Engineering?

I don't know if i missed something, but there's a noticeable lack of engineering thread. is the discussion of engineering solution prohibited?

In any case, i think the solution is the game engine should be able to detect and scale engineering value itself through game calculations, PER CLAN.

For example:

player A of clan Z has disparity of level 11 TH, level 3 bowlers, and absent eagle and inferno = engineering value of X
player B of clan Z has disparity of level 10 TH, level 5 valks, and absent infernos, 1 xbow, and 1 cannon = engineering value of Y


total engineering value (such as X and Y) in clan Z = E

then the war search should match 2 clans with equal E points. it would pit engineering clans against engineering clans of the same engineering value. Fair clans obviously would have 0 or few E points and therefore would match against equal fair clans

This way, it doesn't forbid players from "playing how they want" and in the same time keeps the game fair.
What do you think?

♥♥♥♥...... did you just look on the main page? Engineering is ALMOST as bad as WHEN IS THE UPDATE coming threads

Yep, really frustrated with these engineers now, Just had 50v50 war with 16 defenseless accounts...Meh! :facepalm:

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Originally Posted by sheedy17

♥♥♥♥...... did you just look on the main page? Engineering is ALMOST as bad as WHEN IS THE UPDATE coming threads

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With the odd 'my clan has been hacked' thread dotted in between when the leader promoted someone else to leader....

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Originally Posted by akhbh

Yep, really frustrated with these engineers now, Just had 50v50 war with 16 defenseless accounts...Meh! :facepalm:

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That's interesting; what is your TH distribution?

Oh and if you have been doing 50v wars for a while then you should know that it provides the greatest variability in matchups...

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Originally Posted by BlindHaze

With the odd 'my clan has been hacked' thread dotted in between when the leader promoted someone else to leader....

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as hilarious as it is, it's a major pain for them. but still, hilarious.

It isn't engineers,it is supercell who doesn't do anything about engineering. I have heard so many good ideas on this forum how to solve the problem. And it is an easy fix too. I think , if there isn't way for SC to make money, they just don't care.

Most of the engineering threads are in the clan wars subforum. Where they belong.

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Originally Posted by Paulana0303

It isn't engineers,it is supercell who doesn't do anything about engineering. I have heard so many good ideas on this forum how to solve the problem. And it is an easy fix too. I think , if there isn't way for SC to make money, they just don't care.

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An easy fix is never present on a complicated issue. Engineering involves the manipulation of certain variables. If we're simply gonna rehash the same old arguments like "TH v TH matchups" or "make a TH10's minimum weight that of a TH9 regardless of defense upgrades" then we're simply repeating that these aren't good solutions in the long run.

Furthermore, SC has already stated months ago that they're doing something about it. They've already introduced changes to the MM system(i.e. the .5 nerf). The problem is they can't do an all out rework if they don't even know if it works at all in the actual game, it's too big of a risk. SC already solved modding which has plagued the game for a lot of time, what makes you think that a smaller problem like engineering would go unchecked.

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Originally Posted by Paulana0303

It isn't engineers,it is supercell who doesn't do anything about engineering. I have heard so many good ideas on this forum how to solve the problem. And it is an easy fix too. I think , if there isn't way for SC to make money, they just don't care.

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Unless you have a background in coding, I don't think your qualified to speak on what is and isn't an easy fix to engineering. And if you don't think engineering is driving away more casual players and hurting their bottom dollar, then I direct you to all the new forum members that created accounts to complain about it. These people very much represent a larger set of unhappy players, some of which undoubtedly spent money once upon a time

Op, you did miss something. The clan war subforum is filled with engineering discussions and there's usually a few going on in general as well. I'm sure with a very small amount of looking you can find a thread that fits what you want to discuss

Is it truely worth attacking twice in war(2 days) meaning 1/day ..but.. getting harmed(suffered) many times/day (some time/many times get no shild after raided)..?

... its quetion for engineerer
...
...
#sorry for my bad english

The guy creating all the new accounts and complaint threads got tired.

I like how all you "SC employees " get upset as soon as someone says a bad word about your beloved SC. If I tell truth, that is something what bothers them the most.

