Nice job on the match making update Supercell

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

Define engineers. One clan is (although that's maybe a couple of bases outside x.5s in a 30 or 40 war). The others are what I would consider typical clans - some x.5s. Slightly rushed in places but had heard not to drop too many big defences. Eg newish 9.5 with heroes in the low-mid 20s and IIRC not masses in the way of troops yet, upgrading defences but holding off on infernos for now. But unhappy to have an opponent with 2 low defence TH11 bases that can stomp anything their side - that 9.5 was #1. They don't consider themselves engineered.

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as I imagined

what is really important, onyx, is that these kinds of clans would still get an advantage over maxers in the old MM. so, for this reason, imo, they're engineers. not hard core engineers, but still engineers. and my definition of engineer is anything that isn't maxed or nearly closed to maxed (not all walls maxed, some traps not maxed, a few low weight defenses not maxed)

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Originally Posted by strandwolfza

as I imagined

what is really important, onyx, is that these kinds of clans would still get an advantage over maxers in the old MM. so, for this reason, imo, they're engineers. not hard core engineers, but still engineers. and my definition of engineer is anything that isn't maxed or nearly closed to maxed (not all walls maxed, some traps not maxed, a few low weight defenses not maxed)

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So a new th9 is engineered until 6 months later when it is close to max?

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Originally Posted by strandwolfza

as I imagined

what is really important, onyx, is that these kinds of clans would still get an advantage over maxers in the old MM. so, for this reason, imo, they're engineers. not hard core engineers, but still engineers. and my definition of engineer is anything that isn't maxed or nearly closed to maxed (not all walls maxed, some traps not maxed, a few low weight defenses not maxed)

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But why do maxers grind out all those heroes at TH9? It's not because they think they're a disadvantage at war, is it?

I suspect clans containing only near-max bases at each TH are a very small minority of all clans. And they seem to me to be clans that have deliberately fixed their line-up for war purposes: ie they are much more engineered (in the sense of deciding upgrades and clan composition for the purpose of war) than the average clan of a bunch of farmers who hit the war button mostly with whoever wants to war.

And are you seriously defining everyone in the first 2 or 3 months of a TH as an engineer?

That one clan I visited made an impression on me. I think they were kids (school or college age), not forum readers, just a bunch of kids playing the game. It was a newish clan - level 6. There was no way they could match what you consider a maxer clan - too many bases fresh at each TH; too low at the bottom (several TH7s). They looked like the future of the game to me. You seem happy if the future of the game gets squished - happy for the game to die.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

Define engineers. One clan is (although that's maybe a couple of bases outside x.5s in a 30 or 40 war). The others are what I would consider typical clans - some x.5s. Slightly rushed in places but had heard not to drop too many big defences. Eg newish 9.5 with heroes in the low-mid 20s and IIRC not masses in the way of troops yet, upgrading defences but holding off on infernos for now. But unhappy to have an opponent with 2 low defence TH11 bases that can stomp anything their side - that 9.5 was #1. They don't consider themselves engineered.

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There's no such thing as "newish" TH 9.5 with low/mid 20s heroes.
That's not correct and you know it.

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Originally Posted by 2222

So a new th9 is engineered until 6 months later when it is close to max?

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Technically yes if they dont add th9 def. General thumb (I know it varies depending on ur roster) imo is 15-20 lv1 bows, 20-25 lv2 bows, 25-30 lv3 bows. That imo is following balanced approached to ug. Jus my opinion tho

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Originally Posted by strandwolfza

as I imagined

what is really important, onyx, is that these kinds of clans would still get an advantage over maxers in the old MM. so, for this reason, imo, they're engineers. not hard core engineers, but still engineers. and my definition of engineer is anything that isn't maxed or nearly closed to maxed (not all walls maxed, some traps not maxed, a few low weight defenses not maxed)

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Really need to look at what the mm considers engineered, not yours. Remember its about what is really happening, not what you think should happen.

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Originally Posted by ReplicantRachel

There's no such thing as "newish" TH 9.5 with low/mid 20s heroes.

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Why not? AFAIK they were a TH9 with max-guns, respectable but not max walls and heroes in the low 20s a little while ago and upgraded. I guess max TH9 troops, although I don't really remember. Which seems to me a fairly typical time for people to upgrade to TH10.

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Originally Posted by ReplicantRachel

There's no such thing as "newish" TH 9.5 with low/mid 20s heroes.

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My main is a newish 9.5 with low/mid 20s heroes. I upgraded from maxed defenses and walls th9 with 25/25 and am upgrading my troops and defenses since then. I didn't put down infernos because my royals are not strong enough to deal with infernos but I couldn't do the th9 grind anymore, just got tired of it. There are plenty of other accounts like mine. So what you are claiming here is simply disconnected from reality.

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Originally Posted by kimchilove

Technically yes if they dont add th9 def. General thumb (I know it varies depending on ur roster) imo is 15-20 lv1 bows, 20-25 lv2 bows, 25-30 lv3 bows. That imo is following balanced approached to ug. Jus my opinion tho

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People, especially casuals, upgrade slowly sometimes. Some 6 months old Th9s might have less than 15/15 heroes. So the question is when should these guys drop their XBows (if the MM consider any TH9 with Xbows as engineered)?

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

And are you seriously defining everyone in the first 2 or 3 months of a TH as an engineer?

That one clan I visited made an impression on me. I think they were kids (school or college age), not forum readers, just a bunch of kids playing the game. It was a newish clan - level 6. There was no way they could match what you consider a maxer clan - too many bases fresh at each TH; too low at the bottom (several TH7s). They looked like the future of the game to me. You seem happy if the future of the game gets squished - happy for the game to die.

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I can't give you any more reps so I'll just have to settle on agreeing with you here.

If we look at the whole population of clashers I would imagine the TH designs would look like a bell shaped curve. Hardcore maxers and hardcore engineers are on the two ends: extreme outliers. When a MM caters to the two extremes, its just bad for the average joes (casuals) who play this game.