Clan War Matchmaking Improvements

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Originally Posted by TITAN54

We have just had a 15 v 15 war
Our team consisted of :
1 - Th10
2- Th9
3- Th9
4- Th10
5- Th9
6- Th9
7- Th9
8- Th9
9- Th9
10- Th9
11- Th8
12- Th7
13 - Th7
14- Th4
15- Th4

Opponents team consisted of:

1- Th10
2- Th10
3- Th9
4- Th9
5- Th9
6- Th10
7- Th9
8- Th8
9- TH11
10- TH11
11- TH7
12- TH11
13- TH7
14- TH10
15- TH7

Please can you tell me the matchmaking in that ??

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It looks like you used at least one engineered base (#4) and you also tried to roster engineer (which to many is the most hated form of engineering) by putting some low weight bases at the bottom of your map. I have no problem with your #4, but personally I am glad to see your th4s at the bottom did nothing for you other than to cause you to match an engineered clan.

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Originally Posted by Klavious

The 2nd group is better at engineering than the first?

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Yep.

Roster engineering is no different than base engineering. It's all engineering.

When people complain about engineering -- they're complaining about lineups like yours.

For the record: I don't care that your clan engineers. If SC wants to do something about it, they will.

My opinion is that, just like in real war, if you're not trying to get an edge, you're not trying very hard and are going to lose.

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Originally Posted by Chang405

You should really avoid broad sweeping statements. I have a clan mate who used to have a defenseless base.... a defenseless TH8. She saw other defenseless bases in war and thought it would be a different (fun) way to play the game (her main base has always taken the maxing route). She didn't do it for the MM advantage; in fact by having that Dless base in our lineup our clan was more likely to match better engineered Dless bases (bring us a disadvantage). But she was having fun so I let her roll with it. She has since grown out of that and is finding new fun in making that base a manicured base.

In short, people do things for different reasons.

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Nothing in your statement contradicts anything I said in mine. Regardless of whether your clanmate had fun engineering or not she did it for the effect in war. If it wasn't for war MM she would not have done it. My point was outside of the war effect no one would ever just decide to push or farm building an engineered base. My statement stands, and no, for the most part people all engineer for the same reason.

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Originally Posted by gb410

So apparently engineering is now considered a valid playstyle by Supercell, otherwise they would not have bent over backwards to avoid nerfing engineering. This decision disappoints me greatly. The sole purpose of engineering and the only reason why engineered bases even exist is to generate mismatches in war. So now (assuming the new matchmaking even works properly) you will have divided your clan pool into two separate groups, the engineers and the non-engineers, which will reduce the number of available clans in each group for matching, thereby making the matching process take longer. All just to avoid offending the engineers. Great job, Supercell.

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Can't agree with this enough.

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Originally Posted by nstar612

There is no need to target engineered bases or any other play style. Let people play anyway they like, but make each war as competitive as possible. Here are my suggestions:


1. Analyze each player's past war performances and start quantifying a player's war attack skill. Assign a score to each player, i.e. 100 for someone who can 3 star max TH11s everytime.


2. Start building models to reliably predict which clan is going to win the match. Keep adjusting the process until you achieve reasonable accuracy. There are tons of data points and past war results to make this happen.


3. Apply the new "AI" to the matchmaking system. Have it run simulations against all clans currently searching. Pick war matchhes based on simulation results. Results with least reliability suggest two clan are more evenly matched.


4. Feed new war results back into training the models to make your "AI" more accurate.


This process should produce matches where player skills are more evenly matched. It also prevents someone from manipulating the system as the system constantly updates itself with new data.

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I don't even know what to say to this. So your MM would essentially punish clans who win with worse matchups? This is absurd.

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Originally Posted by 2222

So everyone can win 50% of their wars? Terrible unskilled clans with 50/50 war records the same as very skilled clans that spend a lot of time and thought on their war? I hate that recent war success is even any factor at all. That said, I could get behind a war trophy system that takes the trophies into account in the match. That way, the win/loss record isn't the only way to judge a clan's success. In fact, it would end up being the least important of the ways because the trophies would be much more important.

