Clan War Matchmaking Improvements

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Originally Posted by davidxhz

i don't like eagles that's why i don't build it, oh forgot to mention their no9 and no 11are th11 defenseless with 10 10 10 heros and level 6 dragon, we have all normal bases except the 3 and 4

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I think several people already told you want the problem is, by not placing those defenses you are matching with similar weighted bases...engineers, fix the weight issue...fix the matches you get

but this was never a problem before. we get opponents with similar build all the time. and with the "improvements", we all of a sudden can't find a match ?

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Originally Posted by Warios

Lots to do, build up those babies and get a closer th spread.

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Originally Posted by dbl4210

but this was never a problem before. we get opponents with similar build all the time. and with the "improvements", we all of a sudden can't find a match ?

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Full details please on the bases you are searching with...or your clan#

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Originally Posted by PrincessKeys

Us Them
1 -9 1 -9 and 1 rushed 9 (th8)
4 -8 3 -8
3 -7 5 -7
2 -6

This looks to be a fairly balanced war.

It boils down to a face off between me on my younger twin 9 and their #1. His base is slightly strong than mine but I have more war stars so we will see. My 8s are a touch stronger than his.

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War is not over yet but it will be either a win or draw for us. They are bringing in some weird army comps so I think it will be a win for us. We have 3 on all their bases. Just waiting on them now. It is a leveling up war for us. WooHoo!!!

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Originally Posted by 2222

Whether it is in improvement or not depends on the make-up of your 10 players in the war. Hall levels? Offensive levels? Heroes? Defensive weight?

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Originally Posted by dbl4210

we are a two person clan, just me and my girl. I'm a max TH11, she is a MAX TH8, we have an engineered TH10 and some low level TH babies (all with defense).
i have been playing clan war for over two years. always play whatever it's thrown at me. Never complain. so stop whining and just let us play. now with the so called improvements, we can't even get a match! now we have nothing to do.

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Your toxicity in claiming I was whining was clearly misplaced. Read my post again and tell me where I whined? I asked you a question. It was impossible to judge whether the matchmaker was working or failing without knowing more information. Now that you have shared, my opinion of your clan with a max th11 anchor followed by a bunch of engineered accounts and then some very low weight roster engineering is that you likely often faced clans that you could perfect score on and they could not due to your th11 anchor. If the new matchmaker is preventing you from getting those matches, I would say that is an improvement. It should be trying to find another clan like yours with a max th11 up top, followed by a max th8, then some engineered accounts. That way both clans can battle it out on an even playing field and not ruin a war for someone else. That clans like yours are struggling to find a match is not concerning. I have heard some others claim to also have a hard time matching despite not having such heavy roster engineering and that is concerning.

nothing you are saying is true. i have been playing this type of 10 vs 10 for a long time and we get opponents of similar builds almost every time! I mean every time! so matching fairly was not a problem for me or for our opponents. it is basically a battle at the top and see who wins. fair and square. and btw, i have not 30 starred for a long time.

and now with the update we can't even find a match so somewhere must be broken because I know for a fact there are clans similar to ours out there.

and btw i didn't say you were whining, just whining in general. i hardly come to this forum because i enjoy playing a lot more than typing for sure! but this time the update is getting ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by 2222

Your toxicity in claiming I was whining was clearly misplaced. Read my post again and tell me where I whined? I asked you a question. It was impossible to judge whether the matchmaker was working or failing without knowing more information. Now that you have shared, my opinion of your clan with a max th11 anchor followed by a bunch of engineered accounts and then some very low weight roster engineering is that you likely often faced clans that you could perfect score on and they could not due to your th11 anchor. If the new matchmaker is preventing you from getting those matches, I would say that is an improvement. It should be trying to find another clan like yours with a max th11 up top, followed by a max th8, then some engineered accounts. That way both clans can battle it out on an even playing field and not ruin a war for someone else. That clans like yours are struggling to find a match is not concerning. I have heard some others claim to also have a hard time matching despite not having such heavy roster engineering and that is concerning.

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Originally Posted by JohnnyPC

I'm looking at a post that lacks detail. Simply having 2 less TH11s does NOT make it a bad match up if you don't provide the offense/defense details of the opponent with more TH11s.

Last war our max TH was a TH9. Theirs was a TH10. Was it a bad match up? No, because their TH10 was rushed and effectively a TH9. We won the war.

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All their 11s have max troops where it counts, 2 have th8 defenses, but its not defenses that win its the offense. They have just a few th8s to clean, but if we are lucky we will only lose this war 42-44.

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Originally Posted by Summermilk

This is what happened to our clan war also. We ran 40 vs 40 and our #29-40 is a complete mismatch.

Our 29-40 are mid th8, rushed th7, and th6. Their 29-40 are legit th9 with max xbows, 2 max th8, and 2 engineered th10 and 11.

The top ones are still okay, but in total, we lost defense poins by a great number. And our offense poin are similar. They have decent heroes as well.

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Originally Posted by Fiofri

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We just spun a 40 v 40 war last night and got the following.....

Our TH #40 is a TH3
Our TH #39 is a TH5
Our TH#38 is a TH8
I am TH#32, I am middle of the Road TH10 with maxxed offense and midway through defense upgrades.
Our TH11s (all with eagles) start at #29.


Our Opponents #40 is a TH11, with a mix of TH9 & 10 defenses, LVL 4 Infernos, Eagle, Maxxed Offense.
Our Opponents #39 is a TH11, mostly TH 11 defense. maxed ferns and eagle, Maxxed Offense
Our Opponents #38 is a TH11, basically the same as their #39
Our Opponents #32 (across from me) is basically a maxxed TH11 on offense and defense.

From #29 up, the matchup seems pretty legit.

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Just a theory, ... is this SC’s way of getting rid the advantage of bringing excess baggage at the bottom of the roster? Because now, bringing them doesn’t really take any effect on lowering the opponent’s defense, but instead you are losing a lot of attacks at the bottom.

Does any other clan face similar situation like this?

