Clan War Matchmaking Improvements

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Originally Posted by VickyAdok

I find no issues getting matched against engineered bases. If my opponent has an advantage on offence, I would have an advantage for his low defence as well. Players complaining about engineered bases with level 1 cannons n level 45/45/20 heroes Please don't say you couldn't 3 star that base.  My clan has been matched against engineered clans. We won some, we lost some.
I suggest SC should implement a system similar to BH where players MUST have all their defences (with specific minimum defence levels per TH level) before they can move to the next TH. Don't let players with engineered bases participate in wars until they meet the requirements. This will definitely prevent Engineering. BH is the best example we have.

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You surely haven't been burned yet to begin hating engineered accounts.What about the case when you are the top th10 nearly max and your enemy is a th11 with no artillery but level 1 inferno towers and the rest of defenses max level for th11 and on offense he has max heroes includin warden and max dark troops.Now on u attack good luck 3 starring him and on his attack cross the fingers and pray for 99% because of time issue than next time you wont like warring against this types of foes.

Yeah so pretty vague announcement here, but I understand you actually can't state the actual MM specifics and that's okay. Being optimistic I think something will be better but on that note it hasn't exactly been fairyland for the last few days, seems the MM reached a new low

It's funny how people think that the matchmaking has to be a secret. If the town halls were weighted heavily in matchmaking, there would not need to be any secrets. Say that the war weight of any th level will be at least the mid range level of the town hall below it, regardless of what is upgraded defensively or offensively. This takes any significant engineering off the table. Then just make every point defense 100 points, every splash 400, infernos 2500, and the eagle 7000 (or whatever). Everybody knows, everybody plays by the same rules... problem solved. If the war weights were easy public knowledge, then it's just part of the game. Keeping them semi secret makes it easier for people to game the system. Put the data right on the info page of the defense (or offense). That way if you want to build defenses in a fashion that helps your war weight, you can, but you can't really do too much, since most of the war weight is based on your th level.

Easy peasy...

♥♥♥♥ at all these clans saying they dont run engineering clans, but have .5s. You're trying to take advantage of matchmaking, the other team just did it better.

This is my current war, check the opponent they are engineers!
#yc0u8ur9 = metal knights

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Originally Posted by darian[supercell]

hey clashers,

as we have said in the past, one of our most important goals in matchmaking for clan wars is to ensure that each clan is more evenly matched against the other. While we have made changes and updates to our matchmaking algorithm over time, we also understand much more needed to be done to provide an enjoyable war experience while preventing one clan from having a major advantage over the other.

we wanted to share with you that we are making improvements to how the algorithm functions in order to address “engineered bases” in the matchmaking feature. This new functionality will take more into account as far as “total weight” is concerned with regards to both defense and offense. What this means for you is that your clan will be more evenly matched against other clans that have similar builds.

one of the challenges in creating a matchmaking system is to allow players to retain their creativity in their base design and play style. We wanted to make sure that your strategies are not invalidated; just more evenly matched against others who share your play style. Our improved algorithm is an evolutionary step in making sure clans will be matched more frequently against opponents of equivalent difficulty. Furthermore, we have also built in a certain degree of flexibility into the new system that allows us to fine tune the matchmaking weights as needed. This will allow us to monitor the matchmaking, make changes if we feel the weights are either too heavy or not heavy enough.

the matchmaking algorithm is still currently in development and is slated for a near-future release! But we wanted to make sure we communicated this to you all and let you know that ensuring an enjoyable clan war is just as important to us as it is to you.


clash on!

the clash of clans team

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Originally Posted by Darian[Supercell]

Hey Clashers,

As we have said in the past, one of our most important goals in matchmaking for Clan Wars is to ensure that each Clan is more evenly matched against the other. While we have made changes and updates to our matchmaking algorithm over time, we also understand much more needed to be done to provide an enjoyable War experience while preventing one Clan from having a major advantage over the other.

We wanted to share with you that we are making improvements to how the algorithm functions in order to address “engineered bases” in the matchmaking feature. This new functionality will take more into account as far as “total weight” is concerned with regards to both defense and offense. What this means for you is that your Clan will be more evenly matched against other Clans that have similar builds.

One of the challenges in creating a matchmaking system is to allow players to retain their creativity in their base design and play style. We wanted to make sure that your strategies are not invalidated; just more evenly matched against others who share your play style. Our improved algorithm is an evolutionary step in making sure Clans will be matched more frequently against opponents of equivalent difficulty. Furthermore, we have also built in a certain degree of flexibility into the new system that allows us to fine tune the matchmaking weights as needed. This will allow us to monitor the matchmaking, make changes if we feel the weights are either too heavy or not heavy enough.

The matchmaking algorithm is still currently in development and is slated for a near-future release! But we wanted to make sure we communicated this to you all and let you know that ensuring an enjoyable Clan War is just as important to us as it is to you.


Clash On!

The Clash of Clans Team

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I am really sorry Darien but I have absolutely no faith in SC developers ability to fix this problem. At the end of the day an algorithm should reward attack and base design skill coupled with superior team work.

i don't think a "total weight" approach will necessarily fix "rostered engineering" either. Smart clans will take away their weight at the bottom of the line up to get an advantage up top.

I don't blame SC for having difficulty with this because there are so many different offensive and defensive parameters (with a vast variety in levels etc) but it does become disheartening when a clan loses because the opponent has more attacks to cover for their failed attacks rather than them possessing superior attack skill.

Obviously, my clan has been on the advantaged and disadvantaged side of the mm so this isn't a whinge but merely my thoughts on the issue. Recently, we have had two nail biting wars that have come down to a small percentage. We ended up on both sides of the win/loss. Imagine how many more players would be into this game if this scenario was the rule rather than the exception.

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Originally Posted by Darian[Supercell]

Hey Clashers,

As we have said in the past, one of our most important goals in matchmaking for Clan Wars is to ensure that each Clan is more evenly matched against the other. While we have made changes and updates to our matchmaking algorithm over time, we also understand much more needed to be done to provide an enjoyable War experience whilepreventing one Clan from having amajor advantage over the other.


The Clash of Clans Team

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If any of this was true, then why is modding rampant with zero to no consequences? Why are there such blatantly open and obvious loop holes available for those willing and able to vehemently violate TOS? We only lose to modding clans it seems, they exit clan to a burner clan, build our bases and sandbox with th3 burner accounts, and there is nothing that can be done about that? So you really think the most unfair war disadvantage clans face is the way their opponent chooses to build defences vs offences? Honestly all this update is going to do is push more people into modding. Its safe, easy and literally has zero consequences if done properly. The real question is, why does Supercell willingly turn a blind eye to open modding now? We have sent images, videos etc of clear and abundant proof our enemy is modding and nothing ever gets done, we are actually at the point where SC help and support doesn't even both replying anymore despite hard facts and concrete evidence. SO my question to you, is what is Supercells plan to prevent modding? Mark my words, killing engineering will only increase modding numbers. If anybody needs their very own league its not engineers so much as modders ....

As much as I dislike engineer and we use engineer to defeat engineer, there so much $$$ to be made that I doubt SC will ever want to hurt engineer base.

Think about the mass amount of money it takes to make a defenseless account, that's money in their pocket!


its never about the customer, it's always about the income.

the best way to fix engineer is to change the MM logic

(a) to be based on TH and not war weight

or
(b)
defense:

make walls have incredible weight (sick and tired of engineer clan from china with max walls but th8 defense)
make AD have higher weight (sick and tired of engineer clan abusing the weight of AD with the other defense being th8)
Make archer tower, tesla, and cannon have higher weight (again these clan are abusing their war weight)

Offense:
adding warden should make you automatic placed in th11 minimum weight regardless of defense (why in the world would a th10 and under need a warden?)
Adding aq should place you in th9 minimum weight regardless of defense
Adding bk should place you in th7 minimum weight regardless of defense
any upgrade to troop level that's the lv of the new th your at should put you in that th minimum war weight
-this solves the "why would a th11 need a lv4 hound /lv7 loon against a th9 or a th10?)


Or
(c) do nothing but say you would so you can make people falsely happy while milking them for more $$$

Clan war was and still is only thing exciting about clash. Now I don't care much about clan war. It's getting old after all these years. We, as players, need something new like a tournament, or some kind of new mode to play a game.

After playing many online games over the years starting with Ultima Online in 1999, I've learned that the effort companies put into trying to convince you that an update/change isn't going to suck is directly proportional to how much it actually WILL suck. Fortunately, so far it looks like Supercell has only brushed that surface.

As far as whether or not a change is necessary, I believe the answer is no. If having a base specifically engineered to be low ranked but hard-hitting in clan wars was a guarantee that the clan it belongs to would win, the answer would be yes. But it isn't. Far from it, actually. My clan has defeated plenty of other clans with engineered bases and we've lost clan wars with our own engineered base. Because there are so many other factors involved - whether or not everyone uses both attacks, whether or not everyone is actually good at attacking, whether or not their defenses are solid, et cetera. In the same way that some Builder Bases have very advanced troops and defenses but low trophies because the player behind the base just isn't good at the game, the owner of an engineered base can blow their attacks because they just aren't good, and I've seen it.

If having a base specifically engineered to be low ranked but hard-hitting in clan wars only had perks and had no drawbacks, the answer would be yes. But that's not the case. The fact is that because these bases have little defense, they're easily curb-stomped in normal everyday attacks and the base owner is constantly trying to recover lost loot and then add more to it. It's a lot of work and requires a lot of time and diligence. In this discussion of changing the game with regard to engineered bases, the plan is to weaken the positive points and leave the negative aspects as they are. That sounds like a pretty bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Sdunker

After playing many online games over the years starting with Ultima Online in 1999, I've learned that the effort companies put into trying to convince you that an update/change isn't going to suck is directly proportional to how much it actually WILL suck. Fortunately, so far it looks like Supercell has only brushed that surface.

As far as whether or not a change is necessary, I believe the answer is no. If having a base specifically engineered to be low ranked but hard-hitting in clan wars was a guarantee that the clan it belongs to would win, the answer would be yes. But it isn't. Far from it, actually. My clan has defeated plenty of other clans with engineered bases and we've lost clan wars with our own engineered base. Because there are so many other factors involved - whether or not everyone uses both attacks, whether or not everyone is actually good at attacking, whether or not their defenses are solid, et cetera. In the same way that some Builder Bases have very advanced troops and defenses but low trophies because the player behind the base just isn't good at the game, the owner of an engineered base can blow their attacks because they just aren't good, and I've seen it.

If having a base specifically engineered to be low ranked but hard-hitting in clan wars only had perks and had no drawbacks, the answer would be yes. But that's not the case. The fact is that because these bases have little defense, they're easily curb-stomped in normal everyday attacks and the base owner is constantly trying to recover lost loot and then add more to it. It's a lot of work and requires a lot of time and diligence. In this discussion of changing the game with regard to engineered bases, the plan is to weaken the positive points and leave the negative aspects as they are. That sounds like a pretty bad idea.

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So you think that a poor engineer with TH11 troops has soo much problems recovering loot cause he is stomped every day?

Let's say they get him 100% every 20 hours (if he is titan1 or legend for example). He losses 450k of each. All he has to do to recover the lost loot and even get more is attack ONCE in 4 hour guard he has. If he attacks 4 times during the guard he will have profit of at least 1-2 million of each everyday. Everyone who think that an engineers have a tough life are quite wrong. An active player will have almost 0 trouble to maintain engineered base. With 4 attacks he might even recover trophies as well.

ULTIMA ONLINE WAS AWESOME,,,,!,!,

Literally played for years.

Me personally i think the war weight should be to do with the laboratory level not the townhall level (minimum level which increased after a troop upgrade)
this gives it alittle flip as defence will be more important to get an advantage.

I have both engineered and none enginnered account. If becomes to much of a problem i will just leave the engineered base and not play it. Just like others in my clan. Dont have time to max other account

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Originally Posted by clashwarclans

I am all up for matchmaking being addressed but I think the bigger issue is the fact that if you come across a clan with 1 more max th11 with EA in the lineup, you will almost certainly lose by 1 star whether you are engineered or not and that is a bigger problem than engineering.

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Not true, we recently faced a clan with two (near) max 11's a mid 11 and a low 11 (all with eagles) 3 10's and the rest max to near max 9's (15 v 15). We have one (near) max 11 a mid 11 that hasn't built eagle yet (just following builder suggestions and amazingly it hasn't popped up yet probably because of the reduced cost of AT and cannons) and a brand new 11 that was a max 10 (with a lvl 1 warden) and hasn't built eagle yet and a near max 10, 3 10.5s and the rest max to near max 9's. We pulled 11 stars out of their top 4, they only pulled 8 thanks to a couple 1-stars against our top bases and a couple repeat attacks. we won 44-36. In case you didn't keep track they had 7 th10+ with three eagles and we had 7 th10+ with one eagle, yet we came out on top.

@Darian - Any update on this? Or is this just like usual where SC announces something and we all just left to guess what is next?

https://forum-content.supercell.com/...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Darian[Supercell] https://forum-content.supercell.com/...post-right.png

We're actually getting our first Taco Bell in Helsinki soon! I. Cannot. Wait. It's no In N Out, but I'll take Taco Bell in the interim.

Like many companies in the region, July is a period where quite a few people take hard-earned time off, but not everyone (I'm still here). So we are still working on various projects both in-game and out of the game. We have some changes to the Clan War matchmaking system coming up pretty soon so keep an eye out for an announcement on that over the next several days.

In-game content-wise, we have a few things on the horizon for both the TH and the BB, but all in due time, my friends.

Was this the announcement of the announcement of nothing or what does pretty soon mean?

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Originally Posted by MenionLeah

So you think that a poor engineer with TH11 troops has soo much problems recovering loot cause he is stomped every day?

