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I don't see a reason behind discussing so much about engineered bases. I mean it is a strategy game. Whichever team has got better strategy wins. So everybody is sad their war match is not fair. If the same base comes up in multiplayer with a heavy loot people are more than happy to show their overpowered self.
Why can't we stop complaining and just get along with it?
so what is this thread for again ?
Don't see a reason to crib over it may be a few can think of it in this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by SMAEL
Of course, if you are pro-engineering, you do not see reason behind discussing engineering bases, and you see engineering as strategy, and you simply see that those who complain against engineering have double standards. So what's the point behind your thread!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBarbaric
No Sir not pro-engineering. But I missed the question at the end about stop complaining and get along. I have seen like 4-5 threads just for the sake of discussion engineering. Why not just get along?Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveANiceDay
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBarbaric
Ok, how could SuperCell level the playing field totally?
What if the base editor let us leave some of the structures unused and let us design a war base as we saw fit?
I could leave out all defenses and offer a truly defenseless base to the opponents .. and my war weigh would reflect my choices.
That way, EVERYBODY could dynamically choose "the best strategy" and we could all get on with our lives ..
(and I can offer my full base on multi-player of course)
The thing is, that as the game is designed right now, it takes a couple of YEARS to get to the top part of the game and "the best strategy" has changed over time. I can't make a defenseless base, unless I start over with a new village .. and I don't really feel like doing that.
We are coming to a point in Clash of Clans, where each player is implicitly required to bring a couple of mini-max, highly engineered accounts if they want to participate in war in a "serious war clan" ..
So .. the second you take a "wrong choice" you have to start over .. on a 1-2 year journey .. no wonder people get a bit upset..
/Affront
Because we want fair matches? Like, as long as their upgrading doesn't get them a massively unfair war advantage, we're cool. It's attack and defense strategy, not choice strategy. Upgrade how you want as long as it doesn't gain an advantage. By the choice strategy, that practically goes back to morals, and they warred modding, which was a slightly higher level of war advantage, but still, engineering is almost there in some cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBarbaric
My uncle is an Engineer. Drives a big locomotive for Norfolk Southern. Why is everybody mad at engineers?
Maybe you could have just added your opinion to one of the other threads instead of creating an engineering thread about how there are too many engineering threads
So glad you started a thread so we can not discuss the topic you are clearly discussing :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsdown::facepal m: job not well doneQuote:
Originally Posted by TheBarbaric
Sums up the entire thing in one paragraph, excellent post. Pro's are quick to dismiss this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Affront
We have definitely come across some lopsided bases in wars. I've seen that we did well anyway and either won or gave a tough fight and lost by a star or %. Yes we have 1 or 2 8.5 bases every war and can get matched to those lopsided bases but the recent match-making algorithm has really avoided such huge unfair advantages. FYI we have new TH10s to TH5s or 6s in wars.Quote:
Originally Posted by NGS8Blood
Seriously? Monkey sees, monkey does. You're all just following people that have figured it out years ago. Engineering an account for clash takes no amount of formal education. You're just following what you've seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnterTheBabyDragon
Engineer not in game but in real life.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnterTheBabyDragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnterTheBabyDragon
2 accounts /Affront?????
WHO IS THE REAL GUY
You wouldn't know the real intention of OP :) wait and see....Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateHamm
And what we see works. How about you open your eyes and stop being a liability to your clan?Quote:
Originally Posted by xXXCHRISXXx
Just my opinion of course lol. Do what you want with your base. It's all good, dude.
If supercell were to force players to play "their way" or your way, then the credibility of this game gets compromised and we all lose focus on what makes this game great. No good.
/Affront
People want to believe that it is their skills in attacking that win wars, not their base setup.
They especially don't want to feel punished for grinding out defenses in the game. Imagine if having max heroes was considered a negative in war? It would anger tons of people.
OP, it seems the point of your thread is a complaint about complainers, yes?
Lol, what's going on there? Are you enterthebabydragon or Affront? 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by EnterTheBabyDragon
My intention was to see people who don't think engineering is really a big deal and avoid pushing panic buttons on SC's side. So we can get a better update next up. May be not many liked the idea or want to consider the other side of the coin.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForgiveMeNot
http://i.imgur.com/6BQqz98.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Hatchlhoff
XD
bahahahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by milomilomilo
My point is stop complaining.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyfsullivan
How could they level the playing field?