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Originally Posted by Summermilk

Just a theory, ... is this SC’s way of getting rid the advantage of bringing excess baggage at the bottom of the roster? Because now, bringing them doesn’t really take any effect on lowering the opponent’s defense, but instead you are losing a lot of attacks at the bottom.

Does any other clan face similar situation like this?

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Yes, noticing that big time. It was initially the reason SuperCell got rid of total weight way back. However, that led to heavy engineered bases at the lower half. Thing is, so many clans adapted to this revised total weight system quickly and for clans like mine, which do have lots of normal, un-engineered TH7s, TH8s, TH9s, the matchups have been uneven. Faced clans which essentially crippled the lower half of the lineup (defenseless TH3 bases).

I don't know why it is so hard for Supercell to match more evenly. Honestly, in the past 10 war games, I have yet to see 1 game which I can honestly say it is fair for both sides.

We now typically get 4 to 6 more TH10.5 against us in a 15x15 war and typically 2 or 3 more TH10 infernos, where we put in 2 TH10.5, 1 TH10 and rest TH9.5, TH9 and TH8 bases. Completely ridiculous, 80% of wars it is not even worth trying to win as they get 44 or 45 stars even if they are average to bad attackers (i.e. fail on a TH9.5 base even with TH11 level troops and heroes). Whatever was wrong with the previous logic, these changes have made match ups far worse, and less competitive.

Part of the problem I believe is SC doesnt place proper value on war troops. So a max barb is probably providing the same weight as a max bowler eventhough they are completely uncomparable in war value. SC will probably come back with something like they cant possibly predict which troops are more valuable for war than others so they have to compare everything as equals. However these engineered accounts are showing up with all troops upgraded only the ones needed to attack high level bases. My th9 may have more total offensive upgrades than your th11 but you are hitting bases with max bowlers, witches, and healers. No real comparison yet my th9 is way behind. A minimum war weight is required. A th11 should never come in as a th9.

I honestly don't know what SC were thinking. Total weight was previously abandoned by SC because of how easy it was to exploit it. It didn't take long for clans to adapt. Now, they put it back with some "complicated" parameters. The reality is that they simply give those clans which have beaten total weight more power.

I've seen more wars where one side simply gave up after the change. Honestly, for every unfair matchup, I really want SC to prove to me that the clearly disadvantaged side actually have a chance of winning. Perhaps the programmers / developers should play those war games on the losing side to understand how bad the war matching system is.

Here's a "democratic" idea. How about SC runs a poll on this forum asking all players whether they think matchmaking has improved after the updates or not? Or is it too radical to expect SC actually cares what their loyal players think??

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Originally Posted by rub92me

Here's a "democratic" idea. How about SC runs a poll on this forum asking all players whether they think matchmaking has improved after the updates or not? Or is it too radical to expect SC actually cares what their loyal players think??

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Impressions are a poor way to make a decision. If I don't like my most recent war I may forget 20 good ones prior to that. And dissatisfied players are more likely to post than happy ones.

I would be more interested in hard metrics. What percentage of wars are decided by total damage tie-breaker? What percentage by a differential of 5+ stars? Is it more or less than before the tweak? Is there a war size that has higher or lower chance of a close outcome?

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Originally Posted by rub92me

Here's a "democratic" idea. How about SC runs a poll on this forum asking all players whether they think matchmaking has improved after the updates or not? Or is it too radical to expect SC actually cares what their loyal players think??

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They don't have to ask. If all these extra sites can get player stats, SC can too.

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Originally Posted by PapaTroll

Impressions are a poor way to make a decision. If I don't like my most recent war I may forget 20 good ones prior to that. And dissatisfied players are more likely to post than happy ones.

I would be more interested in hard metrics. What percentage of wars are decided by total damage tie-breaker? What percentage by a differential of 5+ stars? Is it more or less than before the tweak? Is there a war size that has higher or lower chance of a close outcome?

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This has been discussed in the war forum plenty. Most people there think that the final result is a rubbish way to judge whether a war was fair.

For example we had one war just after the first update where the enemy had a large advantage but didn't attack at all and we won by something like 40*. Another enemy seemed to be eaten by the octopus, saving us again.
Last war they were failing 11v9 dips and we pulled off enough 10v10s to balance out their advantage - but that doesn't mean it was a good matchup despite the relatively close score.

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Originally Posted by dbl4210

nothing you are saying is true. i have been playing this type of 10 vs 10 for a long time and we get opponents of similar builds almost every time! I mean every time! so matching fairly was not a problem for me or for our opponents. it is basically a battle at the top and see who wins. fair and square. and btw, i have not 30 starred for a long time.

and now with the update we can't even find a match so somewhere must be broken because I know for a fact there are clans similar to ours out there.

and btw i didn't say you were whining, just whining in general. i hardly come to this forum because i enjoy playing a lot more than typing for sure! but this time the update is getting ridiculous.

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I suspect your opponent "similar" build was a th10 or lower in their top spot, allowing you to easily destroy it and giving them the impossible task of 3 starring your max th11. Just my suspicion that this was a common match for you. I do agree there are some other clans like yours with a max th11 at the top and then a bunch of low weight. What is your clan tag?

It sucks I can't battle my own number

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Originally Posted by DTLedo

It sucks I can't battle my own number

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If your clan is forcing you to attack your same number that is a problem right off the start. The map order is an order of defense of their clan and has nothing to do with your own offensive ability.

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Originally Posted by DTLedo

It sucks I can't battle my own number

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Upgrade troops.

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Originally Posted by PapaTroll

Upgrade troops.

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I'm pretty sure that is not what he means. I think he means something like he is a th9 and his mirror is a th11. Something like that is my guess. That is why I noted his clan should not be forcing him to attack his mirror.

Matchmaking is even worse than before. Now we have even more engineered bases against us.

So, instead of fixing clouds and giving maxed players something new, you guys ruuned the last thing that actually worked atleast a little bit. Now evem that doesnt work. Good job supercell. Very good!

Bad match again ... SC should give perma .5 or .75 bases a higher weight. Our th10 and new th10.5 always get max th10.75 mirrors ...