Let's say they get him 100% every 20 hours (if he is titan1 or legend for example). He losses 450k of each. All he has to do to recover the lost loot and even get more is attack ONCE in 4 hour guard he has. If he attacks 4 times during the guard he will have profit of at least 1-2 million of each everyday. Everyone who think that an engineers have a tough life are quite wrong. An active player will have almost 0 trouble to maintain engineered base. With 4 attacks he might even recover trophies as well.

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What you did there was took what I said, made it into something I didn't say, and then tried to attribute it back to me.

First - there are plenty of engineered bases that aren't maxed TH11 troops and titan/legend trophies. In fact, I've only ever personally encountered one that was. I'm sure there are more out there but using only the most extreme examples makes a poor point. I am discussing the average engineered base experience across all levels, not citing the least nor the greatest example.

Second, in my experience, unless you want to sit there searching and searching for a long time for a whale of an abandoned account loaded with loot, it takes two attacks to recover and gain on the loss from a 100% defeat.

Third - Your explanation of attacking four times during a shield might be correct - it can be hugely profitable and more than recover losses but here's the thing - that is at least just as true for non-engineered bases and often even more so. Because while the engineered base basically consigns itself to being totally or near-totally destroyed every time, the traditional base will often get a big shield without suffering max losses. They will mitigate their losses of whatever resource is most valuable to them - usually elixir and dark - by placing it near the center and near the best defenses. So they'll often take 42% losses, preserve most of the resources that really matter to them, and get the same opportunity to attack under shields that the engineered bases have.

Fourth - Engineered bases will suffer greater losses than regular bases much more frequently and therefore spend more of their attack time recovering losses before they can start actually gaining loot. It's not "hard" but attacking successfully several times during a shield does require time and diligence, which is what I really said - not "a poor engineer with TH11 troops has soo much problems recovering loot cause he is stomped every day".

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Originally Posted by Rephren

ULTIMA ONLINE WAS AWESOME,,,,!,!,

Literally played for years.

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Same here haha. 0 mana suits ftw!

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Originally Posted by rurunix

Think about the mass amount of money it takes to make a defenseless account, that's money in their pocket!

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This is a myth

I have a clanmate who has a defenseless TH11 with 15/16/11 heroes
Hasn't spent a cent

Plenty of others have decent defenseless accounts without having gemmed them

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Originally Posted by TGA1

Clan war was and still is only thing exciting about clash (to you). Now I don't care much about clan war. It's getting old after all these years. We, as players, need something new like a tournament, or some kind of new mode to play a game.

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This is opinion, sorry.
I quite like farming, and the game had MILLIONS of players before war even existed.

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Originally Posted by MenionLeah

Let's say they get him 100% every 20 hours (if he is titan1 or legend for example). He losses 450k of each. All he has to do to recover the lost loot and even get more is attack ONCE in 4 hour guard he has. If he attacks 4 times during the guard he will have profit of at least 1-2 million of each everyday. Everyone who think that an engineers have a tough life are quite wrong. An active player will have almost 0 trouble to maintain engineered base. With 4 attacks he might even recover trophies as well.

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A defenseless base is sometimes stomped every half not once every day.
If you don't deploy 30% of an army you don't give them a shield regardless of if you three star them.
They're not losing a defenses once every 20 hours, you're just wrong.

Not sure if this has dropped but our latest pairing is the heaviest we have ever seen. We are running a th 11 max no infernos or eagle, and 3 th10s no infernos as our top 4. The opposing clan has a th11 with eagle and lvl 3 inferno and 3 th10 with infernos. That's an eagle and 8 infernos to our 0 ...... 20 v 20 max nines run down to 10 and 8s to th6 to the bottom on both sides. We do have a th 10 minimax at 19. Has the weight changed for these top tier defences?

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Originally Posted by Sdunker

What you did there was took what I said, made it into something I didn't say, and then tried to attribute it back to me.

First - there are plenty of engineered bases that aren't maxed TH11 troops and titan/legend trophies. In fact, I've only ever personally encountered one that was. I'm sure there are more out there but using only the most extreme examples makes a poor point. I am discussing the average engineered base experience across all levels, not citing the least nor the greatest example.

Second, in my experience, unless you want to sit there searching and searching for a long time for a whale of an abandoned account loaded with loot, it takes two attacks to recover and gain on the loss from a 100% defeat.

Third - Your explanation of attacking four times during a shield might be correct - it can be hugely profitable and more than recover losses but here's the thing - that is at least just as true for non-engineered bases and often even more so. Because while the engineered base basically consigns itself to being totally or near-totally destroyed every time, the traditional base will often get a big shield without suffering max losses. They will mitigate their losses of whatever resource is most valuable to them - usually elixir and dark - by placing it near the center and near the best defenses. So they'll often take 42% losses, preserve most of the resources that really matter to them, and get the same opportunity to attack under shields that the engineered bases have.

Fourth - Engineered bases will suffer greater losses than regular bases much more frequently and therefore spend more of their attack time recovering losses before they can start actually gaining loot. It's not "hard" but attacking successfully several times during a shield does require time and diligence, which is what I really said - not "a poor engineer with TH11 troops has soo much problems recovering loot cause he is stomped every day".

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I went back to re read your previous post thinking that I probably missed something. But I am still seeing the same. You are against any changes to MM because being an engineer has its drawbacks. And as one of those you are mentioning is retaining the loot. Basically you are justifying the engineer having an advantage in war because he has a tougher life in MP. I just gave you an example that is not the case but it doesn't have to be TH11, it applies to every TH lower and in most of the leagues (with slight differences in VG time and league bonus and troops used and number of attacks). Any active engineer with adequate troops for his TH level will have no problem gaining back the lost loot in no time. Of course CASUAL engineers will have little more problems, but that also applies even to maxer casual players since TH11 update and removal of TH sniping.

I will get back to extreme example(as you say) in highest leagues and highest THs where the benefits are biggest but also losses are biggest as well.
Engineered TH11 gives 450k of each (as I mentioned), loot cart is 20% (90k), which means he lose max of 360k of gold and elixir every attack.
Lets say a regular max TH11 being attaked for around 60% average one or two stars in highest leagues (it is not an accurate percentage sometimes is lower sometimes is higher, but at least a higher percentage one star is quite a norm there). That means that he will lose 270k of elixir and gold each. Deduct the loot cart and it is 216k loss for him. So the difference is 146k per attack between a maxer and an engineer, not much isn't it? And lower the TH level difference will be also lower.

But lets see another side: a maxer is in a maxer clan and losses against engineers. Instead of gaining war bonus (for example) 1M of each he will get only 300K. Engineer is in an engineered clan and wins against maxer clan. He gets 1M war bonus every 2 days. That is 700k total of each or a 350k per day more than a maxer. Even if engineer gets attacked every 12 hours in MP the difference in stolen loot from the maxer is 146x2=292k per day and as you saw he makes 350k per day more than a maxers from wars, which puts him in a total gain of 68k over the maxer.

So, it is quite a misconception that engineers have a tougher life, on a contrary simple math shows that they have an easier one.

And last but not least back to your thought that having an engineered account and a clan doesn't mean a guaranteed win and that is why there should not be any changes. Yes, it doesn't give them a guaranteed win but it gives them a guaranteed starting advantage, which is exactly why there are so many complains. And whether the engineers will capitalize on their advantage and win or not has no merit in the subject.

