Horrible Mismatches Are Winnable

We just finished a 40v40 where we were grossly outmatched:

Their side:
8x TH11
12x TH10
2x infernos

Our side:
1x TH11
2x TH10
0 infernos

All their TH11s have max lava loon troops. Their war log is full of perfect 120 stars. As soon as I saw the match I knew we would get perfected.

We start off quickly and our #1 tripled their 1 & 2. After a few hours we had 100 stars. Maybe we could get a perfect and force a draw? Unfortunately we got stuck on 119 stars with their #4 @ 89%. It was over, I went to bed expecting to wake up to a 119-120 loss.

Well, during the night they cleaned our top 15, then all of their TH11s worked on our 1 & 2. It took 4 attacks to beat our #2, but they could not beat our #1, which was hanging on @ 89%. At this point, with all their TH11 attacks used up the score was 119-70. We still had a lot of untouched bases at the bottom.

What did they do? They stopped attacking.
They knew the best they could get was a draw, so they gave up @ 70 stars.

These mismatches are winnable if you work hard. Work hard on your attacks. Work hard on your base designs. So please stop complaining.

Congrats. Did the th11s have proper defenses ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleMoon

Congrats. Did the th11s have proper defenses ?

---

Of course they didnt. Lol, is that a trick question? 8 th11 vs 1?? We dont get perfect wars in the real world of th11 defenses

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleMoon

Congrats. Did the th11s have proper defenses ?

---

Neither clan had defences - look at the inferno count in OP's post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RonHN

These mismatches are winnable if you work hard. Work hard on your attacks. Work hard on your base designs. So please stop complaining.

---

Seeing as the enemy had no bases at all theoretically capable of defending against any of your top 3 attackers (assuming there was no eagle in with the 2 infernos), you can hardly call it a mismatch. The mismatches people are complaining about are when the enemy has a top base 1 or 2 full TH in excess of their strongest offence.

And, yes, it's possible to win hideous mismatches - but only really due to the stupidity of the enemy. I've seen plenty of TH11 vs TH9 attacks fail; especially just after the October update when I watched 2 hugely engineered chinese clan spam away with miners, thus losing their longish win streaks. BUT - the key point is it relies on the stupidity of the enemy; there's little you can do when the enemy can TH dip every single attack against you, and it's physically impossible for you to clear their top base.

Every war is winnable, even if the other clan gets all the stars, if you can attack properly, you can get all the stars also

People have bad wars, and sometimes there are bad attackers, people got to stop looking at the opponent and worrying before they even attack, you are not out of it until the attacks are all done and you have nothing left

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sheedy17

Every war is winnable, even if the other clan gets all the stars, if you can attack properly, you can get all the stars also

People have bad wars, and sometimes there are bad attackers, people got to stop looking at the opponent and worrying before they even attack, you are not out of it until the attacks are all done and you have nothing left

---

This is not true. Thanks for the input though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sheedy17

Every war is winnable, even if the other clan gets all the stars, if you can attack properly, you can get all the stars also

---

I do not agree with that statement. All wars are not winnable. For example, you're matched against a roster engineered clan, top heavy, bottom filled with trash th3 accounts. That tends to lead to mismatching at the very top, usually in favor of the clan roster engineering, ending up with them having a higher townhall as their number one. We all can agree that it's harder for a lower townhall to triple a higher, making the war unwinnable for the non engineered clan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sheedy17

Every war is winnable, even if the other clan gets all the stars, if you can attack properly, you can get all the stars also

People have bad wars, and sometimes there are bad attackers, people got to stop looking at the opponent and worrying before they even attack, you are not out of it until the attacks are all done and you have nothing left

---

I feel like your second paragraph contradicts the first. I agree with your second paragraph, sometimes even a huge mismatch is winnable, but this usually depends on terrible attackers, or people losing connections mid attack.

