Who said we shall all be impoving our walls?

I have posted this in another thread about "wall cost being to expensive bladibla..." I am not here to tell who's right and who's wrong. I just wanted to start a new thread with this so we can all have a look at this village and start thinking outside of the box sometimes.............

So there you go:

It starts from one post from Pedro saying the following...

Originally Posted by PedroLee: Walls are simply irrelevant from Master III and up.


Then few hours after reading this message thinking he's MAYBE right, someone in my clan found an interesting village.

Have a look at Shiva$$$ in FRERES D'ARMES. The Clan is ranked 15 worldwide.

He is in master at high level and has no wall at all, mostly no defense building... He just have camps, lab and barracks...

His barracks are full of minions/balloons and he was yesterday around 3400 trophies.
I really like the strategy because he just did different and did not follow everyone’s path…

After seeing this I actually realized that he is not the only one.... I think it is worth thinking and talking about.
I've heard of a quest from a Sky member who achieved Cristal with a very low TH. I think this is somehow not related but quite interesting as well.

Have seen similar base/players using that strategy in the past?
Did that player achieved a similar success?


Thanks in advance for your contribution.

Cheers!

At high trophy counts, you can't win on defence. No matter how strong your base is. But the level of your walls represent how much you have looted throughout your time, and show how active you are, in a pretty manner.

;)

He and several others believed that Exp had an influence on the relative cup offers - attack and defence.

This has not been proven to be the case - some guys did some testing a while back and it looks unlikely. What the guy is doing is a TON of attacks - he's on 182 already.

To be honest i'd do it if i was in his shoes he's saved upwards of $10k on a maxed base

Wow, thats a crazy base.

To me, it looks like the defence's role gets less and less the higher you go up in trophies. SC has put their best effort to make it so that spending money constantly is the way to win over spend once to max all and then just enjoy the ride.

Sure, you need a good base to win here and there a defence, but mostly it's about attacking. As Daddy pointed out, you can save a lot of money by skipping the base and going full offence and still be able to battle out in the big leagues. Pay2Win is the name of the game.

On lower trophies on the other hand the importance of defence is much greater. Up to crystal league, you can pretty much make a defence not worth trying. That can be accomplished around 2/3 of Th9 maxed stuff. After that, you need to spend more than you can get from a place with full coffers, if the defence is well designed.

It would make no sense to make defence win over a big offence, as that would drive away those, who are willing to dish out the cash but maybe not quite as skilled in attacking. Witches were great example, hogs followed the same logic. Hogs do require some more skill than witches, but there's an army that only gemmers can afford more than few times a day. You pay, you win. The defence one can max out slowly without money spent and it's a good idea to allow a few and far between "free" attacks for everyone.

From the clan replays, ever since the hog upgrade, appears that walls have little meaning higher up. Bloons and hogs is the way to go for many and those, using the cheaper army, have to spend much more time to search a weaker target. Sure, it can be done and as you can't protect against all possible attacks, one has to decide, which attacks one tries to ward off. From the looks of it, safe bet is to protect the GoWiPe and mass dragons, as those have a real chance to fail an attack. The rest, just accept the loss.

For me, all this does is making the game pointless to stay high up in cups. I like defence. Tweaking the base, finding just the right combo, that's what I enjoy. I know for our clan's next trophy push, all I need to do is give a scary image for weaker attackers to go away and attack more often than I get steamrolled by $.

nothing feels more satisfying than one shotting packs of minions with wizard tower as they come, or catapulting 5 giants with their healer being left without things to heal. Thats just priceless. And cups.. well who cares about cups, they only represent that you play the game 24/7.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daddy

He and several others believed that Exp had an influence on the relative cup offers - attack and defence.

This has not been proven to be the case - some guys did some testing a while back and it looks unlikely. What the guy is doing is a TON of attacks - he's on 182 already.

To be honest i'd do it if i was in his shoes he's saved upwards of $10k on a maxed base

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He surely did and that is quite clever!
Other champions should be mad by now!
If you look at the current 1st player worldwide Gregsan74 (another French actually) he doesn't have maxed walls on his base either.

So bonus question for you daddy:
Did the devs and mods knew about this and is this somehow related with the Hog Rider rework?

What I mean is: The best way to solve the problem of lvl 11 walls is to kill it right? Better than to give more ressources to everyone and risking to unbalance the game...
We all remember the big mess that happened after the release of lvl11 walls... the best way to solve the problem of lvl 11 walls would be to kill it... how to kill it? rework the Hog rider to make it so strong that expensive walls would nolonger be usefull.

At the same time it pushes players to find other strategies...

Am I seing this correctly or it is a coincidence?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OJM

To me, it looks like the defence's role gets less and less the higher you go up in trophies. SC has put their best effort to make it so that spending money constantly is the way to win over spend once to max all and then just enjoy the ride.

Sure, you need a good base to win here and there a defence, but mostly it's about attacking. As Daddy pointed out, you can save a lot of money by skipping the base and going full offence and still be able to battle out in the big leagues. Pay2Win is the name of the game.

On lower trophies on the other hand the importance of defence is much greater. Up to crystal league, you can pretty much make a defence not worth trying. That can be accomplished around 2/3 of Th9 maxed stuff. After that, you need to spend more than you can get from a place with full coffers, if the defence is well designed.

It would make no sense to make defence win over a big offence, as that would drive away those, who are willing to dish out the cash but maybe not quite as skilled in attacking. Witches were great example, hogs followed the same logic. Hogs do require some more skill than witches, but there's an army that only gemmers can afford more than few times a day. You pay, you win. The defence one can max out slowly without money spent and it's a good idea to allow a few and far between "free" attacks for everyone.