I doubt that are many who wants engineers to be banned or removed, they all just want their starting advantage to be removed.

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Originally Posted by PhilISuppose

A defenseless base is sometimes stomped every half not once every day.
If you don't deploy 30% of an army you don't give them a shield regardless of if you three star them.
They're not losing a defenses once every 20 hours, you're just wrong.

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10 months ago I had a defenseless TH9. It had 248 defense wins sitting in masters and crystal all the time. We had a few of those in our clan before october update and after that we decided to go the maxer route. Now it is maxed (except walls) and believe it or not has only 2 more defenses since (although it is in champs 2 and 3 now). Same player with barch or goblins or something will push next on a max base, but will attack defenseless one for sure. I had experienced only a few attacks that ended with a less than 30% deployment and some of them were even defense wins.
There are ways to protect defenseless bases for at least 30% troop deployment, certain designs, hidden teslas, traps, heroes, solid CC.

TL;DR if SC will improve matchmaking..any idea if troop lvl vs troop lvl will be the basis is possible for pairing regardless the TH lvl you are or there is a possibility you could be placed automatically at any order on the war map..i.e.. last war you're #1 then this war you are already #8 caused you are paired with same level of troops due to engineered base enemy...
TIA

Has there been any more communication from Darian on this matter?

Or was this just a delay tactic to quell the anti-engineer storm?

Did these "improvements" actually take effect yet? 2 hrs search last night with no match found and going on 2.5 hrs tonight.

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Originally Posted by SplashBuzz

Did these "improvements" actually take effect yet? 2 hrs search last night with no match found and going on 2.5 hrs tonight.

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Looks like you have someone with TH12 war weight in your war map.
2.5 hours of war search is crazy.
😂😂

An interview with Darian offering further insight into the upcoming matchmaking changes is available here :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qei_m6cL5mM

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Originally Posted by Skrags

An interview with Darian offering further insight into the upcoming matchmaking changes is available here :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qei_m6cL5mM

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Just saw it, it kinda proved my suspicions that it is going to be only a tweak in current algorithm. Well, engineers have nothing to fear, they will only have to engineer bit more and a bit different and some will fit in immediately.

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Originally Posted by Skrags

An interview with Darian offering further insight into the upcoming matchmaking changes is available here :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qei_m6cL5mM

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Nice

10char

It was an insightful interview. Seems as if many on forum have got carried away expecting a full on, game changing update & overnight match making will be perfect. Not gonna happen. By the sounds of things the meaning of this thread was more to communicate general direction of game rather than announcing anything spectacular. There have been communication issues in the past between SC & the community. Off the back of that interview, sounds like Darian was recruited to rectify that and doing a good job so far. We, as a forum need to stop turning everything into a debate & just let them communicate "stuff" without blowing everything out of proportion. The more often Community managers communicate the less fuss that will be made about every last word. = Keep talking Community Managers & chill out forum.

There is no such thing as a perfect algorithm unless of course you have two clans that contain nothing but maxed out th11s or something like this. Given that there is no perfect algorithm, any matchmaking algorithm will favor certain type of bases. Those type of bases are not necessiarly the natural progression of bases. Some are so much addicted to winning and to winning easy to the extent they would go the extra mile to construct a base that is favored by the algorithm. This is not the fault of supercell. This is a direct consequence of this genre of game. I know few people who like to be matched against equal or stronger opponent. The majority of people i know like to be matched against a weaker opponent. We are not an engineering clan in anyway. In rare occasions, we get matched matched with weaker opponent. When this happens, the whole clan rejoices. Why? Because both clans can't win. One has to win and one has to lose. It is more fun to win and it is not fun to lose.

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Originally Posted by PhilISuppose

This is a myth

I have a clanmate who has a defenseless TH11 with 15/16/11 heroes
Hasn't spent a cent

Plenty of others have decent defenseless accounts without having gemmed them

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I agree. If you are willing to spend a lot of time farming and don't care how long it takes, you don't need to spend gems to make a great engineered account or maxed out account. If you want to do either one quickly, there are plenty of opportunities to spend gems.

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Originally Posted by Dibbs12345

It was an insightful interview. Seems as if many on forum have got carried away expecting a full on, game changing update & overnight match making will be perfect. Not gonna happen. By the sounds of things the meaning of this thread was more to communicate general direction of game rather than announcing anything spectacular. There have been communication issues in the past between SC & the community. Off the back of that interview, sounds like Darian was recruited to rectify that and doing a good job so far. We, as a forum need to stop turning everything into a debate & just let them communicate "stuff" without blowing everything out of proportion. The more often Community managers communicate the less fuss that will be made about every last word. = Keep talking Community Managers & chill out forum.

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Overnight? lol engineered base complaints and a request for a fix has been around for years.

I'm happy to see changes being made and offense being factored into the matchmaking. That will definitely help reduce extremely lopsided matchups.

After hearing that total offensive and defensive weights for each war roster will be the matchmaking criteria and little, if anything, about individual base weights being factored in, expect there still to be significant advantages from roster engineering. Having just one more TH11 with max offense than your opponent offers an instant advantage since offense gets two attack attempts, and we all know how easy it is for a TH11 to dip and take a max 10 compared to seeing a max 10 try to triple a max 10.

My "general" prediction when it comes to "deeming a match" is we will see two to three more TH11s versus two to three times as many. An improvement? Yes. Perfect match? No.

One nice thing I've noticed in my clan over recent months is that the advantage that engineered rosters and bases significantly diminishes as your top bases approach and progress through Th11. While it is frustrating that our well designed, mature TH10s fall to the engineered 11 in a skilled attacker's hand, they still can't beat our 11s . . . and that's been the difference in wars. So my advice to you is have some carefully designed and well defended Th11s in your lineup.

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Originally Posted by Jrod55426

One nice thing I've noticed in my clan over recent months is that the advantage that engineered rosters and bases significantly diminishes as your top bases approach and progress through Th11. While it is frustrating that our well designed, mature TH10s fall to the engineered 11 in a skilled attacker's hand, they still can't beat our 11s . . . and that's been the difference in wars. So my advice to you is have some carefully designed and well defended Th11s in your lineup.

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This seems to be true for us too, we have a couple (sometimes 3) max hero, near max defense TH11s at the top.
With a TH9/10/11 split more often than not we have better Th11s than them
(it helps, but isn't a sure fire win of course - you don't need to max heroes to two star TH11s or three star TH10s...)

Not sure if the change is in effect but last 3 wars have been a tough match up for us.

2 11, 2 10, rest 9's top 4 bases max hero

Them 3 11, 2 10 mid 20's low 30's heros rest 9's

Current... past 3 very similar

By no means is it terrible but it's 3 matches in a row we got the short end of the stick.

All full bases no .5, engineered, etc..

We don't have the people for all 10, or 11 wars and don't want to leave our old timers out . Need to make a change though lost last 3 and there is unrest amongst the people of the clan.

