Engineering...after all my research... supercell is telling me ...

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Originally Posted by DBlaze

And what I'm saying is that I don't have any issues with any particular route you want to take. If you feel base optimizing is the way to go, then go for it. My question is why not have you face clans that are like minded? It's when your decision to optimize starts giving me consequences because I chose s diff route is when I take issue with it

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In boxing there is a rock, paper, scissors way strategy works. Each style has an advantage over one and a disadvantage over the other. I don't want to only face one style. To be one of the best you have to be able to beat all styles.

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Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit

If the same th with a maxed war army for that th yes you are correct bases that are not maxed are easier to take down. As I said any base progressing to max at their th is a manipulated base and as you said would be a joke to take down. This is why the often suggested maxer idea of matching th won't work.
Many want to MM to match maxers with maxers and engineers with engineers and rushed with rushed. I really don't like that idea, not because it takes away advantages but it takes away the complex challenge of creating a superior style of play. In boxing there are many different styles and it mostly becomes a rock, paper, scissors as to which is best. Each on has and advantage over one but a disadvantage to the other. The truly great boxers are able to overcome the disadvantage and defeat everyone. In the lighter weight classes boxers often fight up in weight that puts them at a disadvantage and the great ones win. When they lose do they blame the weight advantage? Nope they accept it and move on.
Life isn't fair and that is great news because it allows those who pay attention to get an advantage over 95% who just sleepwalk through life. Why should this game be any different?

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U r overgeneralizing word manipulated. Theres a difference bw ug in balanced way vs war optimize ug. As far as paying attention goes, yes I agree but y does paying attention only apply to manipulating ur bases to gain advantage in war? Y cant paying attention b practicing n tryin to perfect war style attacks of equal or higher th lvs? Y does paying attention have to b solely manipulating war mm to gain favorable matches instead of being able to outskill ur opponents offense/defense? Which replays get more admiration in terms of popularity? The replays of same th taking on same weight opponents/ higher or replays of higher th (in terms of offensive power)taking out lower ths?

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Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit

In boxing there is a rock, paper, scissors way strategy works. Each style has an advantage over one and a disadvantage over the other. I don't want to only face one style. To be one of the best you have to be able to beat all styles.

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Well, I've read your entire post, and I'm just not following the rock paper scissors to boxing comparison. I do finally agree with you on one point though. To be the best you have to beat the best at their level. To curb stomp a lower level is just not amusing to me, but to each his own.

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Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit

In boxing there is a rock, paper, scissors way strategy works. Each style has an advantage over one and a disadvantage over the other. I don't want to only face one style. To be one of the best you have to be able to beat all styles.

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To counter argue ur best comment. That comment is a bit out there no offense. Name me one engineer clan who can compete with a top war clan? In matter of fact, how many engineer clans r popular compared to clans who war in balanced manner? Y is that so? Hmmmm gm is only known bc of their war streak. Nothing else. In matter of fact, I personally never heard of them until I came here n saw their posts. I didnt know any "famous" engineer clans till I came here but defo heard of popular war clans in game. Y? Another question, which popular utubers have engineer wars as their content? Wonder what type of wars r usually featured tho. Question applies to sc also. What type of wars do they promote? Did they even mention any engineer clans? Lol in conclusion, yea wanting to b the best comment really doesnt apply here does it? Maybe best in engineer world perhaps

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Originally Posted by Playforwar

Well, I've read your entire post, and I'm just not following the rock paper scissors to boxing comparison. I do finally agree with you on one point though. To be the best you have to beat the best at their level. To curb stomp a lower level is just not amusing to me, but to each his own.

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Then you must have a problem with the current game balance at TH10 and TH11. In CWL, the best strategy for the game as it is balanced right now (with maxer-ish bases) is TH11vTH10 and TH10vTH11. Only the spare TH10 attacks get to attack at their own level.

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Originally Posted by Sservis

Then you must have a problem with the current game balance at TH10 and TH11. In CWL, the best strategy for the game as it is balanced right now (with maxer-ish bases) is TH11vTH10 and TH10vTH11. Only the spare TH10 attacks get to attack at their own level.

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Good point.

I'm not trying to put words into the member's post that you responded to, but what I think the intent of the comment was the advantage engineers get by getting extra high level attacks. Once battle day starts, it doesn't matter how you use those attacks, since that is pat of clan war strategy. What many have an issue with is the strategy a clan uses prior to battle day starting, to get an advantage.

