The true debate.. Is it fair to Engineers to change the MM?

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Originally Posted by Funktastic

modding is not the topic here

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True, modding is not the topic. Neither is steroid use in professional sports.

However, CWL was brought up as the highest standard. It was just pointed out that CWL might not deserve its place on the highest level, fair play, aspirational podium.

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Originally Posted by Ripple1972

True, modding is not the topic. Neither is steroid use in professional sports.

However, CWL was brought up as the highest standard. It was just pointed out that CWL might not deserve its place on the highest level, fair play, aspirational podium.

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Gotta agree here. Steroids and the CWL (use of mods, not the cwl itself), are bad analogies because of how bad it's looked upon since it's blatant cheating. Despite my disdain for what the mm has been reduced to, engineering is not cheating. It is my sincerest hope that Supercell has this really figured out. This has been the most polarizing, controversial issue since the infamous Dec. 2015 update. One could argue that it might be worse. And it's starting to become my fear that they'll either drag this out a bit more or they'll only be able to please one crowd. The fallout of that may be huge. So in the best interest of everyone here, I hope that whatever playstyle you prefer, whether it's engineering or maxing and everything in between, gets it's fair shot in clan wars and not completely nerfed. Fairness for all

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Originally Posted by Funktastic

modding is not the topic here

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What I'm saying is that CWL clans are idolized, while engineering clans are demonized. Both have the same win at any cost mentality, but engineers are the ones playing within the rules of the game. Seems a little backwards.

Quite simply, if engineering didn't provide such an advantage in matchmaking, would people do it? The answer in an unequivocal no. For trophies you'd have no chance at getting defenses to pick up cups and no existing war league would take you.

Therefore, yes, it is 100% fair to change matchmaking to account for engineered bases.

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Originally Posted by strandwolfza

come on, the rules of this forum prevent a lot of us from speaking what we really think about engineers and they force us to be "politically correct" but the truth is that it's hard to respect those who chose to ruin wars for others just to compensate for their lack of attacking/defending skills

in a sense, these rules are good because they allow the debate to progress, but it can't be denied that they also forbid us from speaking what we really think, and that's always a bad thing, for the truth must be told no matter what

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The forum rules never prevented me from saying anything I thought, personally, but then they aren't things I'm prone to do anyway (except swearing which I do quite a bit, but not when the audience is inappropriate, in real life as here). I don't believe all engineers do what they do to compensate for a lack of skill. Sure some do, or threads like "Crush Em Roast Em" that SirRobinDD has started lately wouldnt be so darn funny. Respect is another thing - I guess I respect a long win streak involving weaker opponents insofar as I respect anything that isn't my cup of tea (ie. it's more I am indifferent to it as what I'd personally count as a worthwhile achievement for me but can see it's a goal for some). My fun is taking on equals and getting a bit cheeky on bigger ones, but that's just me and I play it that way with likeminded others. Yes, engineering does grind my gears conceptually, especially where it involves basically beating up smaller average TH level family and casuals clans, as I see how it saps their game fun. But I've got nothing like rules or "political correctness" pressing on me in choosing to word it that way.

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Originally Posted by Ripple1972

True, modding is not the topic. Neither is steroid use in professional sports.

However, CWL was brought up as the highest standard. It was just pointed out that CWL might not deserve its place on the highest level, fair play, aspirational podium.

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I will chime in on both topics because I can do what I like while my wife is not looking. Despite the well trodden issue with a few bad apples, CWL is still undeniably a seriously impressive standard of warring. I have watched them plot, plan and execute totally clean 3 stars and also seen them fail - as you all have online. They consistently prove that they are willing to put themselves in that spotlight and many of them perform very well under pressure with close wars and a huge amount of tactical nous on display.

Secondly, whatever happens with MM every single Engineer knew that when they turned to the dark side that they would achieve unimaginable power in the universe but at the risk of having to wear a black cloak and breathe through a wet flannel. Whatever changes Supercell decide to make not one Engineer could claim that they thought defenceless bases were how Supercell intended them to play. They 100% know they are 'gaming' the MM and while I eschew their methodology I do at least see why they seek that mystical power. From their end they surely all know that If Supercell suddenly brings out the heavy roller and levels the playing field it was fun while it lasted and they should simply adapt again....and they will....If they have to...lets wait and see.

I have an engineered TH9 and nothing would please me more for it to become totally useless until I add more defense. I hope it is coming but I doubt it.

I live and war in the Asia time zone. Engineering was bad (common) here before it sprang up all over. Very few engineers have a clan full of good attackers. We beat most of them because of that despite their overwhelming advantage. Most of them cannot attack well at all.

Last war, they had a TH11 at position three on the map vs our TH9s. He attacked once against our 8.5. He got three but he didn't even attack our best, he went for the weakest!

The final score 30 to 19 in the 10 person war. We've gone to 10 person wars so the other side has fewer chances to get engineered 11s into the game.

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Originally Posted by Tomville

I don't believe all engineers do what they do to compensate for a lack of skill.

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Originally Posted by Holps

Secondly, whatever happens with MM every single Engineer knew that when they turned to the dark side that they would achieve unimaginable power in the universe but at the risk of having to wear a black cloak and breathe through a wet flannel. Whatever changes Supercell decide to make not one Engineer could claim that they thought defenceless bases were how Supercell intended them to play. They 100% know they are 'gaming' the MM and while I eschew their methodology I do at least see why they seek that mystical power. From their end they surely all know that If Supercell suddenly brings out the heavy roller and levels the playing field it was fun while it lasted and they should simply adapt again....and they will....If they have to...lets wait and see.

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agreed, specially with the bold part and as nelly said

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Originally Posted by NellyFor3

Quite simply, if engineering didn't provide such an advantage in matchmaking, would people do it? The answer in an unequivocal no

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Originally Posted by Onetoomany

What I'm saying is that CWL clans are idolized, while engineering clans are demonized. Both have the same win at any cost mentality, but engineers are the ones playing within the rules of the game. Seems a little backwards.

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It still harder to 3 star a TH11 with mods than 3 starring a TH9/10 with TH11 offense.