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Originally Posted by 2222

I'm pretty sure that is not what he means. I think he means something like he is a th9 and his mirror is a th11. Something like that is my guess. That is why I noted his clan should not be forcing him to attack his mirror.

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While not the all in all, one's mirror can show a lot about the balance of the war. If I bring in a 10/10 war and one of my 9s has a 11 mirror, that says a lot. Everyone above that 11 is going to have an even stronger def and that 11 is usually eng with max drags and extra spells.

Bwahahahahahahaaa!!! Situation: 40x40 war. We have 2 th11s... Enemy has 24 th11s. Good times. Ah well, we'll fight... and will post the result as a response to this later. Enemy clan looks like it is mostly one guy with many accounts. He probably gemmed a lot, so at least we can thank him for financing our Free To Play lifestyles.

I decided after getting an infraction for a benign post here, that the only way to complain was to use my market weight . thus far SC's bottom line is >$300 lighter from our family since the first wm update, we are not a heavily engineered clan yet we have been matched to extremes and 1/3 of our losses have been since the meddling and rule changes that negated what we based our strategies on.

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Originally Posted by AemonTargaryean

Bwahahahahahahaaa!!! Situation: 40x40 war. We have 2 th11s... Enemy has 24 th11s. Good times.

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Good night!!!!!! What a mess!

From last two days our clan not getting any war match😞😞...30vs30 2 th11,2th10,12 th9....

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Originally Posted by dbl4210

but this was never a problem before. we get opponents with similar build all the time. and with the "improvements", we all of a sudden can't find a match ?

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Same with us, we have not gotten a match in over 24 hours :-/

We have gone from getting a match in 3-10 minutes to about an hour but ours have been better. I feel for y'all getting those crazy matchups

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Originally Posted by HavanaWoody

I decided after getting an infraction for a benign post here, that the only way to complain was to use my market weight . thus far SC's bottom line is >$300 lighter from our family since the first wm update, we are not a heavily engineered clan yet we have been matched to extremes and 1/3 of our losses have been since the meddling and rule changes that negated what we based our strategies on.

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I'm confident that you didn't get an infraction for a benign post, but note that discussing/complaining about a moderator action like an infraction is itself against the rules.

you must not have played in any this type of 10 vs 10 clan war. I don't recall ever getting a TH 10 or lower in their top spot in the last year or so (since I maxed my TH11). sure I don't always get a max TH 11 but most of the time it's pretty close. just looked at our war log, only 30 starred 7 times in the last 134 days and I play consecutive wars. we do win a lot but that's just because I'm good.:p

anyway, third day into searching, still no match. yawn.

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Originally Posted by 2222

I suspect your opponent "similar" build was a th10 or lower in their top spot, allowing you to easily destroy it and giving them the impossible task of 3 starring your max th11. Just my suspicion that this was a common match for you. I do agree there are some other clans like yours with a max th11 at the top and then a bunch of low weight. What is your clan tag?

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Originally Posted by dbl4210

you must not have played in any this type of 10 vs 10 clan war. I don't recall ever getting a TH 10 or lower in their top spot in the last year or so (since I maxed my TH11). sure I don't always get a max TH 11 but most of the time it's pretty close. just looked at our war log, only 30 starred 7 times in the last 134 days and I play consecutive wars. we do win a lot but that's just because I'm good.:p

anyway, third day into searching, still no match. yawn.

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What is your clan #?

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Originally Posted by Sineesh

From last two days our clan not getting any war match😞😞...30vs30 2 th11,2th10,12 th9....

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More details please. For each war postion list TH, king level, queen level, gw level, xbow, infernoes, ea...that will start to help us help you...

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Originally Posted by 2222

What is your clan #?

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I asked him this last night and never got an answer

Our 15v15 matches are more even since the update. Doesn't take us too long to get a match either. We are a "normal" clan with "normal" town hall breakdown. No engineers. I am very curious what the breakdown is of all the matches that are taking hours/days. There must be something fishy going on in those clans. I'm glad matches are taking a long time for those clans because hopefully now you will get a fair matchup and not be able to bully attack like usual.

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Originally Posted by GarinOregonHeavy

I am very curious what the breakdown is of all the matches that are taking hours/days. There must be something fishy going on in those clans.

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Our last two searches took 1-2h with 15v15 wars and our roster isn't very odd. (Less than 30m before the update) A rushed th11 with ea at the top, some .5, some engineers, some bases with max defense and weak heroes ... probably a normal roster for casual wars. (Only one defenseless base and I think that's the reason for our bad matches. Maybe next time we should add 5 th3 at the bottom. Thx SC. :unsure:)

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Originally Posted by Colin94

Our last two searches took 1-2h with 15v15 wars and our roster isn't very odd. (Less than 30m before the update) A rushed th11 with ea at the top, some .5, some engineers, some bases with max defense and weak heroes ... probably a normal roster for casual wars. (Only one defenseless base and I think that the reason for our bad matches. Maybe next time we should add 5 th3 at the bottom. Thx SC. :unsure:)

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1-2hrs is long, but not as long as several here have mentioned. Mine have all been running about 45-60 minutes with "non-engineered" accounts. Not sure how long last nights match took (must a been a brief maint. break) because I searched 16hrs ago, and we have 7.5 hrs left until battle day (prep day still 23hrs right?)

really nice matchmaking pattern since the update, this - for ex - is our pending 10vs10 war.

us: http://thumbs.imagebam.com/df/17/d3/3fc993614351293.jpg

them: http://thumbs.imagebam.com/90/26/32/82469d614352433.jpg

theres total of 7 11s on their side, none with eagle, inferno-less th10 and low end base, 4 or 5, doesnt even matter.
we are going with 1 th11, 5 th10, 3 th9, 1th8. no bird, all tens have infernos, 9s have bows.

our heroes are far ahead in general, their top 2 have 30ish bk and aq, rest of them are low th9 hero lvls.
also, their lower 11s have lv5/6 drags, max lightnings, top players have max lavaloon/bowlers.

