The one and only " War search after update" thread

As a mildly engineered clan our first spin netted us another mildly engineered clan who somewhat out engineered us by having 2 dragon spamming TH11s at the bottom and stronger defenses up top.

Our second spin (15 man war) sees us with a solid advantage.
US: Th10.5 (40/40/17), Th10 (38/40), Th9.5 (25/25) 2 normal Th9s, 1 TH8.5, 2 manicured Th9s, 7 TH8
Them: TH10 (28/34), Th10 (24/25), Th9.5 (20/24) 3 normal TH9s, 4 rushed/early Th9s, 2 TH8, 2 TH7, 1 TH5

Conclusions based on 2 data points. From first war, roster engineering is alive and well. From second war, warden is still "free".

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Originally Posted by SuperStorm103

I like the term uneven better. I'm still partial that some how the match maker factors in attack skills. We have had some very bad paper matches in the past that we won because the other clans attack skills were really bad.

Maybe if SC wanted wars to "appear more fair". They should remove the recent war performance and clan attack skill (if it does that) skewing from its operation.

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I'm the friend he's visiting and I doubt it's factoring clan attack skill, given our collective rather modest ability. We aren't dire but neither are we wonderful - our best streak for a long time would be 3 or 4 wins. We came into this war on a streak of 3. We're pretty much "get there on 2 starring the th11 and 3 star the 10s" warriors, not "th11 3 star city". This enemy, luckily, have many who just 1 star an equal sized base. So I don't know what the story with that match is - it seems not about recent war performance or or attack skill. It's more to do with how sticking low bases on bottom can get you more max ones just above there, even where those low bases are max th9 and various size of th10. I should be clear though, we got these sorts of matches before the recent changes too. They aren't a fun thing, on the whole - clan mates with no realistic target while others are stretched maybe too far to cover. It's one thing for a th10 to hit up on a small or weak design th11, a completely different thing when it's a big th11 with centralised th, eagle and cc.

second new mm war:

again, th11s without eagles (10.5) are matched with max th10s, regardless of warden. i have the feeling that they dont count .5s as "engineered", which would make sense to me, because those are part of the natural progress to me.

(still, i find that a gw gives too much of an advantage, so a 10.5 is always stronger than a defensive-similar th10…)


anyways: one thing that i noticed:

in our clan we got one truely engineered th11 that is ranked among the th9s defenisve wise (no xbows, no infernos, no eagle, but high air def , high cannons, high archer towers) - the other clan has a similar *structure*:

they also got just one truely engineered base (a th10, with max th10 troops n heroes) among their th9s…


good match in respect to structure, but bad in respect to levels. our engineered one and .5s are th11s, their engineered one is a th10 and then a few max th10s..

we outweigh them on offense! As someone above said: "warden seems to be free": so far, i tend to agree

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Originally Posted by ombre

second new mm war:

again, th11s without eagles (10.5) are matched with max th10s, regardless of warden. i have the feeling that they dont count .5s as "engineered", which would make sense to me, because those are part of the natural progress to me.

(still, i find that a gw gives too much of an advantage, so a 10.5 is always stronger than a defensive-similar th10…)


anyways: one thing that i noticed:

in our clan we got one truely engineered th11 that is ranked among the th9s defenisve wise (no xbows, no infernos, no eagle, but high air def , high cannons, high archer towers) - the other clan has a similar *structure*:

they also got just one truely engineered base (a th10, with max th10 troops n heroes) among their th9s…


good match in respect to structure, but bad in respect to levels. our engineered one and .5s are th11s, their engineered one is a th10 and then a few max th10s..

we outweigh them on offense! As someone above said: "warden seems to be free": so far, i tend to agree

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My very first post here was a complaint about the GW and it needing to be weighed significantly higher. At the time, we had a couple of mid TH10s (with infernos) and would frequently pull a TH11 at the top with GW>5 and another engineered TH11 below with GW>5. Those became unwinnable wars quickly because of max miner spam or lavaloons being able to take out our top guys. Even dragon raids with the GW's ability... GW is a massive offensive game changer, and now that offense is being weighted I'd like/hope to see the GW get a properly high weight.

Seen 3 matchups across 3 clans since the update. I'm liking what I see. Very balanced. In one of the matchups we ran all TH9s in a 30v30. Enemy had a decently built TH11 with a couple heavily rushed TH10s and the rest TH9s. Was actually a very close war.

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Originally Posted by Mudbugs

Seen 3 matchups across 3 clans since the update. I'm liking what I see. Very balanced. In one of the matchups we ran all TH9s in a 30v30. Enemy had a decently built TH11 with a couple heavily rushed TH10s and the rest TH9s. Was actually a very close war.

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That sounds like a huge disadvantage to me. If both clans are equally skilled the enemy 3 stars your entire clan and you don't 3 star all of their bases. The fact the score is close wouldn't matter if at the start of the war they know they are getting a perfect score and you are not. If they weren't very skilled and couldn't 3 star all of the th9s, that doesn't mean the match was fair, it just means they weren't very skilled.

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Originally Posted by Mudbugs

Seen 3 matchups across 3 clans since the update. I'm liking what I see. Very balanced. In one of the matchups we ran all TH9s in a 30v30. Enemy had a decently built TH11 with a couple heavily rushed TH10s and the rest TH9s. Was actually a very close war.

