If those 8s and 9s were smart, they'd jump ship and find a clan that can teach them how to win instead of the one that forces them to max every wall segment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiscal
Printable View
If those 8s and 9s were smart, they'd jump ship and find a clan that can teach them how to win instead of the one that forces them to max every wall segment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiscal
Wow, what trolling! So, when you crush a TH9 with level 3 Bowlers you must get a great rush of adrenaline right? Everyone in your clan cheers, Yay War Dictator! You sure showed that TH9! Do you also beat up Kindergarteners for their lunch money in your spare time?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
I think the mistake we are making here is elevating 'engineering' to the level of a 'playstyle' It isn't, never has been.
It's simply a way of taking advantage of a loophole in the war matchmaking system.
Unfortunately it made SC some money so they are loathe to fix it. They should bite the bullet and clean up their game!
Some of dem KinderG's role with much dollar yo!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiscal
Hoping for some more tweaks to the system soon. We have been getting worse matches since the update. Minimum of quadrupled on all max attacks. Maybe I'm over simplifying things. But seems to me defense counts for to much and offense not nearly enough. Bases design don't matter if they can hit the same one 5-10 times with all max attacks
our 11s don't dip on 9s. our 9s are quite capable of 3 starring other 9s. our 11s are expected to hit the opposing 11s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiscal
what i don't agree with is the sentiment that my clan plays this way so SC must make the war cater to us so that we can win.
you want to win, figure out what works and do more of that instead of doing the same thing and expecting different results.
Listen, and understand! That New Algorithm is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pain. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop... ever, until your win streak is broken.
Yep, complain all you want about unfair matches. It won't make any difference. You want to win, then you have to figure out what the mm rewards and what it punishes.Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaTroll
Yeah ur right, i guess they are not for both sides. Its a hard fixQuote:
Originally Posted by 2222
Some of us want to play the game, not the MM. I would get little to no pleasure in beating the MM!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
Nobody is forcing you to play the mm. However, if you have a sub-optimal build, you aren't getting rewarded. This will be true in any matchmaker. Why do you expect to win when you have suboptimal builds?Quote:
Originally Posted by NightsWatchMB
Read the op,Darian has said that they have created an algorithm to address the engineering issue.I agree with xc3c1v30n3 that not everyone has the time and money to restart the game so that we can be enable ourselves to beat the engineered clans.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
If sc would have told us they can do nothing about it and it is one of the type of gameplays then we could have reevaluated our strategy according to the choices we have.I am not against engineered clans,I am against the algorithm that they are using which is supposed to match engineered clan with other engineered clans and normal ones with other normal ones,but is doing the exact opposite.The new algorithm is matching engineered with non engineered clans and thats my issue.You will agree that engineered clans have an unfair advantage on the normal clan,right?
Our th6 bases got th11 in their mirror.How can the th6 upgrading to .5 will help them win over their th11 mirror?They had an unfair advantage of having max cc and number of troops in it and also,their lower bases could 3 star our th10 bases but the th10s could not 3 star their th11 mirrors which had max infernos.Does this seem a fair fight?
The game has evolved in the past addressing many issues and right now engineering is an abnormality of the game which they are trying to address and thus evolving once again.Obviously those who have put their time and money in the engineered bases from beginning will defend that and those who have played the game normally will defend that.You can obviously say those clans complaining about engineering are whining but you also know that its unfair to other clans and it has been moto of sc from the beginning to provide fair play.Lets hope they rectify the errors in the current algorithm and bring balance to the matchmaking.
20v20, we have 5 TH11s, enemy has 15. 3 10s and two defenseless 9s. Been seeing a lot more of this nonsense since the "fix"
Your definition of an 'optimal' build is one that fools the MM into giving you a weaker opponent :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
I don't expect to win, I hope to be matched against someone where the outcome is decided by skill at playing the game, not by skill at playing the MM. It's really a different game altogether and I'm sure you are a master at it but it's not the game I (and many others) want to play.
Actually dropping and upgrading defence wouldn't be a problem in the MATCHMAKER wasn't sub-optimal.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
Not that it's ever going to change though. I firmly believe that SC has been, and will continue to promote sandbagging. There is simply no other rational explanation since I don't believe them to be incompetent.
2 games in one apparently. Those who wish to actually advance their base are allowed to trophy push.
Those who wish to war are severely punished for building premium defences. (Or anything beyond one stinking Cannon)
It's absurd. It's ridiculous. It's asinine and it's just the way that SC and it's favored sandbaggers like it.
i just don't get it. The solution is dead easy. Match ups should be based on offense. You have a TH11 army, you count as a TH11. Winning wars seems more about how many attacks you can get down a TH then the other guy. (i.e. a TH11 attacking TH10 defenses)
If you count the same based on offense it will force people to build up their defenses. For those that say someone would just max their defenses bu have a th5 army or some non-sense. Farming against TH11's with a TH6 army, good luck with that one.
