Engineering...after all my research... supercell is telling me ...

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Originally Posted by Ripple1972

The current mm rewards smart, researched bases more than any other. If you believe that blind lopsided are rewarded, (not sure I support this) but if you believe and understand that lopsided is favored, why, other than league participation would you not build to get an advantage.

The reason (imo) these discussions end up negative is I have not heard a logical reason for not engineering (excepting max th11 as of March 2016 or league play). Everything else is an emotional response or personal reason. There is nothing wrong with those but you can't defend personal feelings with logic.

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I can give you a logical reason for not engineering. I have 1 acct. I also don't have the time to manage multiple accts. I work alot of hours and my kids are uber active. Now, with my one acct I see zero reason that I should be disadvantaged for building all my defence. I should be able to play the whole game. That is fairly sound logic imo. As to the emotional responses, your correct, alot hear are very emotionally involved and sometimes struggle to contain said emotions. I'm not one of them though. I don't like engineering wars so I've simply been pushed out of a big part of the game. Now for the smart comment. I'm admittedly not the smartest cookie around but yet I, as a non engineer, could easily build a well engineered base, this is a game and not a hard one to grasp. I can get behind alot of what you say but this comment I'm afraid I find way off base.

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Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit

A clan of nothing but engineers will still not win. An anchor is needed. If you are maxed or going that route what is wrong with being the anchor?

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Nothing is wrong with that. Alot of us just don't enjoy engineered wars. Being a anchor in those wars doesn't help the situation one bit. I won't fault you for advocating for engis but don't agree with telling maxers to just find a role in a engineering clan.

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Originally Posted by lypang

Getting those max heroes are not easy, either with lots of time spent or lots of money spent.

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Smarter engineering means you're not maxing heroes, nor upgrading troops you don't need. It took me almost a year to get a TH10 with 15/15 heroes, maxed camps, cc & spell factory, with ground & air attack options in war. I wasn't working all that hard & actually slowed down development in the last few months to see if SC was going to address lopsiding in a meaningful way. A little more commitment would have that account at 20/20/10 with troops that can roll over most casual TH10s.

tl/dr: Even if your goal is to eventually max everything, rushing the TH gets you there faster. Ever since the March 2016 update, you get the additional benefit of being an advantage in war.

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Originally Posted by Clark11308

I can give you a logical reason for not engineering. I have 1 acct. I also don't have the time to manage multiple accts. I work alot of hours and my kids are uber active. Now, with my one acct I see zero reason that I should be disadvantaged for building all my defence. I should be able to play the whole game.

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This guy represents the vast majority of clashers. This (I believe) is where most of SC's long term revenue is at. If it weren't for a couple of other guys in my clan willing to build & tweak multiple accounts to somewhat offset the engineering trend, we'd have likely quit the game months ago. As things stand, the arms race of engineering all these accounts is burning us out. We're hardly unique.

I have serious doubts that many of the pro-engineering crowd will stick with the game when all other players are doing the same thing. I could be wrong, but winning 50% in seriously competitive wars doesn't seem to be the goal.

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Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit

When was this? Ive been warring for over 3 years and found rushing with a strategy has always worked.

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Back when TH10 was the max TH, you could do ok by rushing with offense somewhat ahead of defense, but a one cannon TH10 with max offense was not an account anyone wanted in war when offense counted for a large chunk of war weight. A rushed TH9.5 with 15/15 heroes & the troops available at the time wasn't a ridiculous mismatch against a fully maxed TH9. The March 2016 update made ridiculously lopsided accounts world beaters in war. It's been a little different since last October. No defense accounts aren't much if any advantage & you do need defensive stoppers in your lineup. Because SC left that door open so long, there are many clans running TH10s & TH11s using mass dragons/bowlers/miners to win more wars than they otherwise could hope to win.

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Originally Posted by Clark11308

Nothing is wrong with that. Alot of us just don't enjoy engineered wars. Being a anchor in those wars doesn't help the situation one bit. I won't fault you for advocating for engis but don't agree with telling maxers to just find a role in a engineering clan.

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Im about a clan for all play styles and really think a clan like that is best for the game since it envolves everyone. However if that is considered an engineered clan the i guess i really dont know what an engineer is.
If a person chooses to play in a ♥♥♥♥nogious clan that is fine. Remember the are plus and minus for it. As long as a person can accept the cons without complaint i see nothing wrong with that. However if the person thinks somethings are unfair the they need to rethink their choices.