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Unless they have so many TH9s with sub-TH9 offense that they couldn't hope to clear your 9s, I have to agree with 2222. That's not at all a decent matchup. The devil is in the details.

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Originally Posted by 2222

That sounds like a huge disadvantage to me. If both clans are equally skilled the enemy 3 stars your entire clan and you don't 3 star all of their bases. The fact the score is close wouldn't matter if at the start of the war they know they are getting a perfect score and you are not. If they weren't very skilled and couldn't 3 star all of the th9s, that doesn't mean the match was fair, it just means they weren't very skilled.

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I agree it's likely a mismatch, but how long should they be kept waiting for another all TH9 clan to search in 30v30? Even if there were TH8s balancing out the higher bases, it'd still be a functional mismatch.

I'm not sure mismatches in cases like this are avoidable in practice due to rarity of the clan composition. What sort of clan (that's not all TH9) would be a nonmismatch to either side?

We are currently in the middle of battle day on our first match since the "fix". I would have to say it's a very lopsided match, but in our favor.

Us
TH 11 - 45/45/20, lvl 2EA, lvl 3 ITs
TH 10 - Max except about 15 pcs of wall 40/40
TH 10 - Max except about 50 walls 40/39
TH 10 - 75% max, one lvl 2 IT, one lvl 1 IT 35/35
TH 10 - Fairly new, bit rushed but not "engineered", Lvl 1 ITs, three lvl 3 bows, 20/19
TH9 - max except walls 80% lava, 26/26
TH9 - same as above but heros 23/22
TH9 - Max def, 25% Lego walls, rest lava 17/15
TH9 - Max off/def, 100% lego walls 16/15
TH9 - Lvl 2 bows, about 50% Max def, max drags and loons, few Legos but mostly skull walls 10/10
TH9 - new TH8 def/off except dragons, one lvl 1 bow 7aq/10bk
TH8 max
TH8 max
TH8 max except walls 75%
TH8 50% - bk8

Them
TH10 Max off/def except mostly Lego walls 28/26
TH10 same as 1, 20/20
TH10 Max def except walls and one lvl 1 IT 35/32
TH10 lvl 1 ITs, three lvl 3 bows, skull/Lego walls 20/16
TH10 lvl 1 ITs, two lvl 3 bows, one lvl 1. 15/15
TH10 - new. Only 2 bows but dropped both ITs which are lvl 1. Camps and troops not yet upgraded. 22/20
TH9 - Max except walls 75% lava 20/20
TH9 - Max except walls 50% lava 20/19
TH9 - Max off/def 90% Lego 10%skull 15/13
TH9 - almost identical to the one above. Same hero levels.
TH9 - lvl 2 bows, lvl 4 valks and drags but only lvl 2 golem, lvl 3 hogs and lvl 5 loons. Has not unlocked witch or hound. Four lvl 7 ADs. 12/10
TH9 - lvl 1 bows, three lvl 7 ADs and one lvl 5. Dragons are the only troop upgraded past TH8 lvl. 10/10
TH8 75% max lvl 10 BK
TH8 about the same as above.

In a nutshell, we have a near max 11 up top, they have no 11s at all.
They have 6 TH10s to our 4
Both sides have 6 TH9s
They have 3 TH8s to our 4.

The only advantage they have is at TH10/8 and it's only an advantage of numbers. In terms of defense and attacking power we have them outmatched almost across the board.

Btw, I only post this to point out what most others are saying. The MM is certainly not fixed. This will be an easy win but we're not really happy with the matchup. If the MM can give these guys that unfair of a match, karma will most likely bite us as well.

We matched in less than 5 min. First spin.

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Originally Posted by JFSoul

I haven't done a war in my clan since the update. Plan to do a spin tonight.

I'm visiting a friend's clan and we got a bad matchup--but no engineering on either end, so I'm suprised we got paired. It's a 15v15 war. Our 1-9 are max (or very near max) TH11s with EAs and Infernos, almost all max heroes. Our 10-14 are max or high level TH10s with Infernos. Our 15 is a max TH9.

Their 1-12 are max (or very near max) TH11s with EAs and Infernos, and almost all max heroes. Their 13-14 are low level TH10s, and their 15 is a near max TH9.

I can see how their 13-14 sort of help with the overall clan weight to give them an extra TH11, but IMO it shouldn't be 3 extra TH11s in a 15v15 war.

We are lucky in that as of this morning (about12 hours into battle day) they are not attacking well, so we are in this war. But on paper it's an unfair matchup.

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This is a classic example of why wars are uneven. This also shows that engineering is not the reason for uneven wars.

I know exactly why you guys got the short end of the stick. I'm in no way challenging nor looking for a toxic debate.

But take a look at both clans, not from a perspective that they are a composition of many bases, look at each clan as if they were each just one base vs one base. They have the same in weight to the other if you add up all the weight of the bases to make each clan be just one base. If you see that, you will understand that this is how the MM looks at clans, to the MM, it's just one base vs another.

Many believe that a war match is based on what type of bases they have. Many accusations go to people that have this type of base vs that type of base. The funny part of it is, all of these different types of bases are non relevant to getting an even war.

The MM is not that sophisticated. All it does is add up the weight of a clan into a single entity, then pairs it up with a similarly weighted clan (base).

Knowing this, getting good matches has nothing to do with what "type" of bases you have, it's has everything to do with the balance of your clan.

At least, with the current MM that is how it works.