You joined the forums in 2015. Surely you still remember the complaints about war mismatches back then. Making matchups based on either offense or defense is not the answer. There needs to be some kind of weight tax that takes into account differences between offense and defense and vice versa.Quote:
Originally Posted by vikingGoalie
An offense-less base does not mean you roll with a Th6 farming army. You can just upgrade 2 farming troops and barch your way to such a base. And don't tell me you expect the matchmaker to see max farming troops = max war offense.
LOL. It only became suboptimal 3 weeks ago when the update dropped (you know, the update that was supposed to fix this issue). The strategy was optimal for 3 years but suddenly became non-optimal. Gee, I wonder why people are upset? If you think the game can get along just fine by flushing loyal customers away then have fun warring by yourself when everyone else leaves.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
I bet you weren't complaining when you had the advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiscal
Exactly. In such a scenario, one could simply max out Barch, never unlock anything past Dragons, max them and loons and never even unlock a single Dark troop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chang405
Of course you would only upgrade the spells relevant to that attack. (Lightning, Rage, Earthquake and possibly Haste)
Keep the King and Queen at or under 20 and the Warden around 5-10.
You would probably match with a mid 9 and have the ability to crush a mid 10 or better.
Our advantage is that we are better attackers. Our TH9s beat their TH9s and so on. We didn't win every war, but we had a fair chance. Now, they get 12 TH11 attacks and we get 6. Our TH9s have to hit bases they can't hope to 3 star, so that puts us even further behind in number of attacks. We know as soon as the match comes in that we have lost already. After 3 years playing with the understanding that developing my base would help me, its a punch in the gut to learn that all that work is counterproductive suddenly.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
Why don't you post actual data? Like hero levels and base weight. I'm sure people would love to decide for themselves if the matchup was truly terrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiscal
Sure it sounds easy when you put it like that. But then again, you haven't considered everything. So if you have a TH3 army, you count as a TH3? Even if you're a TH11 with infernos and an EAGLE? I can't imagine anything more disastrous for the game or more disastrous for new players just starting out. For that matter, what exactly is a TH11 army anyway? Is a TH11 army the kind of army that someone has the minute their townhall is a TH11 and therefore, new townhalls are considered the same as maxed townhalls? Or is it when they unlock certain troops? Because I know of at least one clan with a monstrously long winning streak who achieved it by doing very much what you described.Quote:
Originally Posted by vikingGoalie
How do you score this one offensively?
https://s26.postimg.org/d62dlxh55/IMG_1289.png
The solution is far more complicated than you're giving it credit. If it were so easy, it'd be perfect already. The matchmaking still needs improvement for a lot of teams and Supercell will continue to adjust. Keep providing feedback, but let's leave the actual logistics to the professionals. There's a lot more to it than any of us could imagine.
If a new MMA came out tomorrow that measured only offense and did not score defense at all I would immediately begin building an offenseless (inoffensive) base. one level one camp. one level one barracks. no spell factory. Max Cannons, archer towers etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by vikingGoalie
Just saying.
Base weight?! How is that even relevant when a TH11 with a Warden and max Air Troops can weigh less than a max 7?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
Because it shows the relative offense and defense levels for both clans. Instead of just saying we have 6 warden attacks to their 12 which doesn't mean much. It would be much better to see clan A with 45/45/20, 45/45/20, 45/45/20 and then see the corresponding clan B. Maybe clan B has 45/45/20, 40/40/20, 35/35/15, 20/30/20, 30/30/10, 10/10/10. which is basically nothing. Or does clan B have 45/45/20, 45/45/20, 45/45/20, 45/45/20, 45/45/20, 45/45/20 which is much different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtownies
Likewise with defense, is it 109K, 109K, 109K for clan A and then 109K, 107K, 102K, 41K, 35K, 21K for clan B. Or is it more like 109K, 109K, 109K, 109K, 109K, 109K. There is a big difference to each and without numbers, nobody can have an informed debate.
Hmm... been a while since I've been on the forums, holidays are a wonderful thing. :cool: Apparently I'm one of the outliers here judging by the contempt of the new update, but I must say that since the update we have found our matches very fair and very even. In our 6 wars since the update we have had:
3 end in equal stars where it came down to percentage
1 end up with a one star difference
1 with a 5 star difference but I must say the bases we were up against were very poory designed
1 where the matchup was fair imo but the other clan gave up halfway through
So as for all of the claims that matchmaking has become worse, I don't see it personally.
