Engineering...after all my research... supercell is telling me ...

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Originally Posted by Tomville

You are missing something, I think. The usual line of thought is that engineering hurts casuals both because they don't engineer themselves and because they are the primary prey of engineers, most likely to be in the wider th spread mixed lineup family and friends clans. That hurts the game because it means they can win less wars than they would have done if matched with other friends and family clans, and so have less fun than they would have done at war and are more likely to drop out of warring altogether. So when someone says something like "the matchmaker advantage from engineering should be kerbed for the betterment of the game" they aren't trying to speak for the casuals as if they shared that mentality, or pretending to represent a majority, but rather are speaking up to say something both sensible and plausible going from pretty well established facts about engineering, people's enjoyment, and what happens when people perceive systematic unfairness or excess difficulty (such as being repeatedly beaten up by bigger troops than any of them have).

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They are primary prey based on what stats exactly? Do you have the stats and data to back up your claims or do you just have assumptions based on other's experience with the matchmaking? Have you warred with true casuals on a regular basis in the last 6 months? I have, not once did we bump into an engineered clan, was it their loss streak or negative win/loss ratio that came into play? Possibly but that never get's brought up when determining whether that is protection for casual clans, rather it's regularly brought up as "punishment" for those who go a on win streak.

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Originally Posted by JKL2207

They are primary prey based on what stats exactly? Do you have the stats and data to back up your claims or do you just have assumptions based on other's experience with the matchmaking? Have you warred with true casuals on a regular basis in the last 6 months? I have, not once did we bump into an engineered clan, was it their loss streak or negative win/loss ratio that came into play? Possibly but that never get's brought up when determining whether that is protection for casual clans, rather it's regularly brought up as "punishment" for those who go a on win streak.

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I'm in a very casual clan. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one in my clan to read anything from these forums, much less post a message. I can tell you that we have consistently (last couple of months) been matched with clans that have higher ths. We are tired of being hit by higher troops than we have available. Their bases are not easy either. They normally have some upgrades (teslas) also. I am your casual (very casual) player and I will not play with current mm. I only speak for one casual clan, but I'm sure we're not alone.

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Originally Posted by Tomville

You are missing something, I think. The usual line of thought is that engineering hurts casuals both because they don't engineer themselves and because they are the primary prey of engineers, most likely to be in the wider th spread mixed lineup family and friends clans. That hurts the game because it means they can win less wars than they would have done if matched with other friends and family clans, and so have less fun than they would have done at war and are more likely to drop out of warring altogether. So when someone says something like "the matchmaker advantage from engineering should be kerbed for the betterment of the game" they aren't trying to speak for the casuals as if they shared that mentality, or pretending to represent a majority, but rather are speaking up to say something both sensible and plausible going from pretty well established facts about engineering, people's enjoyment, and what happens when people perceive systematic unfairness or excess difficulty (such as being repeatedly beaten up by bigger troops than any of them have).

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Great response. My hero. A friendly voice in the dark.

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Originally Posted by kimchilove

Hmmm more interesting pov. Nice rebuttal

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Good stuff. My backup hero.

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Originally Posted by Playforwar

I'm in a very casual clan. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one in my clan to read anything from these forums, much less post a message. I can tell you that we have consistently (last couple of months) been matched with clans that have higher ths. We are tired of being hit by higher troops than we have available. Their bases are not easy either. They normally have some upgrades (teslas) also. I am your casual (very casual) player and I will not play with current mm. I only speak for one casual clan, but I'm sure we're not alone.

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Wow really? I havent been warring lately bc I got burnt out but prior to me taking break, I rarely ran into engineers n if I did I jus crush em (they didnt engineer optimally) I used mostly max to balanced bases. Im prob one of the rare few who thought war mm was overall good hence y u never c me complain here about my wars. (Than again due to circumstances we could only do 10 man wars n I was told most engineer clans don't war wit such a low body count) o btw: I too am from a super casual clan n im like u. Only one in clan who uses other tools to heighten my knowledge

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Originally Posted by JKL2207

They are primary prey based on what stats exactly? Do you have the stats and data to back up your claims or do you just have assumptions based on other's experience with the matchmaking? Have you warred with true casuals on a regular basis in the last 6 months? I have, not once did we bump into an engineered clan, was it their loss streak or negative win/loss ratio that came into play? Possibly but that never get's brought up when determining whether that is protection for casual clans, rather it's regularly brought up as "punishment" for those who go a on win streak.

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I gave you the reasoning, "most likely to be in the wider th spread mixed lineup". It's pretty well established fact that the bigger your th spread, the more likely you are to match engineers. I have not myself participated in a casual family and friends clan's war lately (unless I call my own clan that, but it's not typical for being mostly th11s so I won't), but I have been an observer visiting to that kind of war in other clans 4 times in the last 6 months. At one point we used include 3-5 th9 at the bottom of our own war lineup, but our matches were then as a result nearly all to engineers with 9.5s so we stopped taking 9s to war or into the clan as new members. Managing your roster that way isn't an option for most family and friends clans.

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Originally Posted by Playforwar

I'm in a very casual clan. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one in my clan to read anything from these forums, much less post a message. I can tell you that we have consistently (last couple of months) been matched with clans that have higher ths. We are tired of being hit by higher troops than we have available. Their bases are not easy either. They normally have some upgrades (teslas) also. I am your casual (very casual) player and I will not play with current mm. I only speak for one casual clan, but I'm sure we're not alone.

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30/30 "Tempa"maxed TH9, (very casual) player?? If you claim that, I wonder what your "casual" clan mates are like.

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Originally Posted by kimchilove

Wow really? I havent been warring lately bc I got burnt out but prior to me taking break, I rarely ran into engineers n if I did I jus crush em (they didnt engineer optimally) I used mostly max to balanced bases. Im prob one of the rare few who thought war mm was overall good hence y I never c me complain here about my wars. (Than again due to circumstances we could only do 10 man wars n I was told most engineer clans don't war wit such a low body count) o btw: I too am from a super casual clan n im like u. Only one in clan who uses other tools to heighten my knowledge

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Yep. 10 man wars are littered with engineers as well. That is what we normally run. MM didn't seem too bad until couple of moths ago. Now it it unplayable. It's good for folks to see real casuals would prefer to play without engineers.

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Originally Posted by Tomville

I gave you the reasoning, "most likely to be in the wider th spread mixed lineup". It's pretty well established fact that the bigger your th spread, the more likely you are to match engineers. I have not myself participated in a casual family and friends clan's war lately (unless I call my own clan that, but it's not typical for being mostly th11s so I won't), but I have been an observer visiting to that kind of war in other clans 4 times in the last 6 months. At one point we used include 3-5 th9 at the bottom of our own war lineup, but our matches were then as a result nearly all to engineers with 9.5s so we stopped taking 9s to war or into the clan as new members. Managing your roster that way isn't an option for most family and friends clans.

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I have been through enough casual clans to have experienced this, yet with the spread, we rarely faced engineered clans, rather we faced rushed clans and maxed clans. I threw in win streak, win/loss ratio because the clans I went to had very low wins compared with losses, if we are talking about true casuals again I am stating those that regularly leave TH9s and below uncleared. Not sure if that applies to your clan but it certainly applied to the ones I warred with.

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Originally Posted by JKL2207

30/30 "Tempa"maxed TH9, (very casual) player?? If you claim that, I wonder what your "casual" clan mates are like.

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I don't see as how his base progression says anything about hardcore vs casual. Max 9 and staying there for the present may simply be "playing this a long time just at my own speed, not feeling any rush to get bigger any faster, and I happen to be up to here where I'm happy sitting for a bit"