really bad match ups against heavily engineered clans.
Now the first evenish match up.
ill keep updating on matchmaking.
Second war after the update dropped:
Our roaster:
9 TH11s
3 TH10.5s
3 TH10s
5 TH 9.5s
3 TH9.75
2 TH9s
Their roaster:
13 TH11Ss
1 TH10.5
2 TH 10s
3 TH 9.5s
5 TH 9s
1 TH 8
So far 2 bad match ups...
Agreed. Well said. I'm done gemming too as that is the only feedback they pay attention to.Quote:
Originally Posted by BZ1
Guessing? I'm guessing you aren't part of a major corporation or there wouldn't be any doubt in your mind. What else would they measure success with? Cost your clients the most you can with the minimal people leaving the game. How could their goal be anything other than this?Quote:
Originally Posted by BZ1
now we got totally bad matching . bad work. we r loving war but new WAR MM make us separate from the game :(
I've been saying that for quite some time. In fact, I believe it was my idea :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaticfringe
Agreed :thumbsup:
Who knows? Good for you perhaps, but maybe bad for supercell. It appears engineering is alive and well. I thought this update was really going to nerf engineering.Quote:
Originally Posted by nerfedname
Our most recent 20v20 went like this: We had 6 th10s, 5 th9s, 6 th8s, 2 th7s and one th6. They had 4 th11s, 3 th10s, 6 th9s, 2 th8s, 3 th7s and 2 th6s. Nothing was engineered but they did have two rushed bases - one of their th10 and another of the th9.
I hope this isn't what the update was intended to do.
SC really needs to explain more about how they are matching. We had crazy with streaks when it was all maxed bases (because we had no rushers). Then they start changing things. It has been ok....win a few, lose a few.
The last 2 matchups since the update are crazy favoring engineering clans. I don't think SC is distinguishing between an entire clan that engineers vs a clan that might have 1 or 2 people that engineered their second account.
Our current matchup
9 TH11s - (1 is almost max Def, 2 of which are engineered...but have TH9 max defense with mid heros...they only did it to get the GW)
The rest are TH (8-10) people that are maxing at each TH level and then moving up. Most are mid way through their TH level.
The other clan
22 TH11s - (6 are max except for walls, the rest all max offense and heros, but def between th5-th8)
2 TH10 (engineered....th 8 def)
1 TH3
So in our war we have 2 engineered bases.....they have 24 engineered bases!!!!!
engineer vs engineer, it seems that the MM worked fine here. maybe you should engineer better next timeQuote:
Originally Posted by pb913
The complete lack of information is indeed frustrating. No one is asking Supercell to divulge "secret sauce" or give mondo engineered clans too much information so they can easily adapt and evade the MM.
The more casual clans are the real victim of this change, and even more so the players who started on a path of extreme war weight management when it was all the rage and now clans are forced into sitting players who otherwise put a lot of time and/or real cash into their now undesirable account.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb913
We had one war after the changes so far. It wasn't a bad setup at all. Our opponent's had 3 low TH10s with lvl 5 valks but to me this looked more rushed than engineered. Was still too much for our TH8's and low TH9's to take care of. We won though so I'm not complaining.
Having 2 bases does not make you an engineering clan. Having 24 bases does. So are we supposed tell those people they can never war until they are maxed up. Considering war is a major way to get resources (gold and elixer)....that basically telling people to close their accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by strandwolfza
And it's not like they have IFs or EA's and L5 defenses or even max offense. They only have a L10 GW...nothing else is higher than TH9.
Frankly they should simply look at the top 10 bases only and match based on that. If they do that we wouldn't have even matched this clan.
Pretty sure I already replied, don't know which page it's on but here's an update:
The matchup was
1: 11 - 11 <- me
2: 11 - 11
3: 11 - 11
4: 10 - 11
5: 10 - 11
6: 10 - 11
7: 10 - 11
8: 10 - 11
9: 10 - 10
10: 10 - 11
11: 10 - 11
12: 10 - 11
13: 10 - 10
14: 10 - 10
15: 9 - 10
16: 9 - 11
17: 9 - 10
18: 9 - 10
19: 9 - 9
20: 9 - 8
The score is 43 - 50 because several of our lower guys couldn't do much against extra defenses and level 4+ infernos. I got 3 stars against their 2 but goofed on their 1 with a 1 star, while they were able to hit upwards with drags
So far the matchmaking only works half way, most of their 11s didn't had th11 level troops and had low heroes
2 engineered bases is more than enough to give your clan a big advantage over a clan who truly has no engineered bases (a maxer clan, for example)Quote:
Originally Posted by pb913
I bet you and your 2 engineered bases always loved to be matched against them, no?
good job, supercell:thumbsup:
Again, I agree.