Are hero levels weighing that much now?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by porky1122

Has there been any more communication from Darian on this matter?

Or was this just a delay tactic to quell the anti-engineer storm?

---

I honestly don't expect any changes in war matchmaking for the next couple of months at the earliest. SC is slower than molasses in winter when it comes to making changes. Supercell's definition of "soon" doesn't exactly match up with the rest of the worlds definition.

We appreciate the effort. I know my clan, Texas Lights, is very frustrated. Comming from a 5 th11 vs 1 to a 3 eagle th11 to 1 wars recently, but very bad matchup as a general. We are consistently at a disadvantage. With gross in equality in war strength.

Thank you Darian! Great to hear of a change finally for Clan War Matchmaking. :thumbsup:

One thing I have wondered about this sticky is why it doesn't appear in the clan war sub-forum... You would think it's probably the most relevant spot in the forum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JKL2207

One thing I have wondered about this sticky is why it doesn't appear in the clan war sub-forum... You would think it's probably the most relevant spot in the forum.

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Lol....good point. Guess only if you or i started the thread 😂😂😂😂

We are a level 13 clan with 347 war wins, so a pretty solid group. We just warred a level 6 clan with a 24 win streak. Thats ok, we have lost before and do not expect to win them all. The enemy got a perfect war on us, all 1st attacks. This doesnt bother us, kudos to them. What does bother us is that they had 18 th 11s out of 20 all of which had max troops and moderate defenses. We had 1 th11, 3 th10's, 2 th 7's, 5 th8's, the rest th9. All of theirs were maxed troops. So as you can imagine it wasn't much fun. We love a good war, but this is kinda wacky. So please SC come up with some better matchmaking magic!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reefus

Same here haha. 0 mana suits ftw!

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Haha yeah, I played since 99. It was amazing.I'd play it again, just for the nostalgia

Change must have been made, we've been trying to get a war for over a day now...can't get a match

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brandon122

Change must have been made, we've been trying to get a war for over a day now...can't get a match

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How long are you letting your search run before restarting it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Troythethird

We are a level 13 clan with 347 war wins, so a pretty solid group. We just warred a level 6 clan with a 24 win streak. Thats ok, we have lost before and do not expect to win them all. The enemy got a perfect war on us, all 1st attacks. This doesnt bother us, kudos to them. What does bother us is that they had 18 th 11s out of 20 all of which had max troops and moderate defenses. We had 1 th11, 3 th10's, 2 th 7's, 5 th8's, the rest th9. All of theirs were maxed troops. So as you can imagine it wasn't much fun. We love a good war, but this is kinda wacky. So please SC come up with some better matchmaking magic!

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Wadda!! This is just crazy..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Troythethird

We are a level 13 clan with 347 war wins, so a pretty solid group. We just warred a level 6 clan with a 24 win streak. Thats ok, we have lost before and do not expect to win them all. The enemy got a perfect war on us, all 1st attacks. This doesnt bother us, kudos to them. What does bother us is that they had 18 th 11s out of 20 all of which had max troops and moderate defenses. We had 1 th11, 3 th10's, 2 th 7's, 5 th8's, the rest th9. All of theirs were maxed troops. So as you can imagine it wasn't much fun. We love a good war, but this is kinda wacky. So please SC come up with some better matchmaking magic!

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We found yesterday an absolutely crazy match. We are 5:10s (with infernos but only 1 maxed), a couple of 9.5s and a new 10.5 vs 9 engineered 11s with max troops and almost max heroes and his n1 is maxed th10 with EA and fully troops and heroes.
An absolutely mismatched war and absolutely waste of time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CiroII

We found yesterday an absolutely crazy match. We are 5:10s (with infernos but only 1 maxed), a couple of 9.5s and a new 10.5 vs 9 engineered 11s with max troops and almost max heroes and his n1 is maxed th10 with EA and fully troops and heroes.
An absolutely mismatched war and absolutely waste of time.

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So in other words, in a 10v war you have 5 potentially lopsided bases and your upset because you matched with a clan that has 9?

30 minutes approximately, whoever starts war is in charge of timing. Never excessive

Always thought 15 minutes was sweet spot. Always reset after half an hour

I'll be honest, I'm disappointed with the interview with clash with Ash. SC makes it clear there's a problem with engineered bases and that they are exploiting mm system. Instead of trying to rid them, they're being accepted. The new approach of 50/50, defense/troops, while maintaining 'total clan weight' vs 'total clan weight' will continue to allow mismatches and breed new Engineered bases.

Why not simply match th vs th* lvl.

So much for hope.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cnaf

So in other words, in a 10v war you have 5 potentially lopsided bases and your upset because you matched with a clan that has 9?

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No, I'm talking about the top of the rooster out of 25. Don,t compare a .5 recently upgraded with a extremely lopsided base. Our th9s have as mirror extremely powerful 11 with no defence but enough attack power to beat our top.

SC is approaching the problem in a wrong way. Adding troop weights to matchmaking isn't going to solve this. The engineered bases don't develop all their troops. They have just two or three maxed troops and max heroes. So, a th11 engineer will be matched to a th9 in weight.

Here is an option, make the engineers ineligible for war selection. You need to have some level of defences in the base to be eligible for war. This will force them to build defences. Once they have defences, they can be better matched in war.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by freezerclasher

SC is approaching the problem in a wrong way. Adding troop weights to matchmaking isn't going to solve this. The engineered bases don't develop all their troops. They have just two or three maxed troops and max heroes. So, a th11 engineer will be matched to a th9 in weight.

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Exactly... Silly...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Troythethird

We are a level 13 clan with 347 war wins, so a pretty solid group. We just warred a level 6 clan with a 24 win streak. Thats ok, we have lost before and do not expect to win them all. The enemy got a perfect war on us, all 1st attacks. This doesnt bother us, kudos to them. What does bother us is that they had 18 th 11s out of 20 all of which had max troops and moderate defenses. We had 1 th11, 3 th10's, 2 th 7's, 5 th8's, the rest th9. All of theirs were maxed troops. So as you can imagine it wasn't much fun. We love a good war, but this is kinda wacky. So please SC come up with some better matchmaking magic!

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Well that's the reason we (my clan) stopped warring. Trash programming.

I'm sure someone is going to find a way around the MM somehow.

We have 2 TH11s with max heroes. enemy clan has 12. Count them 12......... This change can't come soon enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HwrdII

We have 2 TH11s with max heroes. enemy clan has 12. Count them 12......... This change can't come soon enough.

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To be honest, very much hope that aspect of the tweek in algorithms doesn't change. Heros & walls (once planted) should carry minimal weight. The grind to complete them is immense & that effort should be rewarded- not penalised. Think this thread is more targeted towards artificially engineered bases, the sort where TH11's appear below TH9's for example.

