Clan War Matchmaking Improvements

https://forum-content.supercell.com/...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bigtone2001 https://forum-content.supercell.com/...post-right.png

War #12

Us
1-11 TH11 with EA
12-19 TH10 with inferno
20-22 TH10 no inferno
23-25 TH9

Them
1-14 TH11 with EA
15 TH10 with inferno
16 TH11 no inferno or EA, Max Heroes + most troops maxed
17 TH11 no inferno or EA, Max Q+W + most troops maxed
18 TH11 no inferno or EA, lv2 W, only valks maxed
19 TH10 no inferno
20 TH11 (th9 defences), Max Heroes + most troops maxed
21 TH10 no inferno
22 TH9
23 TH11 (TH7 defences except 1 inferno), Max loons, lv3 hound, lv6 warden lv5 k+Q
24 TH8
25 TH7

Clearly Engineered Clan (both individually and roster)

They have 3 extra EAs. 8 extra Wardens, 6+ lots of maxed troops.
OK, we have a defence advantage lower down, but they have advantage at top, and offence advantage.

So this is 10 out of 12 on the new MM where we have been out numbered on TH11 bases.



Result 56v63
No surprises, we lost this. Admittedly we were poor this war, but even if we had been on form, we still would've lost. We thought with all good attacks we would've got 61.

So after 10 from 12 wars on the new MM complete, we started the 13th search, and guess what, yet again out numbered on TH11s.

Us
1-9 TH11 with EA
10 TH11 no EA
11-15 TH10 with both inferno
16-18 TH10 no inferno (recent TH upgrade)
19-20 TH9

them
1-11 TH11 with EA
12 TH11 no EA
13 TH10
14 TH11 no EA or inferno, lv13 warden, Max troops
15 TH11, no EA or inferno, lv 11 warden, Max Healer, Miner, Valk, Bowler.
16 TH10, no inferno.
17 TH9
18 TH10
19 TH11, lv 5 warden. Nothing maxed
20 TH8

Their #12 is identical to our #10, so they have 2 TH11s with EA advantage at top. Hopefully we can handle these 2.
13 down should be easy to 3* for us. So it will come down to 20v28 TH11 attacks. (Not counting #19 as nothing maxed)

By no means an even war (10v15 TH11s), but it could be winnable for us.

C'mon SC hurry up and fix this.

Dear Darian,

I have a suggestion to improve the war matchmaking algorithm to address the issue with engineered bases.

The engineered bases tend to have this peculiarity - weak defence and strong offence. I understand that supercell has defence and offence weights calculated for any base participating in wars.

Let's use the case of a max TH10, both offensively and defensively. And let's say for a max TH10, its defensive weight is 90,000 and offensive weight is 20,000.

And let's say in the case of an engineered TH10, with a defensive weight of 20,000 (22% of a max defensive TH10), and an offensive weight of 18,000 (90% of a max offensive TH10).

During war matchmaking, this engineered base should "suffer" a penalty/handicap for so significantly engineering its base. This can be achieved by pegging its defensive weight to a certain percentage of its offensive weight.

For example, going back to the above engineered base, its defensive weight can be pegged to its offensive weight by a certain percentage. Using numbers to better illustrate the point, since this base's offensive weight is 90% (18,000 out of a max 20,000) of a max TH10, its defensive weight could be bumped up to 81% of a max defensive TH10, which in this case would be 72,900, instead of 20,000 (or only 22% of a max defensive TH10). This engineered base's total adjusted war weight would then be 90,900, instead of the unadjusted 38,000 (20,000 + 18,000).

The 81% is purely an example. It could be calculated based on X-9% or 90% of X, where X is the measure of how strong offensively the base is (in this example, it's 90% of a max TH10). And how closely a base's defensive weight should be pegged to its offensive weight could be fine tuned over time. For example, if X-9% is too harsh on the engineered bases, maybe it could be reduced to X-12%.

The same handicap can (and should) be applied to a reverse-engineered base, where it has a strong defence but weak offence. In this case, the base will instead suffer a penalty/handicap on its offensive weight.

By adding this war weight adjustment to your war matchmaking algorithm, an unengineered/normal base would not suffer any penalty/handicap in the calculation of war weights. And the more engineered a base is, the bigger the penalty it suffers. Over time, it should deter the ridiculously engineered clans to continue in their ways and level the playing field in wars for all parties.

If you have read all the above, a big thank you to you!

sleekcider

After 27 months of non-stop warring, we just can't do it any more. We are a maxer clan getting matched against increasingly difficult engineering clans who not only have more EAs and tougher villages at the top, but also have far more TH11 offenses than us.

In our last two wars we fought all-out and lost by 10 stars in a 25x25 war and then lost by 4 stars in a 25x25 war where the enemy withheld 3 TH11 attacks to make the score look artificially close.

We are not being given a chance to win. Our war log shows 23 wins and 27 losses, but we are getting more and more red.

It just became a exercise in futility and a matter of subjecting ourselves to cruelty to press that button to start a new war. So we decided to stop doing it.

We can't bear facing any more violently unfair matches.

Plague of Frogs, CommonCause.

I posted our recent matchups about a week ago. Here's how it stands now:

US VS THEM

9/4/7 vs 8/10/2
10/7/8 vs 13/7/5
11/6/8 vs 15/6/4
13/8/9 vs 16/10/2/2
14/8/8 vs 21/4/2/3
10/7/8 vs 12/10/1/2
13/6/11 vs 11/9/10
7/5/8 vs 9/5/6
11/7/12 vs 13/3/14
12/8/10 vs 12/8/10
12/6/12 vs 12/7/11
(newest to oldest, after MM update)

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Originally Posted by PlagueOfFrogs

AWe are a maxer clan getting matched against increasingly difficult engineering clans who not only have more EAs and tougher villages at the top...

We are not being given a chance to win. Our war log shows 23 wins and 27 losses...

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I don't think we are using the same definition of engineering.

And 23 - 27 May not be ideal, but it is not terrible. Keep warring and it will get better.

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Originally Posted by PapaTroll

I don't think we are using the same definition of engineering.

And 23 - 27 May not be ideal, but it is not terrible. Keep warring and it will get better.

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Given that we are an exceptionally diligent clan, take all our attacks, learn and practice new attacks, and pick our targets with strategy to benefit the team, what should our record be? We are definitely better than average even if you have to take my word for it.

Given that in the last 100 days we have a middling record, we undoubtedly work harder and have more skill than the other middling clans who are now are peers. We haven't been driven down to a losing record by losing on equal terms to fairly matched opponents, we have been driven down to this by being fed a steady diet of engineered clans who have such superior offense levels that they don't have to be better than us. All they have to do is take all their attacks and we lose by being outnumbered.

We have sharpened our skills and worked hard in our wars so that we can have a winning record we can be proud of, and if SuperCell would only re-level the playing field, we would.

The advantage has been given to engineered clans in an accerlating manner. Offensenses are not being factored into the matching algorithm based on what we are seeing, but rather less.

We are well above average in skill and hard work. We aren't the best and shouldn't win every war, but we should certainly not be driven down to a losing record.

As a clan, we know it. We know what is grossly unfair and we had to finally draw the line and stop subjecting ourselves to the matching abuse.

Why is it so hard to just make the town hall the heaviest weight by far thus ensuring th11 will be matched with th11 and so on. Make the levels numerically so high there is no possible way to engineer a village to match against someone so much lower than them yet inferior in offense. The enemy #11 in our current war is a th11 with max heroes and war troops only and max camps, our #11 Is a th9 with 17 18 heroes max def and troops.

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Originally Posted by PlagueOfFrogs

After 27 months of non-stop warring, we just can't do it any more. We are a maxer clan getting matched against increasingly difficult engineering clans who not only have more EAs and tougher villages at the top, but also have far more TH11 offenses than us.

In our last two wars we fought all-out and lost by 10 stars in a 25x25 war and then lost by 4 stars in a 25x25 war where the enemy withheld 3 TH11 attacks to make the score look artificially close.

We are not being given a chance to win. Our war log shows 23 wins and 27 losses, but we are getting more and more red.

It just became a exercise in futility and a matter of subjecting ourselves to cruelty to press that button to start a new war. So we decided to stop doing it.

We can't bear facing any more violently unfair matches.

Plague of Frogs, CommonCause.

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Would be interesting to know the spread of TH in your clan?
Sounds like there must be TH11s at the top, what's the lowest TH at the bottom
If you're taking anything TH8 and below you're going to get matched with engineered clans

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Originally Posted by spud88fan

Why is it so hard to just make the town hall the heaviest weight by far thus ensuring th11 will be matched with th11 and so on. Make the levels numerically so high there is no possible way to engineer a village to match against someone so much lower than them yet inferior in offense. The enemy #11 in our current war is a th11 with max heroes and war troops only and max camps, our #11 Is a th9 with 17 18 heroes max def and troops.

