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Why is it flawed mr radiating, because i didnt understand its intent or that you think my way of thinking is flawed, so thus you now will downvote me? This is the problem with a system for a forum related to finding information on the game we play. It is up to the individual to decide if information is flawed or not, are you now self appointing yourself how i and other forumers think, that too is a slippery slope....Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiating
I feel like this is just going to discourage differing opinions. This has nothing to do with the quality of your post and everything to do with how popular your opinion is.
OT isn't all witty one liners and Cat memes. Semi-serious discussions do take place there.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyaleV
I feel that OT should get rep points because your reputation isn't necessarily how knowledgeable about the game you are, but what kind of posts you make. You should be able to build up a good reputation through smart, well-written, or simply humorous posts, for simply posting things that are positive for the forum.
There are two types of forum folk:Quote:
Originally Posted by DeputyDonkey
http://i.imgur.com/uCPaNHd.jpg
Anyone upvoting me? I'm a comedian lol :pQuote:
Originally Posted by NotTheRealPaul
The above post is excellent proof of how flawed this system is... and for the record, I neither voted for or against it in reputation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dattflo
The user got a negative vote on reputation so came on forums upset they did and to advertise that fact. Of course this meant in return, because the user advertised their negative reputation they thought was unfair, they found a sympathiser who then voted a positive reputation to balance it.
Early proof of just how silly the system can be.
So does the person with the most negative numbers get to have a troll icon by their name. Or maybe after you reach a certain negative number you get a troll icon. And as you dig yourself deeper and deeper you can get a bigger troll icon by your name?
Personally I would prefer something that brings the best comments to the top, so I can find the useful army compositions postings quickly. Rather than sifting through tons of non useful chatter.
Don't we all start with 10 points? Or did someone all ready give me those reputation points?
Whose post are ya talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyaleV
NotTheRealPaul's or mine?
/Xtremegamer234
Only downside seems to be that you lose your ability to vote on others. But maybe Supercell will add "troll" to the list of descriptions right under your name to make up for the loss of voting rights.
[QUOTE=XtremeGamer234;9573312]Whose post are ya talking about?[QUOTE]
NotTheRealPaul's or mine?
Sorry, now I saw that ya were talking about Dattflo's post.
Sorry once again bro.
/Xtremegamer234
Ok, I see the reputation tab now that I'm on my laptop, couldn't see it from iPad.
I think it's a good idea mainly because all negative comments. When I joined the forums I figured they would be helpful which they have but only to an extent. Yes ppl do beat the same dead horse a lot but they also might not be an avid user of the forums like yourself and we all know how the game can do a uturn over night rendering older post useless. I hope the system works as intended and the forums become more useful since nobody probably wants a bad reputation.
I think the way to counter this is to require as many up votes as down votes (or maybe even more up votes). That way the undeserved down votes will be evened out by the up votes.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilISuppose
I dont post in OT but this post swayed my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by NotTheRealPaul
I'm confused by what you mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
If a post has zero votes then you can't down vote till a certain amount of up votes?
If so, then there would be no reason to really have down votes, as posts that were bad would simply be ignored.
YAAAASSS!! I woudnt mind a little rep bump for thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Holbomb
JK :smirk:
No he means a personal vote ratio. Like to post a downvote you must post 5 upvotes. Or something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by NotTheRealPaul
Maybe when rep comes to mobileQuote:
Originally Posted by NotTheRealPaul
Ok got it. But that brings up another problem of making it more likely, groups will team up. Have a group of 5-10 friends (not hard to find on a large forum), up vote each other every day, and then down vote anyone with a differing opinion together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Holbomb
It incentivizes people to form a group and do something like that, more so than the current system already does.
Scroll to bottom and click "Full Site". Did that on my phone so I can give rep points from there as well. Also, I like full site more as I'm more used to the format.Quote:
Originally Posted by Holbomb
Yeah but you have to vote for 15 others before you can downvote again as it stands. At 10 votes a day its 36 hours between downvotes. Not really worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by NotTheRealPaul
I know thats the deal but personally i dont like full site on mobile and im not gonna switch back and forth for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by NotTheRealPaul
Is it 10 votes a day or 15 votes a day? Please confirm. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Holbomb
/Xtremegamer234
10 per day. You must however vote 15 times before voting for someone again.Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremeGamer234
Oops. Didn't notice that detail. Hmm. Makes down votes kind of useless then huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Holbomb
I simply keep it on full site, but to each their ownQuote:
Originally Posted by Holbomb
Yes, that is exactly what I mean, sorry if it wasn't clear. I am just thinking those forced up votes would offset many of the undeserved down votes. However, someone who really does deserve down votes will get enough of them that they won't get offset by up votes. I don't know, I'm just throwing it out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Holbomb
Thanks. This has proved useful for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by JarekDaBoss
/Xtremegamer234
I am interested to know how people are using their rep upvotes. For some of my first ones I went historical rather than staying in the last day or so, and so I thought back to what were the 2 or 3 best posts I had ever read, in terms of interest, content, tone etc and allocated rep points to those posters for those particularly good posts. For the few rep downvotes I gave I went on only current factors, as I don't believe in holding the past against anyone.