search took roughly 40 mins, restarted twice.

keep up the good work, supercell :thumbs up:

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Originally Posted by freeman99

really nice matchmaking pattern since the update, this - for ex - is our pending 10vs10 war.

us: http://thumbs.imagebam.com/df/17/d3/3fc993614351293.jpg

them: http://thumbs.imagebam.com/90/26/32/82469d614352433.jpg

theres total of 7 11s on their side, none with eagle, inferno-less th10 and low end base, 4 or 5, doesnt even matter.
we are going with 1 th11, 5 th10, 3 th9, 1th8. no bird, all tens have infernos, 9s have bows.

our heroes are far ahead in general, their top 2 have 30ish bk and aq, rest of them are low th9 hero lvls.
also, their lower 11s have lv5/6 drags, max lightnings, top players have max lavaloon/bowlers.

search took roughly 40 mins, restarted twice.

keep up the good work, supercell :thumbs up:

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Sounds like you have the upper hand if your 10s are set up right with the defenses you describe...any GW for them?

edit: If you know they are most likely going air, update your bases accordingly...and don't put any balloons in your cc.

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Originally Posted by Slayer339

Sounds like you have the upper hand if your 10s are set up right with the defenses you describe...any GW for them?

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Are you Kidding me..???
did you even see the image.???
As referred in the post...
us has 1 TH11
And them As 5(as I can see in Image).
thinking about offensively. They will have better troops and 10 attacks from top 5.
Warden level 5 is enough to wreck th10 bases. Nobody would sit idle without warden even by rushing to th11.
I seriously did not understand how could you even say Poster has an upper hand!!!
Makes me LOL.

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Originally Posted by Lady Maverick

Are you Kidding me..???
did you even see the image.???
US has 1 TH11
And them As 5(as I can see in Image).
thinking about offensively. They will have better troops and 10 attacks from top 5.
Warden level 5 is enough to wreck th10 bases. Nobody would sit idle without warden even by rushing to th11.
I seriously did not understand how could you even say Posters has an upper hand!!!
Makes me LOL.

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They made no mention of any GW for the other side.
They have hero's FAR ahead of the other side, and none of the heavy damage defenses...did I read that wrong?
As described in the post it sounds like a couple pretty white buildings and max drags on some. More details would help.

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Originally Posted by Lady Maverick

Are you Kidding me..???
did you even see the image.???
As referred in the post...
us has 1 TH11

Warden level 5 is enough to wreck th10 bases.

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Having strength is one thing, knowing how to use it is another!

If wars were won by the colour of the Town Hall then they would be in trouble.

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Originally Posted by WormShoes

Having strength is one thing, knowing how to use it is another!

If wars were won by the colour of the Town Hall then they would be in trouble.

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True. But Would you mention the same if attackers were not bad as you think.?

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Originally Posted by Lady Maverick

True. But Would you mention the same if attackers were not bad as you think.?

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It's a 10v10 war...With the far stronger heroes they have good chance t0 go perfect against those defenses.

yea, we have old-school th10 bases in our roster :D with all defences included, mostly anti-3* designed. and forgot about warden..again, top 2 players have lv20 and 15 gw, 3 have low level wardens, but with ability unlocked, 2 are wardenless :D (only warden on our side is max)

we are on streak of 2, they are on 7. but we have 0 interest of giving up. a mail has been issued warning our guys to point the bows up :)

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Originally Posted by freeman99

yea, we have old-school th10 bases in our roster :D with all defences included, mostly anti-3* designed. and forgot about warden..again, top 2 players have lv20 and 15 gw, 3 have low level wardens, but with ability unlocked, 2 are wardenless :D (only warden on our side is max)

we are on streak of 2, they are on 7. but we have 0 interest of giving up. a mail has been issued warning our guys to point the bows up :)

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ok...it may be a tough one with those top two...bring your A game & good luck

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Originally Posted by Slayer339

It's a 10v10 war...With the far stronger heroes they have good chance t0 go perfect against those defenses.

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I'm not saying they cannot win. Yes, they can.
However, I'm just saying It's going to be very hard. as th10 cannot withstand any attacks by a th11. especially when they have 14th11 attacks.(7 th11 as mentioned which can be used only on th10's and 11's) rest of the enemy can clear th9 and 8 easily.

I've been through these kinds of matchups where hero levels did not matter.. troops did matter where they wrecked our th10 bases(it was not easy to 3*) But i wish A very Good luck. And try hard.

thanks, i can post war outcome once its over

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Originally Posted by Lady Maverick

Are you Kidding me..???
did you even see the image.???
As referred in the post...
us has 1 TH11
And them As 5(as I can see in Image).
thinking about offensively. They will have better troops and 10 attacks from top 5.
Warden level 5 is enough to wreck th10 bases. Nobody would sit idle without warden even by rushing to th11.
I seriously did not understand how could you even say Poster has an upper hand!!!
Makes me LOL.

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Could be worse. We just did a 40v40. We have 20 th11s they have 39. Granted we have more eagles but that won’t make a difference. Definitely the worst match we’ve ever had. Obviously with lots of engineers and fewer active players/clans matches are just getting more and more difficult.

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Originally Posted by chiefillini

Could be worse. We just did a 40v40. We have 20 th11s they have 39. Granted we have more eagles but that won’t make a difference. Definitely the worst match we’ve ever had. Obviously with lots of engineers and fewer active players/clans matches are just getting more and more difficult.

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What are your offenses in your TH11s? Remember they said they added a higher degree of consideration to the offenses.

Yes are out numbered at TH11s, but you do have enough TH11s to cover the map
Let the lower THs go first as scouts...then try to cover the 40 with your 20 TH11s...

(waiting to see more wars, but still don't think enough weight is on the GW)

Currently warring in two clans...