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I guess that makes too much sense. ;-)

I posted our last match up 6/6 engineered clans after the update. We just finished that war and lost by 2 stars. It helps that we knew a variety of attacks and they pretty much only barfed dragons.

We do take pleasure in that we are much better attackers than they are. Even dropping a th level, some of them put on such laughable attacked that they didn't 3.

I guess since they pretty much only knew how to use dragons, they assumed others would be that way too. They had minimal ground def and as high as possible air so we hogged most of it.

We still prefer an equal match. As soon as we level up as a clan, we are camping there until the mm is fixed.

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Originally Posted by PhilISuppose

Would be interesting to know the spread of TH in your clan?
Sounds like there must be TH11s at the top, what's the lowest TH at the bottom
If you're taking anything TH8 and below you're going to get matched with engineered clans

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I used to believe that about the spread until we started sending one of our spare accounts to see how other clans operate. Since then, we have seen some strange lineups with near perfect matches (you know the random first 10 in get to war pick).

At this point, I'm thinking it has more to do with the win/loss of the clan and the math used in relation to that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhilISuppose

Would be interesting to know the spread of TH in your clan?
Sounds like there must be TH11s at the top, what's the lowest TH at the bottom
If you're taking anything TH8 and below you're going to get matched with engineered clans

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Yes, we have several TH11s and a couple of totally max villages. I'm a totally max TH11 with 1600 war stars and have crossed the 6000 trophy level.

We sometimes take villages to war that are smaller than TH9 in order to make numbers, but I think it is only a myth that sticking to TH9 and higher protects you. In our final war we had only TH11-TH9 maxer villages and got hit with an extreem engineering clan.

We were a clan with an 80% win record until about 6 months ago. At that time we had a record of 245-61, but since then we have gone 40-45. How does a clan made up of folks who can be winning at a 80% clip get knocked down to a losing record? Be real--I'm here to tell you that we are the same folks that had the skill, diligence, and war strategy to achieve a 245-61 record. I will grant you that as we got bigger and started facing tougher competition that our record should tail of some, but the ONLY reason we have been knocked all the way down to a losing record is because we are getting a steady diet of unfair, unwinnable matchups against engineered clans.

I have never know so bad match ups. We have just got the latest match 30v30. We have 4 th11 accounts 1 with no eagle as only just gone to 11. They have 7 th11 all with eagles and almost max troops. Since the update we have lost 80% of our wars and most match ups have been like this. I would love to know how sc are working this out. We have a win ratio of 79% before this update so it's completely puzzeling how it's adding these matches.

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Originally Posted by PlagueOfFrogs

I think it is only a myth that sticking to TH9 and higher protects you. In our final war we had only TH11-TH9 maxer villages and got hit with an extreem engineering clan.

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I think it helps, but it certainly doesn't guarantee anything.

And the thread is still going.....

Since latest matchmaking algorithm update, we have gone from winning 65% of the time to losing 70% of the time.

Last war lineup:
Us vs Them
TH 11 = 0 vs 7 (five of seven had GWs)
TH 10 = 6 vs 4
TH9 = 7 vs 5
TH8 = 4 vs 4
TH7 = 5 vs 3
TH6 = 3 vs 2

In a 25v25 war, we lost by two but they had 100% destruction and how can any war be considered fair when the #18 and #14 opponents are three starring the opponent #3 and #4. They didn't even use 13 attacks. And still had 100%. If anybody can explain how that is fair, I'd love to hear the logic. I can provide more details if needed.

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Originally Posted by PlagueOfFrogs

Yes, we have several TH11s and a couple of totally max villages. I'm a totally max TH11 with 1600 war stars and have crossed the 6000 trophy level.

We sometimes take villages to war that are smaller than TH9 in order to make numbers, but I think it is only a myth that sticking to TH9 and higher protects you. In our final war we had only TH11-TH9 maxer villages and got hit with an extreem engineering clan.

We were a clan with an 80% win record until about 6 months ago. At that time we had a record of 245-61, but since then we have gone 40-45. How does a clan made up of folks who can be winning at a 80% clip get knocked down to a losing record? Be real--I'm here to tell you that we are the same folks that had the skill, diligence, and war strategy to achieve a 245-61 record. I will grant you that as we got bigger and started facing tougher competition that our record should tail of some, but the ONLY reason we have been knocked all the way down to a losing record is because we are getting a steady diet of unfair, unwinnable matchups against engineered clans.

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We had a similar experience as villages moved to higher town halls. When TH9s ruled the roost it was easy to get a win. As more members moved up to TH10 and a few 11s it is a whole new level of competition. It is as if the people playing higher town halls have more experience and practice.

3 stars are harder to get too. Used to be in 25v25 we knew it would take 70 plus to win. Scores now are in the mid sixties.

SC, your War Matching Algorithm Change is a Joke. We've encountered 3 clans with Engineered bases in 3 out of last 4 Wars. And 1 Clan had multiple TH11s with Max Dragons and many TH10 with Miners when we had only 1 TH10 and no Engineered players. How is this an improvement? I've never seen more Engineered and Defense Light bases than I'm seeing right now.
Thanks SC for fixing the problem.

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Originally Posted by SoKEngineer

Stop with the whinging, matchmaking is perfectly fine.
Engineered clans have weak bases, defendless even better. If u guys are maxing your bases it would make life tough for them.

If anything you would have the advantage as they try to 3 star your TH11 with EA.

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duh. Read my post above. Sure, defenceless bases can be cleared easily. The point I made was that it is no fun to clear a defenceless base. What's the point of having a max th9 when your choice of target is a max th11, or a defenceless th11?There's only a need for a finite number of scouts at the top, then it's down to the challenge of clearing a one cannon base.....a dozen times or more, 14 times in the case of our last war. There's no satisfaction in doing that.

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Originally Posted by PapaTroll

As more members moved up to TH10 and a few 11s it is a whole new level of competition. It is as if the people playing higher town halls have more experience and practice.

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LOLs

Thanks for that

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Originally Posted by PlagueOfFrogs

Yes, we have several TH11s and a couple of totally max villages. I'm a totally max TH11 with 1600 war stars and have crossed the 6000 trophy level.

We sometimes take villages to war that are smaller than TH9 in order to make numbers, but I think it is only a myth that sticking to TH9 and higher protects you. In our final war we had only TH11-TH9 maxer villages and got hit with an extreem engineering clan.

We were a clan with an 80% win record until about 6 months ago. At that time we had a record of 245-61, but since then we have gone 40-45. How does a clan made up of folks who can be winning at a 80% clip get knocked down to a losing record? Be real--I'm here to tell you that we are the same folks that had the skill, diligence, and war strategy to achieve a 245-61 record. I will grant you that as we got bigger and started facing tougher competition that our record should tail of some, but the ONLY reason we have been knocked all the way down to a losing record is because we are getting a steady diet of unfair, unwinnable matchups against engineered clans.

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Unless your clan is very strange it would have been a VERY different clan 5 months ago, both in the members and in the levels of those members. Different TH spread.

Clans win 50% of their wars on average
You're winning slightly less than 50% of your wars

Perhaps your clan is slightly lower than average (from your record I don't believe this)
OR
The matchmaking isn't favouring your clan.

Frankly though, close to a 50% W:L record is what most clans should expect

I think most people are not properly stating the imbalance problem with the defenceless bases....
While I'm going to use a fictional scenario, this is roughly equivalent to how most of our recent matchups have gone

Side 1: 1-2 max or near max TH11 with EA, Inferno, 3-5, newish TH11 with inferno, some maxed troops, no EA, 6-8, near max TH10, 9-12 mid-low TH10, 13-20 TH9 and down

side 2: 1-2 max or near max TH11 with EA, Inferno. 3-5, TH11 with inferno, some maxed troops, no EA, 6-7 max TH10, 8-10 TH11 without inferno/EA, 11-15 TH9 and down, 16 - 20 defenceless TH11 with one max troop composition, GW.

So some people say.... who cares, you're going to clear 3 down anyway, so it's fair. But look at how much harder clan 1 has to work at that clear than clan 2. In clan 2 those defenceless 11's at the bottom move up and clear from #5 to 10 or so, allowing their TH10's to hit lower and guarantee 3, and then also leaving 6 - 8 TH11 hits on the top 2 (or maybe more). By the time they've had 2 or 3 cracks at it then can figure out the base. Clan 1 on the other hand has to hit down all the way, leaving most likely one chance at each of the top 2. If there's any less than perfect hits there's no backup.
Even if clan 1 wins (and we have still won wars like this) that doesn't mean that the match was even.

The only way to fix this is to weight those TH11's at the bottom according to how much they contribute to the war, rather than a simple addition score on which troops have been upgraded.

