Moderating and Enforcing

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Originally Posted by TheLastClan

true the fear of punishment is a poor way of getting people to do things,but it works and have worked for a long time, the reason C is not possible in real life and very hard on the forums is because it requires that everyone has the mentality that its how it should be, and thats pretty much impossible to achieve. yes writing constructive responses and helpful posts because you want to help is very noble but its a dream scenario, the correct amount of rewarding and punishing is not, its a very flawed system who has to take action a lot and C would clearly be better. A&B is just far more realistic. it sucks but thats life. we will always have trolls and thats because some people simply find it fun to annoy and harm others and thats the reason C just simply don't work. but use C for yourself and with time people will hopefully follow...

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I'm offering an alternate way of doing things. But it is not my responsibily how others choose to behave. Nor it is my responsibily to change things here.

Just because something is difficult to achieve, why should one settle for "welllll, it kinda works"-solution?

That's a valid question, what is "correct amount" of punishment and/or reward? It's largely depending on the observer and one's learnt "rules". For some, the correct amount of punishment is a pre-emptive punishment of all possible wrongdoings. Bit like giving a speeding ticket to anyone owning a fast car. "If your first post sucks, permaban"-kind of situation. Or maybe "10 gems for every good post".

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Originally Posted by OJM

It's all learnt behavior, caring and not being afraid to get banned.

Yes, I know the forum isn't really the optimal place for re-learning. Still doesn't mean it can't happen.

I had a look on the ideas sub just now and I see your point about the mod's absence. You could also have posted a proper answer to such thread(s), exlaining the situation.

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Actually no I can't. I am forbidden now from telling them to read the sticky. A message from me telling them welcome to the forums would be a total lie. I want them to leave and never come back. I want their threads locked and it explained in clear detail why this is occurring. I want SC to send people to their house and wall paper it with the sticky.

I have nothing but contempt for the continuous stupid that do not care about reading and following the basic rules setup to attempt to make the forum manageable.

When the moderation is consistent and constant the forum is amazing. We saw that today. The moment it lets up it turns to ♥♥♥♥. We're seeing that too. If I were king for a day i would continuously hire new mods and stick them in the ideas forum until there was enough to provide the constant coverage it needs.

You can preach about learned behavior and option C all you want. The stupid, however is unrelenting and endless. It cannot and will not be educated.

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Originally Posted by OJM

I'm offering an alternate way of doing things. But it is not my responsibily how others choose to behave. Nor it is my responsibily to change things here.

Just because something is difficult to achieve, why should one settle for "welllll, it kinda works"-solution?

That's a valid question, what is "correct amount" of punishment and/or reward? It's largely depending on the observer and one's learnt "rules". For some, the correct amount of punishment is a pre-emptive punishment of all possible wrongdoings. Bit like giving a speeding ticket to anyone owning a fast car. "If your first post sucks, permaban"-kind of situation. Or maybe "10 gems for every good post".

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There is no reward.

The correct amount of punishment is the locking of threads that contain ideas listed in the sticky along with warnings and eventually infractions issued to the folks who say "read the sticky" hours after the first person says it.

Exactly what occurred today, but done 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. If there aren't enough mods to handle this, train the existing ones who never mod that forum so they can help, hire more if need be. In addition immediately respond to reports. I report posts in that forum all the time and the only time anything was ever done was this afternoon.

Members reporting posts i think could help the mods substantially, but only if they respond to the reports and actually enforce the new sub forum rules.

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Originally Posted by dahimi

Actually no I can't. I am forbidden now from telling them to read the sticky. A message from me telling them welcome to the forums would be a total lie. I want them to leave and never come back. I want their threads locked and it explained in clear detail why this is occurring. I want SC to send people to their house and wall paper it with the sticky.

I have nothing but contempt for the continuous stupid that do not care about reading and following the basic rules setup to attempt to make the forum manageable.

When the moderation is consistent and constant the forum is amazing. We saw that today. The moment it lets up it turns to ♥♥♥♥. We're seeing that too. If I were king for a day i would continuously hire new mods and stick them in the ideas forum until there was enough to provide the constant coverage it needs.

You can preach about learned behavior and option C all you want. The stupid, however is unrelenting and endless. It cannot and will not be educated.

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The certainty of punishment is more important than severerity.

Yes, I agree, IF the chosen method is using punishment and fear of punishment, one has to make sure not one slips through the holes. If few slip through, it sends the message "punishment, but only if you get cought".

As the ideas subforum is... what it is... I still think a simple form, that sends the idea directly to SC would rid off the issue. But that's not the discussion topic so I'll leave it at that.

I've learned long ago already, that preaching and trying to convert someone doesn't work. Those willing to listen will get the message and think about it, while others just brush it off as near lunacy to even try to change something. If one is ready for a new idea, one might pick it up from a thread like this. Most aren't ready / able / willing to change and that's their right. Everyone are responsible of their own actions alone.

For example, anyone feeling such strong drive to moderate the ideas area, could offer one's services to SC and join as a mod on only that one area (dunno is it possible, but I'm guessing it is. If not, then the point is moot.).

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Originally Posted by OJM

The certainty of punishment is more important than severerity.

Yes, I agree, IF the chosen method is using punishment and fear of punishment, one has to make sure not one slips through the holes. If few slip through, it sends the message "punishment, but only if you get cought".

As the ideas subforum is... what it is... I still think a simple form, that sends the idea directly to SC would rid off the issue. But that's not the discussion topic so I'll leave it at that.

I've learned long ago already, that preaching and trying to convert someone doesn't work. Those willing to listen will get the message and think about it, while others just brush it off as near lunacy to even try to change something. If one is ready for a new idea, one might pick it up from a thread like this. Most aren't ready / able / willing to change and that's their right. Everyone are responsible of their own actions alone.

For example, anyone feeling such strong drive to moderate the ideas area, could offer one's services to SC and join as a mod on only that one area (dunno is it possible, but I'm guessing it is. If not, then the point is moot.).

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I'd gladly moderate that specific sub forum if i didn't lose the ability to be critical of SC. A simple form doesn't encourage any debate which I think is an invaluable component of the sub forum.

Also more moderation in the form of thread locking and an official voice isn't really punishment. Warnings and infractions for the read the sticky spammers is, but not really a severe amount. A PMed warning from a mod should be plenty for the vast majority of folks.

We aren't talking rocket surgery or torture here. Just a list of simple guidelines (which exist) and actual follow through on enforcement.

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Originally Posted by dahimi

I'd gladly moderate that specific sub forum if i didn't lose the ability to be critical of SC. A simple form doesn't encourage any debate which I think is an invaluable component of the sub forum.

Also more moderation in the form of thread locking and an official voice isn't really punishment. Warnings and infractions for the read the sticky spammers is, but not really a severe amount. A PMed warning from a mod should be plenty for the vast majority of folks.

We aren't talking rocket surgery or torture here. Just a list of simple guidelines (which exist) and actual follow through on enforcement.

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You could ask, if it would be possible to make use of the FCCCCoCIS ideology, and create a new mod group of "Idea mods", who can only 1) close threads on ideas area and 2) send PM explaining the closure. Deputize the folks ;)

Lovely. Some um...really nice fellow is bumping all the ancient clan wars posts. Quick go over there and kindly explain to this person who says they are breaking all the rules that they are in the wrong and welcome them back to the forums. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by dahimi

Lovely. Some um...really nice fellow is bumping all the ancient clan wars posts. Quick go over there and kindly explain to this person who says they are breaking all the rules that they are in the wrong and welcome them back to the forums. :rolleyes:

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haha no need to be mean, you could just report the guy and hope he get banned :D

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Originally Posted by TheLastClan

haha no need to be mean, you could just report the guy and hope he get banned :D

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No there is plenty of need to be mean. That's the point. There is no reasoning with them. I did report...hopefully someone will be along.

Even with the risk of this post getting buried between the idea-discussion, gonna post it :rolleyes:

I'll start with a short intro :cool:

Woman (to her boyfriend): "How do I look in this dress?"
Boyfriend: "You look like a couch."
Woman: "What?! That's so rude, apologize immediately!"
Boyfriend: "I'm sorry that you look like a couch."

Earlier, I wrote about humor being used as a tool to diffuse a situation. I think we got an example of that in the last forum contest winner-case. "Best-jokes-ever" or "making fun of people". But the short story leads to the next case.

Apologetic replies. To me, I almost always get the impression, that the apology is just words ment to sound good.
"We are sorry that you are experiencing this problem"
What the #%{* are you sorry about? That you caused the problem? That I found the problem? That you won't do anything about the problem?

Why should you be sorry? Did you cause all the issues what's going on intentionally and now regret your actions?

Adding words like "our sincerest apology" doesn't change the situation. It's still for the most part empty words ment to appease the person. To me, such replies often sound more like this: "yea yea, you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥, tough". Often it would be enough to just listen and try to understand what's really going on. I say try, as in many cases, the real issue isn't actually what is written. The trigger for the upsetness is hiding behind the layer of anger and strong words. It would of course take quite some time, effort and patience to dig up the real reasons, but that would actually solve the issue or at least release the anger and lead to realization of the situation.