Clan #1: Battle day in process, still fairly even although they have two TH11s (none for us)
Clan #2: Prep day in process, (us) 0/4/12/7/2 vs 0/4/10/8/3 details may follow tomorrow


Clan 1 details:
US:

	TH	W	K	Q	G	X1	X2	X3	X4	I1	I2	EA
1	10	86	20	20		4	4	4		3	3
2	10	86	22	21		4	4	4		3	3
3	10	84	17	20		3	3	3		3	3
4	10	84	14	11		4	3	3		2	1
5	10	83	11	11		3	3	1		3	2
6	10	81	10	10		3	3	2		1	0
7	10	80	9	11		3	2	2		2	1
8	9	68	15	19		3	3
9	9	65	13	13		3	3
10	9	63	9	1		2	2
11	9	61	9	1		1	1
12	9	61	10	9		1	1
13	9	60	10	2		2	0
14	9	59	5	5		2	1
15	9	55	7	0		0	0
16	8	48	2
17	7	43	7
18	7	35	0
19	7	33	0
20	6	29	0

Them:

	TH	W	K	Q	G	X1	X2	X3	X4	I1	I2	EA
1	11	91	14	20	5	4	4	4	3	4	4	0
2	10	84	13	18		3	3	3		3	3
3	10	84	15	18		4	4	4		3	3
4	10	84	30	30		3	3	2		1	1
5	11	73	10	10	4	3	3	3	2	0	0	0
6	10	70	11	13		2	2	2		0	0
7	10	69	18	21		3	3	0		0	0
8	9	68	14	17		3	3
9	9	67	14	15		3	3
10	9	67	12	13		3	3
11	9	66	10	10		3	3
12	9	61	9	6		2	2
13	8	53	10
14	9	40	1	2		0	0
15	9	44	5	4		2	0
16	7	39	4
17	7	37	1
18	7	37	2
19	7	35	1
20	7	33	0

War just spun...

Us 5/6/14... Them 13/6/6

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MisterOz

War just spun...

Us 5/6/14... Them 13/6/6

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Are they all legitimate/engineered TH11s or some of them rushed, w/ or w/o wardens, etc

...

War time match ups is ridiculously toooooo loooooooong... why? 😔😣👎👎

...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slayer339

Are they all legitimate/engineered TH11s or some of them rushed, w/ or w/o wardens, etc

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Last random war was also so idiotic I made a video on it but didn't publish it as this new Change during the Maint Break we just had was going to Fix it some more. In that one we had 2/5/18 and they had 8/10/6.

All were Specifically Upgraded. Meaning, designed with one or two attacks in mind only. And all of these in our current war, all have wardens. Not maxed at 20. But that isn't the point. A base with Max air, max xbows times 3, half max point def for TH10 and half TH9 isn't Rushed and has no place sitting somewhere in the TH9s area.

Last one, they were all designed. This one looks to be about 50 percent designed and 50 percent rushed or badly engineered (like bottom 2 Th9s are defenseless with either no dark troops or level 1 dark troops only, really quite sad). In either case, we don't want to face this.

There is no joy bullying a defenseless base. There is no joy some TH11 garbage spam almost anything (eg, max miners with warden and extra spells) and wipe out a TH9 on our bases. It means, we don't have a hope to even get a single defense UNLESS they are so so very bad it isn't funny and that is why they upgraded ahead of time.

What joy do they get?

I fail to see what is so hard about adding one single final TH v TH check. Oh look, 5 TH11 vs 13, no match, move on. Why isn't that a thing? Why cant we have a No Dip option in our search? So even if we match like this, they can only attack our elevens and thus there is no advantage to trying to manipulate the war weight.

We just got a sweet match. Us: 10 th11. Them: 26 th11 in a 40v40 war just have to shake your head

Us 4 th11 eagle and warden
Them 8 th11 eagle and warden +2 engineered with warden th9 d

In a 15 man war Come on man this is garbage!

We have a few lower th9 & th8 rushed bases who are long time members of our clan. e.g teen heroes with mid th9 def and crappy troops. Top are mid to max th10s & Th11s.

The adjusted MM now recognises them as lopsided ? We have been bringing them to war as everyone wants to participate.

Been meeting a number of engineering clans. Some are those nasty max th11 heroes with th11 defences without IT & eagles sitting lower in the war lineup.

We had some terrible match ups after the initial mm algorith update. Then we had 5 really good one. Four had a slight advantage for us or them but the result could go either way, the 5th was an uncanny match for sameness.

unfortunately it couldn't last. Our latest is 1 th11 for us against 5 for them, same number of th10. No eagles either side, equal inferno count, but with the engineered th11 all of which have a single maxed troop and at least a small warden, they can put th11 against our th10 and th10 against our Th9. Then they can gang up for multiple goes on our single th11.

hopefully this latest war is an anomaly.

We have 6 TH9...they have 7 TH9 plus 2 TH10 (engineered) in a 15 man war. I think we're going to put goblins in the cc and call it a day

We haven't had a match in over 10 wars not even remotely close,
we don't even war now because of your matchmaking,
Thanks for messing it up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bkt26

Short of reading through 1.7k replies, can I have a quick consensus on how is war matching now (before coming update)?

Am I right to say:

1. For engineering clans, you'll get matched to other engineering clans. There might be severe mismatches but it's fair game since you chose this route.

2. For non engineering clans, matching has improved substantially and you won't get matched against engineering clans too often.

That is the sense I'm getting.

Please use general trends (say, more than half the time) over sufficient number of wars to comment and not base on occasional mismatches.

My leader has insisted that everyone engineers but I'm trying to convince him that it's not advantageous to do so anymore.

Thank you!

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Did you consider what you said in point one ('you chose this route ')? Looks like you just want it to be fair for you.... Even engineered bases have a right to expect a fair war matchup.

Your leader won't be able to make a fair decision based on a biased survey.

Make the matchmaking to where only specific townhall levels can ONLY ATTACK THEIR TOWNHALL LEVEL, not higher not lower... the builder base has nothing to do about war, why match it with the certain bases?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bkt26

Short of reading through 1.7k replies, can I have a quick consensus on how is war matching now (before coming update)?

Am I right to say:

1. For engineering clans, you'll get matched to other engineering clans. There might be severe mismatches but it's fair game since you chose this route.