By ensuring both clans have the same number of thXYs
Where X is the th level
And Y is the ceiling (offense or defense) level. Blocked into a gradable scale like: weak, mid, maxed
Wait, what? Affront meaning:Quote:
Originally Posted by Monoxide
"an action or remark that causes outrage or offense."
I thought that's what we did here on the forums to let others know your post might be considered controversial and not to get offended. I've seen a lot of people use /affront.
Lol, mine was engineered, this guy is just rushed XDQuote:
Originally Posted by xXXCHRISXXx
Haha, only one guy uses /Affront. Some people consider him the godfather of signing your posts!Quote:
Originally Posted by EnterTheBabyDragon
So you've started ANOTHER engineering thread... just to complain about complainers? Bravo����
Coming soon to a screen near you: an engineering thread that complains about complainers about complainers XDQuote:
Originally Posted by Bigdome757
This is a clash forum where we discuss issues related to clash. Engineering is one of those issues. People can have a reasonable discussion about engineer and "get along" as long as they have the intelligence to recognize there are valid opinions on both sides of the issue. There are other people who can't figure out that both sides have a reasonable position and those are the people that can't "get along." Which type are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBarbaric
I see now that there is a guy named affront and his post isn't particularly controversial.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monoxide
I guess I don't understand. I am new here. I was just trying to fit in. Should I sign my name too?
Edit: sorry, didn't mean to take this post off topic. Just learning.
To all those who call it a complaint on the complainers. The original intention was NOT that.
I see honest comments being ignored and silly comments being made fun of and new guys who didn't know what engineering was a few days ago(guys in my clan) after going through the complaint threads now it is a big deal.
I thought that a thread with a second opinion may keep things even.
However in a public forum my thoughts are not everything so I am happy to take the blame.
Got it. I suppose you could follow your own advice as well! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBarbaric
Players want fair matches where the collective individual attacking skill of a clan decides who wins the war. Not how well you can exploit the matchmaking system. Is that so much to ask?
No, it is not unreasonable to want to play a game where individual attacking and defending skills are the only things that matter, and team composition does not matter. However, you might have to consider playing a different game than this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by porky1122
As I said earlier though, we're fine with how people upgrade, as long as it doesn't give an unfair advantage. Upgrade how you want, just create an offense:defense ratio for each 10 people going down the roster, being approx equal on each side. Then matches should be fair...Quote:
Originally Posted by EnterTheBabyDragon
THIS IS TRUE.Quote:
Originally Posted by whp4
Not unreasonable for this to be fair, SC has said they want to please players, and they want their games to be fair, meaning they should match engis against engis, as far as I'm concerned that's the only way to make engis fair, unless when you go over a certain offense:defense ratio they make it so you only have one attack in war, which is ridiculous as it just ruins war in general and makes it weird
Speculation
I do believe the cure to engineering will be the Clan War tournaments like CWL...
When they say MASSIVE this is what I think is coming.
You will enter into a tournament with a specific TH criteria, same as current format. From there let the best of the best win.
Engineers will have to build defenses now or just get rect,
and Rushed peeps will need to raise attack strength.
Once this is in full swing I do believe it will have an effect in the standard war community.
Bases can be engineered for CWL/friendly challenge by maxing and holding, rather than advancing to the next TH.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xjstryker
E.g., perma TH9, perma TH10.
That's what I'm doing. My perma 9 is almost ready (just missed out on the forum vs reddit scrimmage), my perma 10 will probably take a while longer.
It's a huge hot topic because it affects so many players. Many players consider it fair play due to the idea they say anyone can do it. Others say it's not fair play because they can't do it with their pre existing accounts. Regardless of wether you are pro or anti engineering in clan wars it's hard to deny any sort of advantage that is gained from engineering. Many players, myself included, feel that the game should give no player an advantage when searching for opponents. The deciding factor in wars should be the overall offensive and defensive abilities of each player in a clan. Not the route they've chosen to upgrade their bases.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBarbaric
Until supercell gives an official ruling on wether they're happy with it or not (they've hinted that they don't like it) then it will continue to be a hot topic due to the percentage of players that are affected by it.
Would be nice if sc would actually communicate their stance. But really, after the years they spent "working" on the modding problem, sandbaggers are just picking up that mantle.
We've literally just matched against yet another sandbagging clan.
Gotta love how sc awards your win streak by pitting you against these clans.
