Why matchmaking needs a fix sooner rather than later

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Originally Posted by topbtm

News for for you: the MM will never ever be perfect to the liking of some complainers here. This whole engineering is still up to the debate because losing clans can no longer blame the modders anymore. And since blaming their lack of skill is out of the question, the most logical culprit is the match maker.

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aggreededx10000000000

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Originally Posted by topbtm

Yup, if only you truely know the real 'potential' power of offenseless bases...then again I think this high level mm knowledge may be a bit beyond your grasp...:)

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Topbtm, are you sure, you're not even a distant relation of Tango Fever from the Martians? It's just.....well.....uncanny...😀

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Originally Posted by topbtm

Yup, if only you truely know the real 'potential' power of offenseless bases...then again I think this high level mm knowledge may be a bit beyond your grasp...:)

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Yup, if only he truly* knew the real 'potential' power of spelling..then again I think this high level of spelling knowledge may be a bit beyond your grasp...=)

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

Looking at your clan I see several .5s. The lv 20 warden without an eagle jumps out for example, but I see 3 and I only looked at half the roster. I see a huge th range, there's a defenseless at the bottom too. So if I come check what you brought to war, will I see any of these in the war? Because when you say "we did all this", I'm wondering if in fact you did ANY of it. I don't judge you at all if you did, everyone can play as they like. I just don't want misinformation here about how to get fair matches, the advice above is pretty solid.

Can MM be improved? Perhaps. If so, perhaps SC will do it (or maybe they'll screw it up, or maybe they'll keep it as is because they think it will net more gems). But nothing will be decided here, this is a user forum. We should talk about what WE can do here. If you want to send a message to SC, try Western Union.

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You are welcome to come by and see what's in war. Some accounts you see in the clan are minis, or experimental accounts and none are in war. Only 2 bases aren't full blown TH versions, ones a fairly new TH 10, so obviously no Infernos yet, but doesn't have much done yet offensively to be fair. The other is a 10.5, that has been in just a few wars recently. I can assure you that account didn't cause us to find 3 extra TH 11's than we have in a 20 man war, also considering the opponent has multiple TH 11's with and without EA's and hero just as equal as ours.

As far as a message to SC, IMO the clash community over the last year or so has drastically decreased, especially as far as major YouTubers and such go. Those were the voice for the community, now that voice is also gone, so IMO they (SC) hear very little from us other than what they see on the forums, and TBH we're a small portion of the player base.

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Originally Posted by dorsan

Here is out current war:

our team:
1. th9 20/25 - maxed defenses
2. th10 10/8 - maxed th9 point defenses, th9 army but got 1 extra spell unlocked
3. th9 10/8 - halfway maxed th9 defenses, both x-bows level 3
4. th10 10/5 - maxed th9 defenses, no x-bows or infernos, th9 army but got 1 extra spell unlocked
5. th8
6. th8
7. th8
8. th10 5/5 - th7 defenses, th8 troop levels, th9 army sots, th10 spell slots, heal maxed, jump level 2
9. th7
10. th9 5/0 - all point defenses down (~th5 levels), no x-bows, infernos or splash built, 4 lightning + eq and drags unlocked

enemy team:
1. th9 9/11 - maxed defenses
2. th9 10/10 - maxed defenses
3. th9 9/7 - maxed defenses
4. th9 6/5 - th8 defenses and th8 army
5. th8
6. th8
7. th8
8. th8
9. th9 13/10 - th8 troop levels, th9 troop and spell slots, no defenses apart from x-bows
10. th5

Our #2 and #4 can take out enemy 1-4 without any effort.
Our #3 can take out enemy 5 and 6 without any effort
Our #8 can take out enemy 7 and 8 without any effort
Our #10 can take out enemy 9 and 10 without any effort

We still got 2 full th9 attacks from #1 and are already at a perfect war with zero effort.

The best the enemy clan can do is to get a draw and they need to take out a maxed th9 base with low level royals.


I would say this is a pretty unfair matchup.

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Thanks for posting Dorsan.
I can't speak for others, but it's rare that I 'see' matches posted like yours, so it's very interesting seeing low level hero matches.


One thing that stood out for me, was that all your 3 TH10's (9.25s / rushed / premmie / engineered / enter definition here) bases had the extra spell slot.

The following thread from Humbob came to mind :-


https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...92#post9248392

And I quote :-

"-the offensive weight of spells may have been reduced"

Just an afterthought after reading your post, cheers for sharing!:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Skrags

Topbtm, are you sure, you're not even a distant relation of Tango Fever from the Martians? It's just.....well.....uncanny...

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I had the same thought yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Skrags

Topbtm, are you sure, you're not even a distant relation of Tango Fever from the Martians? It's just.....well.....uncanny...😀

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I tried to join that clan myself but it is always closed.

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Originally Posted by Millerman78

You are welcome to come by and see what's in war. Some accounts you see in the clan are minis, or experimental accounts and none are in war. Only 2 bases aren't full blown TH versions, ones a fairly new TH 10, so obviously no Infernos yet, but doesn't have much done yet offensively to be fair. The other is a 10.5, that has been in just a few wars recently. I can assure you that account didn't cause us to find 3 extra TH 11's than we have in a 20 man war, also considering the opponent has multiple TH 11's with and without EA's and hero just as equal as ours.

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Again I stated "Don't bring more than a three TH range, don't bring anything under th8, don't bring lopsided bases yourself (long term .5s, defenseless, etc)" and you'll rarely see engineered opponents. You said you already do these things, but it sounds like you don't. The MM doesn't care how long your 10.5 has been warring, it cares if you get lopsided by dropping heavy offense without heavy defense. It doesn't care how recently your other 10.5 joined up, it cares if its lopsided.

I'm not judging or making a moral case against your clan, not saying you deserve a horrible match. I consider engineering fair game. But there's a strong correlation since October between 1. bringing lopsided accounts to war and 2. getting wild matchups, including versus clans that engineer a lot harder than you.
There's also a strong correlation between bringing th7s and ending up with engineered opponents. I think these are the key takeaways from the epic thread on the issue - https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...mpetitive-wars

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Originally Posted by Skrags

Hello,
So many points here.
Firstly I would suggest reading posts on the Clan Wars sub forum, as there you will find lots of interesting opinions and help.

For example, to help avoid engineers, I would possibly read the following thread :-

https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...mpetitive-wars

I have highlighted some of your post. This suggestion seems to be proposed quite often on the forum, and I'm afraid it just won't work, and I'm a player who likes to 'max' his base. But even I can see the major flaws in this idea.

I would also add the following :-

Since the October update, most of our matches have been fair, and we rarely match engineers!:)

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Originally Posted by Skrags

Quite the opposite in my opinion. If you include engineers in your clan, you are 'more likely' to match other engineers.

Again, check out the link in the thread I posted above.

Just to clarify, I've been advocating balanced bases within a balanced roster for a year now, and we 'rarely' match engineers!:thumbsup:

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Yeah, don't engage in roster engineering of your own and you're quite unlikely to match up with engineers, yourself. The caveat? You can't let your little brother and his 3 friends with their th4's participate in your th8-10 wars, and it's important to know that you're going to face progressively tougher mismatches if you win a bunch of wars in a row.

My clan hasn't been as even and balanced as Skrags', but since we put down our infernos and (mostly) xbows we have had 17 "fair" wars in a row, with many of them being exact th for th matches in 10, 15, and 20 man wars.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

But your solution of minimum weight does nothing to affect the more powerful engineering at the moment - the TH3s on the bottom to skew the total. Lopsided bases are themselves no advantage since October. What is an advantage is having some zero defence bases - they could be defenceless bases or just TH3s. Quite often it's defenceless, because that's what the engineers were using before October. But applying minimum TH weights just means the engineers swap out the defenceless for a TH3.

So in trying to fix lopsidedness you are trying to solve something that has been much improved already and just distracts from the actual problem - how a very weak bottom end of the roster allows excess strength at the top, which can give an overwhelming advantage.

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It's looking like the December patch did a lot of damage to the "dump a bunch of th3's at the bottom of an otherwise balanced roster" plan by correctly putting them in with all of the other roster engineers. I think that's been the source of much of the complaining lately.

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Originally Posted by Millerman78

That TH 3 wouldn't be crushing TH 9's like those defenseless 11's are, that I'm sure of.

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Originally Posted by Millerman78

Yea, because they have been great at that, only took 2 years to crack down on modding.

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I do not recall the last time my clan ran into an opponent with a defenseless 11. We were surprised to run into a clan 10 days ago that had a th11 sitting at the bottom of their 10's in fact, and that was after we'd won 9 in a row.

What does your roster look like? Do you have any .5's? Any lowbies dumped on the bottom? Big spread of war weights across your roster? Are you on a big winning streak?

There are many reasons that clans match up with heavily engineered clans, knowing why you got that match can help you to avoid it in the future.

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Originally Posted by AFrostyBlaze

i visited OP's clan and saw that this match up is indeed in their opponents favor however it is still winnable if the other clan messes up.

OP's opponents th11s have good offense but only two of them have eagle, one of which with lv 3 infernos. the other th11s just have close to max th11 point defenses. the rest of the map past the 5 th11s up top were th9 or worse defensively with a couple engineered 10s in the mix if i remember right.

another thing to note is that OP's clan is also on a 10 win streak which will no doubt cause the system to dislike you.

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I think that a big winning streak will eventually, once it gets big enough, be the biggest war weight penalty that you can have. How many terrible matchups did goat herd get after our 10 win streak? I think that it was 3 out of 4 wars that were pretty close to unwinnable for us. Getting a "pretty unfair but ultimately winnable" matchup after winning 10 in a row seems about par for the course in my experience, even if you are otherwise a very well-balanced clan.

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Originally Posted by dorsan

I gave up on waiting for SC to fix anything.

When the number of engineered opponents went above 50% of us (th7-th9 wars), we started to do it ourselves. When they fix it, we'll just go back to normal setup again.

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Come do a couple of wars with us, or with skrags, or with johnnysullivan, or Billius, etc etc etc. There are plenty of us who just don't match up with engineers at all anymore. However, as long as your clan is engineered these days you're going to overwhelmingly match with other engineers.