You still have a lot to work on, we are not an engineering clan at all and we haven't had a fair match since the last update, it's so bad that when we do start a war we just let the other clan have your loot, we don't even bother attacking because a max th 11 can't be taken by a th 10 and a th 7 can't take a th 9 unless you are living inside some dream world, I've given up on war as its completely useless to even try

we just got the worst mismatch i think i have ever seen , i can't even put into words how bad the match making has been . If anyone wants to come by and see this unbelievable match up of 15 TH 11s to 4 , let me know i'll throw you our clan tag .

Literally nothing has improved, concerning engineered bases. We're recently encountering worse clans than ever. Last few opponents have been engineered top to bottom (th8s with Grand Wardens and maxed valkryies).

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Originally Posted by Skrags

Just to play devils advocate here, as far as I'm aware SC haven't increased offence values...yet, they just stated they had more 'flexibility' to do so!:)






You can indeed, but you are not getting a response from the SC development team directly, it's an outsourced feedback system.
The Head Developer is not busy on his keyboard responding to the 1000s and 1000s of 'in game support' queries/questions that are asked every day!:)

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True, but the support staff have regular Q and A sessions with the development team. At least according to one who replied to me. He advised me to complain on the forums, but also complain direct so that the support staff have match making at the top of their agenda when inter acting with the dev team.

We are on a non stop losing streak since MM update. Prior to the update we were 66% win. Now 60% of our wars are full sweeps against us. You know something is broken if a majority of wars is a full sweep. We sometimes get full sweeps... maybe 2-3 times in the last 3 years of clan wars.

The thing that is killing us is we are facing 1-3 max th11s. We have a few baby th11s.

WAR matching making system has gotten way more worse.

Last war we have faced 6 TH11's vs 11 Max Th11s and below no11 enemy had a roster full of engineers.

This war we increased our max TH11s to 9 and we are matched against 15 max TH11s and 3 10.5 bases. enemies no 22, 24, 27,29,30 ,34,35,39,40,45 are all engineered accounts with max TH11 troops and heroes

Our second ridiculous matchup in a row. Last war we had 3 th10s they had 6 th10s. This war we have 1 TH11and 3th10s they have 4 th11s and 7 th10s. What is going on Supercell!?

have you heard of the phrase
things get worser and worser before getting better
supercell knows what it does
be patient

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Originally Posted by NaturalFlux

We are on a non stop losing streak since MM update. Prior to the update we were 66% win. Now 60% of our wars are full sweeps against us. You know something is broken if a majority of wars is a full sweep. We sometimes get full sweeps... maybe 2-3 times in the last 3 years of clan wars.

The thing that is killing us is we are facing 1-3 max th11s. We have a few baby th11s.

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Are your TH11's rushed bases? If 60% of your wars (post MM changes) are Perfect Wars (100%) and you have a few TH11's then that suggests that either your opponents are very good attackers or your bases are rushed to get the Grand Warden.

Most of the complaints I read are about TH10s facing TH11's, not big TH11's v baby TH11's!:unsure:

If we take one engineered base into war we seem to get put in the engineered pile. But we roll with the punches

First time poster here, I've registered just to add to the feedback and pass on the thoughts of me and my clan since the matchmaking changes.

In our experiences of the changes, we have seen extremely unfair matchmaking. Our clan only do 15 v 15 wars and keep pretty much the same lineup apart from the odd change here and there. We only use th10s, th9s and th8s but every war since the changes has seen us matched up against clans with multiple th11s. The current war we are in now the opposition have 4 x th11s. Last war the opposition had 5x th11s and each time they of course have max troops such as max dragons, bowlers, hounds, loons.

At this moment, wars are becoming unplayable for us due to the imbalance in the matchmaking as it's pretty tough to even come close to being able to keeping up with these clans as they are easily 3 starring our max th10s with max dragons whilst we are struggling to get stars on th11s.

We are not an engineered clan but do have bases that are midway between town halls but currently upgrading and also have bases that are max but it seems the matchmaking is mistaking that as us being engineered which is not the case but even so, it still shouldn'tbe pairing us up with clans with multiple th11s which is clearly unfair.


If if anyone would like to jump into our clan and take a look you'd be more than welcome.

thanks for reading ��

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Originally Posted by Kylekyle123

we just got the worst mismatch i think i have ever seen , i can't even put into words how bad the match making has been . If anyone wants to come by and see this unbelievable match up of 15 TH 11s to 4 , let me know i'll throw you our clan tag .

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At least you have some 11s, we don't even have an 11 in the clan and we got matched with 2 11s. Maxed dragon and all the spells really bully th9s.

Same here, we don't have any th11s in wars, only th10s but getting matched up v multiple th11s.

Just wanted to update with the current match we're seeing. In a 10v10, our lineup: TH10, TH9.5, 3 TH9s, 5 TH8s.

Their lineup: TH10, TH10.5, TH9.5, TH9, (TH11 with TH9 def), TH8, TH8, (TH11 with TH8 defenses), TH8, TH10 with TH8 defenses.

We see fairer matches when we include an engineered base, how on Earth is this a good match.

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Originally Posted by jhingu100

have you heard of the phrase
things get worser and worser before getting better
supercell knows what it does
be patient

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I have heard of this phrase. But it is NEVER applied to customer service. There is never a company that puts out a product and then tells its customer base, "Ya I know it is broken, but please trust us, we are listening to you and we will fix it sometime."

There is a very good reason why mm is getting worse! Less clans are willing to do a search in this current climate having been burnt by a poor algorithm. Less clans in the mix= greater likelihood of a mismatch!

We have stopped searching for wars due to this matchmaking, we got match with
1 th11 with max th10 defenses + 2 th11s with 9.5 defenses + rest th9s n th8s while we had th9.5 as our top player rest mixture of th9s n th8s(none engineered or rushed) but this matchmaking are making things worst for non rushed bases

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Originally Posted by Sqwook

There is a very good reason why mm is getting worse! Less clans are willing to do a search in this current climate having been burnt by a poor algorithm. Less clans in the mix= greater likelihood of a mismatch!

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We are so close to a level up so we have to go until then -- I think it will just be "baby wars" (second accounts) until this is fixed...BUT...then again, our last baby war (and first since mm update) was off too. Before the update, our baby wars were near perfect. Last baby war we had 2-3 9s we were against. Our top babies are awesome but they can't take a mid 9.

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Originally Posted by David1937

First time poster here, I've registered just to add to the feedback and pass on the thoughts of me and my clan since the matchmaking changes.

In our experiences of the changes, we have seen extremely unfair matchmaking. Our clan only do 15 v 15 wars and keep pretty much the same lineup apart from the odd change here and there. We only use th10s, th9s and th8s but every war since the changes has seen us matched up against clans with multiple th11s. The current war we are in now the opposition have 4 x th11s. Last war the opposition had 5x th11s and each time they of course have max troops such as max dragons, bowlers, hounds, loons.

At this moment, wars are becoming unplayable for us due to the imbalance in the matchmaking as it's pretty tough to even come close to being able to keeping up with these clans as they are easily 3 starring our max th10s with max dragons whilst we are struggling to get stars on th11s.

We are not an engineered clan but do have bases that are midway between town halls but currently upgrading and also have bases that are max but it seems the matchmaking is mistaking that as us being engineered which is not the case but even so, it still shouldn'tbe pairing us up with clans with multiple th11s which is clearly unfair.


If if anyone would like to jump into our clan and take a look you'd be more than welcome.

thanks for reading ��

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You're not alone David, I believe you. This is a fairly common complaint at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Skrags

You're not alone David, I believe you. This is a fairly common complaint at the moment.

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It's good to read that it is a common problem as we were really struggling to understand what we were doing wrong. Hopefully supercell can find a solution or even go back to the old matchmaking system as despite the odd mismatch here and there, the matchmaking was fine 80% of the time. At the moment it's imbalanced 80% of the time.

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Originally Posted by PhilISuppose

Unless your clan is very strange it would have been a VERY different clan 5 months ago, both in the members and in the levels of those members. Different TH spread.

Clans win 50% of their wars on average
You're winning slightly less than 50% of your wars

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I appreciate the efforts to challenge that we are seeing something that isn't really there--really I do. As a scientist, I am very careful not to prematurely decide there is a pattern where there is insufficient data.

But that's not what is going on here. We were facing so many unfair matches so often, that it forced our clan to walk away from something we have loved most for 27 months of nonstop warring.

And by unfair, I mean matches where no amount of skill, strategy, and brilliance would allow us to win in the vast majority of our matches.

We loved going to war, which is why I took the trouble to come here to report how broken it is and why we are walking away from it.

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Originally Posted by TestRun

What about making each town hall automatically move you higher than any other lower town hall, in regards to weight.

This gives you the chance to engineer throughout the town hall level, but every Town Hall 10, would be higher and have more weight than any Town Hall 9.

Thoughts?

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Agreed. Big weight should have been added to TH's years ago. Defies logic why it hasn't happened.