2. For non engineering clans, matching has improved substantially and you won't get matched against engineering clans too often.

That is the sense I'm getting.

Please use general trends (say, more than half the time) over sufficient number of wars to comment and not base on occasional mismatches.

My leader has insisted that everyone engineers but I'm trying to convince him that it's not advantageous to do so anymore.

Thank you!

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so is it the improvement they have made? even the engineers not getting fair match at all, iwars are one sided nowadays.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wawa03

A good matchmaking algorithm if weighing things correctly really would have no need of a base weight for a town hall. Merely weighing those things that give the next town hall the advantage over the lower town hall enough would make it so town hall level wouldn't matter in the mma. Sc probably figures this as well it is just Sc fails to do this properly. We as players know what these things are. Defensively what these advantage are is obvious. Supercell has always failed to weigh ths offensive side correctly in conjunction with the defensive. A good mma would understand how valuable a warden and max bowitch troops are in war and weigh them properly they just don't.

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I believe that a fair matchup should take into account the attacking abilities of the players too. SC will lose players that are bored by running over enemies and weak attackers will lose interest because they get overrun. SC needs to provide a way to prevent sandbagging too. It's a complex thing we're asking for. Cut them some slack and expect several iterations before they get the best fit.

I’ve been patient over the last month to see how it all turns out and I must say the matchmaking is definitely WORSE. We are constantly getting lopsided matchups. Getting matched with multiple th11s when we have none and this is where we lose the war. The th11s can 3 star our th10s or at the very least get a higher % than we can on their top th10s. While their 10s are free to take out our 9s or get good scouts in for their 11 attacks.

Also, matchmaking does seem to take longer. Resetting the matchmaking over and over again after 10 or 15 minutes and then finally getting fed up and just letting it roll where it takes 30 minutes or more. And when we finally get it, we are always getting matched to engineered clans. Our last couple of war matchups(and I’ll list just the tops because that is where we are losing). We have 1 th10 and 3 th9s, they had 2 th10s and 2 th11s(their 11s were lopsided but had max troop cap and mid level wardens). Our current match up: We have 2 th10s, and 3 th9s. Enemy has 2 th10s, 2 th11s and 4 th9s...?????????

Occasionally we get a fair match up of town halls up top and we do usually win those but it is rare. It seems to me over the last month it has became rare to get a fair match up. It’s like it has flipped.....We use to occasionally get an unfair match up against engineering bases now its rare to get a fair one.

My clan is not liking the new algorithm at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MisterOz

Last random war was also so idiotic I made a video on it but didn't publish it as this new Change during the Maint Break we just had was going to Fix it some more. In that one we had 2/5/18 and they had 8/10/6.

All were Specifically Upgraded. Meaning, designed with one or two attacks in mind only. And all of these in our current war, all have wardens. Not maxed at 20. But that isn't the point. A base with Max air, max xbows times 3, half max point def for TH10 and half TH9 isn't Rushed and has no place sitting somewhere in the TH9s area.

Last one, they were all designed. This one looks to be about 50 percent designed and 50 percent rushed or badly engineered (like bottom 2 Th9s are defenseless with either no dark troops or level 1 dark troops only, really quite sad). In either case, we don't want to face this.

There is no joy bullying a defenseless base. There is no joy some TH11 garbage spam almost anything (eg, max miners with warden and extra spells) and wipe out a TH9 on our bases. It means, we don't have a hope to even get a single defense UNLESS they are so so very bad it isn't funny and that is why they upgraded ahead of time.

What joy do they get?

I fail to see what is so hard about adding one single final TH v TH check. Oh look, 5 TH11 vs 13, no match, move on. Why isn't that a thing? Why cant we have a No Dip option in our search? So even if we match like this, they can only attack our elevens and thus there is no advantage to trying to manipulate the war weight.

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Is this THE Mister Clash? Love your channel - one of my faves for sure. Even like your corny jokes 😄

If the matchups are already horrendously long, adding more constraints won't improve it. I see a lot of complaints about how there's "no chance" with this matchup that win or lose by a couple stars or by percentage points. I think that SC should start with clan level and total wins when they filter the matchups and then add constraints in. I think that would help sort out a lot of the inequities.

Mister, what's brown and sticky? A stick!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MisterOz

I fail to see what is so hard about adding one single final TH v TH check. Oh look, 5 TH11 vs 13, no match, move on. Why isn't that a thing? Why cant we have a No Dip option in our search? So even if we match like this, they can only attack our elevens and thus there is no advantage to trying to manipulate the war weight.

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Dorsan is pretty convincing with his numbers that it would be too hard to require exact matches of th11s. I do think they could go with only 1 difference in th11s at 10v10, 2 at 15, 3 at 20, something like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mark0

I believe that a fair matchup should take into account the attacking abilities of the players too. SC will lose players that are bored by running over enemies and weak attackers will lose interest because they get overrun. SC needs to provide a way to prevent sandbagging too. It's a complex thing we're asking for. Cut them some slack and expect several iterations before they get the best fit.

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As long as the war record is the only thing we are fighting for I totally disagree. Skill shouldn't be taken into account for the match. Skill should be what determines the winner. Now, if they started a clan war trophy system it would be totally different.

I'm liking these changes. We are a clan that refused to get fake numbers with engineering manipulation.
We are getting short search times and fair matches against other real warriors. Well done supercell.

The changes are ♥♥♥♥, while I'm not in this war, we have 5 th 10s in war vs their 4 th11s and 9 th10s, all our bases are natural, no engineered, they have a few. Garbage! Whoever thought this new MM was good, should be FIRED!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DavePorky

I'm liking these changes. We are a clan that refused to get fake numbers with engineering manipulation.
We are getting short search times and fair matches against other real warriors. Well done supercell.

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Agreed. We're seeing the same thing since the update

We're seeing the Hyper-engineered get a big advantage now. Accounts that gemmed maxed a single attack style it seems. So the Enemy's 24 th11s are making a joke of us with 2 th11s .... yes. That is correct. 40-40 war. We laughed it off from the start pretty much. Putting up a fight :)

So after 198 pages of 99% complaints, is supercell gonna fix the engineered problem? Or is that the only strategy option they want us to use for good?