Your first paragraph says that even if the other clan gets all the stars, you can too. That's not true. Mismatches do occur - sometimes it's by design, sometimes it just happens. But if your opponent is stronger up top, it may well be that you cannot get all the stars despite being an experienced attacker.

Even most roster engineered wars are winnable or come very, very close. You can't look only at prep day. There have been too many times myself included where it looked like a total mismatch for them only to come and my clan wins the war.
Time to stop looking for exceptions to every little thing since an exception only point out the rule exists and that is most wars are winnable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xXXCHRISXXx

I do not agree with that statement. All wars are not winnable. For example, you're matched against a roster engineered clan, top heavy, bottom filled with trash th3 accounts. That tends to lead to mismatching at the very top, usually in favor of the clan roster engineering, ending up with them having a higher townhall as their number one. We all can agree that it's harder for a lower townhall to triple a higher, making the war unwinnable for the non engineered clan.

---

Making something "harder" hardly makes it "unwinnable".

Awesome post. I love it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MossackFonseca

Making something "harder" hardly makes it "unwinnable".

---

Point me in the direction where I can find a th9 that can triple decent 10s with easy. Or perhaps a 10 that can triple an 11 with easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xXXCHRISXXx

Point me in the direction where I can find a th9 that can triple decent 10s with easy. Or perhaps a 10 that can triple an 11 with easy.

---

In fact ANY TH9 v 10 triple or TH10 vs TH11 triple where the target is maxed. Just one example will do. If you can't find one there's no point trying to say it's always possible to win.

I do a lot of attacking up a TH, mostly in MP some in war, and it just doesn't realistically happen. It's borderline possible if the base is a complete shocker. It's possible against non-max bases, if they're not great designs.

Once again, Onyx laying down the law...

And to the OP, you're doing exactly what most engineering proponents generally make fun of. You're showing a breakdown of TH level only and then proclaiming it a "mismatch" against you because the other side had more TH11s. Any anti-engineer making a post like yours would promptly be skewered by you, and others who favor engineering, for "not telling the whole story." When two heavily engineered clans meet each other, just showing the TH levels is hardly enough to predict a mismatch because most of these accounts don't have the accompanying defenses, so netting 3*s on TH11 and TH10 accounts isn't in the same ballpark as netting 3*s on max TH11s (with eagles) and max TH10 (with infernos).

You're being incredibly dishonest. I mean it's pretty obvious it wasn't a mismatch if you won the war 119-70...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nerfedname

Once again, Onyx laying down the law...

And to the OP, you're doing exactly what most engineering proponents generally make fun of. You're showing a breakdown of TH level only and then proclaiming it a "mismatch" against you because the other side had more TH11s. Any anti-engineer making a post like yours would promptly be skewered by you, and others who favor engineering, for "not telling the whole story." When two heavily engineered clans meet each other, just showing the TH levels is hardly enough to predict a mismatch because most of these accounts don't have the accompanying defenses, so netting 3*s on TH11 and TH10 accounts isn't in the same ballpark as netting 3*s on max TH11s (with eagles) and max TH10 (with infernos).

You're being incredibly dishonest. I mean it's pretty obvious it wasn't a mismatch if you won the war 119-70...

---

Well written as usual nerfed.

I've posted before that when people create "mis-match" threads they love to show off the TH differential and the offensive advantage that their opponent has. However these post conveniently omit the incredible defensive disadvantage the other side has.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xXXCHRISXXx

Point me in the direction where I can find a th9 that can triple decent 10s with easy. Or perhaps a 10 that can triple an 11 with easy.

---

I do agree that some wars are unwinnable, but, having guys who can do this on your team (we have a few), some "unwinnable" wars are winnable.

(Done around 3-4 weeks ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GGdzGYnlp4

Most mismatch claims are ♥♥ because they omit key information.

It doesn't help when we keep seeing "This is unbelievable, we don't stand a chance" threads, followed by the inevitable post 3 pages later "We won in the end".

Here's one recently :-
https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...ch-matches-!-!