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Originally Posted by Mav3rick235

Agreed. Big weight should have been added to TH's years ago. Defies logic why it hasn't happened.

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I think Supercell wants to give rushers a chance to participate. (rushers being high TH but low offense and defense, i.e. non-engineers)

Also, giving TH a ton of weight kills engineering, which Supercell also doesn't want to do. The new MMA theoretically was supposed to match engineered clans against engineered clans and non-engineered against non-engineered (and it's failing spectacularly), thereby allowing all players to follow the upgrade path they want as well as give them the war matchups they want.

ALSO, it also kills any base that is new to a TH, imagine a brand new non-engineered TH9 that still has TH8 troops and TH8 defenses. Your idea will immediately make them extremely heavy and a detriment to any war lineup. No new TH will ever be able to participate in a war. This is the biggest flaw in your idea, and NOBODY wants this. No logic being defied here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slayer339

The above war was very close and I believe came down to a couple forgotten attacks. The next war was a little uneven in our favor:

Them:
1/4/8/11/0/1
Us:
0/4/14/5/1/1

This would have been closer if they got there attacks in, or if they had coordinated as a clan.

Edit: I do not know how much of the match was based on recent performance as we had several losses in a row due to uneven matches

---

So much for the streak of even wars...changed our line up due to available members, we included 1 rushed TH8 [LOW TH6 offense(plus lvl 1 dragons) with TH6 defenses] as filler (my bad I guess, won't do that again)

US:
0/7/13/3/1/1
THEM:
1/10/7/4/2/1

---

But looking at their member profiles I would say the offense is closer to
0/8/10/3/6/1 (with one of the offensive 10s with a GW level 8).

This war will probably be decided by how that single TH11 performs.

Our war log has been decimated by this matchmaking "improvment". Previously we were stringing 10-15 win streaks together without much issue, but since this update we have as many losses as we had in the previous 6 months. Before we were seeing mostly solid matchups for both sides. Now we are getting hammered with max th11s at the top and extra th10s.

Our current war for example. We have 3 TH11s. 1 is getting close to max, mine was a max 10 and is now a brand new th11. I have a lvl 1 eagle, and all other th11 defenses dropped, but they are still baby defenses. 2 troops upgraded so far and lvl 5 warden. Our thrid 11 is a rushed 11 that only has drags upgraded and has infernos but no eagle, and defenses are th8 and 9 lvl. No warden. next we have 5 th9s and rest 8s.

Our opponent this war has 2 near max th11s and 3 th10s with infernos. 4 th9s and rest th7s.

What it looks like to me is we are getting hammered in the matchmaking because I am a brand new 11 and our other 11 is rushed. Off and on we have a couple of 10s that will be in war, but that seems to make things even worse. Every war now we are getting badly outmatched up top.

War is literally the only thing I play for anymore, and that is quickly becoming not worth our time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnnyPC

I think Supercell wants to give rushers a chance to participate. (rushers being high TH but low offense and defense, i.e. non-engineers)

Also, giving TH a ton of weight kills engineering, which Supercell also doesn't want to do. The new MMA theoretically was supposed to match engineered clans against engineered clans and non-engineered against non-engineered (and it's failing spectacularly), thereby allowing all players to follow the upgrade path they want as well as give them the war matchups they want.

ALSO, it also kills any base that is new to a TH, imagine a brand new non-engineered TH9 that still has TH8 troops and TH8 defenses. Your idea will immediately make them extremely heavy and a detriment to any war lineup. No new TH will ever be able to participate in a war. This is the biggest flaw in your idea, and NOBODY wants this. No logic being defied here.

---

The solution to your suggestion (regarding rushers and new THs) is to actually NOT weight the TH, but instead the items that are key to that TH. Such as camp space, spell slots, lab level etc.

That would not kill engineered bases either, if done right it would just eliminate their advantage by giving them a weight them based on the potential they have for war.

In additional the difference in weight between THs would need to be significantly larger than it currently is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WiseGuyClasher

What it looks like to me is we are getting hammered in the matchmaking because I am a brand new 11 and our other 11 is rushed. Off and on we have a couple of 10s that will be in war, but that seems to make things even worse. Every war now we are getting badly outmatched up top.

---

I'm with you on this. I'm wondering if an unintended consequence of whatever changes they made is that new and/or rushed TH levels are considered "engineered" by whatever SC defines that as and subsequently draws other "engineered" clans. We would fall into this same category as we have 1 guy that is literally always in war and is a rushed TH11 (all TH11 defenses on the ground and upgrading, but a ton of TH10 defenses still and some TH10 troop levels) and we have another guy that just finished building his IT's at TH10.

Has anyone tried putting in a lineup of ONLY maxed TH levels to see what the draw is?

The worst thing I have seen with the matchmaking changes is war matches seem to take forever to find. We haven't had a search run less than two hours and we seem to be getting matches that are impossible to win. Our wars are ending in draws or loses since the update with a couple wins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WiseGuyClasher

Our current war for example. We have 3 TH11s. 1 is getting close to max, mine was a max 10 and is now a brand new th11. I have a lvl 1 eagle, and all other th11 defenses dropped, but they are still baby defenses. 2 troops upgraded so far and lvl 5 warden. Our thrid 11 is a rushed 11 that only has drags upgraded and has infernos but no eagle, and defenses are th8 and 9 lvl. No warden. next we have 5 th9s and rest 8s.

---

I don't have any accounts yet at TH11, but it sounds like you have been there for a few weeks if you have a lvl 5 GW already. What levels are your baby defenses?

To me it sounds like you have 3 bases with the attack potential of a TH11 (better than TH10).
Unfortunately with 3 TH11s and no TH10s it sounds like you might have a hard time getting a balanced match.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tominator2

The worst thing I have seen with the matchmaking changes is war matches seem to take forever to find. We haven't had a search run less than two hours and we seem to be getting matches that are impossible to win. Our wars are ending in draws or loses since the update with a couple wins.

---

That could also have to do with day and time of searches along with the number of bases in war. Our search times have been 10 mins or less.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xc3ss1v30n3

I'm with you on this. I'm wondering if an unintended consequence of whatever changes they made is that new and/or rushed TH levels are considered "engineered" by whatever SC defines that as and subsequently draws other "engineered" clans. We would fall into this same category as we have 1 guy that is literally always in war and is a rushed TH11 (all TH11 defenses on the ground and upgrading, but a ton of TH10 defenses still and some TH10 troop levels) and we have another guy that just finished building his IT's at TH10.

Has anyone tried putting in a lineup of ONLY maxed TH levels to see what the draw is?

---

If I recall correctly 2222 has made references to a few strickly maxer clans that have reported issues too.

We run back to back wars so we start the next as soon as one finishes. Been trying wars of different sizes from 20 to 40 and also different combinations of bases.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xc3ss1v30n3

I'm with you on this. I'm wondering if an unintended consequence of whatever changes they made is that new and/or rushed TH levels are considered "engineered" by whatever SC defines that as and subsequently draws other "engineered" clans. We would fall into this same category as we have 1 guy that is literally always in war and is a rushed TH11 (all TH11 defenses on the ground and upgrading, but a ton of TH10 defenses still and some TH10 troop levels) and we have another guy that just finished building his IT's at TH10.

Has anyone tried putting in a lineup of ONLY maxed TH levels to see what the draw is?

---

You can search for cnaf's post early in the thread: 6 max TH11, 12 max TH10, 12 max Th9 match to 12/6/12. There's also a thread about maxer clan matches in the war section. Some are reporting more tendency to match other maxed clans (but only really seeming to apply to VERY maxed clans) - but also wild mismatches at times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slayer339

I don't have any accounts yet at TH11, but it sounds like you have been there for a few weeks if you have a lvl 5 GW already. What levels are your baby defenses?

To me it sounds like you have 3 bases with the attack potential of a TH11 (better than TH10).
Unfortunately with 3 TH11s and no TH10s it sounds like you might have a hard time getting a balanced match.

---

My "baby" defenses are canon / archer tower at around th8 level. wiz tower is lvl 4, Xbow is still lvl 1. I rushed my warden and had it lvl 5 in the first week. My 2nd th11 troop just finished a few days ago so maybe like 3-4 weeks worth of th11? I agree in theory with your statement about attack potential, but I still can't hang with a max 11 with 2 upgraded troops, and either way if I'm attacking th11 defenses and he's attacking my mostly th10 defenses that's not going my way 9/10 times. Also I tried to .5 for a few wars after going to 11 and that seemed to make it much worse as well.

It seems to me SC didn't address engineering in any way. They just made .5 and rushed / new TH look like engineers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OnyxDS

You can search for cnaf's post early in the thread: 6 max TH11, 12 max TH10, 12 max Th9 match to 12/6/12. There's also a thread about maxer clan matches in the war section. Some are reporting more tendency to match other maxed clans (but only really seeming to apply to VERY maxed clans) - but also wild mismatches at times.

---

Well, poop.

completely max th9/10s are being punished by matching higher ths but that kind of makes sense because they do have the option to just go to a higher th. seems like supercell is trying to force players up rather than letting perma max 9s/10s sit there because they like it.

other then that matchmaker is still doing a good job for my clan.we are balanced with no .5s or engineered bases and 10W-1L since the changes with a 9 streak soon to be 10

LOL -- Each search gets worse and worse

I just took our "babies" into war
9 - th8
5 - th7
1 - th6

we got

2 - th10
2 - th9s
6 - th8s
5 - th7s

Jet lost our war which I mentioned earlier in this thread which was heavily imbalanced.

our team

5 x th10
6 x th9
4 x th8


opposition team

4 x th11 (2 bases had th11 defences minus eagle and 2 had th10 defences but all 4 had max troops)
3 x th10
5 x th9
3 x th8


lost 42 - 41 so tried our best but just can't legislate for being matched up against that. Dunno whether to continue trying for fair wars or give it a break until something changes from supercell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David1937

Jet lost our war which I mentioned earlier in this thread which was heavily imbalanced.

.

---

What level clan are you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David1937

Jet lost our war which I mentioned earlier in this thread which was heavily imbalanced.
.

---

Maybe time to think about kicking Jet out

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PrincessKeys

What level clan are you?

---

Level 9 buddy. Not far from 10 now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David1937

Jet lost our war which I mentioned earlier in this thread which was heavily imbalanced.

our team

5 x th10
6 x th9
4 x th8


opposition team

4 x th11 (2 bases had th11 defences minus eagle and 2 had th10 defences but all 4 had max troops)
3 x th10
5 x th9
3 x th8


lost 42 - 41 so tried our best but just can't legislate for being matched up against that. Dunno whether to continue trying for fair wars or give it a break until something changes from supercell.

---

Ok, so some folks are going to read that score and say, See?! Proof that the MM is working.

But what if each team took the other teams attacks? If you had max TH11 troops hitting your own baby villages and the other guys had your troops to hit their villages, I venture to guess the score would have been more like 44-37 conservatively.

Somehow the MM has evolved to reward unskilled and lazy clans and punish hardworking skilled clans. Is that the kind of handicapping we want the MM to do?

The problem is that in recent weeks that MM handicapping has spun out of control taking the hardworking skilled clans totally out of the game. Maybe it wasn't intentional, but that's what has happened in effect. It has turned something that was only mildly unfair into something that is infuriatingly unfair--a disadvantage you could manage to a disadvantage that is not possible to overcome.

That was our experience too till we stopped going to war.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David1937

Level 9 buddy. Not far from 10 now.

---

Interesting. That is where we are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PlagueOfFrogs

Ok, so some folks are going to read that score and say, See?! Proof that the MM is working.

But what if each team took the other teams attacks? If you had max TH11 troops hitting your own baby villages and the other guys had your troops to hit their villages, I venture to guess the score would have been more like 44-37 conservatively.

Somehow the MM has evolved to reward unskilled and lazy clans and punish hardworking skilled clans. Is that the kind of handicapping we want the MM to do?

The problem is that in recent weeks that MM handicapping has spun out of control taking the hardworking skilled clans totally out of the game. Maybe it wasn't intentional, but that's what has happened in effect. It has turned something that was only mildly unfair into something that is infuriatingly unfair--a disadvantage you could manage to a disadvantage that is not possible to overcome.

That was our experience too till we stopped going to war.

---

good post and an interesting point of view. I can't imagine supercell wanting to balance skill levels of players and clans and think the current matchmaking is doing this unintentionally as you say. We are a decent clan with decent attackers but the only reason we lost that war was because of the max troops. We saw the same attack over and over, max dragons and eq and lightening spells. Without those troops which they unfairly had we would have won that war comfortably by 5 or 6 stars.

the complex nature of the matchmaking system means that there will never be a perfect system to cater for everybody but I do feel there's a lot of improvement to be had before anyone can be happy with it. I certainly do not think th11s should be matched with th10s and likewise th10s against th9s and so on.

You having problems being matched against th11s too? We have none in war and getting it every war.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PrincessKeys

Interesting. That is where we are.

---

I feel as though they added a lot of weight to BK and AQ, so much that if your clan's th10s have heroes over 30 then MM can match them up against th11 with royals in their 20s but with warden(and th11 troops)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timeToLeave1

I feel as though they added a lot of weight to BK and AQ, so much that if your clan's th10s have heroes over 30 then MM can match them up against th11 with royals in their 20s but with warden(and th11 troops)

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Exactly this. And I'd sort of vaguely noticed it recently. War search just gave us (on our side) two max th11 defence, mid heroes, rest a spread of th10 to 8.

This in a 15 version 15 war. They have 9 th11, none defenceless. Lowest is 14 opposite a th8 with maxed drags. But mostly they all have mid heroes max troops and about 4 of the top th11 have lvl 5 infernos.

When I say mid heroes I mean 10-15 for the th11, with a decent GW at the top th11 bases

I think SC is looking at the hero levels way too much. But ours are pretty much average for a friends and family clan. Our opponents seem to be depressing bk, aq levels, maxing troops

Hey Clash Team,

Just wanted to give you an update/feedback on the new matchmaking algorithm. Our clan wars 2-3 times a week and since it launched it has been ok for the most part. That is until our most recent war. I searched on 9/17 around 3PM Pacific Coast time. 15v15 matchup; 15 mins from search to match. The results are as follows: Our clan(#990CR9LR): 4 TH10s: 2 mid level with Level 20 heroes, 1 rushed TH10 with only level 2 xbows and Inferno towers, 1 TH10 that is engineered (hey, im being honest - this was done because we got tired of all the engineered clans we matched with) that is set to TH8 defenses only. 7 TH9s: 2 Maxed TH9s,1 super rushed, 2 Mid to high level Th9s, the rest mid range. 2 x TH7s, low level, 2 x Th5s, low level. The clan we matched with(#PV0V82VC): 3 x TH11s : all 3 had lower level heroes(Level 15), but all "3" heroes; 1 Total Eagle artillery, but 4 x bows for each TH11 (level 4 Xbows). 1 did not have Inferno towers, but other 2 had lvl 3 infernos; 5 x TH10s: no inferno towers, but all level 4 xbows: rushed but also engineered for offense. 1 TH9, rushed - TH8 defenses, 1 x TH8 mid level ; 1 x TH7 maxed, 1 TH5, 2TH4s. We forfeited the match upon matching. How is it possible we matched up with 3 TH11s and 5 TH10s. I thought this new algorithm was supposed to take offense into account along with defense. We got 45 Starred, naturally. This is very very disappointing. There should be an addition to war matching that allows clans to either decline the matchup or to forfeit/surrender the war altogether. Instead, we had to wait 47 hours for the next opportunity to search for a better pairing. Losing 2 days of clan wars because of a horrible unbalanced matching is disheartening. Just wanted to provide my feedback. I know its a work in progress so please keep working on it.

Cheers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timeToLeave1

I feel as though they added a lot of weight to BK and AQ, so much that if your clan's th10s have heroes over 30 then MM can match them up against th11 with royals in their 20s but with warden(and th11 troops)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Imjustaboutokinwar

Exactly this. And I'd sort of vaguely noticed it recently. War search just gave us (on our side) two max th11 defence, mid heroes, rest a spread of th10 to 8.

This in a 15 version 15 war. They have 9 th11, none defenceless. Lowest is 14 opposite a th8 with maxed drags. But mostly they all have mid heroes max troops and about 4 of the top th11 have lvl 5 infernos.

When I say mid heroes I mean 10-15 for the th11, with a decent GW at the top th11 bases

I think SC is looking at the hero levels way too much. But ours are pretty much average for a friends and family clan. Our opponents seem to be depressing bk, aq levels, maxing troops

---

I think that is equally possible to explain by having changed no weights so far, just changing the degree to which offence factors in making the match. To give offence more emphasis (as we know they have) is to give defence less - so eagle weight counts less. Where that happens the gap between a big hero big 10 and a mid hero 11 with eagle and upgraded infernos narrows. If that's what happened then a good way to reinstate a differentiation between 10 and 11 would be to leave king, queen and eagle weights as they are, and add rather more weight to the warden. The fine tuning SC said was now possible may well be a way to more easily tweak weights on individual items, as a second measure after changing the broad way offence and defence are factored.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tomville

I think that is equally possible to explain by having changed no weights so far, just changing the degree to which offence factors in making the match. To give offence more emphasis (as we know they have) is to give defence less - so eagle weight counts less. Where that happens the gap between a big hero big 10 and a mid hero 11 with eagle and upgraded infernos narrows. If that's what happened then a good way to reinstate a differentiation between 10 and 11 would be to leave king, queen and eagle weights as they are, and add rather more weight to the warden. The fine tuning SC said was now possible may well be a way to more easily tweak weights on individual items, as a second measure after changing the broad way offence and defence are factored.