IMHO, the only way to address the war matching is to force defensive upgrades (levels too) prior to upgrading a town hall. There really is no other way, as people will always find and exploit the system to gain an edge. If SC did that, then the only way to game it would be to include some low TH levels at the bottom to offset the higher levels.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rmiller

IMHO, the only way to address the war matching is to force defensive upgrades (levels too) prior to upgrading a town hall. There really is no other way, as people will always find and exploit the system to gain an edge. If SC did that, then the only way to game it would be to include some low TH levels at the bottom to offset the higher levels.

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Nope. There are ways to do it if they create 2 separate war weights, offense and defense. If they make the total weight a max function of the offense and defense, it will force the ideal war weight as a balanced offense and defense. If they build offense too quickly, then their defense won't impact the war weight. If they build defense too quickly, then the offense won't impact a war weight.

As an example, let's say a townhall 11 has a weight offense of 10,000 and weight defense of 10,000. Then the total weight would be max(10000,10000)=10,000

If a th9.11 has a weight offense of 10,000 and a weight defense of 6,000. Then the total weight would be max(10000,6000)=10000. The th9.11 would be the same weight as a th11.

If a max th9 has a weight offense of 6,000 and a weight defense of 6,000. Then the total weight would be max(6000,6000)=6000. As soon as they upgrade to th10 and upgrade their offense, the total weight of the th10 could never match a th9.

I have accounts in a clan with lots of engineered bases, we're struggling to actually get a match now. I have an account in another clan with some rushed bases but mostly fairly balanced, and also an account in a regular clan and we're matching more engineered TH11s in both. So I'm not quite sure who the match making is supposed to benefit these days as it hasn't made things fairer for any of my clans

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rmiller

IMHO, the only way to address the war matching is to force defensive upgrades (levels too) prior to upgrading a town hall. There really is no other way, as people will always find and exploit the system to gain an edge. If SC did that, then the only way to game it would be to include some low TH levels at the bottom to offset the higher levels.

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I agree, the base should at least have the previous th level defence, meaning if you are a th9 you must have max th8 defences before moving up to th10. Or if you are a th10 you must have th9 maxed bases before moving to th11. It could be a rule simply for war. So yes there will be some engineering but not drastic enough to create lopsided matches.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rmiller

IMHO, the only way to address the war matching is to force defensive upgrades (levels too) prior to upgrading a town hall. There really is no other way, as people will always find and exploit the system to gain an edge. If SC did that, then the only way to game it would be to include some low TH levels at the bottom to offset the higher levels.

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100% agree, except it doesn't have to be forced when you build your base (being forced to level and build every defenses to access the higher townhall), only to be eligible for war would do the trick.

The 100% weight thing theory is all nice but after years of experimentation, maybe we could call it a day and trash it? Also having defenses enforced AND weight calculated isn't incompatible either (so perma max bases wouldn't match premature bases using the same roster for example).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rmiller

IMHO, the only way to address the war matching is to force defensive upgrades (levels too) prior to upgrading a town hall. There really is no other way, as people will always find and exploit the system to gain an edge. If SC did that, then the only way to game it would be to include some low TH levels at the bottom to offset the higher levels.

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Yeah you are 100℅ right.Like in bh you cannot upgrade your bh before building defenses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prosper12

I agree, the base should at least have the previous th level defence, meaning if you are a th9 you must have max th8 defences before moving up to th10. Or if you are a th10 you must have th9 maxed bases before moving to th11. It could be a rule simply for war. So yes there will be some engineering but not drastic enough to create lopsided matches.

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Yeah I agree too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JanoLapin

100% agree, except it doesn't have to be forced when you build your base (being forced to level and build every defenses to access the higher townhall), only to be eligible for war would do the trick.

The 100% weight thing theory is all nice but after years of experimentation, maybe we could call it a day and trash it? Also having defenses enforced AND weight calculated isn't incompatible either (so perma max bases wouldn't match premature bases using the same roster for example).

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Yeah I also agree 100℅ with you both.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rmiller

IMHO, the only way to address the war matching is to force defensive upgrades (levels too) prior to upgrading a town hall. There really is no other way, as people will always find and exploit the system to gain an edge. If SC did that, then the only way to game it would be to include some low TH levels at the bottom to offset the higher levels.

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That would be amazing! But it's already gone too far. Just putting a weight on a th level would donclose to the same though

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rmiller

IMHO, the only way to address the war matching is to force defensive upgrades (levels too) prior to upgrading a town hall. There really is no other way, as people will always find and exploit the system to gain an edge. If SC did that, then the only way to game it would be to include some low TH levels at the bottom to offset the higher levels.

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Yes. I agree. And make the ones that are currently engineered bases ineligible until they build defences

20 man war 16 17 this war weak heroes 11s max air jumping up 3 starring our high bases... their mirrors are weak 9s which cant do that. Same story different day............................................... .....................

My opinion they need to do something they need to do it soon there's almost 200 pages of people here upset yet they do nothing also just in our Network there are so many complaints going on it's ridiculous and it's the same story lopsided matches Wars that are no fun. How could after 5 years they just suddenly lose control of how things are supposed to be. We may be looking at the death of Clash of Clans

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rmiller

IMHO, the only way to address the war matching is to force defensive upgrades (levels too) prior to upgrading a town hall. There really is no other way, as people will always find and exploit the system to gain an edge. If SC did that, then the only way to game it would be to include some low TH levels at the bottom to offset the higher levels.

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I think they could encourage people to do this without forcing people out of war. This was my idea from the idea subforum:

https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...ever-been-made

Basically I suggested that an optional matchmaker could be introduced that only allows you to have the base and troops of the last townhall you've placed all structures for. So if you're a th9.11, you'd be given a th9 war base with all defenses, troops, and heroes capped at th9 levels. If youre a defenseless th11 youd be given a th2 war base with th2 troops until you placed the rest of your defenses.

