offense is op at th9 and below, and an attack strategy we are using

Great, nerf OP 3-3 heroes. War is totally unfair.

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Originally Posted by Humbob

two other things, obviously and this isn't a controversial statement, the average engineer is better than an average player, engineering at least shows you care, caring will at least get you somewhere.

and second, the idea that this magical group of, somehow, morally superior players (in this thread the CWL) exists that is overwhelmingly better than everybody else floating around in clash is still silly, always has been. Don't kid yourselves, as much closet modding as possible occurs in the CWL - thats the nature of the beast, its an organization set up to promote a couple yt channels and glorify its participants as much as possible, and somebody somewhere still thinks nobody will mod for that glory because magically these players are all supreme moral beings?

Its a game and people like to win, thats why they engineered. A very, very few even got it right before supercell made defense the be all end all.

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While I wouldn't disagree with any of the above, I do think it's necessary to add some balance here!

Firstly, your average player is probably your average casual single account player, the majority. Many (but not all) engineers run multiple accounts, and thus by experience alone, are likely to have more developed skill sets.
By definition, engineers progress their bases with the intention of preying upon relatively weaker opposition. Their goal is not to match bases with equal overall strength. Is dipping a skill?

Secondly, regarding the CWL, as seen recently with one of the clans being disqualified in season 2, the threat of closet modding is still apparent, for the reasons you describe. Without robust internal available checks, it's almost impossible for CWL Clan leaders, and CWL Admins to police themselves with 100% integrity!

As an experienced forum contributor however, I'm sure you know, that the historic murky waters that existed within the realms of TWC v FPC v Engineers was all encompassing.

Engineers wanted to win at all costs, and for the "glory", the poison that is modding, spread throughout all areas of the game!
As for "supreme moral beings", the forum has seen rather a lot of that too.
Personally, I can remember a very successful engineer arguing for months that offensive weight was included within your gold storage aproximations of defensive weight. Nothing I could say would ever change his mind, and he had a fantastic green war log to back up his 'fountain of knowledge'. That fountain seems to have dried up recently!

I would agree, that pre March 2016, there were very few successful engineered clans.

All of the above is purely to add balance to your statement.
I'm very wary of reading about any generalisations within the game, whether that be skill sets, modding, or discussions on moral highgrounds!:)

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Originally Posted by Skrags

While I wouldn't disagree with any of the above, I do think it's necessary to add some balance here!

Firstly, your average player is probably your average casual single account player, the majority. Many (but not all) engineers run multiple accounts, and thus by experience alone, are likely to have more developed skill sets.
By definition, engineers progress their bases with the intention of preying upon relatively weaker opposition. Their goal is not to match bases with equal overall strength. Is dipping a skill?

[snip]
highgrounds!:)

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Personally I don't believe that's "by definition" what engineering is. In our case it was--wow, we are getting our clocks cleaned by these guys who skip xbows and infernoes! How can we get some of that?

Granted this was pretty early on, like mid 2015... And we had a ton of th9 max accounts, including myself. But as we have progressed, we have tried to follow .5 principles, and it's turned our mixed log into about 80% green.

We carry a mixed bag of about 5 different th levels, and wildly varying skill levels... .5 helped. I wouldn't call it seeking out dip attacks so much as preventing a huge disparity in dip attacks.

Our top th9 have gotten pretty good at three stars on opposing top th9--although we typically need 20-25 lvl heroes to do it. No magic pentaloons here. :smirk:

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Originally Posted by ChiefTuk

How often do you see outdated bases with symmetrical layouts in war?

When was the last time your clan had a war where every enemy TH9 wasn't 3 starred?

How many of those 3 stars were done by armies using laloon as a major component?

It's pretty obvious that people's opinions on how 'OP' loons are right now depends a lot on whether they're in a clan that's using poor/outdated layouts that are easy pickings for the pentaloon strategy the OP described. In the CWL, laloon variations are still the dominant TH9 attack.

Overall, the 3 star rates for experienced TH9 attackers are getting pretty high, even against well designed CWL type bases. Either offense gets nerfed or TH9 becomes irrelevant to the serious war scene.

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Th9 has been irrelevant to the serious war scene for a long time. No reason for it to remain in CWL or any other arranged wars imho.

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Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

Agreed, many cwl bases are something like this. The thing is, they are trying to stop multi-phase attacks, when you do a simple spam attack they are ill-prepared and can get crushed easily

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Ok, go join the CWL and "crush easily" a th9 with your th9.

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Originally Posted by Skrags

By definition, engineers progress their bases with the intention of preying upon relatively weaker opposition. Their goal is not to match bases with equal overall strength. Is dipping a skill?

I'm very wary of reading about any generalisations within the game, whether that be skill sets, modding, or discussions on moral highgrounds!:)

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Then why generalize (bold sentences)?
Not all engineers want to ROTF STOMP their opponents. Some don't wanna be ROTF STOMPED.....
This is mentioned in post 73 of this thread --> https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...lgorithm/page8

Tried a bit to replicate the penta attack discussed, anyone making it work? Maybe its the bases I tried, but committing enough loons to get an air def on the pull leaves me with too few to finish so far.

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

Tried a bit to replicate the penta attack discussed, anyone making it work? Maybe its the bases I tried, but committing enough loons to get an air def on the pull leaves me with too few to finish so far.

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I've not seen that tried, we are still seeing some bases killed by spamming quattro and using poison on the CC. And that's with a reasonably anti-air CC: maybe one valk, but otherwise baby+wizarch. We're just finishing war against yet another clan mostly spamming laloon and while it's true loons are OP and annoying to watch truly idiotic attacks killing some solid TH9s, I wouldn't call it an automatic 3, or a winning strategy

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

Tried a bit to replicate the penta attack discussed, anyone making it work? Maybe its the bases I tried, but committing enough loons to get an air def on the pull leaves me with too few to finish so far.

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Totally base dependent Tank.
I do have an easier time with a quad laloon with a zap quake to make it easier to pull the cc.
(sent you a pm)

Thanks, think its the asymmetry of the bases I've tried it on. Trying it with heroes snoozing doesn't help either...

Zapquake is probably a good option for asymmetrical air defs, might play around with that too. I'm generally happier with golaloon or gobolaloon, but I've got some guys that should probably be doing Hail Mary straight laloons.