The algorithm to put in MM is easy, when either opponent selects their players have the server tali up buildings by th lvl, defense count and lvl as well as heroes, next tali up non defensive buildings by lvl, and last tali up offensive troops by lvl, then all the code written will have to do is:
in it main() {
if +-= to greater or less than "either + or - 1"
//(code to do math here)
//
else if +-= to greater or less than "either - or + 1"
//(code to do math here)
//
compare total and round off
}

Run fun time launching

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dibbs12345

To be honest, very much hope that aspect of the tweek in algorithms doesn't change. Heros & walls (once planted) should carry minimal weight. The grind to complete them is immense & that effort should be rewarded- not penalised. Think this thread is more targeted towards artificially engineered bases, the sort where TH11's appear below TH9's for example.

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Looks like what u feared has happened. I am th10 with max walls and matched against a max th11 with very low walls!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2222

And the announcement arrives, but it just says they have continued to work on it and they are going to keep working on it without any actual detail at all. As I said in another thread, I think some of us, me included, incorrectly assumed a community manager would mean we would get detailed information on the forums on a very regular/often basis. This announcement tells us nothing we don't already know and is worthy of only a quick post last week, not a post last week telling us of a big announcement this week that we then wait all week to hear. I have to ask, what possibly was the reason for this simple vague post taking all week? I defended the delay several times in the last week, but it looks like I was wrong.

---

Darian's interview provides some good insight and tells why we ca't know all the details (firstly, proprietary reasons, secondly, if people know the mechanics they would just try to fix it again).

Any hint of a time frame for these changes?

NM. Answered in another thread. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by freezerclasher

Looks like what u feared has happened. I am th10 with max walls and matched against a max th11 with very low walls!

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Isn't that how it was before?

I remember in the very early days we as a farming clan all maxing walls, were pretty much Always matched to TH10's with IT's. Their bases were weak overall, but those IT's made such a huge difference.

We have just started a 30v30 war. We have 2 max th11's, 6 mid th10's and 22th9's. Our opponent has 16 th11's (all with max troops), 8 th10's (max troops) and then normal th9's. Supercell have IGNORED players for far too long. It has now ruined a once great game. RIP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darian[Supercell]

......we also understand much more needed to be done to provide an enjoyable War experience while preventing one Clan from having a major advantage over the other.

We wanted to share with you that we are making improvements to how the algorithm functions in order to address “engineered bases” in the matchmaking feature. This new functionality will take more into account as far as “total weight” is concerned with regards to both defense and offense.

What this means for you is that your Clan will be more evenly matched against other Clans that have similar builds.

---

Frankly, I think The whole engineering thing, as far as MM goes, has been addressed fairly well. It is rare these days I see a huge mismatch. Sure the other side may have more 11's, eagles, etc but generally offensively they are weaker.

Darian's quote above in bold really makes me chuckle because the engineering community has used "play style" to largely justify an exploit of the game MM to achieve an offensive advantage over it's opponent for several years now. I support the idea of upgrading how you want, just be honest. I applaud SC for making the MM change to better match engineers with....engineers. I assume the "play style" enthusiasts will love this idea.

My guess is, if this happens, engineering's fate will mirror the Edsel.

Nope. It has made it worse. But this was expected. Engineers will rule the wars now. Most engineers have just one heavy troop. That doesn't add much to their weights. Those who have tried to max within the TH are now at a disadvantage. Walls seem to be weighing more than infernos now!!

So will there be any other upgrades or just war matchmaking?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roynice152

So will there be any other upgrades or just war matchmaking?

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We don't know yet. Doesn't look like it will be the only change tho:

Darian[Supercell]

6 Hours Ago
The matchmaking improvements have not yet been implemented. I'll be sure to post when it will go live including patch notes covering any other changes going in to that update.

Bah, it can't come soon enough. 4 of the last 6 wars we have been down eagles and grossly down th11 troops. Being down one or 2 th11s is doable. But come on, they have double the th11s AND more mostly max eagles bases. I don't care if the extra th11s do not have eagles. or even those that do not have infernos. It is a huge, ridiculous advantage that has folks extremely disinterested in war. And thus leaving the game. Put the minimum weight on the townhall please. Instant engineer fix. We are not talking about playstyle here. None of these guys are just offense oriented. They are gaming the system. You have a great product but are too worried about lost streams of revenue to make it even better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by freezerclasher

Nope. It has made it worse. But this was expected. Engineers will rule the wars now. Most engineers have just one heavy troop. That doesn't add much to their weights. Those who have tried to max within the TH are now at a disadvantage. Walls seem to be weighing more than infernos now!!

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The change hasn't happened yet?

An ETA(even with an accuracy of +_15 days) would have been great. This thread is starting to look like a click bait.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AndyInGame

Bah, it can't come soon enough. 4 of the last 6 wars we have been down eagles and grossly down th11 troops. Being down one or 2 th11s is doable. But come on, they have double the th11s AND more mostly max eagles bases. I don't care if the extra th11s do not have eagles. or even those that do not have infernos. It is a huge, ridiculous advantage that has folks extremely disinterested in war. And thus leaving the game. Put the minimum weight on the townhall please. Instant engineer fix. We are not talking about playstyle here. None of these guys are just offense oriented. They are gaming the system. You have a great product but are too worried about lost streams of revenue to make it even better.

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We just finished a war where we faced 11 th11s to our 5. We have no .5 bases of any kind. They obviously had like 10 .5 bases. We didn't have the hero advantage or the inferno advantage. They failed more th11 attacks than we had in total. This update couldn't come soon enough as our clan of multi year players (who buy plenty of gems) is slowly dying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SystematicChaos

An ETA(even with an accuracy of +_15 days) would have been great. This thread is starting to look like a click bait.

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So if SC doesn't tell about future update (as usual), its bad.
If they tell about something being worked on, its clickbait?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaagelus

So if SC doesn't tell about future update (as usual), its bad.
If they tell about something being worked on, its clickbait?

---

Didn't mean to hate or anything. It's good that he has reached out and told us about it. But any sort of conservative ETA would be good, because there's a lot of speculation over this and the forums are getting more and more toxic over discussing about this.

AGAIN ENGINEERS HAS STROKED OUR CLAN AND THIS TIME THEY ARE WORST......WITH MAX LAVA,LOONS,DRAGONS.....help

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AndyInGame

Bah, it can't come soon enough. 4 of the last 6 wars we have been down eagles and grossly down th11 troops. Being down one or 2 th11s is doable. But come on, they have double the th11s AND more mostly max eagles bases. I don't care if the extra th11s do not have eagles. or even those that do not have infernos. It is a huge, ridiculous advantage that has folks extremely disinterested in war. And thus leaving the game. Put the minimum weight on the townhall please. Instant engineer fix. We are not talking about playstyle here. None of these guys are just offense oriented. They are gaming the system. You have a great product but are too worried about lost streams of revenue to make it even better.

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Kinda agree with a lot of what you say.

We have some .5's for sure but not heavily engineered and have been coming across upto 4 more TH11's with EA's than we do. Dont mind being the underdog but it gets to a stage that war is not enjoyable anymore, knowing ones chances of winning are very slim

Hi all,

We are a heavy war clan, 10-11 th11 with 7 Eagle, 15-20 TH10 half of them with inferno and rest mail TH9

Last 3-4 war were terrible mismatches against us but the last one was unbelievable.
We got an iranian clan with 34. (.......) TH 11 and all of them with max laloon, lots of them with really high heros.
you would expect that because of this our top would be stronger but no😡
our nr 11 was a almost max TH10 facing a max th11 troops, heroes, only a few def not max
Their nr 18 had all regular def max th11 but no inferno and Eagle, our nr 18 was a mid TH10 , no inferno's.

So not only did they have 34 th11 , at lot of them with max troops, but almost every number of my clan faced a stronger opponent

You can imagine what happened, their nr 10-50 attacked and put our 10-50 with mass laloon on 3, put the top 10'all on 2 star

We lost 140-136 , not even that bad but we had ni chance what so ever to win.

We informed SC , we urged them to investigate How a mismatch of this magnitude could have happend.
But much further than "we are working on in to improve it, we know it is not 100% ready" and "sometimes you have an advantage and sometimes disadvantage" we dont get.

SC is making a big mess of implementing a new matching algoritme and dont seem to care that all the fun of playing CW is taken out 🤕

Sorry for the long post but we think SC is trying to chance a system in live game and dont seem to care about rediclious mismatches. Can happen, its complex , next time you get the advantage bla bla bla

Very very disappointed in SC

Lame lame lame lame lame.
Our clan just match 15x15 to an enemy clan with 2 th11s 20/20/5 (both with wardens, 1 with eagle the other with th7 defenses). We have a single mid th10 with 20/20 heroes and 4 th9s. They are gonna trash all of our top bases and we can do little about it. I have had it with this stupid match making algo. If supercell cant get their heads out of their butts, then our clan will stop participating in wars. All this ♥♥ about allowing ppl to play however they choose....if they decide to engineer then that is their choice to do so. Match th11s with th11s. Th10s with th10s and all of this rubbish will stop.

Rodevlem, dude, are you taking the Mickey?

Sorry Dibbs, I am not a native English speaker, dont know what "taking the Mickey" means

Can someone from SC please roughly clarify what an "engineered base" is. This is getting out of hand. Seems as if just a complaints page for " uneven" war matches. Clans with very rushed bases are going to match weirdly now and after update. Got a feeling that is happening in 90% of posts here where extreme miss matches are reported.

Very loosely, it means are you joking or something similar. From what you said you have multiple bases in your clan that are .5's and are expecting an exact match. It's not gonna happen. 👆 Official clarification on what engineering is would be helpful.

I just think people be lieing about the match ups to tell the truth

Many people who had strong offensive and lower difensive. In a war, their position in low on war map, but attack on the high. This is create a problem on against team. Supercell team should this fixable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rustybee

Lame lame lame lame lame.
Our clan just match 15x15 to an enemy clan with 2 th11s 20/20/5 (both with wardens, 1 with eagle the other with th7 defenses). We have a single mid th10 with 20/20 heroes and 4 th9s. They are gonna trash all of our top bases and we can do little about it. I have had it with this stupid match making algo. If supercell cant get their heads out of their butts, then our clan will stop participating in wars. All this ♥♥ about allowing ppl to play however they choose....if they decide to engineer then that is their choice to do so. Match th11s with th11s. Th10s with th10s and all of this rubbish will stop.

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Matching halls is a big problem for new hall levels though. They can improve the matchmaker in a better way than that. No new halls would ever be allowed to be in war in my clan in a hall matching system. That isn't a big deal before th9, but th9 takes a very long time to get close to max. Also, you have a rushed th10 at the top of your roster which has pretty much always been a bad idea. That probably won't change after the new matchmaker is put into play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2222

Matching halls is a big problem for new hall levels though. They can improve the matchmaker in a better way than that. No new halls would ever be allowed to be in war in my clan in a hall matching system. That isn't a big deal before th9, but th9 takes a very long time to get close to max. Also, you have a rushed th10 at the top of your roster which has pretty much always been a bad idea. That probably won't change after the new matchmaker is put into play.

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Excellent advice. Having a rushed th10-11 at the top of your war map is asking for trouble. I also won't allow newly upgraded town halls into wars because they won't have the firepower to fight their mirrors most of the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loubaby

Excellent advice. Having a rushed th10-11 at the top of your war map is asking for trouble. I also won't allow newly upgraded town halls into wars because they won't have the firepower to fight their mirrors most of the time.

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With the current matchmaker I will allow a new hall into war, assuming they don't immediately drop a heavy defense, but that would not be the case in a hall matching system. There just is way too much of a difference between an early and late hall at th9-11.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2222

With the current matchmaker I will allow a new hall into war, assuming they don't immediately drop a heavy defense, but that would not be the case in a hall matching system. There just is way too much of a difference between an early and late hall at th9-11.

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Th match should be the base of the initial weight per member. You add weight based on each def lvl for total weight.
It's the best way to handle mm. You can recover one or two extra th10s or 11s. 7 to 1 is ridiculous.

The last 2 war searching has taken forever. Has anyone else experienced this. Last war it took 8 hours to find a match and so far today we are at 6.5 hours with nothing found yet. 50 vs th11 to th8s

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dillinger

Th match should be the base of the initial weight per member. You add weight based on each def lvl for total weight.
It's the best way to handle mm. You can recover one or two extra th10s or 11s. 7 to 1 is ridiculous.

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I think you are describing the often suggested system where each hall weighs at minimum what a max hall one level below weighs. I long resisted such suggestions and instead supported just fixing the weights, but as time has gone one I've started to think a hammer type solution might be best since the scalpel has not worked. Let's see how this upcoming change does (and we will need to give it some time to be adjusted) before going there, though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pobilly

The last 2 war searching has taken forever. Has anyone else experienced this. Last war it took 8 hours to find a match and so far today we are at 6.5 hours with nothing found yet. 50 vs th11 to th8s

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Because not many clan can do 50vs50 wars.

Adding weight to offense is a bad move. Using Defense as the pivot point is what has worked. And it makes sense why it does. You are applying the algorithm to only one side of two variables. Adding weight to offense will bring, perhaps is what is bringing crazy wars. The MM has been tweaked recently, and wars have never been so bad in the history of clan wars.

I'm assuming the idea behind adding weight to offense is to curb the defenseless base by giving it more weight as it has more offense than defense. Except, by adding weight to offense, you are also adding weight to the other side of the coin.

There are two types of wars: The winnable war, and the impossible to win war. Inside the winnable war, you have unfair wars. The unfair war, can be won, but they are unfair because the opposition has more chances to attack the top bases. So, yea, that needs to be fixed.

How do we fix it? Now, the MM was not spinning impossible to win wars, it was giving unfair wars because of the defenseless bases. So the MM was not broken, that is to say, it was not spinning impossible to win wars as we see it now. In short, using defense as the ruling variable, works.

The solution is so simple. Yes, you look at the offense level base has, but you don't add weight to it's offense, you take the offense level and add it to it's defense weight.