I also see many people on here complaining about th11s th10s outnumbering them or matching up with their lower bases. The part that frustrates me about these complaints (we see the same matchups) is that people don't understand what actually makes up a th11 base or makes it effective. We've been more than outmatched if you're just compairing ths but if you look deeper the advantage isn't actually what it appears and we end up competing extremely well.
I've been on here before and talked about engineering and the matchmaking process, imo things have improved, people's understanding of what is and isn't a fair matchup on the other hand has not improved. There are so many variables that go into a war that a completely 'even' war match would be impossible under any circumstances. My opinion is that things have improved and I'm sure tweaks will be made to continue the improvement, as it should.
^ great post. agreed.
It seems like extreme engineering, defenseless, is still effective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumoSloth
I'm willing to assume you analyzed the actual match itself before the war started and that it was an even match. The end result being close tells me very little about whether it was an even match, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiscal
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightsWatchMB
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
Basically, I think dictator isn't saying the matchmaker doesn't have faults and isn't even saying those faults shouldn't be corrected. He is saying people should adjust their builds to account for those faults and that doing that will result in better matches for them. That all makes sense to me. I disagree with the suggestion, though that we shouldn't complain about bad matches here. It is good for us all to understand the matchmaker by seeing examples of when it didn't work. It also helps bring them to the attention of SC.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
Exactly, and even in the cases where it is truly a bad match, some data would help with communication. With enough data, you can make a reasonable guess at what the matchmaker is prioritizing instead if just throwing a hissy fit because you think you got outgunned.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
My clan #9288GCGG we war 24/7 , 4 to 5 th11s and 5 to 8 th10s then th9s to th8s .
Since matching change first 5/6 wars great matches and great wars won more than we lost but close and clan members engaged and viewing hits etc .
Last 3 wars won 1 (great win against clan who had 6 more th11s and th10s than us) .4 percentage win , last war 16 v 27 th11 and th10s lost due to volume of high end hits from opposition . This war ratio the same if not worst we will give it a good go but 14/15 th11/10s v 20 plus th11/10s .
its just not fun before you even lay down a troop the lower th's will be beaten by not an equal player but a buffed player . The win will be down to the th10/11 hits but as they have so many more hits available the odds are against us .
Lets be honest what player would start a game with the deck stacked so much against them , we are up for a good fight but right now it's back to we don't lose because we get beaten we get beaten before we even start.
Dont mind losing to a better clan attack and defence when you know you had a good war. We average about 95% destruction through all this crappy engineering because we work as a team and war hard but even that is not enough, we survived guys leaving and new guys coming in but what is the fun of this stratergy game anymore.
How many bases can you build to frig the system, how much time can you put in to make sure you win without even deploying a troop.
why do you need to stack the odds so much in your favour.
We got our worst match ever. :facepalm:
We
109k
101k
90k
They
109k
109k
109k
Why the hell do they have 3 max th11?! Our 2. has got an eagle but all other defenses are th9 and our 3. just upgraded to th11. The search took only 40m .... (Both clans have .5s / engineers and an equal number of th11 attackers.)
So how exactly do folks unbuild a base theyve worked up for a couple years? Please tell. This update was supposed to address the complaints about engineering. It did the opposite. It exacerbated the problem. Wars are no longer competitive unless you stop your defenses at TH7-9. Is thst really how the game is intended? Unless SC gives the capacity to undo defenses telling people to suck it up will only drive them away and crater this game we enjoy.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
We about to lose a war, us with 3 th10, 17 th9, them with 16 th10, and 4 th9.
Had about enough of this game already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warios
When typing started to think about our match ups , doesn't get affected by how many th11s we have or level , I think they are trying to get max th9s with great walls and Heros to upgrade as they are lvl that suffers .
So on the basis of your 6 or 7 wars since the update you know what's happening and will disregard the several thousand other posts on here, on the assumption all the posters are ignorant and their understanding of what is a fair war is flawed?Quote:
Originally Posted by SumoSloth
Maybe you'd like to go and look at Warios' war - I haven't seen it, but I'm certain he knows more about war than you, and if he says it's ridiculous it will be...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warios
Currently in a clan doing a 20 v 20 war. Our top 4 are TH 11s with the number 1 spot being a max TH 11 and the number 2 spot having mostly max troops but still working on defense and no eagle. Our top 7 have infernos level 2 and up and we have 7 TH 10 to go with the 4 TH 11s. The rest are TH 9s.