My issue with this thread is that the title suggests that the reader (and his clan) just don't have enough skill to win these difficult wars, compared to the OP. (Probably not intended, its just how I read between the lines).

Certainly there's a valid argument/point for not complaining about mismatches, until the war is over.

There's also a validity to 'Don't give up, you never know!'

The reality is, that if your opponents actually turn up, there certainly are such things as unwinnable wars.
You only have to check the hyper engineered clans war logs to realise this is true.:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nightmare77

I do agree that some wars are unwinnable, but, having guys who can do this on your team (we have a few), some "unwinnable" wars are winnable.

(Done around 3-4 weeks ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GGdzGYnlp4

Most mismatch claims are ♥♥ because they omit key information.

---

While that attack was well executed, that base had a couple of things working to the attacker's advantage, Xbows were set to ground and there were no anti air CC troops. Prior to the balloon buff, there was no way a Th9 land attack was going to triple a max Th10. Those type of mismatches were literally unwinnable.

Let's agree that some forum complainers do leave out important information and some complaints are unwarranted, but engineering also needs to be dealt with. Because there are truly unwinnable wars which should NEVER happen. My clan was involved in two truly unwinnable wars in the last 2 months, and another 2 severely disadvantaged wars where it was not realistic whatsoever to win, due to roster engineering. So the junk bases need to be dealt with or punished, and there needs to be some standard held to strategically rushed bases. I don't know why people are talking about mirrors all the time, thats a noob mentality, but the WHOLE CLAN'S weight is measured for wars, which makes it easier to skew when 30 guys are engineering their bases, especially clans with 3 defense-less th9's and a ton of junk accounts (like someone who got snooty with me last night when he wasnt involved in the conversation), when their tops are a max th10 and max offensively th10 and then a couple real th9's. They are never gonna draw bases that can 3 star their tops, so its a total skew which IMO, shouldn't be allowed. Their defenseless 9's and junk bottoms are gonna keep the total number so low, that no one capable of 3* their tops will ever be drawn by the mm, yet they'll clean innocent max th8's that the mm is recognizing with their 4 spells and dragons.

So the product becomes watered down, for what though? Winning at all cost? I dont know why anybody would want to be involved in a war like that, on either side.

Attention heavily engineered clans that have 100+ winstreaks going: When people look at your war log and your clan, and see a bunch of junk bases and th10's with gray walls and level 6 ads that are among the "strongest" in your clan that would get absolutely SMASHED by any th10 proper, the reaction is almost 100% of the time, a BIG ROLL OF THE EYES. We don't take you seriously, and we would love for nothing more than the MM to completely backfire to your idealogy. And we will be there for that day of infamy. It's gonna be BIBLICAL!!!!

According to my match data, you might be happy to know that a defenseless 9 now weighs the same as a max th7 on defense at least. SC may be slowly tweaking the MM to fix defenseless bases. I'm curious what a defenseless 11 weighs now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperStorm103

According to my match data, you might be happy to know that a defenseless 9 now weighs the same as a max th7 on defense at least. SC may be slowly tweaking the MM to fix defenseless bases. I'm curious what a defenseless 11 weighs now.

---

Not good enough my man. Th7's have been defenseless against drags since the beginning of time, even with the addition of the 3rd ad. So now the only difference is that the defenseless th9 can still mop up any max th8 and some baby th9's, maybe even a medium th9 if not setup properly, TWICE. Which a th7 has no shot to do. So, no incentive to stay at th7 and max out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daddylindo

Not good enough my man. Th7's have been defenseless against drags since the beginning of time, even with the addition of the 3rd ad. So now the only difference is that the defenseless th9 can still mop up any max th8 and some baby th9's, maybe even a medium th9 if not setup properly, TWICE. Which a th7 has no shot to do. So, no incentive to stay at th7 and max out.