The "You got out engineered, suck it up buttercup!" comments are simply not helpful and while it might make some players feel better about their righteous war base choices, the real world is more complex for most clans. What is the grand proposal here for a mixed clan? Split into two with a max and engineer roster? Toss otherwise committed players to the void? Shame them with a permanent bench until they "Do It Right", and by who's definition. It is *not* easy finding a US based adult player who uses both attacks on day 1.
Replacing lost clan members over this change is a significant pain point for many.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb913
I just want a clear description of the point when a new TH crosses the threshold of "new" to ".5 engineer" and I'll be happier. My clan is a balanced/maxer clan that has used the .5 system to transition to new TH levels. Sure, we may have waited too long to drop those xbows, but we'll gladly adjust now with a bit of direction. Much better for us to know who to sit as opposed to getting 3 defenseless TH11s because of a missing inferno tower.
Two wars since MM "fix" and both are against heavily engineered clans. We never had this issue before the change (at least not often). Hope SC keeps tweaking the algorithm or just goes back to the original one. Or heck, even just simply matches TH for TH. Not impressed with the change so far :/
OK, this one was hopeless for us. :)
http://i.imgur.com/ZUqgjHK.png
We run few th9,5, th10,5 and 3 defensless accounts so it's kinda engineering, but the opponent was just crazy. 2vs6 eagles, 11vs24 wardens, 2286vs2961 heroes total.
oh look, an engineer complaining because his engineering backfired and he got out-engineered!:facepalm:Quote:
Originally Posted by padodalu
The match he posted shows a huge advantage for engineering th11s. How is that a good thing? I want SC to end this huge engineering advantage. If they can't do it with a complicated system trying to let everyone upgrade any way they want but still have even matches then it is time to drop the hammer and introduce a minimum defensive weight per hall.Quote:
Originally Posted by strandwolfza
oh so now that your advantage is gone you want to "adjust"? what about all those clan that you beat because of your advantage?:thumbsdown:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dausano
As long as a few engineers are unhappy, wolf becomes happy. In a way you have to admire his single minded focus.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
Has battle day started? What are the lane by lane defensive weights for both clans?Quote:
Originally Posted by pb913
Yes. What about them? We've won and lost wars. Not a big deal. All about finding a sweet spot within the system.Quote:
Originally Posted by strandwolfza
It doesn't make sense to me to ignore the very happy engineers on the other side (or all of the non-engineered clans also matching against engineers). I know SC can still make adjustments, but I don't see a solid foundation here. I think it is time to scrap it and go with some simple easy to understand minimums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chang405
Funny how the most vocal person on the war MM changes is someone who specifically mentioned they do not war.
Today's 10 v 10 match has my TH11 sitting alone at the top (with some defenses like AT lvl 12 & cannons lvl 13, nothing else above a max TH10 level), going against a max TH11...lvl 15 AT & cannons, etc. I didn't even have an eagle yet, but added it after seeing this matchup.
Since it's a total clan match, you'd expect us to have some advantage down the roster. We don't. Our bottom 4 TH8's are vs 3 TH9's & 1 TH8. Our #2 (TH10) is equivalent to theirs, but our #3 has one lvl 2 inferno, versus their two lvl 3 infernos. They have the advantage pretty much down the line.
This is definitely worse than before the recent changes. We'll give it our best, but I don't think the new system is giving even matches. SC, at least try to make it closer to even at the top, please?