The opposing team has 1 max account the top 3 with eagles and maxed out war troops (bowlers, witches, dragons, miners, spells, etc). They have a total of 12 TH 11 with at least one set of max war troops. 10 of their TH 11 have wardens.
They are a very clear engineer clan that is beating up on a bunch of th 9s with spam attacks of max miners. The match making is a joke.
Supercell hasn't changed anything. It costs money to make a good engineer account and thats all its about. Well Supercell you can have your game back. I have spent my fair share of money but I'm done. It won't be long until more people follow me and supercell goes the way Atari.
MM is always a work in progress. Right now the penalized players are the ones that's played the longest and upgraded everything. I'm a max 11, can and should 3 star almost any 10 and can 75-85% another max 11. But I hurt my clan by being in war. I draw 1-2 full max if not more. Then 3-4 engineered with max offense. It my 2 attacks against their 8-12. We notice it's better if only one all max base is in. When you add the second, for our structure, it becomes a Gamble. I count on SC to find a middle ground and not punish the players that have played the most or longest. By improving the mm or even making defenses able to be sold. They will figure it out, just hope I do t lose good guys in the process.
Most wars are won at the top by the attacks with the strongest troops. Therefore, I think one of the first factors in the MMA should be the max troops that each clan has.
For example, we did a small war recently (I think it was 10v10, maybe 15v15). We brought one defenseless TH9 with a max lavaloon, and our top 2 or 3 were TH9s. Our opponent had a defenseless TH11 with L6 dragons, an engineered TH10 with L5 dragons, and a couple TH9s in their top spots. From the perspective of overall defensive weight, we were a close match.
However, clearly our opponent had the offensive advantage regardless of any other weight comparisons throughout each clan. Even if our TH9s had stronger defense and offense than their TH9s, it doesn't matter because their TH11 can easily flatten our #1 & #2 with his L6 dragons, then their TH10 can flatten #3 & #4 with his L5 dragons, then their TH9s flatten our TH8s, and so on. Easy perfect score. Our choices were to also get a perfect score and tie for 40% loot, or lose for 30%, or not even bother trying because that 10% difference is not worth the fight.
Essentially, what I'm saying is that if a clan has a TH11 with TH11-level troops, then they should only be matched against other clans with TH11-level troops. This max troop level would only be one factor in the MMA - after max troop levels are compared, then other things can be compared (how many THs have those max troops, overall TH distribution, defensive weight, other offensive weight parameters, etc.)
You are preaching to the max th11 choir here. If you aren't th11, you could move up and get the advantage. The problem is SC could fix the problem and then you regret it. Of course, people that thought that 2 years ago wish they had just done ahead and moved up to th9, th10, whatever. I don't disagree what the matchmaker didn't seem to fix the problem. My clan sees little to no change. A few people report improvement. Many more report it is worse. Complaints are more common than compliments, so that could account for some of it, but actually seeing the matches on some of these wars shows the matchmaker still isn't working. Hopefully, they can improve it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiscal
I do disagree that wars aren't competitive if your defenses exceed th9. That isn't the case, especially in smaller wars. It is true there is still a problem with engineering and especially roster engineering.
See my post above how max troops should be a first factor in the MMA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warios
In your war, I'm guessing that most if not all of their 16x TH10s have TH10-level troops but weak defense. That wouldn't happen under my proposal. For example, I'm saying that if you have 3x TH10s with TH10-level troops, then your match should also have *at most* 3 or 4 bases with TH10-level troops. They could have TH11s, but only if they didn't have TH11 troops. They could have 16 TH10s, but ~13 would have to have TH9-level troops or less.
The worst part is that SC shot themselves in the foot again. They tell us they are fixing it, build expectations and then disappoint. If they hadnt said anything there would be some grumbling but they got everyone expecting positive change and then tilted the field in favor of engineers. We cant debuild our bases.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
The number of eagles and defense levels are very important, too. This war we have one max th11 and the other clan has 3 (everything built and maxed). We can only win this war if they use gowipe lol :smirk:Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyPC
There is an easy way to fix this. When there is a match being offered the leaders of the clan are given a summary of how many THs there are at any level. So for example when a war is matched we are given a short summary of an offer to war with a clan that has 4 th 11 9 th 10 and 7 th 9 for a 20 man war. You would see nothing else. Once its accepted then the prep time starts. If its not accepted then they go back to match someone else. You would still use the same match making but it would give someone with a brain the option to say yes or no. If i have 4 th 11s and i am being offered a clan with 12 then obviously i would say no. If they have 5 or 6 maybe i will maybe i won't. Thats all on the individual trust in your members to do their job.