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Originally Posted by Playforwar

Well, I've read your entire post, and I'm just not following the rock paper scissors to boxing comparison. I do finally agree with you on one point though. To be the best you have to beat the best at their level. To curb stomp a lower level is just not amusing to me, but to each his own.

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I will go into more detail on the rock paper sissors when i have more time. As to the curb stomp because i tend to stay toward the middle in weight of a th and my offense is similar to defense i avoid most lopsided bases and match more in my own th. Sc did say the more lopsided you are the more likely you are to face lopsided bases.
So in reality i tend to match how many maxers want without the interference SC.

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Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit

In boxing there is a rock, paper, scissors way strategy works. Each style has an advantage over one and a disadvantage over the other. I don't want to only face one style. To be one of the best you have to be able to beat all styles.

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But in a true system engineering would never beat maxing (especially because it wouldn't exist for the most part). Engineers would consistently be scissors getting smashed by rocks. The only reason engineering even works is because it takes advantage of the match making system. It's like a machine doing weigh ins. All it can see is the weight number. It does not actually look to see if the boxer has both feet on the scale or just one. The only thing engineers could potentially be the best at is engineering, and the Martians have set an extremely high bar.

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Originally Posted by Sservis

Then you must have a problem with the current game balance at TH10 and TH11. In CWL, the best strategy for the game as it is balanced right now (with maxer-ish bases) is TH11vTH10 and TH10vTH11. Only the spare TH10 attacks get to attack at their own level.

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CWL is scissor vs scissor. There is no paper or rocks. Wars are balanced and each side used the same strategy but the side with the sharpest scissors wins.

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Originally Posted by JFSoul

Good point.

I'm not trying to put words into the member's post that you responded to, but what I think the intent of the comment was the advantage engineers get by getting extra high level attacks. Once battle day starts, it doesn't matter how you use those attacks, since that is pat of clan war strategy. What many have an issue with is the strategy a clan uses prior to battle day starting, to get an advantage.

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Minor clarification and a point directed at the general anti-engineer sentiment (not you, but you prompted me to think of it).

I think the discussion isn't about prior to battle day. It's about prior to prep day.

That said, every serious clan has requirements about who they'll put in their spin. The logical conclusion of eliminating engineering's impact on the prior to prep day conversation (with an amazing matchmaker that's perfect!) would be to completely eliminate the need for any sort of requirements about who is put into a spin.

Certain things like Heros up for battle day (if needed), good attackers and base designs would persist, but the requirements for 20/20 at TH9 would be moot. 10/10 wouldn't hurt you if the matchmaker were the idealized perfection.

This is the point that a lot of anti-engineers miss. If the matchmaker is perfect, there is no point to clan account requirements as it pertains to battle day.

Note that some clan requirements work as a filter for seriousness or dedication (minimum donations, minimum heros even) and those requirements are often a proxy for factors that matter. However, the actual items that are the proxy aren't important. (so 10/10 is just as good as 20/20 with the same player for a clan, although the types of players with 20/20 are different than the types of players with 10/10, so have to be careful of selection effects)

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Originally Posted by SuperStorm103

But in a true system engineering would never beat maxing. Engineers would consistently be scissors getting smashed by rocks. The only reason engineering even works is because it takes advantage of the match making system. It's like a machine doing weigh ins. All it can see is the weight number. It does not actually look to see if the boxer has both feet on the scale or just one. The only thing engineers could potentially be the best at is engineering, and the Martians have set an extremely high bar.



CWL is scissor vs scissor. There is no paper or rocks. Wars are balanced and each side used the same strategy but the side with the sharpest scissors wins.

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On a th weight basis yes engineers would lose to maxers however the colser one get to maxed the increased chance of getting matched with the th above. And if the th above has the advantage. When to upgrade to avoid this adds to the complexity of the game.
That is one of the reasons i dont the mm is far off. Not perfect but not bad either.
To go back to boxing and the weigh in the maxer is fighting at their true weight while the engineer cuts weight for the weigh in and is heavier come fight day (common practice in fighting sports)
Yes you are right about cwl it is only one style.
3 main styles of boxing. Outside, brawler, inside
Outside beats brawler, brawler beats inside, inside beats outside.