---

Yeah bro, but it is a start. They might be slowly progressing towards figuring out the key weight. If they can give defenseless accounts enough dead weight, that would allow the opposing clan more room for more offense or even more defense. There by putting a hit on roster engineering. Also, shifting the balance in the current rare unwinnable match situation. Making it harder for the roster engineers to get a perfect war, or making it more likely for a draw situation. If roster engineering eventually guarantees a draw with a solid opposing clan, It might die out on its own. We will see! Stay cool Daddy!

The problem is though with the majority of players being average attackers, (not every clan is loaded with solid attackers like your clan daddyL) if they win 2 out of 3 it may still validate roster engineering. I really do feel that that is the biggest reason for light defense villages is a huge amount of attackers can't deal with villages that are missing a few key defenses. It is just commonly realized that you can use that defense weight to add to your offense. I have seen many th9's with 20/20+ heroes fail an 8.5.

There are clans dedicated to war that use that flexibility to roster engineer and there are mom and pop clans that use that flexibility to structure their clan to help with clan members that aren't solid attackers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperStorm103

The problem is though with the majority of players being average attackers, (not every clan is loaded with solid attackers like your clan daddyL) if they win 2 out of 3 it may still validate roster engineering. I really do feel that that is the biggest reason for light defense villages. Such a huge amount of attackers can't deal with villages that are missing a few key defenses. It is just commonly realized that you can use that defense weight to add to your offense. I have seen many fails of th9's with 20/20+ heroes fail an 8.5.

---

Superstorm, Im patiently waiting. And youre quietly working your way up to being my favorite engineer lol... may take kingkreg's spot soon enough :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daddylindo

Superstorm, Im patiently waiting. And youre quietly working your way up to being my favorite engineer lol... may take kingkreg's spot soon enough :)

---

That is the main reason my accounts are .5's and non defenseless mini's. We have several th9's approaching max in my family clan that just like dragons and that is all they use or want to use. So they attack the th8's while I take my lower bases and pick up the base they should be able to 3 star. I do consider myself an above average attacker, and can make due with lower offense levels. Which equates to my offense going with the th9's defense and the th9's (leveled offense used by a non elite attacker skill) going with my lower defense village. Kind of hard to explain actually. But it seems to be working. We are on a 3 win streak in my family clan lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperStorm103

The problem is though with the majority of players being average attackers, (not every clan is loaded with solid attackers like your clan daddyL) if they win 2 out of 3 it may still validate roster engineering. I really do feel that that is the biggest reason for light defense villages is a huge amount of attackers can't deal with villages that are missing a few key defenses. It is just commonly realized that you can use that defense weight to add to your offense. I have seen many th9's with 20/20+ heroes fail an 8.5.

There are clans dedicated to war that use that flexibility to roster engineer and there are mom and pop clans that use that flexibility to structure their clan to help with clan members that aren't solid attackers.

---

Given my experience I would say the former is more prevalent. I've said before that it is surprising how many th9 attackers fail on our 8.5, th10 attackers on our 9.5. (Even some th10 attackers on our 8.5, but they have to be kinda terrible.) Admittedly, 7.5 is not a thing. th7 defenses never win against dragon attackers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperStorm103

That is the main reason my accounts are .5's and non defenseless mini's. We have several th9's approaching max in my family clan that just like dragons and that is all they use or want to use. So they attack the th8's while I take my lower bases and pick up the base they should be able to 3 star. I do consider myself an above average attacker, and can make due with lower offense levels. Which equates to my offense going with the th9's defense and the th9's (leveled offense used by a non elite attacker skill) going with my lower defense village. Kind of hard to explain actually. But it seems to be working. We are on a 3 win streak in my family clan lol.