If that doesn't work then make it match the number of THs at any given level with a standard deviation of +/- 1 per level. So if you have 4 TH 11 then you match with other clans who have between 3 and 5 TH 11s. There are enough clans out there that this shouldn't be a huge problem. Then players would work on maxing their bases out again and it would do away with the .5 bases too. If you know your going to match with a th 10 just because your a th 10 why would you keep the defenses of a th 9?
MM has been worse since the update, we've only had 1 non engineered match in the last 2 weeks and we don't run any rushed or .5 accounts. Not even an abstract mix either, we spin like 6 th10s 10 th10s and 14 th9s. Matching is a joke right now, League Wars the only time we get to really test ourselves against even competition. I would say just run matching with TH tiers where no TH lvl can be weighted less than a lower TH below it. Of course all the rushers would throw a hissy fit though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkyFinn
Im pretty sure if that account was counted as a TH 10 (which it is) and matched with TH 10s that win streak that your talking about would be over their next war. That just goes to show how screwed up the match making system is that that works. Its even WORSE that Supercell is apparently aware of this but has done nothing to address something that extreme.
"What is a TH11 army?" Well thats extremely simple... Any troop that you have to have a TH11 to have is a TH11 army. Hmmm that didn't take much thought. You act like this is an extremely complicated issue but its not. Its being made into one by people like you who keep giving Supercell excuses. I have been playing this game since TH 10 came out. Long before wars started. I took a break for a while and come back to total garbage and nothing but excuses. I have spent my money and i have supported this game longer than many other players but Supercell does not care about that.
Let the rushers throw a fit. It would only encourage them to spend more money to catch up. Supercell wins and we get the game fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by packerfan
You are right, your answer clearly didn't take much thought. If you actually thought about it, it wouldn't make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscoe8888
TH associated upgrades are not black and white. Since this game is an open build type of game players are on different sliding scales within each TH level. Just because someone has Th11 giants doesn't mean he has a TH11 army and should match up to TH11s with eagles.
There is another word for rushers......casual players. While it is possible they would spend money after throwing a fit, what's more likely is that they would quit the game. I'll quote myself from another thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscoe8888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chang405
Quote:
Originally Posted by timeToLeave1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtownies
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightsWatchMB
You are correct, they have chosen to continue to favor the engineer. As far as I am concerned, they have picked them over the traditional build player. ♥♥♥ has managed the game for over a year now as though it was dying and they were milking the last out of it. It appears that it will be a self fulfilling prophecy.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
my clan's about ready to quit wars entirely until coc fixes its <stuff>. last few wars have our 1 11 outnumbered vs 3 or 4, seeing eagleless 11s and infernoless 10s much more than before patch. it's killed all enthusiasm and we're done trying.
Same here, our entirely non engineered clan (not a single .5s nor even any 'intelligently upgraded' bases)
get's matched not with lopsided bases but with .5 engineers every single time since the MM update,
some even have lopsided bases but these are then right at the bottom of the map.
Wars have become extremely frustrating, with a quarter or a third of the opponents' attacks being a lot stronger than ours.
We run back to back wars of 10:10 to 20:20. Our win rate has gone from 60-70% to 25% and winning relies on opponents making mistakes.
MM now seems to favor .5 engineering clans heavily.
And CW shouldn't be about which clan engineers better than the other but
rather a test of skill and teamwork versus an honourable adversary, atm wars for our clan are far from this, further than before the change.
SC please do something.
Thanks
TS
Just wanted to report in that we FINALLY got a matchup that was closer to being equal. All th10 and below. We brought 2 th10's. They brought 4 th10's. Th9 land was even 7 vs 7. Th8 land was even as well, 4 vs 4. We had 2 th7's. They had none.
Hopefully, the opening statement didn't confuse anyone. Mm is a joke still and while I'm happy to FINALLY see no th11's vs the above roster, I'm getting tired of it.
As impractical as it may seem, the th itself needs more weight in war. Obviously, troops won't be weighted to compensate for this ongoing problem so, just make the th worth the max value of the th below it irregardless of the rest of the base and add weight from there.
TH sniping was removed because people weren't playing the game "as intended". War shouldn't have been intended to have the mess we have today either.
And TS, well said above. Especially this, "winning relies on opponents making mistakes". This is most of the reason we have some greens recently. It's sad when prep day starts and the best result you can hope for is a draw(100%).
We're very sorry for your mismatches in war, I hope they improve for you soon. Here at Supercell we need to keep engineered bases around as they make us plenty cash. So, while we commiserate with your issues you're experiencing, we won't nuke engineered bases.
Clash on!
Supercell
Just as a random....actually seeing pretty good matchups in random spins as of late.
Pretty close lane-by-lane BDs, if there are engineered bases on the other side there's usually a small defensive compensation on our side.
But then, admittedly, that's from the perspective of a fairly serious war clan.
They might get a cover advantage, in that can have more attempts up top via th11 off/th9 def bases, but we regularly 3* 9.5-weak 10s with 10s, 10.5-weak 11s with 11s.
That's the deal breaker really. It's not overly easy. If your clan can't do it, then engineering holds a much bigger advantage over those that can.
Just this week alone, our family clans have seen the following TH11 breakdowns in war: 3v13 5v15 and 10v34. Worse than it's ever been.
Matchmaking is worse then ever, this war we have 5 th11s, they have 9 scattered up and down all over the place and our are all at the top with eagles, so messed up
We didn't start many wars since the update, but we are carefully checking our members, avoiding bases that could be considered engineered. We had pretty fair matches, enemy team shower up with a lopsided base but did not have that much of an impact, he only attacked to loot last minute.
So many complaints in this thread !! My clan is full of casual players th8〜th11. We war 3 times a week. Matchmaking is pretty good imo. I really think it has gotten better after the update.
In a 20 v 20 war right now..Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoTora
Us
1 max th10
1 new th10 ( th9 troop , camp , no inferno)
6 th9
Rest th8 mid to max
Eneny
Max th10
6 th9 max
1 th11 ( max troop , lvl 15 gw, 20-20 queen king)
11 th8 mid to max
The last one is a th11 with max laloon and dragon ( defenseless).
First 3 war after mm changes were good but last 4 war is lopsided as hell.
Small team of developers without any lead.
I dont expect much now..its hopeless.
When the update came to fruition....we went to war after a day....to our surprise, we got matched with engineered clan....worst ever got matched with...so upsetting but gladly, we have yet need to be beaten by them.
Match maker seems fine to me.
Any complaints all seem to be very personal (but this ONE TIME, at WAR CAMP!)
Spun again last night. Took 4 hours to get a match. We restarted twice. Got a fair match, they have 2 extra th11s, but we have 2 extra level 1 eagles. In a 40v40 match with 22+ th11s on each side, this is a great match. I can say without a doubt waiting 4 hours was waaaayyyyy worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyInGame
Well supercell just admitted that they disagreed with you. Too bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdRaven
Can we change the title of this thread to "Clan War Matchmaking UN-Improvements?"
My clan has got 3 straight balanced wars so far...
We don't have engineered bases, and we haven't found any on enemy clan yet
My clan:
2 Th9 almost full
1 th8 not rushed
a lot of th7-6-5
We've been matched with a clans that are built like this, sometimes the leader will be th10 and the rest th8-7-6 and so on, but this hasn't happened in 3 wars
5th war after the update 5th engineer after the update
we left our th9+ out this war hoping our lower levels would have a more balanced war
we have 2 th6, 3 th7, and the rest th8s -- they are facing a clan of 3 9s
I'm not doubting you, but you really have to provide more description than that. In a 10v10 war, you could have 5 TH8's at the top and they have the 3 TH9's at the top, but 7 TH4's the rest of the way. In that case, the matchmaking is likely balanced or at least close to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessKeys
Why can't SC put a sticky up trying to educate clans on weight and lineup construction, pointing out that TH level doesn't necessarily mean anything? Wouldn't that be better than 20 "we got hosed in war" threads per day?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chang405
The game is an open build game but it has milestones that players decide when to reach. When you take your base to a new TH level the game then matches you to those same TH levels in the game for trophies. When you go to TH 11 you start seeing almost all TH 11 in your raids. This is no different. If you decide it is time to take your base to a new TH before your maxed out on defense and heroes that is entirely your choice but if you do then you need to be treated the same as the TH level that you are. Not the TH level that matches your lack of defense. If you are trying to get an advantage against other players then get on youtube and watch some videos to learn to attack and come up with original base designs. Thats what this game is about. Its not intended to have a bunch of TH 11 players with max miners match up against TH 9s.
The only legitimacy to what you say is that there are sliding scales inside a TH but again fixing that doesn't take much thought. I do agree that a new TH 10 shouldn't match with a max TH 10 but thats fairly easy to have a subset of weight that first takes your TH level into account and then subdivides it into different levels of weight.
This isn't extremely difficult its just that there are so many players who have to use max miners or witch slap to be able to 3 star a base that want to complain and cry any time someone calls them what they are. Bad players.
I guess bad players spend money too though.
My current matchup. Pretty interesting. Both sides have lots of offense. They have a good advantage at the 2 spot (max 11). We have the advantage at the 3 spot (strong 10.5 vs weaker engineered 11) Everything else will be 3 starred easily. 47 win streak for them. Should be a fun war!