Sandbagging isn't fair play
#WeWantFairPlay
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xjstryker
Quote:
Originally Posted by littledoctor
Every time we face CWL clans, it's 18 defensive weighted 70K TH9s, bunch of 89K defensive weighted TH10s and some 109K defensive weighted TH11s. Is this what you think SC has in mind? I think not. I'd wager not. Where do all the other non 70k TH9s go? The non 109K TH11s go? SC is not going to do this.
holding at max is not engineering, that's to do with skill...Quote:
Originally Posted by littledoctor
Quote:
Originally Posted by littledoctor
Personally i wud rather see that than a th11 with 45/45/20 getting matched with or midlevel th9's.
We will see what they come up with. But i think it is a more viable eventual solution
I'm not upset at all. I agree that's it's a strategy game and people play it as they want. I have a fully maxed TH11 and my second account that was a maxed TH9 is now going to be an engineered TH11. If you can't beat them join them :)
Also just started a new account. It's at TH3 now but that will be a defenceless base.
Nope. Maxing is engineering just as much as defenseless or a perma .5. Your max base can have the same weight as a rushed base at the next th level which cannot 3 star you but you can crush.Quote:
Originally Posted by NGS8Blood
Is not one purpose of this game to advance your base? Then why would one would "freeze" their base at anything other than th11 (since that is all the game allows) other than to gain an advantage?Quote:
Originally Posted by NGS8Blood
Perma-ths are still "lopsided" if utilized in clan wars - especially with th-linked weight were used. This would become the norm and the new engineering.
Being a perma-th9 or th10 is not a reflection of "skill" but of how one can play the game. There is nothing wrong with it, but this can definitely be abused for war.
You beat me to it ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by gw2kpro
SC is doing a great job working their matchmaking to try to offer up fair wars. The formula continuously gets adjusted in order to achieve just that. Now that offence as well as lopsided bases are taken into account, better matchmaking is occurring.
Will you get some tough matches, yes, it's a guarantee. As your win streak increases, so will the difficulty of the wars. And yes, you may still occasionally get matched up to a engineered clan that will hold a significant advantage. That's when you use the war to try out different attacks that you would normally not use. In the clan I'm in, I've not seen a bad matchup for us in a few months.
That's a choice though, that some make...Quote:
Originally Posted by Affront
But that's not really true for like 99% of people playing. Until you're TH10 and have dropped infernos, there's always the option to push offense before defense, and have it benefit you in war matching. And even if you've dropped infernos, you can still push offense if you want...Quote:
Originally Posted by Affront
We see this enough that I've started calling it "9.25": TH10s with mid-TH9 levels of everything but spell factory, sometimes camps and often valks upgraded to TH10 levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmurfKick
It's a logical thing to do if your goal is "make my base as powerful as possible, as fast as possible" without hurting your clan in war.
You can war in 2 places, first is being engineered below th11. And don't max th, you actually are worse off if you are maxed th and don't upgrade, you'll most likely pull a th aboveQuote:
Originally Posted by Affront
Second is obviously where you can go to, be a maxed th11 in a maxed th11 clan.
That's how I war, so that I always have the advantage regardless of which account I'm in. It's simple really
Do a maxer clans take rushers who have good skill?Quote:
Originally Posted by porky1122
Do you sit members who have upgrading heroes?
Do you only accept new members if they have maxed troops?
You're roster engineering yourself. Look into the mirror before you comment on others. If attacking skills and base design are the only factors, you wouldn't shun a rusher, you wouldn't shun a maxed th9 with 10/10 royals and you'd definitely let your th9-11 players with upgrading heroes join wars
Exactly, completely maxed th and being perma th is the "engineering" of cwlQuote:
Originally Posted by littledoctor
Some maxers just want to hold on to their imaginary status quo and believe they are above others. Maxing = engineering in cwl, if player really stands for fair wars and "attacking skill and base design determines the war", they should rush their base or be a new th level and join cwl
Supercell is in a tough position IMO. Literally impossible to please everyone currently. Think we should take a step back and recognize that.
I thought the purpose of the cwl was to have balanced wars? Having maxed townhalls guarantees the weight will be even and never change. I take it that they do this because it's easier than guessing what everyone will weigh on battle day?Quote:
Originally Posted by SinOfDusk
Either way, their perm maxed townhalls are seeking to match other perm maxed players. They aren't preying on casual clans. I understand you have a lot of animosity towards maxers but to say they're seeking advantages over lesser players is absurd when in fact most of us are just seeking even wars with like minded players.