Just been allocating them to posts that I think are humorous, well-written, etc. Things that I would like to see more of on forum. As far as down voting, I'm planning on trying to be careful and only use them when the posts add nearly nothing to the discussion/overall forum quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomville
It would honestly be pretty sad to see people come together only to put people down by using this system. I know it's not a super rare ocurance these days, but wby go through all that effore to do this?Quote:
Originally Posted by NotTheRealPaul
And to any mobile users I'd recommend giving the full site a go, I use it all the time and while the formatting may take a bit of time to get used to, once you do get used to it you'll wonder why you ever used the mobile site :p
Though there are some devices/browsers that don't work with the full site (by that I mean it looks atrocious), if this is the case for the time being you're outta luck. Hopefully they bring this rep system to the mobile site soon.
Don't like it.
Totally unnecessary and fertile ground for abuse. It's the last thing the forum needed. Too much negativity as it was.
Don't need "reputation" rankings to appreciate a well written post or to spot a troll.
I think that (at least in terms of pointing out trolls or great forumers) this was intended to help those newer to the forums who may be fooled easily by trolls, or just don't know which forumers are....less trolly I guess. Right now it seems that a fair few of the fresh spawns check the post count and base their assumptions off that (eg, a fresh spawn sees a forumer with 5k posts and assumes they must be great forumers). The rep system could (potentially) change that to the fresh spawn checking the rep of a forumer and basing their assumptions off that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elezar
Hopefully that makes sense, sorry if it doesn't.
I don't know if this was needed, seems for the most part the old way was working fine and although mostly casual recruiting for my clan don't see the need for a "reputation" in an adult forum.
I wanted to ask a question.
Can I start a thread titled "Am I helpful on the Forums" ?
I wanna start this thread to know what people really think of me as a Forumer. But I'll start this only if the Mods approve of it.
Thanks.
/XtremeGamer234
Nice. It will be interesting to see where this goes.
Can ya please clarify what are ya exactly talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheConfuzed1
That is, my query or the rep. system?
Thanks.
/XtremeGamer234
Was that you with the binoculars peeping in on those Clashers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomville
Close your blinds people:eek:
Can anyone please reply to my query??
VM/PM a moderator for a quicker response if you are awaiting their approval for the fastest response time.Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremeGamer234
After all these year, still alienating mobile version users.Quote:
Originally Posted by LachNessMeownster
Can't wait to see pro engineering ganging up on anti engineering. Or rushers ganging up on maxxers. More drama!!!
This is correct, we can see who gave reputation, both positive and negative. There are quite a few things moderators can see that ordinary members can't - which is necessary to be able to carry out our role properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Holbomb
i personally think this'd be better option :) what do u guys think about this?
http://i.imgur.com/VmbCeQb.jpg
Post Ratings: usual rating system where stars may follow this:
http://newcityphx.com/wp-content/upl...9194256687.png
***i know i'm not the best editor (photoshop)... but i tried :)
I don't think that would be a very good idea. Part of the reason we are keeping the reputation system anonymous is to keep things from getting too personal, and such a thread would be likely to lead to personal comments, both positive and negative - with some of the negative ones breaking the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremeGamer234
We don't really appreciate threads which we can see from the start are likely to lead to people getting infractions even if the intention of the thread starter was good.
I don't think that is available with "off the shelf" vBulletin. The reputation system as we are now trialling it is absolutely standard with vBulletin, was just previously disabled.Quote:
Originally Posted by sakiborislam
This might be a good option.Quote:
Originally Posted by sakiborislam
When someone gives you a bad rep. you'll normally feel bad(it's human tendency after all). As many other people have suggested, the rep. system might be used to abuse someone by posting an abusive rep. comment.
So this system might be good, through which the forumer will be able to improve his posts and won't just keep spamming for increasing the post count.
Any counter-opinions or suggestions are welcome.
/Xtremegamer234
I used to be a moderator on a big uk consumer website that ran Vbulletin and the Rep
System worked just fine. The situation was quite different though as users were of a different demographic and giving legal advice etc... this forum is a bit different.