From the clan replays, ever since the hog upgrade, appears that walls have little meaning higher up. Bloons and hogs is the way to go for many and those, using the cheaper army, have to spend much more time to search a weaker target. Sure, it can be done and as you can't protect against all possible attacks, one has to decide, which attacks one tries to ward off. From the looks of it, safe bet is to protect the GoWiPe and mass dragons, as those have a real chance to fail an attack. The rest, just accept the loss.

For me, all this does is making the game pointless to stay high up in cups. I like defence. Tweaking the base, finding just the right combo, that's what I enjoy. I know for our clan's next trophy push, all I need to do is give a scary image for weaker attackers to go away and attack more often than I get steamrolled by $.

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Defnese is something priceless.. I really enjoy to design my base as well. I guess the fun from cupping is elsewhere...

You can't win on defense at high trophy counts, but you can severely damage someones ability to get three stars. He is probably online 24/7 and doesn't really get attacked that often, then it doesnt matter what walls or defenses he got.

However, the difference is that once he gets attacked he WILL lose 40 trophies because of no defenses, while a fully maxed will get 1-2 starred and lose maybe 25 instead. 15 at that count is much.

I think that's a good question and I can absolutely see your train of thought.

I think the current situation where the hogs are slightly over powered (arguable) is an un-intended consequence for SC, they try to calibrate the troops to make them challenging to learn in order to use them well, this is done using synthetic game play - essentially computers playing against themselves 10's of thousands of times. They also conduct user testing amongst themselves, pretty much every SC person I know all the way up to their CEO and Chairman plays clash privately.

Anyway as soon as a new troop or a changed is released then quirks are found by real people - usually the hardcore players who are most sensitive to changes as they use the troops so much, and this is what happened here and also with the Witch.

It is correct to presume that balance is important to SC and if the game becomes unbalanced then it will be fixed in future updates, if it's not then it won't.

Cheers
D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jenche

He surely did and that is quite clever!
Other champions should be mad by now!
If you look at the current 1st player worldwide Gregsan74 (another French actually) he doesn't have maxed walls on his base either.

So bonus question for you daddy:
Did the devs and mods knew about this and is this somehow related with the Hog Rider rework?

What I mean is: The best way to solve the problem of lvl 11 walls is to kill it right? Better than to give more ressources to everyone and risking to unbalance the game...
We all remember the big mess that happened after the release of lvl11 walls... the best way to solve the problem of lvl 11 walls would be to kill it... how to kill it? rework the Hog rider to make it so strong that expensive walls would nolonger be usefull.

At the same time it pushes players to find other strategies...

Am I seing this correctly or it is a coincidence?

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I bet the top players sit there rubbing there hand together when coming across this to attack.

I'm currently at 2800+ trophies and defense still applies to my trophy count, no one can say defense is completely useless and walls are apart of that, walls slowing down troops by even a few seconds can save your tush. If you checked the high ranked people they even won a few defenses as well, but to me, I think they just believe defense isn't important just as some of you are saying which is why they don't win as much because they don't put effort into the design or something of the sort, many people see they have high trophy count so people copy them, but it doesn't work like that.

Even around crystal and masters, many people have the max level for the troops that they use and same for spells, yet you can win defense too can't you? So when the high tankers have max or also maxed bases, I believe it should be easier mainly because their buildings and walls have that much more hp than our bases do which would slow down the enemy troops.
currently there are only 5 troops that walls don't apply to and they are:
1) drags
2) hog riders
3) minions
4)balloons
5) healers

But all flying units are easier to handle since you have xbows, air defense, archers, wizards, inferno tower, and traps
so I say the only troops who has the most advantage are the hog riders who are:
1) tanky
2) big damage unlike giants
3) jumps over walls without spell
4) have a group of about 48+

but there are ways to beat every troops set up, just depends on how you set up your place, mainly because the hogs were just buffed up, there aren't many ways people know how to beat them yet. Defense is one of the biggest part of this game, have your army set up never lost before or something? Ofc they have atleast once, there is just no perfect base or else the game would be pointless.

walls and base design is not pointless at all, just have fun with designing your base and find one that you like.
but here is a big tip for you all:
If you all haven't noticed, the higher up or lower you go, the attack style/troop set up is somewhat similar with in that range. For now, all I used to see was a mishmash of troops still around crystal, but the higher I went, people started to using more similar troops because "the troop is op" so it is easier to win with. Pay attention to what troops you are attacked by most often and build your base that will be strong against that certain type of set up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jenche

I have posted this in another thread about "wall cost being to expensive bladibla..." I am not here to tell who's right and who's wrong. I just wanted to start a new thread with this so we can all have a look at this village and start thinking outside of the box sometimes.............

So there you go:

It starts from one post from Pedro saying the following...

Originally Posted by PedroLee: Walls are simply irrelevant from Master III and up.


Then few hours after reading this message thinking he's MAYBE right, someone in my clan found an interesting village.

Have a look at Shiva$$$ in FRERES D'ARMES. The Clan is ranked 15 worldwide.

He is in master at high level and has no wall at all, mostly no defense building... He just have camps, lab and barracks...

His barracks are full of minions/balloons and he was yesterday around 3400 trophies.
I really like the strategy because he just did different and did not follow everyone’s path…

After seeing this I actually realized that he is not the only one.... I think it is worth thinking and talking about.
I've heard of a quest from a Sky member who achieved Cristal with a very low TH. I think this is somehow not related but quite interesting as well.

Have seen similar base/players using that strategy in the past?
Did that player achieved a similar success?


Thanks in advance for your contribution.

Cheers!

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Offense > Defense. You don't need any defense to get to champion.