---

Hah our posts crossed or I would've said THIS ^^^ to the most recent one. We are getting better... but a while back we had a max th9 who would use hogs on th8... and not always three star! (During the big bomb bonus damage, but still.) I still think a distinction needs to be drawn between .5 development, which I consider strategic offensive/defensive upgrading--and which most clans do, if you admit my premise--and extreme engineering. We aren't the same.

daddylindo, your bases are more developed than ours. We have plenty of people working towards max th9. You're basically calling us cheaters for being less advanced at th9 than your clan is. Seems a little harsh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperStorm103

The problem is though with the majority of players being average attackers, (not every clan is loaded with solid attackers like your clan daddyL) if they win 2 out of 3 it may still validate roster engineering. I really do feel that that is the biggest reason for light defense villages is a huge amount of attackers can't deal with villages that are missing a few key defenses. It is just commonly realized that you can use that defense weight to add to your offense. I have seen many th9's with 20/20+ heroes fail an 8.5.

There are clans dedicated to war that use that flexibility to roster engineer and there are mom and pop clans that use that flexibility to structure their clan to help with clan members that aren't solid attackers.

---

Well said n this is an example of where principals of engineering is more accepted n makes sense. This type of engineering I feel is more legit n deserves respect whereas other reasons...Yea not so much lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by posthoc

Hah our posts crossed or I would've said THIS ^^^ to the most recent one. We are getting better... but a while back we had a max th9 who would use hogs on th8... and not always three star! (During the big bomb bonus damage, but still.) I still think a distinction needs to be drawn between .5 development, which I consider strategic offensive/defensive upgrading--and which most clans do, if you admit my premise--and extreme engineering. We aren't the same.

daddylindo, your bases are more developed than ours. We have plenty of people working towards max th9. You're basically calling us cheaters for being less advanced at th9 than your clan is. Seems a little harsh.

---

I didn't use the word cheater, that's apparently a curse word on the forums. I just dont think it's right for th9's with 45+ heroes walking around without xbows. The upgrade time is massive for those type of heroes. You should be a good attacker and have grade A troops by then if youre warring everyother night. So when the MM looks at a clan of 15 th9's without xbows, they gotta skim weight off each base and then it's supposed to find a fair match?? Again, most people have 4 or 5 builders, when you jump town halls you want to do the camps, spell, lab, cc first ... i get it. Thats what we do. But this blatant negation of xbows, infernos, eagle for many many months, it's creating a situation of low level play. Big troops and big heroes are well equipped to handle these defenses, throw em down, design your base and duke it out. If engineers are doing this because they are afraid of being over-matched by another engineered clan, then that just seems like a situation that was artificially created in the first place. Throw the defenses down and we're all in the same boat. Let the total destruction feature shine for the non-perfect wars.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperStorm103

That is the main reason my accounts are .5's and non defenseless mini's. We have several th9's approaching max in my family clan that just like dragons and that is all they use or want to use. So they attack the th8's while I take my lower bases and pick up the base they should be able to 3 star. I do consider myself an above average attacker, and can make due with lower offense levels. Which equates to my offense going with the th9's defense and the th9's (leveled offense used by a non elite attacker skill) going with my lower defense village. Kind of hard to explain actually. But it seems to be working. We are on a 3 win streak in my family clan lol.

---

Wow, I thought I was the only one who built my base for these reasons.

The TH10 in my clan with level 4 xbows, skull walls and 13/15 heroes has two level 3 infernos that should be on my base. I however posses the offense that he should have. So in a way it evens out :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperStorm103

According to my match data, you might be happy to know that a defenseless 9 now weighs the same as a max th7 on defense at least. SC may be slowly tweaking the MM to fix defenseless bases. I'm curious what a defenseless 11 weighs now.

---

SC has me confused. Okay, need to clarify a few things in this comment:

A th9 with default cannon has a 30K base weight. (not the same as a max town hall 7)
A th9 with default cannon + 2 lvl 1 wiz towers has a base weight of 26k (how does that work?)
A th11 with default Cannon has a base weight of 42k (can't see war details anymore, but possible he had 4 teslas)

I think it is safe to say that SC is tinkering with base weights. Sorry for the erroneous data. But it is confusing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daddylindo

Not good enough my man. Th7's have been defenseless against drags since the beginning of time, even with the addition of the 3rd ad. So now the only difference is that the defenseless th9 can still mop up any max th8 and some baby th9's, maybe even a medium th9 if not setup properly, TWICE. Which a th7 has no shot to do. So, no incentive to stay at th7 and max out.

---

I'm not rushing my #4 account to th9, but only because I don't play it that much. If/when I get more active on that + my others I'll probably rush them all to th9 then get them caught up. There's just so much to do while upgrading heroes, anyway, you could easily go from mid th7 to th9 and still have idle builders for a long time before your heroes get to 30/30.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OnyxDS

Neither clan had defences - look at the inferno count in OP's post.



Seeing as the enemy had no bases at all theoretically capable of defending against any of your top 3 attackers (assuming there was no eagle in with the 2 infernos), you can hardly call it a mismatch. The mismatches people are complaining about are when the enemy has a top base 1 or 2 full TH in excess of their strongest offence.

And, yes, it's possible to win hideous mismatches - but only really due to the stupidity of the enemy. I've seen plenty of TH11 vs TH9 attacks fail; especially just after the October update when I watched 2 hugely engineered chinese clan spam away with miners, thus losing their longish win streaks. BUT - the key point is it relies on the stupidity of the enemy; there's little you can do when the enemy can TH dip every single attack against you, and it's physically impossible for you to clear their top base.

---

Pretty much sums up a true mismatch. Great post as always Onyx

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperStorm103

SC has me confused. Okay, need to clarify a few things in this comment:

A th9 with default cannon has a 30K base weight. (not the same as a max town hall 7)
A th9 with default cannon + 2 lvl 1 wiz towers has a base weight of 26k (how does that work?)
A th11 with default Cannon has a base weight of 42k (can't see war details anymore, but possible he had 4 teslas)

I think it is safe to say that SC is tinkering with base weights. Sorry for the erroneous data. But it is confusing.

---

not sure where your numbers are from. We have a lvl 1 cannon, 20-15-20 th11, with 4 max Teslas. Def. weight 38k. Mainly lvl 9 walls

other lvl 1 cannon, th11, 11-17-8, no walls no other defense. Def weight 21k

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperStorm103

SC has me confused. Okay, need to clarify a few things in this comment:

A th9 with default cannon has a 30K base weight. (not the same as a max town hall 7)
A th9 with default cannon + 2 lvl 1 wiz towers has a base weight of 26k (how does that work?)
A th11 with default Cannon has a base weight of 42k (can't see war details anymore, but possible he had 4 teslas)

I think it is safe to say that SC is tinkering with base weights. Sorry for the erroneous data. But it is confusing.

---

Heroes count as defences (and also count towards offence). And walls count - I've seen one or two defenceless bases with walls. And traps - if you're looking at an enemy base there could be any number of traps.

Usually the high weights of around ~30k mean 3 decent heroes. The GW in particular has a surprisingly high defence weight.

I'm pretty sure you'll find a true 1 cannon base with no heroes or traps or walls is still just the 0.5k for the cannon even if it had max TH11 troops. Of course you don't see that tested very often...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MossackFonseca

I'm not rushing my #4 account to th9, but only because I don't play it that much. If/when I get more active on that + my others I'll probably rush them all to th9 then get them caught up. There's just so much to do while upgrading heroes, anyway, you could easily go from mid th7 to th9 and still have idle builders for a long time before your heroes get to 30/30.

---

Not really, i played only for 14 months, not far from u Mossack, if u rushed to TH9 immediately like what i did with 3 of my main accounts, I have all 5 builders busy most of the time, and I maxed my TH9 30/30 before 12 months and my defense was not maxed, and now at 14 months I maxed 2 of my TH10 at 40/40 and 39/38 and yet all my builder still busy upgrading defense

So the moral of the story is you can win if the enemy isn't good or gives up. Lol. I'm sure Disney will be contacting you to put your courageous tale on film to be released in Hollywood.