The OP is just looked at the first three things and assumed that it's not mostly a bunch of engineering threads.

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Originally Posted by thequeen1279

Is it truely worth attacking twice in war(2 days) meaning 1/day ..but.. getting harmed(suffered) many times/day (some time/many times get no shild after raided)..?

... its quetion for engineerer
...
...
#sorry for my bad english

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Most engineering bases do get shield when raided, a few times they even win the raid. I think you are only referring to one particular engineered base which is the defenseless with only a single level 1 canon. I did create one of those for a short while, it was only fun at first, at least for me.

Modding is still happening. Few days ago SC did find some modders in CWL. We also just faced a modding clan. We followed a guy from opponents clan and he went to clan whit all their burrners. I am not saying that SC isn't doing god job trying to fight modding, I am just saying it is still present.
Engineering on other hand, I don't think they are even trying. Months have past since they said that they are doing something about it. I don't see any changes.
Engineers are still getting favorable clan wars matchups. I don't care if they choose to play game that way. It isn't their fault . It is SC fault. It is SC who is giving them favorable matchups.
Why don't we start at the point where every th10 is weighed as maxed th9,and then go from there? Why not make it where actuall skills are winning?
Don't try to make things more complicated than they are.

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Originally Posted by thequeen1279

Is it truely worth attacking twice in war(2 days) meaning 1/day ..but.. getting harmed(suffered) many times/day (some time/many times get no shild after raided)..?

... its quetion for engineerer
...
...
#sorry for my bad english

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Most that i see run farming bots.

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Originally Posted by Omes

I don't know if i missed something, but there's a noticeable lack of engineering thread. is the discussion of engineering solution prohibited?

In any case, i think the solution is the game engine should be able to detect and scale engineering value itself through game calculations, PER CLAN.

For example:

player A of clan Z has disparity of level 11 TH, level 3 bowlers, and absent eagle and inferno = engineering value of X
player B of clan Z has disparity of level 10 TH, level 5 valks, and absent infernos, 1 xbow, and 1 cannon = engineering value of Y


total engineering value (such as X and Y) in clan Z = E

then the war search should match 2 clans with equal E points. it would pit engineering clans against engineering clans of the same engineering value. Fair clans obviously would have 0 or few E points and therefore would match against equal fair clans

This way, it doesn't forbid players from "playing how they want" and in the same time keeps the game fair.
What do you think?

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The only thing you missed was the clan war subforum where all the same things have been said AND are currently being discussed

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Originally Posted by Zegaloft

An easy fix is never present on a complicated issue. Engineering involves the manipulation of certain variables. If we're simply gonna rehash the same old arguments like "TH v TH matchups" or "make a TH10's minimum weight that of a TH9 regardless of defense upgrades" then we're simply repeating that these aren't good solutions in the long run.

Furthermore, SC has already stated months ago that they're doing something about it. They've already introduced changes to the MM system(i.e. the .5 nerf). The problem is they can't do an all out rework if they don't even know if it works at all in the actual game, it's too big of a risk. SC already solved modding which has plagued the game for a lot of time, what makes you think that a smaller problem like engineering would go unchecked.

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Right, because .5's were clearly the issue. More like the MM just needed a small nudge to correct that issue and they could validate their statement of working on the issue. Which do you think manipulates the MM more, a .5 or a defenseless 11 with 45/45/20 heroes and the 1 troop combo maxed offense?

I do agree with your second paragraph, and there is no real solution to dealing with defenseless accounts in war with out making big game changes. Like adding incentive to not be defenseless (if you are 3 starred by a town hall 2 levels lower then you they get a bonus star type thing). Or, giving everybody a standard war base in accordance with your current town hall level that comes with maxed everything to ensure no advantage (other then player skill) exists. There is just to much variations in the game to account for. If they got rid of the extremes they might have a better chance at solving the issue.

Bottom line, with out SC stepping in and changing the way the game works (like they did with town hall sniping) or radical changes to the game, Engineering is going nowhere and will only continue to get worse. You can already see it happening when you match clans that have a defenseless 10 or something with 10/10 heroes and ♥♥♥♥ troops. You might think he is nothing to shake a stick out now, but in 4 months he will be just another defenseless account upsetting the apple cart.