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Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit

Im about a clan for all play styles and really think a clan like that is best for the game since it envolves everyone. However if that is considered an engineered clan the i guess i really dont know what an engineer is.
If a person chooses to play in a ♥♥♥♥nogious clan that is fine. Remember the are plus and minus for it. As long as a person can accept the cons without complaint i see nothing wrong with that. However if the person thinks somethings are unfair the they need to rethink their choices.

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Different levels of engineering. Our clan has .5 bases, 9.11 base(s), a 10.5 base, a couple of (not quite) defenceless bases. Typically we carry 3 max TH11s at the top of our war line up as the anchors. We had one clan write a comment about us in their clan description during the war we were in with them. We aren't a completely engineered clan looking to sandbag to gain weaker opponents, we engineered to stay even with the clans we kept getting matched up with.

A completely maxed clan might consider us heavily engineered. A heavily engineered clan might consider us barely engineered. It's all about perspective. That being said, in the end I'd consider us an engineered clan.

Good, bad, right, wrong. In the end, I don't worry about it. We do what we feel is the best for us, and our clan.

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Originally Posted by MouthofSauron

Different levels of engineering. Our clan has .5 bases, 9.11 base(s), a 10.5 base, a couple of (not quite) defenceless bases. Typically we carry 3 max TH11s at the top of our war line up as the anchors. We had one clan write a comment about us in their clan description during the war we were in with them. We aren't a completely engineered clan looking to sandbag to gain weaker opponents, we engineered to stay even with the clans we kept getting matched up with.

A completely maxed clan might consider us heavily engineered. A heavily engineered clan might consider us barely engineered. It's all about perspective. That being said, in the end I'd consider us an engineered clan.

Good, bad, right, wrong. In the end, I don't worry about it. We do what we feel is the best for us, and our clan.

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well if maxers think anything other than maxed is engieering then well... everyone is engineered at some point except the permamaxer. This would include a person going toward max since they are building but not yet maxed.
Where i see one side fluid and evoloving, changing with in the game as SC contiunues to change the otherside can be considered hard nose and stubbornn unwilling to bend and flex with the times. It would really appear this group is a vocal.minority. Still I see their place and need in the game.
I also see one side willing to work with all and another side being selfrighteous wishing to cast the other out of the game.

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Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit

I also see one side willing to work with all and another side being selfrighteous wishing to cast the other out of the game.

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Very few people arguing against engineering are permamaxers. Nobody is telling engineers to Max everything and sit at a townhall level. In fact, very few people are saying that cast the engineers out of the game, if they are, it is not because they hate engineers, but because they hate how the mm works.

We, the players with non-maxed balanced bases, want that engineers should pull similarly engineered clans and maxers should pull maxers. That's all we want. But I don't see too many engineers agreeing to this.

A lot of engineers are good attackers too and they only resorted to engineering to stop their clan from losing to other engineers. These people should not have a problem if the advantage of engineered bases is taken away.

As for the others who want the advantage that engineering provides in war to stay, I see a bunch of people who are scared to attack a th9 with th9 troops(not even talking about 10v10s). Yes it is hard, and nobody 6 packs every war, but that's why it's fun.

And if the definition of engineered is confusing, then I'll just say what I consider engineering. Every base whose defence and offence are not weighted at the same th level, can be considered engineered. Yes, .5s are engineered, that's why supercell nerfed them.

This is not about ethics anymore. Supercell has made its stand clear, war weight manipulation is not a valid strategy according to them. But they are not saying that lopsided bases should suffer, they're saying that they should not get an advantage in war. I don't see why engineers are against this idea.

I don't think it was necessarily a mistake.
Oviously none of us know what they were really thinking when they decided to make offense weigh less. My guess is they were decentivising permamaxing. I don't think they were aware of the full scope of what was going to happen, but I think they saw 9.11 coming from a mile away, and it was the point. Not sure, but food for thought.

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Originally Posted by DBlaze

I stated this earlier in this thread and I'll state it again. The main reason why more and more are driving for engineering is because of the advantages it brings. If there were no advantages, no one would be doing it. Calling it "being rewarded" is a bit of stretch. What you're forgetting is that Supercell created this mess, this advantage, in the first place. People treat engineering like it's this ground breaking thing. Engineering, that we see TODAY, didn't create this. It was Supercells mistakes that created engineering. Why should a certain playstyle be rewarded when it was clearly created by mistake? And if this new mm does what Supercell says, putting similar clans with similar clans, will you still call it "being rewarded?"

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