My guess is we will likely lose by one if we can't pull off a townhall 11 triple. They could lose by 1 if they can't triple the 10.5s or 11.
We have 8 attacks with max 11 offense
They have 12 attacks with max 11 offense
It has for a lot of clans. It has also gotten worse for a lot of clans, too. There are many variables at play, so the experience one clan has with one set of variables may be completely different than the experience another clan has with a different set of variables. For some clans, the system appears to be working as intended, but it's not working well in in our case.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoTora
We've been getting consistently lopsided matches right after the new matchmaking went into effect. In our last war of 30v30, we had seventeen Townhall 11s to our opponents' twenty-four Townhall 11s. We're a mixed townhall clan and had four TH9s, and nine TH10s where they had just two TH9s and four TH10s. I'm not accusing our opponents of doing anything wrong. In fact, I don't see anything really unusual or overly engineered about their team. They look like the usual mix of opponent bases we're used to seeing: lots of maxed bases and some newer or rushed townhalls. It's just that a seven Townhall 11 advantage is a pretty major disadvantage to overcome.
To give an idea of the disparity, I'll start with their #16. 16-TH11, maxed infernos, maxed EAGLE, one xbow level 5 (other three level 4), 40A/40B/15W heroes, everything built and upgraded to at least TH10 max. 17-one maxed inferno (other level 4), maxed EAGLE, 40/40/12 heroes, everything built and upgraded to at least TH10 max. 18-one maxed inferno (other level 4), maxed EAGLE, level 4 xbows, 21/25/10 heroes, everything built and upgraded to at least TH10/11 levels. 19-level 4 infernos, maxed EAGLE, level 4 xbows, 40/31/11 heroes, everything built or upgraded to at least TH10/11 levels. 20-one level 4 inferno (other level 3), maxed EAGLE, level 4 xbows, 32/31/5 heroes, everything built or upgraded to TH10 levels. 21-one maxed inferno (other level 3), level 1 EAGLE, one level 5 xbow (others level 4), 38/30/7 heroes, everything built or upgraded to TH10 levels. 22-level 3 infernos, level 1 EAGLE, three level 4 xbows (other level 2), 40/40/6 heroes, everything built or upgraded to TH10 levels.
We managed to 3-star eight of their TH11s. They only managed to 3-star two of ours. However, due to all the extra TH11s, they still won the war by one star. We shouldn't be saddled with a war that requires us to 3-star seven more TH11s than our opponents.
For my clan it has gotten even worse. We face more engineered clans than before. They are easy to beat is a separate issue but they clearly aren't. Getting matched with engineers.
Just sharing what our clan is experiencing. don't know the general concensus and surely can't read. The 1000+ replies on the other thread.
Would be happy to know how the others are experiencing the change.
If you read one page of that other thread you would know that majority still have problems with MM. Instead you start a pointless and redundant thread.
First 5 matchup for us were horrible we're a maxer clan with no funny business in the war lineup.
I think something changed because the last 3 were mostly even for us and them.
This most recent war they have the advantage at the top and bottom so hopefully they are bad attackers.
If I had to give a vote as of the last week I would say it's much improved.
If you really want to know, just do a search. There are hundreds if not thousands of threads created regarding the new match making system.Quote:
Originally Posted by manchestercityfc
He told you not to tell him thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Endofdays
We are Currently in a war.. Probably the worst match up ever.
our lineup enemy line up
1- th11 vs th11
2- th11 vs th11
3- th11 vs th11
4- th10 vs th11
5- th10 vs th11
6- th9.75 vs th11
7-th9.75 vs th11
8-th9.5 vs th11
9- th9.5 vs th11
10-th9 vs th11
11- th9 vs th10.5
12- th9 vs th10.5
13- th9 vs th9.75
14- th9 vs th9.75
15- th9 vs th ?(Well Engineered with one tiny cannon)
15 v 15 war...
We got no idea how to win this....
OP I'm glad your matches are rubbish, serves you right for the football:mad:
Seriously, without knowing your clan lineup it's hard to know what sort of imbalance you are getting but it seems most line ups are getting fairly random matches, for every complaint we see though there is a happy clan on the other end of that match. It's so difficult to work out where the sweet spots are for fair wars, at least before the 'update' we were getting an idea about how to avoid engineering mismatches, now it just seems random.
Everyone knows it's easier to beat an engineered base than a 'normal' progression one, the problem is caused by the two higher offence attacks from the engineered base to only one defence. I don't know what the solution is, it seems SC don't either. But there are a lot of good ideas in the Clan Wars sub forum, and a lot of terrible ideas too...