That is an invalid arguement. EVERY clan can sit members based on whatever criteria that they feel is most beneficial at the time. I'm travelling right now so I am not in my clans current war because I can't reliably attack, is that roster engineering? Of course not.Quote:
Originally Posted by SinOfDusk
Rushers are not accepted because they quite simply can't perform at the level of someone with a more developed base. I can't speak for other clans, but I can for mine. Rushed bases allow for too many lost stars and rushed offence fails to get the stars. Performance is critical and 2 equally skilled players will not get the same results if one player has rushed any aspect of the account. That has been tried tested and proven true.
but everyone has a different level of skill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camja11
if you have 2 guys, 1 is offensively rushed and the other is defensively rushed, you will take the offence heavy engineer instead of the defense heavy one with bad troop levels no?
Most of the top clans arrange their wars so that they don't gotta deal with lousy engineers anyways. Would be nice if they added a feature to make it even easier for fair play clans to avoid them.
That way it's even easier for engineered clans to continue to lie to themselves that their clan is the best due to their forged war log.
So player who is mid th9 is not allowed to join cwl? The cwl seems to be as discriminating as me, so only a tiny subset of players can join these "fair, competitive wars"Quote:
Originally Posted by xXXCHRISXXx
I thought these players are people who think "base design and attacking skill should be the sole factor of winning wars". So if a player is a mid th9 and have better skill, they're shunned? If the above premise is correct, shouldn't that mid th9 perform better and be accepted rather than only maxed th9s? Because like any wars, base design and attacking skill isn't the only factor that matters
Exactly! Thanks for making my point for me. Engineers also take members that are most beneficial to us, we wouldn't want a maxer in our clan to pull a higher th don't we?Quote:
Originally Posted by Camja11
Any strategy that gives you an advantage is war is akin to engineering. Since it gives an unfair advantage against clans who allow players to war without heroes, thus disallowing players to participate with upgrading heroes is as much cheating as engineering
Why so you sit members, then pick and choose who to join if it doesn't give you an advantage?
Engineers say their way is fair play too. Why do you think your opinion is more important?Quote:
Originally Posted by rikkirattoe
Just because YOU want players to play your way, does not mean that is the right way. I'm not even in an engineered war clan but find what they do to be in the rules and therefore fair. They thought about what to upgrade and take a hit in farming to focus on war instead of just upgrading everything without thinking.
I get tired of seeing these engineering threads as it's the same rehash over and over. I pretty much decided to stop commenting on them because they're so toxic or simple chest pounding on what's superior (other than the derailments into off-topic issues) I really wish it would end.
But, it's pretty understandable WHY there are threads regarding this topic which is becoming a wider issue more and more.
Simply put, if you are going into a competitive match, you expect for it to be even for everyone going in, right?
Well, with clash, everyone expects to enter clan wars having the same chance to win as to lose, no manipulation, no sandbagging, no defense building on war day, none of that.
The issue seen with engineering is that they turn the matchup in their favor for the majority of the time BEFORE the search gets a match up. So, if you are going to war knowing that you'll lose unless you use that tactic that you are basically forced to, do continue warring and fighting over a loss? I wouldn't as it discourages me from doing anything.
Back then, new TH10s without infernos, could drop them on prep day and make the matchup unfair for the opponent as the best the opposing TH9s could do is 2 star them while the Inferno placer can simply 3 star with enough skill. That was seen as fair because both can do it, but was it really fair?
It's not that they want engineering to be removed, but to not be matched and for the matchup to be fair for both parties, only needing base design and attacking skill to actually 3, not some over powering force matched to a weaker, far weaker force.
TH9 (50) clan getting matched with a clan that has 1 TH10 with infernos on top while at the very bottom a fully defenseless base and only laloon maxed along with the GW and no king or queen? They can easily wipe out the top 4 bases, while the TH9 clan cannot. Now, this is for example purposes do not take that given as something that actually happens, it's a mock up of what players can face.
That, I don't see as being fair, if you can't do anything while they abuse of your weakness or your lower attribute, it's literally bullying someone lower. But then again no one cares because "it's a playstyle that can't be removed", uh no, try again, sniping was a part of the game and that was removed fairly easy, it was a playstyle that was abused to the very limit of its lifetime, that wasn't how the game was meant to be played. The game wasn't meant to be played at TH1-10, it's only currently meant to be played at TH11, yet no one notices this because of entitlement to their respective town hall level, you are training yourselves to match at TH11, see it as you acquire a skill that you can't jump straight to at TH11, you go through stages to learn how to combat certain objects, going to it in the dark then you wonder why you have a 30% loss..... I'm not saying it should be removed, but I facepalm at most of the comments I read regarding this topic.