In short, the MM is fine as it was, it has been fine for over a year now. Revert to it, just add an algorithm that will look for the offense level of a base, and give it a corresponding defense weight. A defenseless TH11 with max heroes and troops, should have a minimum defense weight of a max TH10. So just add that to it's defense weight. That's all you need to do SC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iBork

Adding weight to offense is a bad move. Using Defense as the pivot point is what has worked. And it makes sense why it does. You are applying the algorithm to only one side of two variables. Adding weight to offense will bring, perhaps is what is bringing crazy wars. The MM has been tweaked recently, and wars have never been so bad in the history of clan wars.

I'm assuming the idea behind adding weight to offense is to curb the defenseless base by giving it more weight as it has more offense than defense. Except, by adding weight to offense, you are also adding weight to the other side of the coin.

There are two types of wars: The winnable war, and the impossible to win war. Inside the winnable war, you have unfair wars. The unfair war, can be won, but they are unfair because the opposition has more chances to attack the top bases. So, yea, that needs to be fixed.

How do we fix it? Now, the MM was not spinning impossible to win wars, it was giving unfair wars because of the defenseless bases. So the MM was not broken, that is to say, it was not spinning impossible to win wars as we see it now. In short, using defense as the ruling variable, works.

The solution is so simple. Yes, you look at the offense level base has, but you don't add weight to it's offense, you take the offense level and add it to it's defense weight.

In short, the MM is fine as it was, it has been fine for over a year now. Revert to it, just add an algorithm that will look for the offense level of a base, and give it a corresponding defense weight. A defenseless TH11 with max heroes and troops, should have a minimum defense weight of a max TH10. So just add that to it's defense weight. That's all you need to do SC.

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It did spin impossible to win wars and it wasn't fine in my opinion, but it might have been better than it is currently.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2222

It did spin impossible to win wars and it wasn't fine in my opinion, but it might have been better than it is currently.

---

Yes, in some cases, it was spinning impossible to win wars. But the reason had to do with the defenseless base. As an example, a clan whose top base was a TH10 or less, being matched with a clan that had defenseless TH11 bases with max troops is an impossible to win war.

But that problem would be solved if the MM was revised as per what I suggested.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iBork

Yes, in some cases, it was spinning impossible to win wars. But the reason had to do with the defenseless base. As an example, a clan whose top base was a TH10 or less, being matched with a clan that had defenseless TH11 bases with max troops is an impossible to win war.

But that problem would be solved if the MM was revised as per what I suggested.

---

I've always thought roster engineering, whether through defenseless bases or a lot of low weight bases, was the worst kind of engineering. I've never faulted engineers for building their bases in a way that they think is good for war, but I don't feel the same about clans who intentionally manipulate the roster. I really hope the upcoming update has that problem in mind, not just matching engineers vs. engineers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 2222

I've always thought roster engineering, whether through defenseless bases or a lot of low weight bases, was the worst kind of engineering. I've never faulted engineers for building their bases in a way that they think is good for war, but I don't feel the same about clans who intentionally manipulate the roster. I really hope the upcoming update has that problem in mind, not just matching engineers vs. engineers.

---

I can agree with you to a point. My view on the subject is that a clan needs to place some thought into how they upgrade their bases. We've never encounter a problem with roster engineering. Matter of fact, it was kind funny when we saw them because it didn't help them at all. But at that time, the MM was working well.

As I see it, there are two ruling factors in clans wars. The MM, and the players. Many have unrealistic expectations from the MM and believe the MM should spin good wars no matter how their bases are built. This is false. You have to "engineer" in some way.

From our experience in clans wars, we have been war'ing for over 4 years, and have tried all types on combinations. What we have learned, is that maxing a base is what brings you hard wars, no matter how perfect the MM is. To this aspect, no MM will ever favor that impossibility. This is an opinion based on trial and error.

My point is, the majority of complaints, and type of clans that people complain about, is not so much the fault of the MM, but their lack of planing, or experience, in how to build good bases for war. So this causes pressure on SC to fix it. The problem is, you can't fix something that isn't broken.

I wish SC would give players at least some kind of guidance with regards to clan wars. That's what I feel is the missing link. People like me, saying that a maxed base is the worst thing you can have in war falls on death ears. The thing is, it's true.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iBork

I can agree with you to a point. My view on the subject is that a clan needs to place some thought into how they upgrade their bases. We've never encounter a problem with roster engineering. Matter of fact, it was kind funny when we saw them because it didn't help them at all. But at that time, the MM was working well.

As I see it, there are two ruling factors in clans wars. The MM, and the players. Many have unrealistic expectations from the MM and believe the MM should spin good wars no matter how their bases are built. This is false. You have to "engineer" in some way.

From our experience in clans wars, we have been war'ing for over 4 years, and have tried all types on combinations. What we have learned, is that maxing a base is what brings you hard wars, no matter how perfect the MM is. To this aspect, no MM will ever favor that impossibility. This is an opinion based on trial and error.

My point is, the majority of complaints, and type of clans that people complain about, is not so much the fault of the MM, but their lack of planing, or experience, in how to build good bases for war. So this causes pressure on SC to fix it. The problem is, you can't fix something that isn't broken.

I wish SC would give players at least some kind of guidance with regards to clan wars. That's what I feel is the missing link. People like me, saying that a maxed base is the worst thing you can have in war falls on death ears. The thing is, it's true.

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Many engineers share the opinion that it is good to be rewarded for the knowledge of how to build your base to take advantage of the matchmaker's faults. I don't think that is an unreasonable opinion, even though I don't really agree (I prefer a matchmaker that causes the outcome to be as much as possible determined by the attacking and base designing skill of the players, not what they did to their base before war). However, I do think we should acknowledge them as faults. If the matchmaker overweights something so much that it is better to not even build it at all, that is a fault. It improperly weights it. If the matchmaker is going to give advantages (a perfect matchmaker would give none in my opinion, which isn't possible) then it would seem to me to make the advantages be the type of progression path that is intuitive, without having to research how to take advantage of the matchmaker. In other words, not giving an advantage to literally not building something. That said, the knowledge of the matchmaker faults has spread so much now that this type of problem is not nearly as important to me as the problem of roster engineering.

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Originally Posted by 2222

Many engineers share the opinion that it is good to be rewarded for the knowledge of how to build your base to take advantage of the matchmaker's faults. I don't think that is an unreasonable opinion, even though I don't really agree (I prefer a matchmaker that causes the outcome to be as much as possible determined by the attacking and base designing skill of the players, not what they did to their base before war). However, I do think we should acknowledge them as faults. If the matchmaker overweights something so much that it is better to not even build it at all, that is a fault. It improperly weights it. If the matchmaker is going to give advantages (a perfect matchmaker would give none in my opinion, which isn't possible) then it would seem to me to make the advantages be the type of progression path that is intuitive, without having to research how to take advantage of the matchmaker. In other words, not giving an advantage to literally not building something. That said, the knowledge of the matchmaker faults has spread so much now that this type of problem is not nearly as important to me as the problem of roster engineering.

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It's not unreasonable to want a good MM. We all agree on that. Where we differ in opinion, is that the MM can only do so much. And when you try to make fair to all types of bases, it breaks it. There is a middle ground. And that middle ground is not a moving target. It is where it is.