Clan War Matchmaking Improvements

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Originally Posted by MenionLeah

Let's say they get him 100% every 20 hours (if he is titan1 or legend for example). He losses 450k of each. All he has to do to recover the lost loot and even get more is attack ONCE in 4 hour guard he has. If he attacks 4 times during the guard he will have profit of at least 1-2 million of each everyday. Everyone who think that an engineers have a tough life are quite wrong. An active player will have almost 0 trouble to maintain engineered base. With 4 attacks he might even recover trophies as well.

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A defenseless base is sometimes stomped every half not once every day.
If you don't deploy 30% of an army you don't give them a shield regardless of if you three star them.
They're not losing a defenses once every 20 hours, you're just wrong.

Not sure if this has dropped but our latest pairing is the heaviest we have ever seen. We are running a th 11 max no infernos or eagle, and 3 th10s no infernos as our top 4. The opposing clan has a th11 with eagle and lvl 3 inferno and 3 th10 with infernos. That's an eagle and 8 infernos to our 0 ...... 20 v 20 max nines run down to 10 and 8s to th6 to the bottom on both sides. We do have a th 10 minimax at 19. Has the weight changed for these top tier defences?

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Originally Posted by Sdunker

What you did there was took what I said, made it into something I didn't say, and then tried to attribute it back to me.

First - there are plenty of engineered bases that aren't maxed TH11 troops and titan/legend trophies. In fact, I've only ever personally encountered one that was. I'm sure there are more out there but using only the most extreme examples makes a poor point. I am discussing the average engineered base experience across all levels, not citing the least nor the greatest example.

Second, in my experience, unless you want to sit there searching and searching for a long time for a whale of an abandoned account loaded with loot, it takes two attacks to recover and gain on the loss from a 100% defeat.

Third - Your explanation of attacking four times during a shield might be correct - it can be hugely profitable and more than recover losses but here's the thing - that is at least just as true for non-engineered bases and often even more so. Because while the engineered base basically consigns itself to being totally or near-totally destroyed every time, the traditional base will often get a big shield without suffering max losses. They will mitigate their losses of whatever resource is most valuable to them - usually elixir and dark - by placing it near the center and near the best defenses. So they'll often take 42% losses, preserve most of the resources that really matter to them, and get the same opportunity to attack under shields that the engineered bases have.

Fourth - Engineered bases will suffer greater losses than regular bases much more frequently and therefore spend more of their attack time recovering losses before they can start actually gaining loot. It's not "hard" but attacking successfully several times during a shield does require time and diligence, which is what I really said - not "a poor engineer with TH11 troops has soo much problems recovering loot cause he is stomped every day".

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I went back to re read your previous post thinking that I probably missed something. But I am still seeing the same. You are against any changes to MM because being an engineer has its drawbacks. And as one of those you are mentioning is retaining the loot. Basically you are justifying the engineer having an advantage in war because he has a tougher life in MP. I just gave you an example that is not the case but it doesn't have to be TH11, it applies to every TH lower and in most of the leagues (with slight differences in VG time and league bonus and troops used and number of attacks). Any active engineer with adequate troops for his TH level will have no problem gaining back the lost loot in no time. Of course CASUAL engineers will have little more problems, but that also applies even to maxer casual players since TH11 update and removal of TH sniping.

I will get back to extreme example(as you say) in highest leagues and highest THs where the benefits are biggest but also losses are biggest as well.
Engineered TH11 gives 450k of each (as I mentioned), loot cart is 20% (90k), which means he lose max of 360k of gold and elixir every attack.
Lets say a regular max TH11 being attaked for around 60% average one or two stars in highest leagues (it is not an accurate percentage sometimes is lower sometimes is higher, but at least a higher percentage one star is quite a norm there). That means that he will lose 270k of elixir and gold each. Deduct the loot cart and it is 216k loss for him. So the difference is 146k per attack between a maxer and an engineer, not much isn't it? And lower the TH level difference will be also lower.

But lets see another side: a maxer is in a maxer clan and losses against engineers. Instead of gaining war bonus (for example) 1M of each he will get only 300K. Engineer is in an engineered clan and wins against maxer clan. He gets 1M war bonus every 2 days. That is 700k total of each or a 350k per day more than a maxer. Even if engineer gets attacked every 12 hours in MP the difference in stolen loot from the maxer is 146x2=292k per day and as you saw he makes 350k per day more than a maxers from wars, which puts him in a total gain of 68k over the maxer.

So, it is quite a misconception that engineers have a tougher life, on a contrary simple math shows that they have an easier one.

And last but not least back to your thought that having an engineered account and a clan doesn't mean a guaranteed win and that is why there should not be any changes. Yes, it doesn't give them a guaranteed win but it gives them a guaranteed starting advantage, which is exactly why there are so many complains. And whether the engineers will capitalize on their advantage and win or not has no merit in the subject.

I doubt that are many who wants engineers to be banned or removed, they all just want their starting advantage to be removed.

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Originally Posted by PhilISuppose

A defenseless base is sometimes stomped every half not once every day.
If you don't deploy 30% of an army you don't give them a shield regardless of if you three star them.
They're not losing a defenses once every 20 hours, you're just wrong.

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10 months ago I had a defenseless TH9. It had 248 defense wins sitting in masters and crystal all the time. We had a few of those in our clan before october update and after that we decided to go the maxer route. Now it is maxed (except walls) and believe it or not has only 2 more defenses since (although it is in champs 2 and 3 now). Same player with barch or goblins or something will push next on a max base, but will attack defenseless one for sure. I had experienced only a few attacks that ended with a less than 30% deployment and some of them were even defense wins.
There are ways to protect defenseless bases for at least 30% troop deployment, certain designs, hidden teslas, traps, heroes, solid CC.

TL;DR if SC will improve matchmaking..any idea if troop lvl vs troop lvl will be the basis is possible for pairing regardless the TH lvl you are or there is a possibility you could be placed automatically at any order on the war map..i.e.. last war you're #1 then this war you are already #8 caused you are paired with same level of troops due to engineered base enemy...
TIA

Has there been any more communication from Darian on this matter?

Or was this just a delay tactic to quell the anti-engineer storm?

Did these "improvements" actually take effect yet? 2 hrs search last night with no match found and going on 2.5 hrs tonight.

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Originally Posted by SplashBuzz

Did these "improvements" actually take effect yet? 2 hrs search last night with no match found and going on 2.5 hrs tonight.

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Looks like you have someone with TH12 war weight in your war map.
2.5 hours of war search is crazy.
😂😂

An interview with Darian offering further insight into the upcoming matchmaking changes is available here :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qei_m6cL5mM

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Originally Posted by Skrags

An interview with Darian offering further insight into the upcoming matchmaking changes is available here :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qei_m6cL5mM

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Just saw it, it kinda proved my suspicions that it is going to be only a tweak in current algorithm. Well, engineers have nothing to fear, they will only have to engineer bit more and a bit different and some will fit in immediately.