There are a lot of good ideas and technical talk in the clan wars sub forum if you are really interested OP. Some very good (non engineer vs maxxer) discussions about fixed and what works and what doesn't.

EDIT: Even the everybody gets a maxed town hall to war with will eventually fail. Players will congregate into elite attack clans and average to poor attack clans. Then you are still doomed on prep day if you happen to match an elite attacker clan. They would then need to further modify the game to implement clan leagues levels (like multiplayer....crystal, masters, champs) to filter the elite attacker clans into higher leagues to face off against each other and have lower leagues for the more casual/below average attackers to battle it out.

I've come to the conclusion that engineering is going to be incredibly hard to fix now. Every solution I come up with needed to be implemented from the get go and I'm not sure how they can make retroactive changes without just making some grandfather clause for the bases that already exist.

My best Idea so far, which again would have needed to be implemented at the start of the game; Basically, it would be the same system that their sister game, Boom Beach, uses. In BB, you can't upgrade your headquaters(what would be the town hall in CoC) until you reach a certain XP level. I mean the XP system is already there in CoC and has absolutely no purpose, why not use it? Something like you have to reach lvl 100 to upgrade to TH10 or something. In order to make this work you'd have to make the only way to get XP through base upgrades, preferably either only through defensive upgrades or at least make defensive upgrades give much more XP to encourage people to build and upgrade defenses.

But again, what would you do with people who are already totally defenseless TH11's? Ban them? Reset them to TH3? Grandfather clause them in? Only solution I could see would be some kind of war ban until they reach a certain level/weight, but that may just cause another mass exodus from the game and it's clear CoC is basically treading water at the moment anyways so I'd hate to see even more people leave.

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Originally Posted by juvi1624

I've come to the conclusion that engineering is going to be incredibly hard to fix now. Every solution I come up with needed to be implemented from the get go and I'm not sure how they can make retroactive changes without just making some grandfather clause for the bases that already exist.

My best Idea so far, which again would have needed to be implemented at the start of the game; Basically, it would be the same system that their sister game, Boom Beach, uses. In BB, you can't upgrade your headquaters(what would be the town hall in CoC) until you reach a certain XP level. I mean the XP system is already there in CoC and has absolutely no purpose, why not use it? Something like you have to reach lvl 100 to upgrade to TH10 or something. In order to make this work you'd have to make the only way to get XP through base upgrades, preferably either only through defensive upgrades or at least make defensive upgrades give much more XP to encourage people to build and upgrade defenses.

But again, what would you do with people who are already totally defenseless TH11's? Ban them? Reset them to TH3? Grandfather clause them in? Only solution I could see would be some kind of war ban until they reach a certain level/weight, but that may just cause another mass exodus from the game and it's clear CoC is basically treading water at the moment anyways so I'd hate to see even more people leave.

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no thats not the only solution, there exists solutions already described in this subforum, one on the first page this very day.

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Originally Posted by Omes

I don't know if i missed something, but there's a noticeable lack of engineering thread. is the discussion of engineering solution prohibited?

In any case, i think the solution is the game engine should be able to detect and scale engineering value itself through game calculations, PER CLAN.

For example:

player A of clan Z has disparity of level 11 TH, level 3 bowlers, and absent eagle and inferno = engineering value of X
player B of clan Z has disparity of level 10 TH, level 5 valks, and absent infernos, 1 xbow, and 1 cannon = engineering value of Y


total engineering value (such as X and Y) in clan Z = E

then the war search should match 2 clans with equal E points. it would pit engineering clans against engineering clans of the same engineering value. Fair clans obviously would have 0 or few E points and therefore would match against equal fair clans

This way, it doesn't forbid players from "playing how they want" and in the same time keeps the game fair.
What do you think?

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Indeed thats a good suggestion. Now most of clans are engineered to some degree. Above point is sufficient to match each clan with equal level of engineering clan. That might create fairplay ground for both equal clans where one can test himself against equal level clan. Atleast it will withdraw heavy advantage or disadvantage things.
I appreciate OPs difference point theory. Nice thought.