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Not sure what would be your top requirement for clan war? If you want competitiveness and even/fair match-ups every time, then wouldn't the win/loss records trends toward 50/50? If you want to room for long win streaks, then you are opening door for someone to manipulate the system. In my proposal, someone can still maintain a winning streak by constantly building new/better war bases and constantly upgrading their skills. But the streak will be challenging as the clan is likely to face tougher and tougher opponents equal to their own skill levels. I agree that a clan's win/loss records shouldn't factor into match-making as it's the "current" players in the war roster that determine a clan's strength. The match-making algorithm needs to looking each player's past war performances.

Every "easy" match-up means it's probably a "mismatch" for another clan. I don't know how else you can keep everyone happy when trying to reach for fairness. Perhaps SC should come out with a league system for clan wars to differentiate competition levels.

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Originally Posted by WiseGuyClasher

I don't even know what to say to this. So your MM would essentially punish clans who win with worse matchups? This is absurd.

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What's your definition of worse matchup? My proposed MM aims to match up every clan based on their players' "current" skill levels. If the players demonstrated their skill levels in previous war, shouldn't MM try to match them with someone equal to their skill levels? Why would that be a punishment?

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Originally Posted by nstar612

What's your definition of worse matchup? My proposed MM aims to match up every clan based on their players' "current" skill levels. If the players demonstrated their skill levels in previous war, shouldn't MM try to match them with someone equal to their skill levels? Why would that be a punishment?

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So if a clan with all th10s for example keeps winning your solution is to make them face 11s because their skill warrants the matchup being harder regardless of how even the weight, etc. is? That in my opinion is punishment.

Or are you thinking in that example they would just get another clan with all th10s that is as skilled as they are? Because I'm pretty sure that matchup would take days to find.

To my best we can do is not allowed up of City Hall without having all the improvements. That controlaria the inginerias. Something like the village at night.

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Originally Posted by WiseGuyClasher

So if a clan with all th10s for example keeps winning your solution is to make them face 11s because their skill warrants the matchup being harder regardless of how even the weight, etc. is? That in my opinion is punishment.

Or are you thinking in that example they would just get another clan with all th10s that is as skilled as they are? Because I'm pretty sure that matchup would take days to find.

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Definitely the latter. Yes, if you are the top clan with the most skilled players, then it would be most difficult to find a fair matchup for you under any MM system. But for most clans that sits in the middle of the skill range, this shouldn't be a problem. I have also heard people say they wouldn't mind longer search time for a better matchup. Even, if top TH10 clan gets matched with a few TH11s and lost, the AI would be adjusted in real-time to determine a cap on the player's capabilities based on that war result.

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Originally Posted by nstar612

Definitely the latter. Yes, if you are the top clan with the most skilled players, then it would be most difficult to find a fair matchup for you under any MM system. But for most clans that sits in the middle of the skill range, this shouldn't be a problem. I have also heard people say they wouldn't mind longer search time for a better matchup. Even, if top TH10 clan gets matched with a few TH11s and lost, the AI would be adjusted in real-time to determine a cap on the player's capabilities based on that war result.

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If they could pull that off then sure, but they are having a hard enough time just achieving a balance based on weights/th levels. If you start adding an additional variable for player skill without allowing the MM to simply force skilled clans to face higher weights I don't think there are anywhere near enough matches out there for it to work.

And given an example of an all th10 clan, if they match a clan with even 2 th11s and both are skilled that is a massive advantage even if it is only 2 bases.

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Originally Posted by WiseGuyClasher

If they could pull that off then sure, but they are having a hard enough time just achieving a balance based on weights/th levels. If you start adding an additional variable for player skill without allowing the MM to simply force skilled clans to face higher weights I don't think there are anywhere near enough matches out there for it to work.

And given an example of an all th10 clan, if they match a clan with even 2 th11s and both are skilled that is a massive advantage even if it is only 2 bases.

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TH level and offense/defense weights alone shouldn't determine a good matchup. 2 extra TH11s might not be much of an advantage if the players in that clan have trouble 3 starring all TH10s. Player's past war performances are much better indicators of a clan's strength. Yes, this would require SC to upgrade their technology if they haven't already looked into machine learning and AI.