The true debate.. Is it fair to Engineers to change the MM?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by strandwolfza

this is wrong. you made the claim, you have to back it up. you can't simply argument that what you say is right until someone proves you wrong. you need to have proof for your claim, otherwise people shouldn't even give it a difference

---

In my mind, i do not care if people here give it a difference or not. I do not owe you anything nor i gain anything if people act any different based on the info that i gave you. I am not your teacher who needs to tell you step by step of the solution for a math problem. When there are 2 road ahead of you to the right or to the left. I give you info for you to take the left. When you use the info to go to the left or not, i do not gain by any of your action. So i do not need to back it up any further. If i have something to gain by your action, that will be a different story. If you want to take the info and follow it, ok by me. If you toss the info and prentend that as a background noise, it also fine by me. No difference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MouthofSauron

I'd also point out that they have apparently been aware of, and doing something about, engineering for at least a year now, with little to no effect. Supercell (via Darian) has said they are trying to fix the 'problem' of 'lopsided' bases, but have given no clear indication of what they even consider 'lopsided'. In fact, Darian himself has even publicly stated that his clan only runs into 'lopsided' bases about 1 in every 20 wars. So given that fact, I'd say it's not as much a problem to them as you anti engineers seem to think it is. Nor as big a priority.

---

you may be right, but supercell received a very strong response in the builder base update, here in the forums and in their AMA, where people constatly asked when they would fix the engineering problem. as funktastic said:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Funktastic

I think that SC understood that every update would always be challenged while the MM is not fixed.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MouthofSauron

EDIT: I think when they finally do come up with/ announce their 'solution' to the problem, the anti engineering crowd is going to be sorely disappointed with it.

---

me too, we're talking about supercell after all

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by J1mh1d

In my mind, i do not care if people here give it a difference or not. I do not owe you anything nor i gain anything if people act any different based on the info that i gave you. I am not your teacher who needs to tell you step by step of the solution for a math problem. When there are 2 road ahead of you to the right or to the left. I give you info for you to take the left. When you use the info to go to the left or not, i do not gain by any of your action. So i do not need to back it up any further. If i have something to gain by your action, that will be a different story. If you want to take the info and follow it, ok by me. If you toss the info and prentend that as a background noise, it also fine by me. No difference.

---

You didn't give any INFO, you gave your opinion....a GUESS. Infos are backed up by solid facts and evidence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MouthofSauron

A good analogy would actually be valid. Yours is neither good, nor valid.

They also showcase the CWL despite the fact they know that there is rampant cheating in it via modding, which is in fact against the TOS. So I'm not sure what your point there is? Hardly what I'd call a compelling argument for your 'case'.

I'd also point out that they have apparently been aware of, and doing something about, engineering for at least a year now, with little to no effect. Supercell (via Darian) has said they are trying to fix the 'problem' of 'lopsided' bases, but have given no clear indication of what they even consider 'lopsided'. In fact, Darian himself has even publicly stated that his clan only runs into 'lopsided' bases about 1 in every 20 wars. So given that fact, I'd say it's not as much a problem to them as you anti engineers seem to think it is. Nor as big a priority.

As far as hurt feelings go, you seem to be one of the only ones here with hurt feelings. I'm not the one throwing around insults, or having a temper tantrum like an 8 yr old. That would be you.

EDIT: I think when they finally do come up with/ announce their 'solution' to the problem, the anti engineering crowd is going to be sorely disappointed with it.

---

Rampant is kind of extreme, or aggressive phraseology. It was actually very low... but the "account sharing" cast a wider net. your facts are bad.

but unfortunately it does exist.

I think most recognize engineering isnt a problem.. the match maker is the problem. I really dont care how strangers on the internet choose to build their base.

A solution has already been provided, the Friendly war.

Start using that, and not the random one. problem solved

I look at it this way, please tell me what any of you think:

Engineering IS an exploit that gains gives an advantage and removes an element of skill and advanced tactic from the game.

If EVERYONE engineered war would be full of draws 90% of the time and therefore ruin that very large element of the game.

Engineers NEED people to not engineer to be able to have such an advantage.

These 3 points and the fact I'm sick to the back teeth of engineered tell me it is wrong. ALTHOUGH from the little I know the same method https://cocp.it/ uses to recognize engineered bases could be used by SC to do so and match engineered against engineered?

I know there is an announcement coming and hope it isn't a 'deal with it' sort of thing. Because if so the game has become 'Take half built bases or lose'.

IMO any game with a player base that focuses on an exploit to win has swiftly gone to cookies and lost a large portion of its fun. Feels more like people would rather try underhand tricks to take as much as they can. It is only 'fair' technically, the same way it is 'fair' that Trump is president.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mansell

I look at it this way, please tell me what any of you think:

Engineering IS an exploit that gains gives an advantage and removes an element of skill and advanced tactic from the game.

If EVERYONE engineered war would be full of draws 90% of the time and therefore ruin that very large element of the game.

