bringing a partial perma/max lineup to war (kids dont try this at home)

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Originally Posted by CasimirEffect

Twisting my language to suite your intent: strawman.

This entire statement is wildly out of bounds and qualifies as the mudslinging I just referred to. I take it CWL is D3 and the engineers play on some grander stage? Social media and the vast majority of the community says otherwise.

I believe you, and many others, are confusing winning with competition. Chess is a game that has withstood the test of time because the players engage in a battle of wits/skill which begins at parity. Would chess still exist if one player was allowed to play with checkers while the other played with chess pieces? Another rhetorical question.

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Don't know if I've mentioned it yet but CWL is friendly war something similar but different than CW. In friendly war maxing is the superior strategy and engineers are at the disadvantage I admit. In clan war imo maxing is an inferior strategy to others.

edit: to come back to what you said about chess vs checkers in both games each side has exactly the same. COC has many more variables than both and would make it near impossible to get a perfectly even match. I do believe skill is involved in COC in attacking and base design. However many neglect to realize that it is a strategy game where strategy with a strategy game ,like COC, comes the strategy in how to make a clan have the best outcome in CW.
As far as winning and competition I like both but am not going to play a lower strategy to get better competition. Others may but not me.

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Originally Posted by CasimirEffect

Twisting my language to suite your intent: strawman.

This entire statement is wildly out of bounds and qualifies as the mudslinging I just referred to. I take it CWL is D3 and the engineers play on some grander stage? Social media and the vast majority of the community says otherwise.

I believe you, and many others, are confusing winning with competition. Chess is a game that has withstood the test of time because the players engage in a battle of wits/skill which begins at parity. Would chess still exist if one player was allowed to play with checkers while the other played with chess pieces? Another rhetorical question.

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nope, chess is pure.
sc sure isnt!

sc's system is going to give someone the short end of the stick. i think it always has, and just keeps getting more exaggerated.
see the original post here!

i believe part of winning and having a good time and all that is making sure you are not getting beat by that stick.
make the other guy get whacked.

i know the algo math is messed up. but we refused to be beat by it, and went down our path.
others are waiting on a fix i believe.
maybe my balanced 11 will be relevant again! but if not, keep on truckin i say.

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Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit

Don't know if I've mentioned it yet but CWL is friendly war something similar but different than CW. In friendly war maxing is the superior strategy and engineers are at the disadvantage I admit. In clan war imo maxing is an inferior strategy to others.

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You missed the edited bit:

What you suggest is like saying that street ball in Brooklyn is more reputable than what people pay to watch on television and in stadiums for reference - Yeah, if I have a knife and foul you, you probably aren't going to call it like the refs do in the big leagues... So does having the knife make the game competitive, does it make it better, does it make it more fun for everyone? If I use it will people come back to play with me? Just plain absurd... Does your argument hold up when it ties back to reality? No it does not.

What does this mean for the game you enjoy? Think about it...

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Originally Posted by jobob145

i believe part of winning and having a good time and all that is making sure you are not getting beat by that stick.

maybe my balanced 11 will be relevant again! but if not, keep on truckin i say.

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Winning != Having a good time. When I play Overwatch, I lose quite a bit because I am not very good but I have a good time because I am playing with friends and when we lose it is because the group we are playing against is better than us or because my counterpart is better than me. Here "better" implies objectively more skilled, knowledgeable, and better teamwork. In fact, many share this experience. Again in a game that is not as "pure" or older as chess parity still exists to start any match.

So if competition is in fact a core design philosophy of Clash of Clans as SC states, I suspect the update will make HUGE waves in this regard.

My max 11 is plenty relevant. I can't speak to what a balanced one looks like though - heroes and walls are very important.

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Originally Posted by CasimirEffect

You missed the edited bit:

What you suggest is like saying that street ball in Brooklyn is more reputable than what people pay to watch on television and in stadiums for reference - Yeah, if I have a knife and foul you, you probably aren't going to call it like the refs do in the big leagues... So does having the knife make the game competitive, does it make it better, does it make it more fun for everyone? If I use it will people come back to play with me? Just plain absurd... Does your argument hold up when it ties back to reality? No it does not.

What does this mean for the game you enjoy? Think about it...

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More like football and soccer. Similar in both are sports, played on a field and with a ball. Different in that they are different sports.
I'm not trying to fight you on this but you just see things differently than me and I was just pointing them out to you but not everyone can see both sides. So I will just move on.

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Originally Posted by CasimirEffect

Winning != Having a good time. When I play Overwatch, I lose quite a bit because I am not very good but I have a good time because I am playing with friends and when we lose it is because the group we are playing against is better than us or because my counterpart is better than me. Here "better" implies objectively more skilled, knowledgeable, and better teamwork. In fact, many share this experience. Again in a game that is not as "pure" or older as chess parity still exists to start any match.

So if competition is in fact a core design philosophy of Clash of Clans as SC states, I suspect the update will make HUGE waves in this regard.

My max 11 is plenty relevant. I can't speak to what a balanced one looks like though - heroes and walls are very important.

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balanced i mean is not engineered. it would probably be maxed now, if last fall hadn't happened and miners died, and i stopped building anything

did you work through it?
curious as to what your 3* war rate is. i'm guessing we might have a different idea of fun in that regard.
2* = fail to me, but to each their own of course.