I always try to focus on the bright side of things:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chang405
:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:
but why I currently don't war? those engineers forced me and my clan to quit wars, and some members even quit the game because of this. engineers destroyed usQuote:
Originally Posted by Boschman93
Has it dawned on you that others instead of quitting clan wars, felt the same as you but instead reacted to engineering by also doing it themselves in order to even the playing field?Quote:
Originally Posted by strandwolfza
"I'm taking my ball and going home... But I'll keep calling you from there."Quote:
Originally Posted by strandwolfza
I agree. I was against minimum weights before but I have come around and share your sentiments. Engineering or any playstyle can have an advantage but the current engineering advantages have grown too large and out of control.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
has it dawned on them that by doing so, they only made the engineering problem worse? that by that, they only became part of the problem?Quote:
Originally Posted by Boschman93
me and my clan kept our integrity until the end and we paid the price for that
I am heading down this direction myself, or, at a minimum, a serious weight tax for the bases that have some monster offense with a corresponding lacking defense. Just put an end to it. At current, it still appears to be a monster jokeQuote:
Originally Posted by 2222
That's not the right answer and you likely know itQuote:
Originally Posted by Boschman93
That shining halo around your head is just too bright for me. I know there is an ignore button around here somewhere....
Quote:
Originally Posted by strandwolfza
You made your decision others made their decision. For most of us who love this game it is not a real option to just quit wars.Quote:
Originally Posted by strandwolfza
In the end whose fault is it? Those who created engineering? Those who reacted to it by trying to even the playing field? I would say neither, really its the fault of the MM. Regardless of engineers losing their advantage or being "out-engineered" that just means someone is doing it better and further encourages the issue.
A solution needs to come through the MM or the problem will persist. This is why people in this thread are complaining, because a fix to this was supposed to come but it seems to only have made it worse. The fault lies with the war MM and with SC for not correcting this issue, they have only allowed it to fester.
We need to go back to matching by defense. On top of the map that is only thing that matters.Clans with more eagles/infernos has a huge advantage.
And to counter engineers, instead of trying to get fancy and match by attack power, just bump anyones def weight to a max of previous TH. So any defensless TH11 will weight same as max TH10 at mimuimum. Adjust as necessary (maybe weight it as max TH9 to start with) but this should take care of huge mismatches that are happening.
you're right, I only think it's funny how only now that their advantage is gone and their getting mismatches these engineers are coming here to complainQuote:
Originally Posted by Boschman93
tell me, before the last maintenance, how much times you complained when you got a mismatch in your favor because of engineering?
We never complained about mismatches and engineering, we always tried to adjust. But that last matchup isn't just mismatch, it's completely crazy. I know you think all engineers are bad, but just check that table. :)
My clan did a pretty good job of managing the previous MM to get opponents that were comparable to us. We were always attempting to find an even match. We used .5 as a means to keep bases in the war roster. It worked for us. We normally got fairly even matches. Noticeably weaker opponents were a rarity and we liked that. We don't find it all that fun to crush an opponent who doesn't have much of a chance. Just looking to find that same balance again. Who knows how drastic the adjustments to MM are going to be and how frequent now that more control has been built in.
War still lopsided for us, it's all up top with the th11 with eagle/warden. A few more th11 on the opposing side are the only wars we lose. In general my clan attacks better and builds better bases but a mid level th10 is not going to three a mid level th11 and that is what it's all about for us. You can fix engineering matchups but without weighing th11 more accurately it means little.
First war we had 9 TH11s vs their 16. Second war we are "only" outnumbered by 2. I would be ok with that if there were times when we actually got to be the outnumbering clan. Maybe 50/50? No, we haven't been the outnumbering clan on TH11s for as long as I can remember. We are always the underdog.
I am with others. Minimum defense weight per TH. All 11s should be ahead of all TH10s. Max Heroes, Warden, Max Troops and an extra spell...With that offense I can triple any 10 so I should weight higher than any 10. TH11s weighing less than 9s and less than 8s is not right and is the BIGGEST reason for these gross mismatches. Not .5s We dealt with .5s for a long time and we won most and lost some. But this latest wave of defenseless TH11s on the bottom crushing your #1 and #2 is crazy. FIX IT!
I agree... this is getting to be too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
We've had 2 wars since the update. we do not put engineered accounts in war, but we are in various stages of upgrades. seems the bad matches continue to get worse. This war we have 1 th11 enemy has 5
we run wars with 1 or 2 th11s all the way down to th7s. Usually 20 vs 20. If a clan member is opted in and is not rushed we include them in war.
Last month we've started being matched with more and more engineers with no big change in our line up that I can tell. Prior to that we were fairly even matched winning 5 to 7 war then getting match with an extreme engineered clans and loose one, but won more then we lost. Now after the update it seems to be even worse. our war log is turning red and I have no clue how to fix it. With every war more and more of our members opt out. As a casual adult clan we have no desire or the time to start new engineered accounts.