Because being a Th9 means everything must revolve around you, being a TH10, a town hall which for some odd reason is included into the TH11 meta when it isn't, you are the "end game", again, no. TH11 is the current and only endgame.
Are you a TH10 at the moment? Yes? Are you a TH11? No? You have no need to be around TH11 in terms of balance. Respective balance per town hall level is needed because most of the balance bunches up 2 town halls that work differently.
/end rant
There is already a feature to avoid engineered clans and allow your true skill to shine: Friendly Wars.Quote:
Originally Posted by rikkirattoe
You can come to an agreement with your friendly opponents on TH numbers and have a very fair and very fun war.
All true enough I think, nice post.Quote:
Originally Posted by BbaBaba123
The one that I seem to have to comment on a lot, is the two different types of engineering.
Base Engineering (like TH11 offense with TH7 defense)
Roster Engineering (filling spaces at the bottom of a war to gain an advantage)
Clans that use either of these are more likely to find other clans doing one of these.
Many clans are unwittingly engaging in roster engineering. There was another "engineering complaint" thread where they said they had bases from TH6 (which is very new, lets face it) to near max TH9 which is pretty strong.
Perhaps you didn't intend too, but that's sandbagging the bottom of your clan with low war weights, so don't be surprised if to find a 'fair' match the algorithm finds others who have an 'engineered' clan as well (of either sort)
Oh, and threads that complain about their "mirror" being too strong... you don't have a mirror and claiming you do just makes you look stupid.
Idk, that's not a question I can answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by SinOfDusk
I think you're missing the point. I'm sure they do it this way because it's easier to manage all the clans and wars if everyone has the same weight of townhalls. If everyone weighs the same and each clans has an even amount of townhalls that's about as fair as it can get correct? Fair even wars that come down to who is the better player and clan. I personally do not see a problem with that. Matter fact, we should all strive to have that. A game we can ALL enjoy with multiple strategies and no single dominant playing style.Quote:
Originally Posted by SinOfDusk
Those that complain about their "mirror" being too strong doesn't understand war weight.
Yes, you wouldn't shun those players if you knew they would pull in the same player on the enemy clan. As for upgrading heroes, I don't understand. Unless it means you match another player also with a hero down, this doesn't really apply.Quote:
Originally Posted by SinOfDusk
The trump administration is going to repeal engineering and replace it with something worse.
Skill in attacking should be the deciding factor.
And the engineers are going to pay for it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ABannedOfBrothers
I've said this before in another thread, this is the only game in this genre that allows you to do better in competitive play by intentionally making your base defensively weaker. I truly do not think this is the way supercell invisioned clan wars. I think in the coming months it will be fixed.
SC has already modified the MM to address these bases and they have stated they will continue to do so. Maybe their changes will work and maybe they won't. But it's clear that they wouldn't try to change the type of advantage these bases have if they thought it was kosher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krastor
Have you heard of "smurfing" or "twinking" in Warcraft? It was a way of doing PVP where you would make a L19 character to put into L10-19 battlegrounds, then load him up with awesome gear that most L19s could not get on their own. Then you would stay at L19 and smash noobs into oblivion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krastor
HeyQuote:
Originally Posted by HaveANiceDay
IMO your wrong.
0.5 is totally dead now.
Engineering is not good too.
Only defless is a little useful.
We have many .5 bases in clan but we face huge mismatches.
This war we have 1 eagle and 6 infernos and they have 1 eagle and 16 infernos.
You see? That's because we have 1 10.5 and 6 9.5
Now all of them matched with infernos while they don't have infernos.
We usually win because the other clan are noobs who can't 3* even a no inferno base.