The last 3 wars for us have been spot on. No sign of an engineered base or dubious roster.

Our line-up (all regular bases)

1 TH10
8 TH9
1 TH8

Won't go into details but latest matchup for us is as follows.

Us

th11 x 0
th10 x 5 (3max 2 new)
th9 x 6
th8 x 4

opp

th11 x 3 (all have max troops and one has th8 defences)
Th10 x 3
th9 x 2
th8 x2
th7 x 4
th6 x 1

6 attacks from max troops from there th11s is a heck of an advantage for a team to have against th10s

It's been over 95 hours since we could find a war in one of our clans... we've tried 20 25 and 30x with each 'no war match found 'error. these continued 'improvements' are just awful.... I've reported it in game - a few other clans are also not able to match...

These same exact accounts have been used for years without a problem... suddenly they cant get a war...

very strange.

I dont get it, have had nothing but fair matches since last update. The only time where TH11's not evenly matched was when other clan had 2 extra 10.5's (in return I had an extra eagle). Have noticed a massive difference between now & a couple of weeks back when was quite often 1-2 eagles down. Run 10vs 10,
2 TH11, 1 TH10, 2 TH9, 3 TH8, 1 TH6 & 1 TH3. All max apart from 1 TH11 (107 weight, 45/42/20 heros, eagle & warden planted) & the 2 accounts down bottom.

Current win streak is 26 so expecting to match with tougher clans but up top (where it counts) matching has been pretty much spot on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2222

I'm confident that you didn't get an infraction for a benign post, but note that discussing/complaining about a moderator action like an infraction is itself against the rules.

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Note the subject, is SC changing the game and the action is monetary protest ,the mod is neither discussed nor complained about, only referenced as a point of decision.

Hello

quick feedback on the latest patch of the mm - it is horrible.

Last war we had we had 5 TH11s vs 11. Only 3 of the opponent TH11s had EA (vs 1 on our side) and the rest had various defenses between th7 and th10. I openly admit we have a few lopsided bases in our roster but I don't think it should mean that we get such a horrible mismatch.
The war before that we had 4 TH11 players vs 9. I can't understand how these matchups can even happen...

Overall - bring back the previous state of mm, this new one is scary...gives us the biggest mismatches ever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ditch

Our war match yesterday also has the opposing clan with 3 TH11s, but all the TH11s have offense that is overall weaker than a max TH10, mostly due to low hero levels and not having TH11 troops. Also there are no eagles on their side. Their side has an advantage on bottom, with 1 more TH9, but we have 1 more base with infernos than they do. Because the other clan has rushed TH11s to get the Warden (without maxing it out), they stand almost no chance against us.

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So, not only did they win, but they won by 3 stars. If we had done a better job attacking, we could have won, but their TH11s had more than enough firepower. Okay, so I guess that was "fair", even though we had spent 10x as much time grinding DE while they just had some rushed TH11s with a handful of max troops.

But now we're matched up against a clan with 5 TH11s to our 1, and that's straight garbage.

A higher TH level with 1 or 2 max troops (e.g miners, drags) can often stomp bases a TH level down, even with weak heroes. If possible, having a large weight attached to the FIRST of a given set of troops at a TH level (miners, drags, hogs) followed by a lower offensive weight increase with subsequent troops, would penalize TH rushers in war and prevent some of the uneven matchups we're seeing.

I’m usually involved in small wars of 10 or 15. Every war comes down to the top one or two bases. All other bases are always 3 strarred. In my opinion, the heroes have to become a bigger part of the matchmaking because they are usually the deciding factor in who wins – not always with the King and Queen, but almost always if a warden is involved. When an engineered TH11 base with hardly any upgraded defenses is taking out well balanced TH9 and TH10s, how is that an even match and how does that supposed to make people interested in continuing playing the game. A TH11 ranked 2 in 10 v 10 war with level 7 drags, level 7 lightening and a level 5 warden is able to easily beat all TH9s and most TH10s. Yes, they can easily be 3 starred, but their offensive power allows them to take out 2 bases versus easily beating their one base – no fun. A clan with no Wardens shouldn’t get matched with a clan with Wardens – bottom line. If you don’t want to play at that level (TH11), the programming shouldn’t force you to. The matchmaking is encouraging more and more engineering and rushed bases. What would happen if the matchmaking was based on offense capability with less emphasis on the defense? Or, why can’t the war matchups focus on the top bases in the war instead of trying to even out the whole war?

So I already know many of you will say good riddance and I understand that. Just thought you all should know that if your play style is outside what the most vocal group wants you will be asked to leave the game no matter how much money or time you have put into the game. I lost many a good in game friends in the December update and it looks as though I have just lost another good group. So sad. Let the flaming begin.

LOL wut?
.....

When I was 6 I took karate classes at the local community college. I was too nervous to ask my instructor for permission to use the bathroom and held it the entire class. At the very end when we were doing a meditating moment I started doing the potty dance. By the time I mustered up the courage to ask....it was too late. My dad had to bring me another pair of sweatpants from work, and the class was forced to move about 50 feet away from the puddle I had created.

This story made about as much sense as your post did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ellimist325

When I was 6 I took karate classes at the local community college. I was too nervous to ask my instructor for permission to use the bathroom and held it the entire class. At the very end when we were doing a meditating moment I started doing the potty dance. By the time I mustered up the courage to ask....it was too late. My dad had to bring me another pair of sweatpants from work, and the class was forced to move about 50 feet away from the puddle I had created.

This story made about as much sense as your post did.

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So...it made a lot of sense? Cause I understood your story just fine: you had a classic case of embarrassing yourself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tominator2

So I already know many of you will say good riddance and I understand that. Just thought you all should know that if your play style is outside what the most vocal group wants you will be asked to leave the game no matter how much money or time you have put into the game. I lost many a good in game friends in the December update and it looks as though I have just lost another good group. So sad. Let the flaming begin.

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is this your way of saying you got caught cheating and were banned?