I hope it doesn't get abused, although it will hopefully get rid of some of the toxicity.
Thank you very much for the advice, alex.Quote:
Originally Posted by alexheney
I'll keep these things in mind.
/Xtremegamer234
Currently, when I clicked My Profile and the Reputation Tab, I can see who left me the positive and negative comments. I left positive comments for other posters and when I checked their profiles and Reputation Tabs, I can see my comments but not my name attached to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by alexheney
For example, when I viewed your profile, I see that someone commented with "helpful and transparent" but I don't see the author of the positive comment.
Have to say even after less than a day I've already seen 2-3 different types of abuse of the system. I'm clicking on lots of forum regulars just to see rep status. Many folks already have +5-+10 just from there buddies in various cliques. I have seen many who sign their name after each positive reply so that forum user knows who to reciprocate to. Some have. I've seen a few who gave + rep because "they will probably get - from others so I want to balance it out".
What a gong show.
Not to mention many folks publicly asking why they got their - rep, it is not fair etc etc. I can't even imagine how much extra work this means for the already spread too thin mod squad.
The first few weeks will be like this, but it will soon fade. The Rep system should level out over time.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyaleV
Exactly. This is why we are trialling it initially for 60 days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesterdeath
A long enough period to see how it works out rather than just being influenced by people initially messing with ti.
Additionally, people see through manufactured Rep rather easily... over time it should level out and should become useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by alexheney
It's the negative Rep that worries me slightly. We used to use it, but it was only mods that could give it.
You do have a point there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesterdeath
/Xtremegamer234
On some subjects this is going to take up a lot of mod time. There's a few topics that rouse a lot of heated debate.
im not sure what purpose or value this feature creates. I'd like to see a response to that question. Not saying it won't but I just don't see it so would b curious to see what other people think. How will this change or improve forum life? Seems a little pointless to me, but happy to be convinced otherwise
I don't understand this attitude personally as I have seen a few people comment along these lines so far. Stating that only the negative rep is worrying, not the positive. Isn't this the whole point of a review system such as this? A place where people can freely leave both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesterdeath
Users reviews are always 100% ran on bias, which is why I don't believe they ever work. Both for negative and the positive. With that being said I would much rather see why someone thinks another person here is a troll, than why they are the perfect forumer. I of course agree with you and others who state that it can be easy to sift through and see who has their rep padded either direction, but why should I have to? Why have a system which is so easy to abuse and provides even more divide in the forum between people or cliques?
Don't get me wrong, I don't like ANY user based review systems and I've been involved with and used many myself over the last decade. I was a moderator in five groups and a "global ambassador" for a site much, much larger than this one for 8 years (Couchsurfing.org) and I noticed massive changes when they introduced a user based review system on both forums and for "security measures" through the site. They tried to become more hip, trendy, and rely on user base reviews and the site took a massive nose dive in usability, not to mention my job as a moderator got a million times worse. I was so happy to leave that site after that.
Last thing I want to add is for those of you saying it will all even out, people will get tired of padding rep, etc etc... I've thought that about this forum many times over the years thinking it will change. Heck, 12-16 months ago I thought that the forum would be done with the whole engineering debate... but no, people are persistent and keep at it. Same with TH sniping posts. I'm sure there are more examples as well.
I'm just saying that I don't think a few of you are giving enough people credit. When it comes to the psychological effect of 'reputation' on a site like this, it will always be plagued with people trying their very best to abuse it in their favour, and others in the opposite favour who they may not like.
So many rules to this.... I'll never use it
You will see this being abused to downwote people who are known but not liked by user. No matter what they write, but just for who they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by meonhoc
I had a bad experience on Reddit like that, I was commenting in a forum that was very male dominated. They went through my posting and found out that I was female. Here is it a question of the persons gender that cost a lot of downwotes, not what I wrote in that post.
In the system you bring to the forum, you have to write a comment when you leave a negative (not sure about that, but seems to recall it set up that way). If you just write you find the post offensive. That is a subjective statement. Who can say what you can be offended by or not? So it will be rather easy to gang up on people for one reason or another and at the same time making it almost impossible for a MOD to use rule #20 against anyone for just claiming they find a post offensive.
My point is, that if people have the opportunity to hide their reputation then they can at least avoid being frozen (ignored for the wrong reasons) out of the community by a few trolls, just by hiding their reputation.
.oO(Will the MODs go through any and all downwotes giving every day to see if they where given on a fair objective reason? I wouldn't want to be you when the next updates hits ;) )
@Roas, I think the mods will only check a negative rep if you feel like it was not earned or you feel like people are trying to gang up n you for no real reason (and you PM one of them to tell them this).