---

Everyone knows they need to add more weight to the warden. EXCEPT Supercell

Oh wait.... Maybe i spoke to early. We just searched again and got an EVEN WORSE matchup. Completely engineered clan. TH11s, LavaLooners with Max Lava Hounds, Max Loons, 3 royals with at least Lvl 10 each. Here is our new matchup. 15 v 15

My Clan: (#990CR9LR) Wikd Down Kings
5 x TH10s
- 1 is rushed, 1 is a new TH10, 1 is honestly engineered with Royals at Level 10 only though, TH8 defenses, but max Air Def and teslas; 2 are solid TH10s, Lvl 20 Royals,
8 x TH9s
- 1 is super rushed (Hes only 7 years old); 2 are maxed TH9s with lvl 20+ Royals; other 5 are solid TH9s
2 x TH7s :
- early to mid TH7s

Matched clan: (#L8JQUUV)
4 x TH11s
- These occupy the 10,11,13,15 position in the
# 15 - 1 cannon (only defense) level 11 double cannon; 3 Royals, King level 8, Queen Lvl 9; Grand Warden level5; Max Dragons, Max Loons, level 1 Lava Hound; Max Lightning and Rage; All other troops and spells - Level 1
#13 - Lvl 10 Queen, Level 9 King, Level 5 GW 2 level 1 air Defenses, 1 level 4 air def, 1 mortor, 1 level 10 double cannon - ONLY DEFENSES; Offensive troops: Max Dragons, Loons, lvl 1 Lava hound; max lightning, rage; All other spells and most troops Level 1 only
#11: Offense: Max Loons, Max Lava Hound, Max Dragon; max lightning and rage. All other troops and spells level 1; Royals: K: 7, Q:6, GW: 4
Defense:3 lvl 7 air def; 3 lvl 12 cannon, 1 Lvl 9 Wiz Tower, 1 x lvl 14 archer tower, 2 x lvl 13 Archer towers, 2 lvl 7 Mortars
#10 : Offense: Max Loons, Max Dragon, Max LV Hound, Max Rage, Lighning. Most other troops level 2: Royals: K =9, Q = 15, GW =10
Defense: 3 lvl 12 cannons, 4 lvl 12 Archer towers, 2 Lvl 9 Wiz towers, 1 lvl 8 Mortar.

Rest of matchup: 5 TH10s , 5 TH9s

Do i even need to go into this more. This clan is by definition an Engineered clan. Our clan, other than the 1 engineered base is a legit building family clan, our flaw is more on rushing, but not being heavy on offense and low on defense or rather lacking in defense all together.

We have all decided to forfeit this war as well, When the enemy clans #13,15 can take out your 1 and 2 and your 1 and 2 cant take out their 1 and 2, the war is over before it even started.

THIS MATCH-UP IS RUBBISH We are now losing an entire week of war. If this keeps up, not sure how much longer im going to play COC. Maybe ill just abandon my base and only play BH town. Sure as hell aint going to give any money to Super Cell if this keeps up. Please fix this!!! This is so much worse than it ever was......

Maybe the solution to these match up problems could be solved this way. Take defense out of the matchmaking and use offensive wait only. If there is a th11 with Max war troops give them a th11 weight. If there defenses are low it should not matter because they are capable of getting 3 stars on a Max th10 but would actually have to have a good attack with good strategy on a higher level th11. I think this also would help rushers in war weight. I don't know how the algorithm works but by using defenses for weight and to expect fair matches with how this game is played now does not seem to work. Speaking of defense though it still should be used for your ranking in war. That's just my opinion though and I hope this gets fixed soon.

makes more sense to weigh offense. An engineered base can give up 3 stars but gain 6 stars. Not an equal trade off is it? I have repeatedly made the suggestion that they should add a "Forfeit" "Decline" or "Surrender" option for clans to cancel the matches if they dont agree to the match. This prevents a 47 hour delay in moving on with things, which is horrible. We are now forfeiting 2 wars in a row, thats 94 hours or straight not being involved in WAR on purpose because of unfair matchups. Hell, i even set my bases to free gimmes to try to take any fun out of the attach at all. .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wdk935gsx

makes more sense to weigh offense. An engineered base can give up 3 stars but gain 6 stars. Not an equal trade off is it? I have repeatedly made the suggestion that they should add a "Forfeit" "Decline" or "Surrender" option for clans to cancel the matches if they dont agree to the match. This prevents a 47 hour delay in moving on with things, which is horrible. We are now forfeiting 2 wars in a row, thats 94 hours or straight not being involved in WAR on purpose because of unfair matchups. Hell, i even set my bases to free gimmes to try to take any fun out of the attach at all. .

---

I've been just trying different war attacks in wars with no chance to win. I do like your surrender option I would have used it the last 8 wars

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bigkeller0922

I've been just trying different war attacks in wars with no chance to win. I do like your surrender option I would have used it the last 8 wars

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I really think that a surrender option would be highly valuable to curb engineered clans. Instead of changing the war making algorithm (which doesnt seem to be helping, actually making things worse) It would change wars so that non-engineered clans didnt have to suffer when being matched up against engineered clans. I say a forfeit or surrender option would be good because it would still give the clan a WIN, but allow the forfeiting clan to be able to search again and hopefully get matched up with a good match and enjoy wars instead of sitting for 47 hours waiting to search again. I do think there should be a time limit though, just to make it fair. Say, 30 mins from the time the match is made the leader/coleader of a clan can forfeit or surrender to the opposing clan. If after 30 mins this has not been done, then you just have to deal with the bad matchup. I really think this would prevent people from engineering more. Think about it, these engineered clans have such lopsided records because they easily beat the clans they get matched with. Well, if everyone the matched with passed on Wars with them, then it would really take the fun and deviousness out of engineering. Or, they match up with another engineered clan and they can see who kicks the hell out of each others weak bases the best. Its a WIN, WIN in my opinion. I really cannot see a single negative issue with this option.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wdk935gsx

makes more sense to weigh offense. An engineered base can give up 3 stars but gain 6 stars. Not an equal trade off is it? I have repeatedly made the suggestion that they should add a "Forfeit" "Decline" or "Surrender" option for clans to cancel the matches if they dont agree to the match. This prevents a 47 hour delay in moving on with things, which is horrible. We are now forfeiting 2 wars in a row, thats 94 hours or straight not being involved in WAR on purpose because of unfair matchups. Hell, i even set my bases to free gimmes to try to take any fun out of the attach at all. .

---

More importantly than just the 3 vs 6 stars is an engineered base can generally take those stars from the top of the map which is much more valuable than taking 6 stars from the middle or bottom.

I don't hate the idea of a surrender option, but I'm concerned what happens when you spend hours searching for a matchup and the other clan immediately surrenders, starting that search over again. Or worse, decides to stall you 22 hours and then surrenders just to troll you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoexThePale

We've got 3 early Th 10s, 5 Th 9s and 2 Th 8s, only a couple of the 9s are slightly rushed and none are engineered. I did this search and chose those bases to give the least possible chance of a bad matchup, as all are reasonably balanced bases. The result? They have 5 Th 9s, 4 Th 11s and a Th 3! Three of the 11s have wardens, all have 4 max ad, and 3 have max troops.

---

Update: they steamrolled us. Three of the 11s cleaned our top 6 bases (1 didn't bother attacking at all) and the top bases dropped to clean the bottom. We lost 21-30. How exactly is this a fair matchup, with wardens, level 8 ad, max/extra traps and Tesla vs Th 8/9 troops? And don't give me that "the defences are lower level, so it's fair" ♥♥, when they have select defences/traps maxed, it's not fair. That's like a grown man fighting a 6 year old, but it's "fair" because the kid can use all his limbs while the adult is on his knees with one arm tied, aka 'defenceless'.

This is 100% against the spirit of the game and I think the community has clearly communicated that. These ARE NOT SKILL MATCHUPS.

People who look for unsportsmanlike advantages deserve disappointment. Yet the nobler, and larger portion of the community is still being dealt injustice. Is it fair to expect the average player to build .5 bases?

Lol, previous war ends, new search.

We have 1 TH11 this time, 6 th9s, rest th8s

They get 2 TH11s, 1 Th10, 4, Th9s, rest th8/7

Only SC could take a highly flawed matchmaking system and make it exponentially worse with their "fix". This is what happens when you don't have the stones to deal with engineering like you should. You try to tip toe around the issue and make things worse than they've ever been.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WiseGuyClasher

Lol, previous war ends, new search.

We have 1 TH11 this time, 6 th9s, rest th8s

They get 2 TH11s, 1 Th10, 4, Th9s, rest th8/7

Only SC could take a highly flawed matchmaking system and make it exponentially worse with their "fix". This is what happens when you don't have the stones to deal with engineering like you should. You try to tip toe around the issue and make things worse than they've ever been.

