The true debate.. Is it fair to Engineers to change the MM?

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Originally Posted by xXXCHRISXXx

I'd love to see one warn people before they place heavy defense such as mortars or wizard towers.

Careful Cheif, that defense carries a lot of war weight! You may not want to place it until you're a townhall 11!

Common sense tells you how to play the game. Common sense tells me that Supercell spends time making the content so they must want me to use every bit of it?

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Content can become obsolete (unbeneficial) and the timing on using said content is also not specified. I agree with you, SC needs to be more transparent in how it determines weights. It makes no sense to build mortars and shoot yourself in the war foot in the current environment. But when Th9 was the highest base, maybe it made perfect sense to build mortars? If you look at the BB mode, it was pretty obvious after a few days the best way to play the game was to rush to the highest TH level and then slowly build up your defenses.

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Originally Posted by strandwolfza

just like when supercell removed th snipping and jonas said that it wasn't the way the game was intended to be played, we can confortably understand that not building any defenses and strategically maxing one specific type of offense (with the intent of gaming the MM) wasn't the way supercell intended this game to be played either

no?

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I don't see how TH sniping and engineering can be compared given the previous statements released by SC. Sure, if a SC representative came out and said "engineering is not how the game is supposed to be played" I will concede that point. However, I have yet to see a definitive statement to that effect. All we know is that they want to keep base diversity while work towards a more balanced MM system.

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Originally Posted by Chang405

All we know is that they want to keep base diversity while work towards a more balanced MM system.

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Everyone can choose to build their base as they want, and work for diversity if they want, but not building defense should put you at a disadvantage, not advantage.

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Originally Posted by Funktastic

There is no manual on Coc but:

- All competitions organized by SC avoid engineers
- Matchmaking was correct before someone found that there is a loophole
- You decided to exploit this loophole (here you should begin to think that your way of playing is not the way SC first decided to be)
- SC said that they work and tweak the MM to avoid engineering
- Troops are balanced to attack the same TH level.
- SC release defenses and defenses level in order to build them, not to avoid them.
- SC announced an other change on MM, it's probably because they are not happy with it.
- Maxing doesn't give you an advantage over other normal players.

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-SC doesn't organize competitions.
-Match making was never correct. In the good old days, MM would randomly give one clan a huge advantage 8 Th10s vs 2 Th10s. Engineering wasn't even a thing back then.
-I didn't decide to exploit anything, you have no idea why I decided to engineer.
-SC said they are working to create a more balanced MM. They didn't even use the word "engineering".....lopsided bases is the key word here.
-Troops are balanced to attack the same TH level???? That tells me you have not reached TH10 yet.......
-Yes you should build your defenses, but where does it say WHEN you should build them?
-Here you are right, SC is not happy with the MM.
-According to Sinofdusk, maxing has never giving you an advantage. I'm not sure if its true or not.

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Originally Posted by Chang405

It makes no sense to build mortars and shoot yourself in the war foot in the current environment.

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That's exactly what I'm getting at. You get mortars at th5-6? Let's just say th5. People are already ruining their accounts at th5. How many new players at th5 are war weight savvy? These same th5 players place their mortars, spend a year or more building their bases only to find out they've chosen the wrong path and there isn't an re-do button. They're stuck eating the years they've invested.

Now, here's the serious question. How many of those type of players are you will to wager would start completely over? All the way back to th5, only to not build any heavy defense. Remember, this process will take years once again. How many of them do you think is sticking around?

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Originally Posted by xXXCHRISXXx

I'd love to see one warn people before they place heavy defense such as mortars or wizard towers.

Careful Cheif, that defense carries a lot of war weight! You may not want to place it until you're a townhall 11!

Common sense tells you how to play the game. Common sense tells me that Supercell spends time making the content so they must want me to use every bit of it?

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Well said Chris! No first account casual pick up and player is NOT going to build that Mortar (or Wiz Tower) early on in the game, because they are so powerful against those early troops (Barbs,Archers,Giants etc)

By weighting these splash defences heavily, SC are penalising the volume player from the get go.
Not good!

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Originally Posted by Funktastic

Everyone can choose to build their base as they want, and work for diversity if they want, but not building defense should put you at a disadvantage, not advantage.

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Talk to SC about that. I don't control game mechanics I'm just playing here. I'll engineer as long as its rewarded, if SC comes up with a death blow I've got two max accounts and can even up some others pretty quickly.
Your problem is with the game, not the players. Is it reasonable to demand that players play by extra rules that you're making up?

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Originally Posted by Chang405

Content can become obsolete (unbeneficial) and the timing on using said content is also not specified. I agree with you, SC needs to be more transparent in how it determines weights. It makes no sense to build mortars and shoot yourself in the war foot in the current environment. But when Th9 was the highest base, maybe it made perfect sense to build mortars? If you look at the BB mode, it was pretty obvious after a few days the best way to play the game was to rush to the highest TH level and then slowly build up your defenses.



I don't see how TH sniping and engineering can be compared given the previous statements released by SC. Sure, if a SC representative came out and said "engineering is not how the game is supposed to be played" I will concede that point. However, I have yet to see a definitive statement to that effect. All we know is that they want to keep base diversity while work towards a more balanced MM system.

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I think its fair to say you never will see such a statment from SC. I do believe a mod or perhaps darien did say SC is aware of the problem engineering causes and they dont like it. Its not a direct scolding by SC but I believe its about as close as you will get. I think the diversty comment is them thinking of rushers, they dont want to hurt them but seem on a path to try and hurt the engineered bases. I for one have doubts they will successfully but seems clear its a goal.

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Originally Posted by Skrags

Well said Chris! No first account casual pick up and player is NOT going to build that Mortar (or Wiz Tower) early on in the game, because they are so powerful against those early troops (Barbs,Archers,Giants etc)

By weighting these splash defences heavily, SC are penalising the volume player from the get go.
Not good!

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Exactly, and there isn't any option in game to fix it. The only option is to start over, in a game that takes YEARS to progress to higher level play. Players are ruining their accounts at the very start of their clash experience.

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Originally Posted by Funktastic

Everyone can choose to build their base as they want, and work for diversity if they want, but not building defense should put you at a disadvantage, not advantage.

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It's that simple. Your sentence should be enough to close the debate.

Onyx posted in one of his excellent 'How to fix' threads that the Mortar should be zero defensive weight. While I wouldn't say Zero is absolutely right, he's not far off imo.
:thumbsup: