The trouble with the league breakdowns is they tend to end up being TH focussed, and then end up with the maxing advantage again. Just what is the average heroes at TH9 in CWL clans? I've no idea of the answer, but they appear to have very different heroes to any normal clan.Quote:
Originally Posted by CasimirEffect
What is wrong with there being an advantage to maxing? I think it odd that players who should be at TH8 but rush to TH11 have just about all the advantage in the world, while their peers who are at TH8 are basically screwed and penalized for taking the time to max out their base. That seems backwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnyxDS
I understand the concern here, but eventually clans will be filtered out into their appropriate levels. We were just talking about how rare maxed 30/30 th9's are. The clans submitting rosters with fully maxed comps will be pushed into higher leagues and face appropriate level mirrors. The lower leagues will be for the clans that aren't maxed or have to take a th9 in place of a th10. There will most likely be a reduced skill level so having a th9 vs a th10 is not the end of the world. Especially since your other upper accounts have two attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnyxDS
And, as those clans villages level up and max they can move up leagues. You won't have and CWL lvl clans competing in the lower leagues. It will be for the mom and pop clans and the rushers. The nice thing is that they will face other clans at their level of skill not by chance matching a random "elite clan" and getting thrashed.
I think it would provide balanced matches both in village levels and player skills. The only way to sandbag would be to loose wars on purpose to get dropped into a lower league....with with worse loot rewards, and who would want to loose 10 times just to get a win?
From the rosters I have seen in the mlcw almost all players have maxed heroes for their town hall levels.
Just for clarity there are multiple leagues here just like multiplayer. It's not just one league.
Similiar to our breakdown: average of 50 combined across all 9s, and I agree but there is also upside. Hear me out:Quote:
Originally Posted by OnyxDS
One of the core design values of the game seems to be interaction with other players. A game mode like this might promote maxing advantage and a more specific upgrade path, but it also encourages interaction and relationships between clans for those interested in participating. Also providing a template new players to follow on their way to more competitive play would go a long way in fixing MM issues created by upgrade diversity. Engineers gaming the system for an advantage can continue doing what they always do while a different section of the community looking to avoid this predatory style of play has a new avenue to explore.
Overall, a mode similar to this is a huge step forward in the evolution and maturity of a game of its type and I suspect that we will see it soon enough given the overwhelming support from the competitive community for CWL.
Also if we are talking regular MatchMaker process, even if they could match identical clans....how long till the elite attackers filter out into their own clans and all the other clans are left with sub par attackers.....You could match an elite clan and get smashed with no chance of winning because a 2 list system can't take into account player skill.
This league system can. Elite players will end up in the upper leagues while average players end up in lower leagues. You could only match other clans in your own league. This would ensure not only a close match in clan structure but also in attack and defending skills.
The drawback to CWL is that its current configuration and the pressure it puts on leadership and members burns clans out while they climb the imaginary latter to greatness.
Joining a clan league currently puts a group at risk of blowing up the community everyone worked hard for years to build in game. For most clans, the rewards do nto justify the risk. However, if this style of play is a proper optional and seasonal game play mode, the effort required, focus, and risk are all reduced greatly while the competitive community is all-at-once more accessible at various levels with in-game appropriate rewards and incentives.
No algorithm should factor in player skill. This is currently done using the "recent war performance" check box and has been terrible as it has made win-streak and overall win-rate mostly meaningless for all but the most dedicated in roster engineering.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperStorm103
Right, I was just trying to point out that in this particular two list system (which would be better then the current and would support if that was our choice) has potential down fall issues as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by CasimirEffect
These league setting would ensure that clans of equal play skill are matched to a close degree.
I'm not suggesting players should get an advantage engineering, and I've given my own ideas - at length! - on how to prevent that. But giving an advantage to any group isn't the purpose of the MM. My clan was beaten up a couple of times back when maxer engineering worked, and it's not a lot more fun than being beaten up by defenceless TH11s (it is better, but not a lot). Giving an advantage to, for example, max TH9s also creates a load of things that SC probably think aren't desirable: people stop upgrading (and gemming) and just stop at a max TH; if people do upgrade their TH they find themselves out of war for 6 months - and I suspect the number of them quitting the game during the grind back to a war-worthy account is unacceptably high.Quote:
Originally Posted by bouges
I quite agree tournaments and events and such are very much a good thing - I do many of the forum events etc. But I've kept my clan away from anything too organised, refusing to pair up with a CWL clan that wanted us to help make up their numbers this season, largely because...Quote:
Originally Posted by CasimirEffect
So I think leagues such as CWL are A Good Thing, but they're not really a solution to any MM problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by CasimirEffect
I think it absolutely must factor in player skill. CWL clans already refer to "farm wars" which they regard as pointless. I don't suppose the guys getting beaten up enjoy them much more. My clan isn't at anything like that level, but even with the current system we still get some wars that are just a waste of time for both sides as we blow them away.Quote:
Originally Posted by CasimirEffect
The problem here is the garbage metrics: win-streak is an abomination and the sooner it's removed the better. It creates unrealistic expectations and a hugely negative atmosphere. My clan is up to 20 and people are starting to take note and ask what we've had before. It's not going to make wars any more fun. I really detest the situation that starts to form once we're on a month+ winning streak and everyone starts getting tense and blaming people if it goes wrong.
What it should be doing is matching good clans against good clans where possible - and giving some reward for being a good clan. So probably some sort of war trophy system where you get more points for beating a strong clan. And the clan gets special badges or something for achieving and maintaining a sufficient score - a bit like trophy league badges for the clan based on war performance.