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Originally Posted by PinoyIto

Most engineering bases do get shield when raided, a few times they even win the raid. I think you are only referring to one particular engineered base which is the defenseless with only a single level 1 canon. I did create one of those for a short while, it was only fun at first, at least for me.

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..
No...thats not true..
Yah..each time i found engineered acct in multiplayers battle i dont use all troop ..just steal their loot(less then 70 space army) then.. end game...

Am i been a cruel player by give them no shild..

#1st : sorry for my bad english
2nd : tried to explain "engineering=hurt your self" ...
3rd : i dont like them..but i dont againts them

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Originally Posted by CosmicCharlie

Most that i see run farming bots.

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Hmb...do you mean using 3rd party software..its really againts the game rules...
Or ...do you mean hurt your self to keep running game hours after hours just to keep survive...

#try to relaize it bro...engineering=destroy your self..

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Originally Posted by juvi1624

I've come to the conclusion that engineering is going to be incredibly hard to fix now. Every solution I come up with needed to be implemented from the get go and I'm not sure how they can make retroactive changes without just making some grandfather clause for the bases that already exist.

My best Idea so far, which again would have needed to be implemented at the start of the game; Basically, it would be the same system that their sister game, Boom Beach, uses. In BB, you can't upgrade your headquaters(what would be the town hall in CoC) until you reach a certain XP level. I mean the XP system is already there in CoC and has absolutely no purpose, why not use it? Something like you have to reach lvl 100 to upgrade to TH10 or something. In order to make this work you'd have to make the only way to get XP through base upgrades, preferably either only through defensive upgrades or at least make defensive upgrades give much more XP to encourage people to build and upgrade defenses.

But again, what would you do with people who are already totally defenseless TH11's? Ban them? Reset them to TH3? Grandfather clause them in? Only solution I could see would be some kind of war ban until they reach a certain level/weight, but that may just cause another mass exodus from the game and it's clear CoC is basically treading water at the moment anyways so I'd hate to see even more people leave.

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Meh, not hard for that defenseless th 11 to become viable again. Defense builds much quicker than offense does in this game, you know the one lab vs 5 builders. But i think supercell has let the problem go on for too long, and players/clans are just going to opt out of war.

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Originally Posted by Vikingchief

no thats not the only solution, there exists solutions already described in this subforum, one on the first page this very day.

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Where did I say that's the only solution? All I said is that's my best solution I've come up with so far.

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Originally Posted by juvi1624

Where did I say that's the only solution? All I said is that's my best solution I've come up with so far.

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Hi, when someone say the only solution I can see, it may mean they thinks its the only solution but knowing they have boumded awareness add "i can see" in case there are other solutuons. People use it often when they believe a solution as the only viable alternative, yet have misgivings relating to iether its effectivness or potential side effekts. It of course can also mean that you are saying, I can see only one solution, please guys help me to see others. It didnt seam like you were using it in this content. Languages is often complex and phrases and words have multiple definitions and meanings.

if you meant it in the third sense, then it then creates a problem when someone says, the only solution I can see is....to find a response they will not be met with a non salient reply like yours.

If someone responds, "their are many other solutions", then you will respond "i never said there werent". If someone responded, i have a solution, you will respond "i didnt ask if you did". While this is all technically true, i'm not sure the value in saying it.

the value of my post was to inform you that many solutions exist, and to give you information where to find them. Start by going through the clanwars subforum to familiarise yourself with the solutions their are 2 decent solutions already put forward. If you want to of course. I'm just assuming you want to know more, but will admit in advance you never said you do.

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Originally Posted by juvi1624

I've come to the conclusion that engineering is going to be incredibly hard to fix now. Every solution I come up with needed to be implemented from the get go and I'm not sure how they can make retroactive changes without just making some grandfather clause for the bases that already exist.

My best Idea so far, which again would have needed to be implemented at the start of the game

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This is something everyone that complains about MM should be aware of. We're laser-focused on clan wars, which were added what, two freaking years after the introduction of the game. The persistent war forum blind spot is that this is farming/sandbox tower defense game with a communal war aspect awkwardly tacked on, any suggestion (such as requirements before upgrading TH) which negatively affects a casual, nonwarring guy in any way, will not be entertained by SC. Hopefully SC will improve matchmaking somehow, but they've got larger concerns than we do and a tiny team. Whatever they choose to do will likely have no resemblance to anything we suggest.

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Originally Posted by juvi1624

Where did I say that's the only solution? All I said is that's my best solution I've come up with so far.

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There are a lot of suggested solutions, many are more sophisticated and better. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and say SC will likely ignore them all.

Vent as you like, argue for what you want, but understand this is a user forum. Maybe (MAYBE) someone from SC will see your post but don't count on it.

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

There are a lot of suggested solutions, many are more sophisticated and better. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and say SC will likely ignore them all.

Vent as you like, argue for what you want, but understand this is a user forum. Maybe (MAYBE) someone from SC will see your post but don't count on it.

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I agree with u...

Just my opinion : what about killing engineer in game not in forum...

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Originally Posted by Vikingchief

Hi, when someone say the only solution I can see, it may mean they thinks its the only solution but knowing they have boumded awareness add "i can see" in case there are other solutuons. People use it often when they believe a solution as the only viable alternative, yet have misgivings relating to iether its effectivness or potential side effekts. It of course can also mean that you are saying, I can see only one solution, please guys help me to see others. It didnt seam like you were using it in this content. Languages is often complex and phrases and words have multiple definitions and meanings.

if you meant it in the third sense, then it then creates a problem when someone says, the only solution I can see is....to find a response they will not be met with a non salient reply like yours.

If someone responds, "their are many other solutions", then you will respond "i never said there werent". If someone responded, i have a solution, you will respond "i didnt ask if you did". While this is all technically true, i'm not sure the value in saying it.

the value of my post was to inform you that many solutions exist, and to give you information where to find them. Start by going through the clanwars subforum to familiarise yourself with the solutions their are 2 decent solutions already put forward. If you want to of course. I'm just assuming you want to know more, but will admit in advance you never said you do.

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Reading that made my brain hurt.lol But yeah I think you misunderstood what I meant. I, in fact, even had to reread my own original post multiple times before I could even figure out why you kept saying I said "the only solution I can see" and finally I realized you keyed in on one phrase in the final paragraph and took it completely out of context(which leads me to believe you may have simply skimmed my op? no offense if you did, I know I can get wordy when I'm typing). I was meaning that was the only solution I could see to the major flaw in my own suggested solution to engineering(borrowing from boom beach, the xp lvl based hq/th level restriction).

Anyway, yes I'm sure there are many other solutions, I have read dozens, if not hundreds of them on here. But, again, most of them have the same major flaw as mine, they needed to be implemented from day 1. Now they are going to have to fix it via the matchmaking algorithm, which I'm sure is no easy task to code, and hopefully it doesn't cause 2 day war searches that we're already hearing about.

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Originally Posted by juvi1624

Reading that made my brain hurt.lol But yeah I think you misunderstood what I meant. I, in fact, even had to reread my own original post multiple times before I could even figure out why you kept saying I said "the only solution I can see" and finally I realized you keyed in on one phrase in the final paragraph and took it completely out of context(which leads me to believe you may have simply skimmed my op? no offense if you did, I know I can get wordy when I'm typing). I was meaning that was the only solution I could see to the major flaw in my own suggested solution to engineering(borrowing from boom beach, the xp lvl based hq/th level restriction).

Anyway, yes I'm sure there are many other solutions, I have read dozens, if not hundreds of them on here. But, again, most of them have the same major flaw as mine, they needed to be implemented from day 1. Now they are going to have to fix it via the matchmaking algorithm, which I'm sure is no easy task to code, and hopefully it doesn't cause 2 day war searches that we're already hearing about.

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yes I take your point the main purpose of your post was a restrictive system to ensure certain buildings are built before upgrading. i think the matchmaker fix is much better as it allows freedom while ensuring fair wars, but I agree war search times will need to be increased, allthough the same argument could be made if you want fair matchups within townhall levels within your proposed change, so I dont think its a valid counter argument as it applies to both systems.