This is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by N1NJ4W4RR10R
We don't have any way of seeing all the reputation points given, we have to look at the individual profiles (or another screen we have, but still on an individual basis).
How long before people start saying come on this is a great post up my rep :smirk:
So the system is set for people to go to you (mods) for answers to why their reputation have dropped 2 points over the last 24 hours?Quote:
Originally Posted by alexheney
I know a lot of players that are so thin skinned that this could be that case. What will you say to them? Will you spent 5-10 minutes to figure out why they lost a point or just be annoyed by the question?
So back to my original question, why can't we choose if we want to show the reputation or hide it?
That is one of the things that will be determined by the trial - whether it ends up placing too much extra load on moderators due to that sort of request.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roas
Because that is not the way we have initially chosen to set it up. Again, like everything in the reputation system that can be changed, this is something which may be changed as we go forward, depending on reactions.Quote:
So back to my original question, why can't we choose if we want to show the reputation or hide it?
You can see which of your posts got the negative rep, and the comment the user left. The only thing we, as users, can't see is who did it. And I think the only time people would be querying it with a mod is if they they thought it was malicious. But, there's limited scope for the more toxic sort of person to throw negative rep around - if they drop 1 point below starting rep, then they lose the ability to vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roas
It does sound like it's bound to create some more work for the mods though, which seems unhelpful.
I guess because that defeats the whole purpose. It's to give us a feel for the quality of a poster without looking back through their hundreds of posts. I've already seen one or two of the "git gud" kind of posters who have dropped below 10 rep. It seems to be doing it's job mostly at the moment.Quote:
So back to my original question, why can't we choose if we want to show the reputation or hide it?
I think the likelihood of - for example - people getting upvoted massively because they have a cat avatar and downvoted because they have a dog avatar is limited.
I've received up and down votes for one of my comments. In fact, it was the very first comment on this thread. Someone accused me of being 'purely negative and only detracts from the conversation'.
As it was the first comment, I'm not sure who this conversation was between....
Whatever your views keep in mind this is a trial to see how it works especially once it has settled down. The sole motivation behind trying this is to see if it improves the forums overall. If it creates a huge amount of irate forumers badgering the Mods to fix unjust rep votes then clearly that would affect the thinking going forward - my gut feeling is that won't happen but we will see. Every feedback comment is being read and discussed so keep 'em coming.
Sorry if this has been answered but i thought voting would be anonymous. In my profile it lists the names of the people who up-voted next to their comment. In one case there was no comment, but it shows the name. Is this how it is suppose to be?
You can see the people who voted your own comment but when others try to see your profile then it will appear as N/A.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeputyDonkey
So am i the only one who cant see my rep? Or have i just got no street cred in the forums? Haha
I don't know here, but every forum I've been on using the rep point system HAS always shown the rep givers name (be it positive or negative).Quote:
Originally Posted by DeputyDonkey
But believe that the moderators have the option to turn it on our off(name showing)
Are you on mobile site by any chance?Quote:
Originally Posted by cleggy
Poor Cleggy had no votes so it was still hidden......or it may have been his use of the phrase 'Streed Cred' that stopped anybody up voting him.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeputyDonkey
How does one go about starting a revolution to down vote cowboys to the point they are rule 21 of thing not allowed on the forums?Quote:
Originally Posted by Holps
on the forums where people discuss scientific or tecnical things and give professional feedback this system may work. don't see why we need it here.
toxic comment? we have report option
we have already badges for people who give more valuable contribution
some brown-nosing will grow. mod or gasp? whatever you say, get a bunch of positive votes
people will agree more with Op hoping to get positive votes
what does it mean "valuable poster"? who has more rep points? maybe people who post less but give really valuable info or ideas but for some reason , maybe because in not popular thread or not noticed by many or simply because someone unknown , will not get any positive points.
personally i don't care about my reputation, i don't come here to be judged by people who don't agree with what i say. i come here to get info about the game.
can't SC redesign/remake it for better feature?Quote:
Originally Posted by alexheney
i think forumers will like to give marks (like: between 0-5 stars) on a specific post/comment instead of agreeing with that post/comment or not :)
simply, we can't answer (give feedback) everything with "yes" and "no" :caticon:
I was looking around for this, but I don't seem to have that option in my setting and I have received 1 point.Quote:
Originally Posted by LachNessMeownster
Not sure how many people do have the ability to see that. I don't either and Holps said they were looking into it..Quote:
Originally Posted by Destroyer864
May just be a glitch for some of us. You can still see the comments under your profile though so all is not wasted...
so i checked some profiles
people get downvotes because someone does not agree with what they say....hmmm was it enough to quote and say the opinion
if people say things because they don't know the system or ignore something, or even derail from the topic, are we all now entitled to do mods' job or let people down?