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Originally Posted by jobob145

balanced i mean is not engineered. it would probably be maxed now, if last fall hadn't happened and miners died, and i stopped building anything

did you work through it?
curious as to what your 3* war rate is. i'm guessing we might have a different idea of fun in that regard.
2* = fail to me, but to each their own of course.

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If stopped playing because mass miners got the axe then yes we do... miners never died they simply received a niche role fyi. Also FYI, general consensus among elite attackers in mixed clans is that less than 80% 2 star on max 11s is a fail. If you expect to triple 11s every war with some unbalanced mass troop combination, then the game is probably not much fun right now. For most it is more fun at TH11 than it has been since release last December.

Thanks for trying to qualify, you clearly didn't bother to do your research before going down this road. 3 star hit rate for 11v10 is well above CWL standard set at 80%, I'd venture to say upwards of 95% with a good scout and close to 90% on fresh hits. 3 star hit rate 11v11 is somewhere around 25-30% in war when I get the opportunity to hit max 11s, higher for non-max. My multi hit rate in legend is much closer to 40-50% vs max 11s depending on which troops I have cooked and whether my timing is on point. I am highly knowledgeable with the skill to back it up, and hopefully when I inevitably get the troll responses I have a few friends on the forums that will back me up ;)

The issue player's like myself and other have with engineering, aside from the joker's claiming that two clans playing the same game is analogous to playing different sports while suggesting lack of perspective, is watching less skilled player's be rewarded for exploiting weaknesses in an overly accommodating system. The same player's preaching about mass dip attack strategies requiring skill and being competitive is water over the bridge.

I'll check out and back in when someone offers an alternative perspective of merit.

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Originally Posted by CasimirEffect

If stopped playing because mass miners got the axe then yes we do... miners never died they simply received a niche role fyi. Also FYI, general consensus among elite attackers in mixed clans is that less than 80% 2 star on max 11s is a fail. If you expect to triple 11s every war with some unbalanced mass troop combination, then the game is probably not much fun right now. For most it is more fun at TH11 than it has been since release last December.

Thanks for trying to qualify, you clearly didn't bother to do your research before going down this road. 3 star hit rate for 11v10 is well above CWL standard set at 80%, I'd venture to say upwards of 95% with a good scout and close to 90% on fresh hits. 3 star hit rate 11v11 is somewhere around 25-30% in war when I get the opportunity to hit max 11s, higher for non-max. My multi hit rate in legend is much closer to 40-50% vs max 11s depending on which troops I have cooked and whether my timing is on point. I am highly knowledgeable with the skill to back it up, and hopefully when I inevitably get the troll responses I have a few friends on the forums that will back me up ;)

The issue player's like myself and other have with engineering, aside from the joker's claiming that two clans playing the same game is analogous to playing different sports while suggesting lack of perspective, is watching less skilled player's be rewarded for exploiting weaknesses in an overly accommodating system. The same player's preaching about mass dip attack strategies requiring skill and being competitive is water over the bridge.

I'll check out and back in when someone offers an alternative perspective of merit.

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i'm saying "3 star hit rate 11v11 is somewhere around 25-30% in war" to me is not fun. its probably getting closer but..
i think max offense should get way more of a chance at success.
hence i would claim my (would be) max th11 in war is not relevant.
(and i'm guessing it is that high because of the recent witch and loon buff?)

before it was... 5% ? i dunno, just totally made that up, but there are plenty of old posts around here from nov / dec about max vs max wars with 0% 3*

not sure where all the other numbers and comments came from but.. ok, thanks.

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Originally Posted by jobob145

i'm saying "3 star hit rate 11v11 is somewhere around 25-30% in war" to me is not fun. its probably getting closer but..
i think max offense should get way more of a chance at success.
hence i would claim my (would be) max th11 in war is not relevant.
(and i'm guessing it is that high because of the recent witch and loon buff?)

before it was... 5% ? i dunno, just totally made that up, but there are plenty of old posts around here from nov / dec about max vs max wars with 0% 3*

not sure where all the other numbers and comments came from but.. ok, thanks.

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Sorry man, I took the question the wrong way while responding to Rabbit-troll in a 2 for 1 message.

TH11 was tough but 11v11 triples were certainly higher than 5% for our group prior to the update. It was all about the queen walk back then, but you could also get away with split heroes and lalo on the right bases. Now there are a few options both ground and air with lalo variants being the most viable 3 star strategy with the highest opportunity for a 1-star which seems fair.

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Originally Posted by CasimirEffect

Sorry man, I took the question the wrong way while responding to Rabbit-troll in a 2 for 1 message.

TH11 was tough but 11v11 triples were certainly higher than 5% for our group prior to the update. It was all about the queen walk back then, but you could also get away with split heroes and lalo on the right bases. Now there are a few options both ground and air with lalo variants being the most viable 3 star strategy with the highest opportunity for a 1-star which seems fair.

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see now this is exactly what i mean about getting folks to agree with whats fair.
check out the "whats eagle and infernos" worth thread. does anyone really agree?

3* percent on a max base is another widly debated / often disagreed topic.
i say if we want war weight equality with offense and defense, then their effects on gameplay should be equal

max offense attack vs max defense should yield 50% average success (3*)
skill pushes you up or down. neither side has a statistical advantage.

if this was true my alt would be alot less advanced.