Yes I remember twinks, they were devastating at low lvl PvP. But in clash you have offensively maxed th11 that are fooling the matchmaker into thinking they are a weak base. But they have the ability to give their team extra hits at the top of the map. Difference is the Twink evenif he could have got into the high lvl PvP bracket wouldn't have stood a chance
You, my friend, are genius. I mean who would ever think to start a discussion about a topic that has too much discussion. I bet you are one of those base engineers aren't you? Good job!😂👍🙋😒
But they are not fooling the matchmaker. The MM sees their clan's overall offense as a reasonable match for your clan's overall defense. Your problem is that your are looking at just 1 base, while the MM looks at the entire roster. If your top bases are hard to 3 star, then you can expect the MM to throw bigger and bigger offenses at you until your bases get 3 starred.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krastor
Incorrect. The matchmaking is based off of (about 90%) DEFENSIVE war weight of BOTH teams. Offense capabilities has almost no impact on matchmaking. So if one clan has offensive strength 2x higher but similar defensive war weight, you might get matched with them which gives the 1st clan a HUGE advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonHN
Do you have any evidence whatsoever of this 90%/10% claim?Quote:
Originally Posted by bunnyb0y
I call FAKE NEWS
Please provide support for these claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by bunnyb0y
This comment seems so outrageous, it seriously strains credibility
Have you been without internet for the past 5 months? They added offensive weight back into the MM a little bit in October, then A LOT in December. Offensive weight is a now a significant part of MM.Quote:
Originally Posted by bunnyb0y
Nope just somebody being a smart-alec .. it happens ..Quote:
Originally Posted by sheedy17
/Affront
No, SinOfDusk .. It's not simple really..Quote:
Originally Posted by SinOfDusk
The game is not meant to be played on 6 different account with complete knowledge about upgrade paths and the best strategies.
New players start playing and view the game from the standpoint of a TH1 . at that point, they know about barbarians, archers and wizards and nothing more ..
New players don't have the luxury of perfect 20/20 hindsight.
Players that are 3 years into the game, on ONE account, like me, can't just go back and do things over again on our singular account. Yes, we can create another 5 accounts and dedicate our lives to Clash of Clans more than we already do and start building up again and be snide about other peoples choices.
Multiple accounts per player shouldn't be a requirement and in my opinion, that's where we are headed.
/Affront
Perhaps SC should add an option to be able to "dismantle" defenses and walls so ppl don't have to make another village just to get an engineered account. However, as engineering is viewed by a lot of people as an unfair exploit, dismantling should be a costly option both in terms of resources and time (i.e. people would have to pay gold AND wait for several days/weeks while their builder dismantles the defense).
Won't happen:Quote:
Originally Posted by 210577
How is Supercell working towards balancing Clan Wars matchmaking?
"With every update there is the normal round of war matchmaking balance, and that will always shift things a bit. New troops/defenses/levels/stat changes get incorporated and weights are rebalanced according to troop usage and effectiveness.In the last update we rolled out a couple of adjustments so that "lopsided" bases/clans don't have that much advantage as before, and the more extreme cases of lopsided clans will have a harder time finding a match, and will be matched with tougher opponents. We firmly believe in a good balance and will continue to monitor things and to roll out small (or bigger) adjustments to war matchmaking with every update."
Does Supercell see lopsided bases as a fair and equitable playing style?
..."Without a restriction, what can we do? Keep in mind that we are already doing a lot. As mentioned in the previous Dev Q&A, there is a huge amount of code behind the CW matchmaking that specifically looks for lopsided bases and is designed to mitigate any unfair advantage they might have. This isnt always obvious to players, because the war map is sorted by defense strength only. However, attack strength is ALWAYS taken into account, and CW matchmaking does all it can to make sure the books are balanced overall from top to bottom of a war map, both in terms of attack and defense strength. Of course we can always do better and we will continue to improve this matchmaking very often.
We cant really prevent them without making extremely complex restrictions that will adversely impact some players and that would require a lot of time and development effort to do right and even then they might not even work that well in the long term. Instead, we try to improve our matchmaking algorithms to reduce unfair advantages from things like lopsided bases, and we will continue to do so regularly!..."
Earlier in this thread suggested "What if the base editor let us leave some of the structures unused and let us design a war base as we saw fit?"Quote:
Originally Posted by 210577
Coupled with a clear indication of war weigh, we would be able to go to war as ANY of the branches of the past that we didn't take..
Actually, this ability would be a hard blow to the War Farming community, but that's a subject for another day.
/Affront
Not sure of what you think is "significant" a 50% increase over previous the previous 10%, a 100%?...ok so now it might be closer to a 80-85% defensive war weight, my point still stands.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonHN
I judge my estimates on an average of wars where I have totaled the combined war weights of both clans vs. relative attack strengths (troop/spell capacity & lvl). Some of course is conjecture like figuring out how Supercell calculates Hero weight for matching since it is both offensive & defensive, and there is no hard set tool for calculating offensive war weight yet. But when my clan with true bases: 1xth11, 2xth10, 5xth9, 12xth8, 5xth7, 3xth6, and 2xth4 gets matched against enemy clan with a mix of true & defenseless: 4xth11, 8xth10, 10xth9, 4xth8, 4xth3...you can see that there is a HUGE disparity between relative attack and defense capabilities.
I wish I could claim that was an unusual matchup but we have had even worse in the past. Recent adjustments to the MM have not reduced by much, we were facing engineered about 2/3 of the time, last couple months a little over 1/2 :p
I think a difficulty here with calculations is going to be your own odd lineup, as there are few clans warring with a spread from th11-4. Your stats are likely to be unreliable to an extent just because the pool of relevantly similar clans to be matched with is small. I would put more credence in a large pool of stats coming from larger numbers of clans with more typically representative tighter spread war rosters.Quote:
Originally Posted by bunnyb0y
If you were after better matches it might be an idea to drop to 20v20 wars with a spread of 3 th levels, or maybe 4.
I don't disagree that the spread of my clan's TH lvl does make it more difficult for a similar TH lvl matchup on opposing team, but when I calculate the war weights of the above mentioned match & others, BOTH sides are about equal :saywhat: Which just proves my point on the continued HUGE disparity between offensive and defensive weight when game does matchmaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomville
Personally I think it needs to be closer to a 70/30 or 60/40 (defense/offense) to give the game more parity & hopefully they will continue to tweak the algorithm more in the near future.
Based on our clan past records I can say it is near to 60/40 after October update, we redord every war defense and offense for every bases, for at least 100 warsQuote:
Originally Posted by bunnyb0y
I would go farther than this. The whole thing about engineering is based on the fact, that you can only get 3starred once but you can 3star twice. In cw reality attack power wins wars (at least in cws with a wide TH spread). It would be nothing less than consequent to weigh offense higher than defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by samratulangi
It canīt be a serious suggestion to reduce the TH spread in the roster in order to prevent unfair matching. It canīt be the intention of the game to ban TH7 and lower from cw, just because they might cause an engineered opponent.
Edit: Engineered Clans are a fatal disease the game really needs to be cured from...
While I agree with you, the suggestion you are referring to, is one that the community as a whole, has referenced given :-Quote:
Originally Posted by mmpaparazzi
1) The complaints about engineering spoiling players enjoyment of the game.
2) The current state of the MM algorithm
A summary can be found here :-
https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...mpetitive-wars
It's up to the SC developers to design the MM. We cannot control this. Given what the community has evaluated, the suggestion was one of many, to "help" clans avoid Engineers, as per the linked thread.
We are only responding to the game meta over the last few months, and certainly not 'recommending' that TH7's etc be excluded from war. It's just the way it is at the moment!:)
I agree that it is a sad comment on the state of the game that regular clans just having fun together may need to think about how to evade those seeking to take advantage, and am hopeful that Supercell's continued efforts to tweak matchmaking will bear fruit and make a better gameplay experience for all here. It's definitely not a game change I'd like, to have groups of newer players excluded from the fun of war with their clan mates. Sadly at this point it's practical advice - but you could as easily exclude the top end as the bottom to follow the suggestion, and go to war with, say, a th9-7 or th 8-6 lineup. Another possibility is running two kinds of war in your clan alternating an all higher levels with an all lower levels war.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmpaparazzi
Nah. It takes a couple of months to bully th8s with a defless th9. It took me 4-5 months to start 3* near maxed th9s (no $$).Quote:
Originally Posted by Affront
bruh stop going to breitbart.com for your facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by bunnyb0y
SC has stated it before, MM was 50/50. keyword "WAS"
1. they have tweaked the MM such that offense is counted LESS. ( in 2015 i think)
2. then they made offense weigh MORE.
actually read through the update notes please, before spamming the forums with useless misinformation
If option 1 is not possible, go for option 2 which I stated:Quote:
Originally Posted by Affront
Max your th11 and war with people who are similar to you
Preaching to the choir, gurl! *insert snap here*Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzone
What should those players do in the years it takes to get there? What if many quit because the don't enjoy the engineering aspect of war along the way?Quote:
Originally Posted by SinOfDusk