I don't have the reputation in my general settings either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwp721
That's because you did not have anyone submitting a rep for you. You do now...Quote:
Originally Posted by Braddeller
This new feature will just going to encourage group thinking and politically correct statements. Unpopular, but accurate info will just be drowned by popular inaccurate info. One good example is that lopsided bases are being crushed in the match making since the October update. However, it seems that the popular sentiment of the forum is that these lopsided bases are still gaining huge advantage in war, despite many contrary evidence found by a few knowledgeable forumers.
Anyway, lets see how it will played out during the trail period.
I'm still unable to see this supposed "star" in the bottom left of the comment. Perhaps this hasn't rolled out to everyone?
Are you on mobile? If so then scroll down and click "full site" to be able to see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Backyardigan
Nope. I'm on my laptop. No ability to vote up or down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micheallo
Can you post a screen pic so we can see what you are seeing??Quote:
Originally Posted by Backyardigan
I'll hold my judgment on this subject until I see it in play, but I really think this has a huge potential for abuse. The masses and the sheep that agree with everyone will easily see their "reputations" soar, while anyone with an opinion that differs from that of the forum will see negative reputation. It will definitely prove difficult to have an opinion around here anymore.
I have a question regarding this reputation system. Its been told that if someone gives you a reputation you get a notification. But does the notification only tells you about who gave you the rep without the comment or does it also shows the comment (if any) with it?
It tells you the comment，but not who made the comment。Quote:
Originally Posted by soundwave1872
This is wrong, at least for me. When I look at my reputation I can see the names of everyone who left them.Quote:
Originally Posted by NotTheRealPaul
Seems kind of daft imo. Weren't these supposed to all be anonymous? Pretty easy just to reciprocate between two people this way. You scratch my back I scratch yours type of garbage?
I don't see who is making my comments. Is there something I'm missing?Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyaleV
Go to your own profile, then click on the reputation tab. There, at least for me, I see all comments including who sent them.Quote:
Originally Posted by NotTheRealPaul
Oh I see it now. When I get the notification for a rep comment, it doesn't say thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by RoyaleV
got it :) nice :)Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyaleV
btw, i got 3 green points but 12 points total... seems like someone gave me a red which is not shown in Reputation tab :D
I've had two people downvote me and it shows exactly who did it which is rather stupid imo because a vindictive person will know who to retaliate against.Quote:
Originally Posted by NotTheRealPaul
Viewing from full site on my profile.
If the post that a rep was given for gets removed, then the point (+ or - ) still counts, but it is no longer visible in the reputation tab for you. If the post gets physically removed (as with spam) then even mods can't see it, but it still counts.Quote:
Originally Posted by sakiborislam
So you can probably guess which post it was given for.
Can I post screenshots of positive and negative reputation comments about me? Or is that naming and shaming?
I am perplexed by receiving a + and - for the same comment. This tells me the system is broke, and has little credibility. Subject to anybody's interpretation and feelings.
I'm glad to see there is a limit on the amount of Rep you can give out.Quote:
You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.
the post is still in the Ideas sub-forum :)Quote:
Originally Posted by alexheney
and i got 3 green for that one, but counts only 2 i guess... or internal problem may be...
To me, it means the system is working ok. The votes mean nothing when looked at alone. It is the accumulation over time that matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherCarey
As for the other issue above about seeing the votes, when I go to my profile I do not see who voted.
Edit: actually I just checked and now I do see it, I don't think I could yesterday? These should remain anonymous in my opinion.
Are you at the screen you go to when you click the notification or your actual profile? Click your name at the top right, and then go to reputation tab and it should say who votedQuote:
Originally Posted by 2222
You must've replied while I was editing. I can see the names today, but I thought I couldn't yesterday. Perhaps something changed or maybe I just was mistaken yesterday, I'm not sure. Either way, I think this should be anonymous.Quote:
Originally Posted by NotTheRealPaul
Meh
this forum is to get answers to questions & to bring up & debate the issues. Because of the good job of the Mods deleting posts, etc, this system will do more harm than good IMO. I see it bringing back strong cliques and I see the negatives flying if one disagrees with an idea, such as rushing to Th10 or engineering. I see it being abused. I think some people will post more than necessary & others maybe not giving their opinion if it disagrees with the majority.
I'd rather see a like /dislike to a post.
Longevity on the forums is already marked by the # of posts. Just because someone posts less, ( a lower reputation) doesn't make their posts less valid, or even better than one with high popularity here.
you'll end up with less diverse posts IMO.