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you have a very very unique and unusual roster which is probably why the match-maker is having trouble giving you a good match.

this has nothing to do with whether your bases are engineered or not but simply it would be super rare to find a clan with just ONE th11, no th10s and a bunch of 9/8s.

i would try to make it more balanced if possible and you will probably have better results.

my clan is having a wonderful time on new matchmaking and we've only run into an engineered clan twice out of 12 searches, one of which was our fault for letting search go 58 minutes.

we run a pretty even line-up across the board from th11 to th7 with 3 th11s, 6 th10s, 9 th9s, 6 th8s, 1 th7

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AFrostyBlaze

you have a very very unique and unusual roster which is probably why the match-maker is having trouble giving you a good match.

this has nothing to do with whether your bases are engineered or not but simply it would be super rare to find a clan with just ONE th11, no th10s and a bunch of 9/8s.

i would try to make it more balanced if possible and you will probably have better results.

my clan is having a wonderful time on new matchmaking and we've only run into an engineered clan twice out of 12 searches, one of which was our fault for letting search go 58 minutes.

we run a pretty even line-up across the board from th11 to th7 with 3 th11s, 6 th10s, 9 th9s, 6 th8s, 1 th7

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Well we are very thin at th10, if we had more we would use them. Most wars we have multiple th11s, but everyone is upgrading at once. Only choice we have and that shouldn't mean we get our 1 Th11 matched with 2 11s and a 10.

Like I said earlier, this wasn't an issue before the MM "fix". We were seeing very reasonable matches almost every war.

Matchmaking is working excellent one time only to fail miserably the next time. In last war we meet a clan with a huge amount of engineered bases (no inferno / grand warden but max heroes and offenses). It was a 25 vs 25 war.

We:
12 TH11 (top 4 with max heroes, the rest with heroes between 30-38)
6 TH10 (heroes ranging from 18 - 40, most in the 30 area)
6 TH9 (heroes ranging from 10 - 22)
1 TH8

Opponents
20 TH11 (7 max heroes, 6 +40 heroes, 3 30-40 heroes, rest lower heroes)
2 TH10
1 TH9
2 TH8

In all the mismatched wars after the latest update I see one thing in common and that is the number of TH11s. Think there need to be a max deviation on town hall implemented on top of current matchmaking system.

Hope this make sense.

Why not just increase the stars on offer for higher TH's?

TH11 = 6 stars available
TH10 = 5 stars
TH9 = 4
TH8 = 3

And so on. This way engineered bases have their superior firepower countered by the potential for losing more stars on defence.

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Originally Posted by Jeroboam

Why not just increase the stars on offer for higher TH's?

TH11 = 6 stars available
TH10 = 5 stars
TH9 = 4
TH8 = 3

And so on. This way engineered bases have their superior firepower countered by the potential for losing more stars on defence.

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Good suggestion. By the way - I was only posting as the reply from support was the usual "sometimes you have the advance and sometime the opponent". In my stupidity I was hoping support would like examples where matchmaking fail to deliver this to the devs to investigate. Was not attemting to suggest a solution to the problem :)

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Originally Posted by Jeroboam

Why not just increase the stars on offer for higher TH's?

TH11 = 6 stars available
TH10 = 5 stars
TH9 = 4
TH8 = 3

And so on. This way engineered bases have their superior firepower countered by the potential for losing more stars on defence.

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i share your desire for an end to the current engineering taking advantage of the mm system. But sc will never implement your suggestion, or the oft mentioned minimum war weight per th level, for the simple reason engineers spend money on gems. SC need them.

SC should however tone it down a lot. I guess the last upgrade was meant to do that. But the experience of my two clans is that engineers now rule the earth, more than they ever did.

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Originally Posted by Earth2fire

This is 100% against the spirit of the game and I think the community has clearly communicated that. These ARE NOT SKILL MATCHUPS.

People who look for unsportsmanlike advantages deserve disappointment. Yet the nobler, and larger portion of the community is still being dealt injustice. Is it fair to expect the average player to build .5 bases?

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Well said! Well said!

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Originally Posted by Wdk935gsx

I really think that a surrender option would be highly valuable to curb engineered clans. Instead of changing the war making algorithm (which doesnt seem to be helping, actually making things worse) It would change wars so that non-engineered clans didnt have to suffer when being matched up against engineered clans. I say a forfeit or surrender option would be good because it would still give the clan a WIN, but allow the forfeiting clan to be able to search again and hopefully get matched up with a good match and enjoy wars instead of sitting for 47 hours waiting to search again.

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I like the idea of a forfeit button.

I do NOT like the idea of the engineer winning or the skill seeking clan losing. Either it doesn't go in the record or it goes as a black line or something like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David1937

You having problems being matched against th11s too? We have none in war and getting it every war.

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Yes. When I take the main group into war, it is not unusual to see a couple 11s and around 3 10s. Due to work schedules, I'm only taking 1 10 into war.

I just took our low guys into war (we call it a baby war) -- th7 and 8 with 1th6 to make it 15 and they got 9s and 10s!! Even a good th8 just doesn't have the troops to deal with all the xbows and queens -- how in the world did they get matched with all those xbows and queens? Obviously our top th is a maxed 8. Theirs is a healthy 9 with lvl 2 xbows, queen with ability, air/7, cannon/11...Odd though that our th8 has nearly double the war stars than this guy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wdk935gsx

I have repeatedly made the suggestion that they should add a "Forfeit" "Decline" or "Surrender" option for clans to cancel the matches if they dont agree to the match. This prevents a 47 hour delay in moving on with things, which is horrible.

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This has been discussed many times. Its a really bad idea. For starters, it's highly exploitable. Secondly, lets think about it for a sec.

You push the war search button, match, don't feel good about the opposing clan- and you forfeit. Start the process over...match, nah it looks a bit tough...forfeit. Start the process over, match, hey, this one is a winner! Opposing clan forfeits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wdk935gsx

I really think that a surrender option would be highly valuable to curb engineered clans. Instead of changing the war making algorithm (which doesnt seem to be helping, actually making things worse) It would change wars so that non-engineered clans didnt have to suffer when being matched up against engineered clans. I say a forfeit or surrender option would be good because it would still give the clan a WIN, but allow the forfeiting clan to be able to search again and hopefully get matched up with a good match and enjoy wars instead of sitting for 47 hours waiting to search again. I do think there should be a time limit though, just to make it fair. Say, 30 mins from the time the match is made the leader/coleader of a clan can forfeit or surrender to the opposing clan. If after 30 mins this has not been done, then you just have to deal with the bad matchup. I really think this would prevent people from engineering more. Think about it, these engineered clans have such lopsided records because they easily beat the clans they get matched with. Well, if everyone the matched with passed on Wars with them, then it would really take the fun and deviousness out of engineering. Or, they match up with another engineered clan and they can see who kicks the hell out of each others weak bases the best. Its a WIN, WIN in my opinion. I really cannot see a single negative issue with this option.

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i am not keen on the whole surrender button idea unless you were stopped from starting another war search until the original war time was due to expire otherwise its open to huge abuse in terms of levelling the clan up quickly by doing multiple wars each day which also gets multiple war loots the fwa clans would have a field day and no offence intended just saying

Ain't we all destroying Engineered clans?
They have a major disadvantage now!
Maybe this forum needs to set up a helpline, show u guys how to balance war correctly.

total weight is not the solution to the problem. it will become more worse than ever because clans with engineered bases will go to the extreme. for example, in a 20v20, they will put 10 th 11 max offense max defense and 10 th 11 with just 1 lvl 1 cannon with max offense.

someone started engineered bases because of the flaw in the th uprading. u can upgrade th freely to the max.

others followed, then the playing field became fair again. clans who did not adapt to the current trend would be left behind.

now you think total weight will be the answer. i do not think so. surely offense weight is the answer. or limitation in th uprade. for example you can only upgrade your th once u have fully upgraded your troops on the current th level.

but the offense weight is the solution for now as there were a lot of EBs already created.

https://forum-content.supercell.com/...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bigtone2001 https://forum-content.supercell.com/...post-right.png
Result 56v63
No surprises, we lost this. Admittedly we were poor this war, but even if we had been on form, we still would've lost. We thought with all good attacks we would've got 61.

So after 10 from 12 wars on the new MM complete, we started the 13th search, and guess what, yet again out numbered on TH11s.

Us
1-9 TH11 with EA
10 TH11 no EA
11-15 TH10 with both inferno
16-18 TH10 no inferno (recent TH upgrade)
19-20 TH9

them
1-11 TH11 with EA
12 TH11 no EA
13 TH10
14 TH11 no EA or inferno, lv13 warden, Max troops
15 TH11, no EA or inferno, lv 11 warden, Max Healer, Miner, Valk, Bowler.
16 TH10, no inferno.
17 TH9
18 TH10
19 TH11, lv 5 warden. Nothing maxed
20 TH8

Their #12 is identical to our #10, so they have 2 TH11s with EA advantage at top. Hopefully we can handle these 2.
13 down should be easy to 3* for us. So it will come down to 20v28 TH11 attacks. (Not counting #19 as nothing maxed)

By no means an even war (10v15 TH11s), but it could be winnable for us.

C'mon SC hurry up and fix this.



Result : 50 (81.4) v 51 (85.55)

So they got 3* on #10 down, and 2* on TH11s with EA.
We got 3* on #13 down, plus 4 & 11, all others were 2*.

No surprises, the clan with most EAs and GWs won.

War #14...

Us
1-9 TH11 with EA
10 TH11 no EA, Max Troops and Heroes.
11-17 TH10 with both inferno
18-19 TH10 no inferno (recent TH upgrade)
20 TH9

Them
1-11 TH11 with EA
12 TH11 no EA, Max Troops and Heroes.
13 TH11 no EA, Some Max troops, K40, Q43, W12
14-15 TH10 with both inferno.
16 TH11 no EA, no infernos, Some Max troops, K35, Q41, W18
17 TH11 no EA, no infernos, Some Max troops, K22, Q34, W20
18-20 TH9

so yet again, we are down by 2 EAs, & 5 GWs, & 5 lots of Max troops.

Based on our experience, we have seen 2 from 14 being evenly matched.

When is this MM going to be fixed?

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Originally Posted by Bigtone2001

https://forum-content.supercell.com/...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bigtone2001 https://forum-content.supercell.com/...post-right.png
Result 56v63
No surprises, we lost this. Admittedly we were poor this war, but even if we had been on form, we still would've lost. We thought with all good attacks we would've got 61.

So after 10 from 12 wars on the new MM complete, we started the 13th search, and guess what, yet again out numbered on TH11s.

Us
1-9 TH11 with EA
10 TH11 no EA
11-15 TH10 with both inferno
16-18 TH10 no inferno (recent TH upgrade)
19-20 TH9

them
1-11 TH11 with EA
12 TH11 no EA
13 TH10
14 TH11 no EA or inferno, lv13 warden, Max troops
15 TH11, no EA or inferno, lv 11 warden, Max Healer, Miner, Valk, Bowler.
16 TH10, no inferno.
17 TH9
18 TH10
19 TH11, lv 5 warden. Nothing maxed
20 TH8

Their #12 is identical to our #10, so they have 2 TH11s with EA advantage at top. Hopefully we can handle these 2.
13 down should be easy to 3* for us. So it will come down to 20v28 TH11 attacks. (Not counting #19 as nothing maxed)

By no means an even war (10v15 TH11s), but it could be winnable for us.

C'mon SC hurry up and fix this.



Result : 50 (81.4) v 51 (85.55)

So they got 3* on #10 down, and 2* on TH11s with EA.
We got 3* on #13 down, plus 4 & 11, all others were 2*.

No surprises, the clan with most EAs and GWs won.

War #14...

Us
1-9 TH11 with EA
10 TH11 no EA, Max Troops and Heroes.
11-17 TH10 with both inferno
18-19 TH10 no inferno (recent TH upgrade)
20 TH9

Them
1-11 TH11 with EA
12 TH11 no EA, Max Troops and Heroes.
13 TH11 no EA, Some Max troops, K40, Q43, W12
14-15 TH10 with both inferno.
16 TH11 no EA, no infernos, Some Max troops, K35, Q41, W18
17 TH11 no EA, no infernos, Some Max troops, K22, Q34, W20
18-20 TH9

so yet again, we are down by 2 EAs, & 5 GWs, & 5 lots of Max troops.

Based on our experience, we have seen 2 from 14 being evenly matched.

When is this MM going to be fixed?

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Nobody is stopping you from creating your own. A lot of those 11s can't do much worthwhile anyway. The advantage is negligible.

We have had one decent match since SC improved the system. Our current match is more typical.
Us:
1) Max11
2-4) 10s with maxed D, near max troops, heros lagging
5-6) Basically 9.5s
7-12) 9s, top 4 near max
13-14) 8s
15) a seven

Them:
1) Max 11 with near max troops and 30ish heroes
2) Near Max 10
3) 11 with th10 D and th11 troops and heroes
4) Middling 10
5-9) 11s with th10 D but no ITs. Troops low except for one type of attack, which is max or near max.
10-14) 9s
15) Th 10 with th9 troops.

If they totally suck at the top with their attacks, we might have a chance. But this is not even close to balanced, and we are seeing it almost every single war. Guys in our clan are talking about taking "a break". Last time that happened, the majority never came back.

Yet another war that is badly matched on offence.

4 TH11 vs 15 TH11 in a 20vs20 war, this is outrageous.

It isn't so much about defenses, it is the 13 extra heros of high levels their high level troops.

<th level> <defense level> <king/queen/warden>
Us - Them
TH11 max 45/45/20 - TH11 max 45/45/20
TH11 max 45/45/20 - TH11 max 45/45/20
TH11 max 38/42/20 - TH11 max 45/45/20
TH10 max 36/35 - TH11 max 45/45/20
TH10 max 30/30 - TH11 max 43/45/20
TH10 max 30/30 - TH11 max no IF no EA 40/45/20
TH10 max 25/26 - TH11 max 3 XB no IF no EA 45/45/20
TH10 max 25/24 - TH11 mostly max no IF no EA 45/45/20
TH10 medium 20/20 - TH11 medium 3 max XB no IF no EA 45/45/20
TH10 medium 20/20 - TH11 medium 4 max XB no IF no EA 30/36/14
TH10 medium 21/20 - TH11 low no XB one IF lvl1 no EA 19/20/16
TH9 max 24/25 - TH11 max TH8 4 AD lvl7 one XB lvl1 13/19/11
TH9 max 21/23 - TH9 max TH8 4 AD lvl7 two XB lvl1 10/3
TH9 max 14/15 - TH9 max TH7 no XB 8/6
TH9 medium 17/17 - TH9 max TH7 no XB 6/4
TH9 max TH8 10/10 - TH11 low no XB no IF no EA 22/23/20
TH8 medium 6 - TH11 low no XB no IF no EA 24/30/13
TH8 medium 6 - TH11 none 32/35/20
TH10 none 8/2 - TH10 none 8/7
TH11 none 15/15 - TH7 max TH5 no hero


How to read it:
TH11 medium 4 max XB no IF no EA 30/36/14
TH11 with medium defenses (between max TH10 and TH11) 4 max X-Bows, no Infernal towers and no Eagle Artillery lvl 30 king, lvl 36 queen and lvl 14 grand warden.

They have 12 more heros and a lot of high level troops more than we have.
Their number 18 can probably make 3 stars on our number 5 and 6.

The defenses are probably matched okay - maybe a little unfair to us.
The offense are poorly matched - to significant advantage to our enemy.

We have a win streak of 2 they have 17

The war will end with a win streak of 0 and 18, there is no way we can change that.

How is this supposed to be fun, matchmaking is worse than ever.

I wish that Supercell would talk to us. People are getting more and more frustrated and that just leads to people quitting. Please SC - communicate with us before it’s too late.

The two major problems people are probably experiencing are either 1) their clan isn't as balanced as they think it is. Many complaints are from people who have a few .5s or "lower ths" at the bottom as filler. That will label you in the engineer camp and possible increase risk at bad match ups

Or 2) they have so many th11 that it's very hard for the system to make an even match. If people look at dorsans posts in the clan war subforum they will see that on his api checks there is an extremely low amount of clans warring with more than just s few 11s at the top. Since there is such a small number of clans in the pool with let's say, 6+ th11 the odds of a fair match are very slim at best.

The 2nd issue is very troublesome as it makes it hard to enjoy being a true th11 player and war at the same time.

The first issue is also unfortunate because many clans are unknowingly bringing bad matchups on themselves by playing the way that was once established to be beneficial

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Originally Posted by AFrostyBlaze

The two major problems people are probably experiencing are either 1) their clan isn't as balanced as they think it is. Many complaints are from people who have a few .5s or "lower ths" at the bottom as filler. That will label you in the engineer camp and possible increase risk at bad match ups

Or 2) they have so many th11 that it's very hard for the system to make an even match. If people look at dorsans posts in the clan war subforum they will see that on his api checks there is an extremely low amount of clans warring with more than just s few 11s at the top. Since there is such a small number of clans in the pool with let's say, 6+ th11 the odds of a fair match are very slim at best.

The 2nd issue is very troublesome as it makes it hard to enjoy being a true th11 player and war at the same time.

The first issue is also unfortunate because many clans are unknowingly bringing bad matchups on themselves by playing the way that was once established to be beneficial

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i never understood the appeal of maxing a base completely. it just seems like such an inefficient way to build up your base.