I didn't notice the OP's name. I guess he'll try to gem himself to victory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevejnr
We searched a 10 vs 10 war to avoid a bad match and drew an engineered clan anyway. I told my co leaders not to waste their elixir by putting expensive troops in war castles and all our war castles are empty. Most of our core group of members have left the clan to join some Orange League/FWA clan or gone completely inactive from long hero upgrades at TH9 and getting engineered clans in war. We're either gonna do casual wars or go inactive. I've lost much of my enthusiasm for real wars.
I have to say that some of these "this is unfair!" threads, then giving very limited detail about the match-up, is very strange.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Maverick
It seems common that someone lists all the TH, and not much else, in regards to whether a war is balanced or not and it baffles me. With respect, I don't understand how you could possibly think that, with the limited info given above, how anyone could possibly agree/disagree with your assessment.
I would agree that, in general, it does appear awful, but a lot more detail is often needed to really appreciate just how bad it is
I think the vast majority would agree the new mm is far worse. SC honestly should roll back their last update and go back to the old mma until they can sort things out.
I really don't think I need to give a complete dissertation for lookie loos when I say it is unbalanced. Our lowest was a 6, their lowest was a 6. In a 15/15 war 3 th9s are almost half of the attacks. Our top 8s are some of our best players but on their th8 accounts are not going to be taking out 3 th9s.Quote:
Originally Posted by xc3ss1v30n3
Th11- with infernos and eagleQuote:
Originally Posted by Lunaticfringe
Th9.75 th11 without ea and inferno
10- maxed th10
Th9- maxed th9-
9.5 th10 without infernos
It's like 5th11 vs 15th11.
That matchup seems impossible. Not saying you're lying but the weights don't line up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Maverick
why would lady maverick need to lie answer is she doesnt her war shows how bad the war mm is at the moment its that simpleQuote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
I do not think anyone in this forum knows the MMA well enough to say that the matchup is impossible. Perhaps you can tell us how you know that the MMA will never resolve to this kind of matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
The matchup isn't possible. The weights are too far off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrlk
The matchup is off by 200K at least. I find it hard to believe that one clan would outweigh the other on defense by 200K.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorbash098
First off how did you determine the weight without looking at the bases?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
Which part of the MMA prevents this from happening? We will need to see the algorithm or at least the part of the algorithm that prevents this scenario. Of course you will also have to make sure that we can accept that the algorithm came from SC.
The weights are based on her own description of each base. For example, a townhall 11 will weight between 102 and 109K. A 10.5 will weigh 91-92K and a 9.75 is somewhere between 75 and 82K.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorbash098
It's possible that she misrepresented some if the so called 11s. They could be some version of engineered with really low level defenses but then they really wouldn't be a .5 or .75.
200K is almost 2 max 11s missing from one roster. Hard to believe!
Based on what? Does your proposed range of base weight take into account engineered bases? All you have are TH levels and you are making a gross estimation of their weight. I have seen TH11s with a weight that of a TH6. I am not saying that this is indeed the case but your proposed ranges does not seem to fit many other scenarios.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
Again, how do you know that the MMA will not make this match? Show us how from the perspective of the MMA that this is not possible.
A townhall 11 base with the weight of a townhall 6 weighs between 21-30K and by any metric is not a 9.75, 10.5, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorbash098
Nope Sir,Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
By misrepresenting i neither gain or lose anything.. I know we've lost the war anyways.
well,As I'm a th9.75 (max defenses without Eagle and Inferno) I still get placed under a th10 with level1 inferno(considering th9 point defenses). that's the weight what inferno and EA has.
I would have mentioned a th10.5 for a th11.
Why i mentioned th11 is because they all have inferno and EA.
Never blamed regarding matchup. previously matched against 5 th11 vs 12 th11's and won by 0.18% .This one i DID coz i finally came to that point where i myself could not believe.And i saw the top thread in a place where i visit always.
So? You still cannot establish that your estimates are correct because details of the bases are unknown. You have no clue whether or not that TH11 from the opponent side has a weight of a TH8. You are assuming that your definition of .5 and .75 matches that of Lady Maverick and that .x is applied appropriately across the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
If I were to assume that you are correct in your estimation, where in the algorithm does it say that this will not occur?
If the base had the weight of a townhall 8, the proper term would be 8.11. How can you communicate effectively if you change the meaning of terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorbash098
This is the reason why folks like superstorm get a lot of well deserved credit. He'll list a breakdown for each side listing hero levels and base weights. It makes for a very informed discussion.
Is there a list of proper terms? Searched all the official SC documentation, and have not found it yet, can you link this information please, so we all can know what is considered the official SC terminology.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator