Engineered bases long term effect

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Originally Posted by daddylindo

I get a strong feeling that about 95% of the daily users on here are engineers, especially the constant commentators. They've visited my clan before to look at a matchup that I complained about, and then I look at their base and its the same old story, a non-defensively strong underdeveloped base. It's like a grief counseling center here. People come here to grieve, and the game specialists are their grief counselors. Instead of the engineers downplaying the people with legitimate gripes, how come there are no representatives from SC that actually have say in what direction the game goes in on here? Its the same ole same ole everyday, all this talking and nothing gets done, constantly running in circles. If the game is perfect, then there's no reason for the same engineers to be on here trolling everyone everyday. Just enjoy the 'perfect' mm system you claim it to be. Getting old now. I feel less enthusiastic about the game now, and these forums are a small part of why.

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The rancor seems unwarranted... Full disclosure, I was one of those who recently asked to come take a look at daddylindo's clan, and offered as a courtesy the same privilege regarding my own clan. Yes, we do a fair amount of .5 base-building. It doesn't guarantee us wins--if anything, it sharpens our attack skills, since I've been quite consistent saying here that we typically draw a defensive disadvantage and an offensive advantage. Also, most of us have nonmax heroes, and others on this forum--including you, IIRC--have given a pass to "engineering" our upgrades to prioritize heroes.

And if you say I'm just stacking offense and neglecting d?

* My max th9.5 can get bulldozed by th11 attackers, but not by th10; my (often faulty) memory suggests it is better than 50% against other th10 attackers. Donate Spirit had some of the best attackers we'd faced in quite some time, and yet left an open star there.

* My max 8.5 does not get three-starred routinely by th9 attackers. I'd estimate failure rate at around 40%, although again I should probably start keeping track and coming up with hard numbers.

* My weirdo all point d "8.5" base always holds off th8 air attackers; almost always th8 ground and th9 air attackers; sometimes even draws a two star from th9 ground attackers.

These are purely defensive statistics I'm citing. Point being that I consider .5 upgrade path viable not only offensively but defensively. If your clan routinely three stars every .5 you see, more power to you. But again, Onyx's clan didn't manage it, and they have some serious attack chops.

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Originally Posted by posthoc

The rancor seems unwarranted... Full disclosure, I was one of those who recently asked to come take a look at daddylindo's clan, and offered as a courtesy the same privilege regarding my own clan. Yes, we do a fair amount of .5 base-building. It doesn't guarantee us wins--if anything, it sharpens our attack skills, since I've been quite consistent saying here that we typically draw a defensive disadvantage and an offensive advantage. Also, most of us have nonmax heroes, and others on this forum--including you, IIRC--have given a pass to "engineering" our upgrades to prioritize heroes.

And if you say I'm just stacking offense and neglecting d?

* My max th9.5 can get bulldozed by th11 attackers, but not by th10; my (often faulty) memory suggests it is better than 50% against other th10 attackers. Donate Spirit had some of the best attackers we'd faced in quite some time, and yet left an open star there.

* My max 8.5 does not get three-starred routinely by th9 attackers. I'd estimate failure rate at around 40%, although again I should probably start keeping track and coming up with hard numbers.

* My weirdo all point d "8.5" base always holds off th8 air attackers; almost always th8 ground and th9 air attackers; sometimes even draws a two star from th9 ground attackers.

These are purely defensive statistics I'm citing. Point being that I consider .5 upgrade path viable not only offensively but defensively. If your clan routinely three stars every .5 you see, more power to you. But again, Onyx's clan didn't manage it, and they have some serious attack chops.

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May I try? Im a ok attacker n wanna c if im as good as I think I am (might not b lol) I feel I can three any .5 if its same th lv n esp if I have higher th. Just in case im not clear: if u have a 8.5, I should b able to three it easy with my th9

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Originally Posted by daddylindo8

I get a strong feeling that about 95% of the daily users on here are engineers, especially the constant commentators. They've visited my clan before to look at a matchup that I complained about, and then I look at their base and its the same old story, a non-defensively strong underdeveloped base. It's like a grief counseling center here. People come here to grieve, and the game specialists are their grief counselors. Instead of the engineers downplaying the people with legitimate gripes, how come there are no representatives from SC that actually have say in what direction the game goes in on here? Its the same ole same ole everyday, all this talking and nothing gets done, constantly running in circles. If the game is perfect, then there's no reason for the same engineers to be on here trolling everyone everyday. Just enjoy the 'perfect' mm system you claim it to be. Getting old now. I feel less enthusiastic about the game now, and these forums are a small part of why

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I'd like to know why do you think that a perfect mm should reward maxers?
Is there a bible that talk about the way the game should be played? As far as i know there are no representatives from SC that say the game is intended to be play in the maxer way.
The fact that an huge part of the players are occasional and they play in an "instinctive" way upgrading both defense and offense at the same level doesn't mean anything. The mechanics of the game are known, just play according to them.

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Originally Posted by d112

I'd like to know why do you think that a perfect mm should reward maxers?
Is there a bible that talk about the way the game should be played? As far as i know there are no representatives from SC that say the game is intended to be play in the maxer way.
The fact that an huge part of the players are occasional and they play in an "instinctive" way upgrading both defense and offense at the same level doesn't mean anything. The mechanics of the game are known, just play according to them.

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Yeah, why not? Is everyone afraid of high level of play? Are you afraid that the rest of your clan wont pull their weight if you are one of the few good attackers? What about TRUE leaders teaching and showing the less experienced players in their clan the way (Like I do)? Why is it right that war manipulaters pull my clan into a war against too many high powered offenses that we should've never faced? And then the real manipulated wars it basically eliminates everyone in the clan except the very tops, which is also not right. So, it's ruining the war experience.

And to posthoc, I can tell you this now, your 8.5's stand NO SHOT against my 9's. That 3 star rate would be 100%. But this is just what engineering does, you are not drawing the cream of the crop. I go to engineered clans and i see the soft skull-walled low teenage heroed bases they draw... boring.

I guess I'll just wait til we're all max th11's in 3 years to not have to worry about engineering... hopefully the game wont be dead by then.

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Originally Posted by d112

I'd like to know why do you think that a perfect mm should reward maxers?
Is there a bible that talk about the way the game should be played? As far as i know there are no representatives from SC that say the game is intended to be play in the maxer way.
The fact that an huge part of the players are occasional and they play in an "instinctive" way upgrading both defense and offense at the same level doesn't mean anything. The mechanics of the game are known, just play according to them.

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The two most common reasons are, first, to make what is good for multiplayer also be good for war so that the same upgrade path is good for both things on one account. The second common reason stated is because war wasn't originally part of this game so there are a lot of players that were on the maxer path due to multiplayer and then suddenly war was dropped, so it is "unfair" to those players that already developed their base prior to war. A third point I've heard recently is because engineers can change their base to accommodate a change to favor maxing, but maxers cannot delete structures so they cannot revert their accounts to become engineered. Note, I'm not saying there are no counter arguments to these. I'm just trying to answer your question, even though it wasn't posed to me.

2222, I've heard you mention this before, that what is good for multiplayer should be good for war as well. (First off I assume this refers only to trophy pushing, since farming bears little relation to either.)

Has SuperCell made a statement indicating that this is a goal of theirs? I never really saw the connection honestly, but then again I am not a high-level player. If anything, the (relatively recently added) ability to keep separate war and nonwar bases would seem to cater to not only farmers, but folks who think trophy pushing is separate from war.

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Originally Posted by 2222

The two most common reasons are, first, to make what is good for multiplayer also be good for war so that the same upgrade path is good for both things on one account. The second common reason stated is because war wasn't originally part of this game so there are a lot of players that were on the maxer path due to multiplayer and then suddenly war was dropped, so it is "unfair" to those players that already developed their base prior to war. A third point I've heard recently is because engineers can change their base to accommodate a change to favor maxing, but maxers cannot delete structures so they cannot revert their accounts to become engineered. Note, I'm not saying there are no counter arguments to these. I'm just trying to answer your question, even though it wasn't posed to me.

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In some MMOs and RPGs this isnt so. Also, in many other MMMos and RPGs online, plus MOBAS, shooters and RTS nerfs happen all the time. You can't expect maxers to be the only good playstyle after so many years, so I see nothing unfair on it. You main Morgana Mid in LoL and did so for a year, too bad we nerfed her and shes not good anymore. Been using the BKGA since DS came out, too bad its been nerfed now. You use the Honey Badger because it has a silence and the range of an AR but the run speed of a SMG, nerfed.

This is how many games operate. To think its unfair because it was available since the beginning is not a solid reason as to why it should be best. Players can start new accounts but they don't want too since its much easier to come into the forum and beg the game developers to nerf everything. The problem is not even about engineering, its about the attitude the community has towards CoC and modern games in general. Before, prior to developers being able to update games you had to play it the way it was and if something was overpowered you either adapted and beat it or just quit the game and looked for something else. Nowadays all games are filled with "nerf threads" because people simply don't want to try anything. The recent Patron Nerf in Hearthstone is a perfect example.

I even saw a "nerf ballon thread" or two after 1 day of the update coming out. Ballons just got buffed and instead of building better bases lets ask for a nerf, because god forbid I try to make a stronger base or to adapt to a new playstyle. If you, and by you I mean the players since I have nothing against 2222, dont want to try engineering yourself alrhough you know how to, don't want to roster engineer, don't want to try a less spread out war roster or simply don't want to the suggestions here I don't know what to say. Engineers are playing to win and they are darn good at it since we see anti engineer threads every day on the forums. It doesnt matter if they bully, if we dont like it, if its cheesy or "unfair". Engineering is available to everyone and it would be nice if we actually tried to play to win instead of sitting in the comfort of the forum asking for nerfs.

They know how the MM works the same way a player knows the fps of a fighting game and picks the best character to win, even if its "cheap". Ryu from Street Fighter spamming hodukens until you die ... find the counter or lose all your matches.

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Originally Posted by LittleMoon

In some MMOs and RPGs this isnt so. Also, in many other MMMos and RPGs online, plus MOBAS, shooters and RTS nerfs happen all the time. You can't expect maxers to be the only good playstyle after so many years, so I see nothing unfair on it. You main Morgana Mid in LoL and did so for a year, too bad we nerfed her and shes not good anymore. Been using the BKGA since DS came out, too bad its been nerfed now. You use the Honey Badger because it has a silence and the range of an AR but the run speed of a SMG, nerfed.

This is how many games operate. To think its unfair because it was available since the beginning is not a solid reason as to why it should be best. Players can start new accounts but they don't want too since its much easier to come into the forum and beg the game developers to nerf everything. The problem is not even about engineering, its about the attitude the community has towards CoC and modern games in general. Before, prior to developers being able to update games you had to play it the way it was and if something was overpowered you either adapted and beat it or just quit the game and looked for something else. Nowadays all games are filled with "nerf threads" because people simply don't want to try anything. The recent Patron Nerf in Hearthstone is a perfect example.

I even saw a "nerf ballon thread" or two after 1 day of the update coming out. Ballons just got buffed and instead of building better bases lets ask for a nerf, because god forbid I try to make a stronger base or to adapt to a new playstyle. If you, and by you I mean the players since I have nothing against 2222, dont want to try engineering yourself alrhough you know how to, don't want to roster engineer, don't want to try a less spread out war roster or simply don't want to the suggestions here I don't know what to say. Engineers are playing to win and they are darn good at it since we see anti engineer threads every day on the forums. It doesnt matter if they bully, if we dont like it, if its cheesy or "unfair". Engineering is available to everyone and it would be nice if we actually tried to play to win instead of sitting in the comfort of the forum asking for nerfs.

They know how the MM works the same way a player knows the fps of a fighting game and picks the best character to win, even if its "cheap". Ryu from Street Fighter spamming hodukens until you die ... find the counter or lose all your matches.

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Good luck building an anti air base lol. Th9 will be dead soon. SC knows maybe the game is on its last leg, trying to get everyone to th10 and 11 in a money squeeze. Th9's aint stopping loons without a nerf.

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Originally Posted by daddylindo

Good luck building an anti air base lol. Th9 will be dead soon. SC knows maybe the game is on its last leg, trying to get everyone to th10 and 11 in a money squeeze. Th9's aint stopping loons without a nerf.

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Who cares about th9 ? After reading all that thats what you concluded. TH9 is the new th8. Don't feel so entitled.

Good way to ignore every other point though. I'm refering to th10-11 on that example since talking about th9 is like talking about th8 last year prior to th11.

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Originally Posted by LittleMoon

In some MMOs and RPGs this isnt so. Also, in many other MMMos and RPGs online, plus MOBAS, shooters and RTS nerfs happen all the time. You can't expect maxers to be the only good playstyle after so many years, so I see nothing unfair on it. You main Morgana Mid in LoL and did so for a year, too bad we nerfed her and shes not good anymore. Been using the BKGA since DS came out, too bad its been nerfed now. You use the Honey Badger because it has a silence and the range of an AR but the run speed of a SMG, nerfed.

This is how many games operate. To think its unfair because it was available since the beginning is not a solid reason as to why it should be best. Players can start new accounts but they don't want too since its much easier to come into the forum and beg the game developers to nerf everything. The problem is not even about engineering, its about the attitude the community has towards CoC and modern games in general. Before, prior to developers being able to update games you had to play it the way it was and if something was overpowered you either adapted and beat it or just quit the game and looked for something else. Nowadays all games are filled with "nerf threads" because people simply don't want to try anything. The recent Patron Nerf in Hearthstone is a perfect example.

I even saw a "nerf ballon thread" or two after 1 day of the update coming out. Ballons just got buffed and instead of building better bases lets ask for a nerf, because god forbid I try to make a stronger base or to adapt to a new playstyle. If you, and by you I mean the players since I have nothing against 2222, dont want to try engineering yourself alrhough you know how to, don't want to roster engineer, don't want to try a less spread out war roster or simply don't want to the suggestions here I don't know what to say. Engineers are playing to win and they are darn good at it since we see anti engineer threads every day on the forums. It doesnt matter if they bully, if we dont like it, if its cheesy or "unfair". Engineering is available to everyone and it would be nice if we actually tried to play to win instead of sitting in the comfort of the forum asking for nerfs.

They know how the MM works the same way a player knows the fps of a fighting game and picks the best character to win, even if its "cheap". Ryu from Street Fighter spamming hodukens until you die ... find the counter or lose all your matches.

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Exactly how I feel.