Engineers NEED people to not engineer to be able to have such an advantage.

rest of post redacted

---

My engineered clan faces other engineered clans NINTY PERCENT of the time. We have ZERO draws in 257 wars. I certainly don't need people to not engineer to have an advantage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClasherClash443

You realize no analogy in the history of the world could ever be used if the two things being compared had to be 100% the same right?

Other than "nope sorry I disagree with you" and discounting everything I wrote because sports and video games are not identical, you haven't said much of anything. Your counter points aren't even valid.

I get it, you think you are super genius strategy player and out smarting those that you defeat. I also use the same techniques you use. I just don't pretend like it's something it's not.

My point was the merits of engineering are very similar to those of steroid use. My point was that in CWL, which is held by the game maker as the highest form of war (since they showcase it frequently, via in-game news), engineerig IS illegal. Why? Because it's managable to remove it from war in a controlled setting. There is no possible way they can ban engineering for the general population. But all signs point to yes they would, if they could.

Do you have any counter points to those? Or just more of the same "nope, you are wrong" without anything to back up your claims?

I'm sorry that being told one of your most advantageous play styles is garbage and pathetic hurts your feelings so much. But it's the truth and pretty much everyone who isn't engaging in it agrees on that. Even the game maker is looking to get rid of it, because they know it's just flat out bad for the game.

---

I will try this one more time. Trying to stick to facts, or at least generally accepted opinions with a majority. You seem to state an opinion. Then claim it's a fact.

Facts:
Engineers build bases to optimize for random war spins.
Currently, the mm provides an advantage to clans that do this well.
This advantage has been in place for over a year.
Modding is against the terms of service
CWL does not allow for modding or for engineered bases, but has tiers for th's to better match.
CWL has multiple occurrences of players modding, and some clans hedging on the tier structure.
Some very prominent clans in CWL advocated for x.5 for a long time.
The mm is the same for everyone.

Opinions:
Engineering is strategy
CWL is the highest form of war
maxing or non engineering is the right way to play
SC would eliminate engineering if they could.

statements from a biased participant
engineering is garbage
engineering is flat out bad for the game
engineering is analogous to steroid use.

Can't argue facts
It's difficult to discuss opinions as yours is just as valid as mine.
making ridiculous statements leads to discussions being closed by the mods.

I'm not sure what counterpoint we should be making. CWL doesn't allow engineering. The NDL doesn't allow dips. Both facts. We did an friendly war. Made every ground attacker use air, and every air attacker use ground. In a controlled environment you can make up whatever rules you want.

Maybe try and discuss or make arguments to defend your opinions.

It would be great if it become like builder base like u can't upgrade ur th without having all the defenses and other things and those who are done has to be forced to do so

Please....No swearing, No insults and No personal abuse. If I have to step in again I will close this guys and gals....and after 26 pages of decent debate I really don't want to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xXXCHRISXXx

I haven't gotten a clue at what you're trying to get at but I'll take a swing anyways.

How would Supercell know what the purchased gems was being used for? How would they know if the gems were bought for an enginnered account? I'm certain they don't track what gems are being used for. They get paid and that's the end of the road for them. They keep track of purchases but not what you do with them gems. So, I doubt even Supercell has the info you're suggesting to be provided.

You are correct, losing one doesn't matter. However, lose a handful and notice will be taken.

Why is this even being debated? Just last year the saying was, engineered accounts are as rare as a unicorn, now they provide the most revenue for Supercell?

---

Actually, it is fairly easy. On their database, SC can do query, select on any account bought gem this month, select high th ex. 10 and 11. Select out of those the th weight as th 8 or below. There you will find any eng accounts.
This is so much easier than making the "squid" module to pick up/recognized any mod accounts.

I am not saying most revenue by eng account. What i said is that more eng accounts contribute money for SC by margin not by amount.
If total of the account divided into 2 groups
1. Eng accounts
2. Not eng accounts
How many percentage of eng account buy gems
Out of group no 1?
How many percentage of not eng account buy gems out of group no 2?
I am pretty sure the percentage is much higher on eng account because of so many f2p account out there. But still money is money, SC want to reap as much as they can. Until up to a point those eng accounts group do not contribute as much money anymore, then they will do something regarding the MM. But until then, all of the threads created by the forums or any other places, SC will treat it as a background noise and ignore them.
And i am pretty sure, SC already know what to do regarding eng account. They are just waiting for the right time (for them) to implement their solution.
And as you are saying last year as rare as unicorn. This year still rare, but as rare as endangered animal. No doubt they are growing in number. Haha
And lastly, i do not know if they pay close attention on what the gems are being used for in a particular account. But i am sure they can analize it. When SC cut the training time in half. I am pretty sure they have some data on how many people boost their barracks. Cutting training time is a really big step for them. Do you think if enough people boost their barracks regularly, SC will kind enough to reduce the training time by half so they do not need to boost anymore? Or......