Our clan survived the removal of th sniping, i dont know that we will make it through this. I for one, will no longer buy gems until this, if ever, gets fixed.
Complete agree. This was basically our story as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormy90
No, the clan with the most GWs wins. Even with matching to max TH10s, engineered 11s will still prevail. An engineered TH11 is still at TH11, call it & weight it what it is...it can be done with minimum weights, but should be done with progressive weights...offense wins wars plan and simple, otherwise this engineering issue would NOT be an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClashingOutOfControl
The only exception to this would be if all defenses were extremely buffed...(who really wants that?!?)
The matchups may be worse now. We are warring at 30 v. 30. Our #30 is a TH3. Opponents' #30 is a TH11 with maxed loons and maxed dragons. Ridiculous.
Yes, this is so true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayer339
My current war MM in 30 vs 30
Ours
3 th 11 with EA.
2 th 11 without
Others are th 10, 9.5, 9, 8 and 7.
Against
Their
6 th 11 with EA
And 9 other Th11 masquerading as th9s and 8's and defenseless at the bottom.
They don't have any proper th10 or 9, and they snuck 3 th3's at the bottom.
Now all their th11 has at least 10/10/10 heroes and max lavalon.
I never get worse than this. We faced some engineered clans before, but never this terrible.
Not very balanced after three war searches...we always get more than 2 th11s with max troops and we have none...this last search we have to face 7 th11s with max troops and we have none...ridiculous...their def isn't great so prob a tie...just like last war 😢... The 'draw' statistic is about to skyrocket
Our clan has noticed immediate and drastic changes to our matchups. We typically run 15v15, with the following lineup:
5 th9.5's
7 th9's
1 th8.5
1 th8
1 th7
Our first two matchups featured 8 .5's and multiple engineered bases (at least half of which were 10.5's), and the first matchup was one of the very few times our opponent's have ever gotten a perfect war.
3rd miss match this last one is crazy match up. With 1-1/2 hour wait for this match up.
Us
2 th 11
2 th10
7 th 9
4 th 8
5 th 7
Them
3 th3
3 th10
7 th 9
6 th 6
1 th 10 eng base that's in the 18 spot 20/20 hero.
The MM is great for us. As an engineered clan we are rolling right along just like always. Our first war post update looked like we were at a disadvantage but we found a way to win. Second war we definitely had a disadvantage and found a way to win, again. Third war, is in prep day but we have a clear advantage, will be a curb stomping.
The point is, if you're actually good enough you can overcome mismatches in war. Instead of coming to the forum and crying about engineers being big meanies, take a look in the mirror. Find better war bases. Use better strats. The two wars that we were underdogs in we had our top 3 cleaned both times but our 4-6 defended. If you take a hard look at your matches they likely aren't near as bad as you think.
You and your clan also contributed to the problem by taking a maxer clan out of the matchmaking pool.Quote:
Originally Posted by strandwolfza
Including the .5s, engineered clans were matching other engineered clans before the change too. One of the two gets an advantage and the other a disadvantage. The one with the disadvantage complains. Nothing has changed as far as I can see other than some of the most extreme roster compositions are having very long search times (which is a good thing, I don't feel bad for them at all).Quote:
Originally Posted by strandwolfza
Hey all
Ontario Peeps has run 2 wars since update and we have faced two engineered clans. We are not engineered. We faced th11s when we have none and enemy has had more th10s than us period. No impact for us but hopeful we will see it as most of our wars now are mismatched.
you have a very broad range of town halls in ur roster from 11 all the way to th7... its not strange for your clan to get mismatches frequently...you need to have a very narrow range of town halls to get better matches ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheg76
Yep. We found reducing our range from th11 to advanced th8 (rather than th7 or low th8) helped.Quote:
Originally Posted by risingphoenix1
We are 6 th10s and rest 9s, no engineering and just got matched with 6 th11s and 10 th 10s and the rest 8 and below 75% engineered. This is actually our worst matchup ever. Seems like they broke the algorithm worse than before.
Just spun our second 10v10 and got a match in 30 seconds. Looks pretty even this time. Its 1 th10, 7 th9s 2 th8s.
Our MM so far has been much much better! No engineer bases up against us so far. Yea! Our war searches are great within 20 mins or less. Thank you COC!
Well I am back - now after getting 3rd awful war match that gives us basically zero chance of victory out of 3 wars since matchmaking update this is becoming a trend.
We are seriously considering throwing this war and taking a break from wars if this continues as simply no fun and making no sense .... never seen engineered clans like that or at least we never got matched up with them before....
Benemike99
Third war in to the new matchmaking we've now over 3 wars had our combined total 16 th11s go up against 36 total combined over the 3 wars. First war our 5 th11s vs 13 of theirs in a 30v30. Second war 6 th11s vs 14 of theirs 30v30. Now a 20v20 cause everyone is fed up and optd out 5 th11s of ours vs 9 of theirs. So every war now our opponents have had the firepower of max troops and heroes including warden to hit over 90% of our roster where in turn we can only hit 30% of theirs with 11s. Yes we have .5s but they are new ths not engineered.
Great fix
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erikj02
I've seen quite a number of posts of these two kinds. It's early to say and going out on a limb without enough data but it sounds like the new matchmaker is doing a far better job of protecting smaller th level average clans from being preyed on by engineers than in the past (yay!) while still struggling (and indeed going worse) at finding fair matches for clans of higher average th levels (boo... more work here please!). If so it has been a good step in the right direction and the next move must be looking at what we might call "th10s getting thumped by way too many wardens" mismatches.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeputyDonkey
In our 3rd war and seems about the same as before. We get a positive match about 2/3 of the time with us getting an advantage. The other 1/3 they get the advantage.
We have slightly engineered bases with max dragons and few defenses and low heros for th9 and th10. This seems to give us an advantage frequently but we still need to have good people at 1 and 2. These are a standard th10 with infernos and my base at #2 as a th9.5 with heros at 26/28.
We are a casual clan and our war record indicates that. We are generally happy with matches and typically get a 4-6 win streak before we lose.
Overall I have not noticed changes in match making in the past 1.5 years I have been playing, but I think casual 10v10 wars are pretty laid back. Matches never take longer than 15-20 minutes.
I love love clash, so I hope they make changes that keeps others going and makes some people happy. Seems like we will be fine regardless of match making algorithm......
3rd war after the update and another bad match up ... Last was against a super engineered clan (we are barely engineered at all, just 1 low defence th8 used as a space filler more than anything) and this one nearly as bad - them with 3 additional th10 and +1 th11 with both max .5 defence AND max troops.
Time to hang up the towel and opt out of wars, and pretty much the entire game, until/if this is fixed. If MM updates are going to be this bad then the only thing ♥♥♥ might achieve is a bigger fallout than the infamous Dec 15 update!
the new MM is very bad. DISAPPOINTED!!
0/2 so far.
We have a few villages that I consider to be "newly engineered" (TH9s with weak/missing defenses)...more on that in a minute, but our last 2 matchups have been crazy. The war we're in now is:
us: 1 max TH11, 6 TH10s from new to mid, 18 TH9s (4 engineered), 2 TH8s near max, 3 TH7 and below
them: 4 TH11 (2 semi-engineered, 2 very engineered), 8 TH10s (4 engineered), 15 TH9s (3 engineered, a few .5s), and 3 TH8s
We pretty much have no chance when 12 members of their clan bring TH10/11 offense against our 7.
In order to try to understand the new war weighting/match making system, we downloaded a war weight calculator from a site that claims to have built a spreadsheet based on information "straight from the source". Whether that's true or not, i can't validate, but what I CAN say is that...after plugging some of our bases into the spreadsheet...the calculator is either way off (no clue what engineered is), or it explains a lot about the kinds of match ups we're seeing. IF (if) the war weight calculator is close to accurate, then the definition of "engineered" is so narrow that almost no one qualifies. In other words, we match up with heavily engineered clans because the algorithm's narrow definition of "engineered" considers them to NOT be...and so we're in the same "matching pool".
I'm certainly willing to cut Supercell some slack...no new algorithm system will be perfect right out of the gate, and it's likely tuned "too loose" in an attempt to keep matchmaking times as low as possible, but still begin to separate the heaviest engineers from the most rigid maxxers. However, it appears to be tuned way to loosely...the definition for "engineered" needs to be adjusted.
For our next war, we're going to bench all our engineers and see if our match up changes. We're not permanently benching ANYONE (it's a game, everyone wants to play), but the match up result we get with them on the bench may help us decide how to proceed. If playing with balanced villages STILL draws an engineered opponent, then there's no need to begin leveling off the few engineered players in our clan.
Feedback:- mm is improved, cannon cart is still usless. No one is using cannon cart on my base (Bh 6) qnd my cannon cart is lvl 1 😂😂. Thanks for improved War MM 👍
Max th11 and 3 th11 vs our 1 th11 and 4 th10s - our clan will stop war soon. Lvl 12 clan and the overpowered defense buff is ridiculous. Game is boring now. Been a clasher for 3 years and a huge fan but with overpowered defences it's not worth playing any more.
This happened this war
We had a normal war with 2 th 10s and lower. They had 5 th 11s at various stages all with wardens. Lost 43 to 44. There number 9 (one of the 11s) did the best on our number 1. Stupid matchup
Did you miss where they stated they do not want to remove engineering? You're obviously not on the forums a lot then, thats ok. For the life of me I can't remember where I saw it but it was posted by Darian.Quote:
Originally Posted by JFSoul
Thank you for taking the time to respond.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rephren
I saw Darian's post, but I have a different interpretation. To me, that means they do not want to limit any progression path, which includes engineering. However they have emphatically stated they DO want to remove the advantage engineering brings to war matchmaking. Your original statement says otherwise, which is why I wanted to see your reference.
Here are mine:
SC Q&A about Engineering
https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...-Developer-Q-A
Quote Originally Posted by Anoushka[Supercell]
Hey all,How is Supercell working towards balancing Clan Wars matchmaking?
With every update there is the normal round of war matchmaking balance, and that will always shift things a bit. New troops/defenses/levels/stat changes get incorporated and weights are rebalanced according to troop usage and effectiveness.
In the last update we rolled out a couple of adjustments so that "lopsided" bases/clans don't have that much advantage as before, and the more extreme cases of lopsided clans will have a harder time finding a match, and will be matched with tougher opponents. We firmly believe in a good balance and will continue to monitor things and to roll out small (or bigger) adjustments to war matchmaking with every update."
https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...und-IV-ANSWERS
5)Does Supercell see lopsided bases as a fair and equitable playing style?
"Engineering" is a heated topic and opinions about it are divided.
Are lopsided bases anything we can prevent? If we could, should we do drastic changes? Would players put up with strict restrictions on upgrades to mandate offense-defense balance?
Say we put in a restriction, could the restrictions be balanced to be somewhat more lenient? Where would we draw the line? And if this is a complex line, would we need tools to help players manage their upgrades and understand their restrictions better?
Some cases cannot be prevented even with restrictions. For instance, thinking about launching a new troop, spell, defense or extra buildings at lower Town Hall levels. Doing balancing becomes more difficult, as any bigger rebalance could allow people to break the restrictions.
Without a restriction, what can we do? Keep in mind that we are already doing a lot. As mentioned in the previous Dev Q&A, there is a huge amount of code behind the CW matchmaking that specifically looks for lopsided bases and is designed to mitigate any unfair advantage they might have. This isn’t always obvious to players, because the war map is sorted by defense strength only. However, attack strength is ALWAYS taken into account, and CW matchmaking does all it can to make sure the “books are balanced” overall from top to bottom of a war map, both in terms of attack and defense strength. Of course we can always do better and we will continue to improve this matchmaking very often.
We can’t really prevent them without making extremely complex restrictions that will adversely impact some players and that would require a lot of time and development effort to do right - and even then they might not even work that well in the long term. Instead, we try to improve our matchmaking algorithms to reduce unfair advantages from things like lopsided bases, and we will continue to do so regularly!
hehe, JF, you obviously had that response neatly packaged ready for me when you knew I was going to reference Darian's post ;) nice catch. (even if you deny it)
In any event, the fact he has explicitly stated they do NOT want to limit any playstyle (engineering) yet they want to remove the advantage engineering has - means what exactly? It has much wriggle room doesn't it?
It's basically saying, "We accept engineering sucks and is wrong, but we don't want to remove it because many people play it" Basically there is an ulterior motive here too isn't there? If they don't remove engineering because "Its a playstyle they dont want to remove" they can then state they want to limit its advantage - do absolutely squat (as we're seeing with all the responses here) and still make plenty money.
So to summarise: they are saying they will not remove engineering, but will limit its advantage - then do absolutely nothing because that seems just lip service. And the matchups since the MM update and proving that "limit" its advantage is just that...lip service. Its genius really.
3rd war into new mm system and its imho still not better but hopefully its providing adequate info for adjustments soon, losing a lot of players right now, even our leader and a few others have quit the game after years of playing. We are a clan of over 40 yr olds and the wars are honestly losing the thrill they once held. Good luck clashers
Think in these 2 cases the difference is war size 10 vs 10 and 20+vs20+... Sooo to sum up what iv learned so far. To avoid engineers, we need to do smaller wars, and narrow th range. So all of us casually clans, with wide th ranges, as we like to have full clans and teach lower ths how to play, need to adapt... kick out all th8s and lower, try to recruit only th 9s and up, and tell them most wars theyll be sitting out as we only do 10 vs 10. We survive the th 11 update this would kill us off for sure and take the fun out of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomville
I think you may mean the video where he is being interviewed by Ash. If so his point was consistent with what JFSoul is saying: they don't want to kill it off as a base development option, just to remove an unwarranted degree of advantage in the matchmaking process where that playstyle has become overly dominant as the meta to the detriment of other equally valid play styles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rephren
Not sure why you are personally attacking me. Just responding to your posts and trying to learn your point of view.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rephren
The highlight above is your opinion, and I've shared that sentiment at times: SC states they want to remove the advantage, but the perception is they have done nothing measurable in each MM update. But I disagree with your original post in which you said SC has stated they do not want to remove the advantage. That seems factually incorrect.
Cheers.
My man you're a sensitive bloke hey, that's ok, I really am not attacking you. I promise.
In any event, your picking apart of a factually incorrect statement is appreciated, but my point which you agree to, stands firm. Supercell are paying lip service to "correcting the advantage' that engineered bases have. Yet they let the mismatches continue on a grand scale. This tells us plenty. It tells us they aren't willing to mess with the revenue engineering brings. Yet they will make it look as if they are, which placates the maxers into believing SC are going to eventually fix this mess therefore it leaves then with hope, false hope, but hope nonetheless. Therefore the maxers continue to spend . It's a great plan by SC. Shrewd, just like We'd expect a freemium gaming company to be.
I am just trying to help spread this information so we can all manage our expectations and in the end hopefully this info will make happier clashers one day playing the game within the confines of the rules but enjoying the game more knowing what it is.
So after an unfair matchup on the first war ( previously posted), we decided to add 4 very low level bases. Well, the enemy also has 4 very low bases so that is fair. However, same as last time we have 2 TH11, one which is maxed and the other rather new. The enemy has two maxed th11 bases. This has now happened twice and I dont recall it ever happening before. My conclusion after two war matchups, I liked the previous algorithm better.
To be honest, what you are spreading is cynicism and an interpretation of Supercell's motives, as opposed to actual feedback on your in game experience of the new matchmaker in action. They have created and stickied this thread asking for feedback, so let's stick to doing that. If the feedback is bad, then it's bad - but only useful if specific to in game experiences of recent war matching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rephren
We are a clan of maxers and used to face engineered bases all the time. After the change, we faced a balanced war. They have one extra TH10, but no engineered bases. It worked for us.
You are making the assumption that SC has an ulterior motive for not having implemented a perfect MM system. Is it at all possible that they tried and failed? To me this seems a more likely scenario that what you are suggesting. Income generation requires a player base and I think they are aware that people are unhappy with the MM system as is. I don't think they are short-sighted enough to imagine that 'paying lip service' to anyone is going to keep them playing indefinitely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rephren
SC has stated that there is an ability to adjust and fine tune this new MM. They are asking for feedback to see how it is working. Now it can be tweaked. Then they will ask again I would assume.
Our first match, 2 town hall 11's, 4 town hall 10's, misc nonrushed bases below. Them, 6 town hall 11's, 1 town hall 10, misc nonrushed bases below. It was no contest for us. Not very happy.
Same here. Our highest offensive troop is Lvl 6 hogs, BUT twice since the update we're matched against th11 max offensed troops. WHERE'S THE UPDATE?? WHO HAS IT HELPED??Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat5592