Just retire already
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Just retire already
That was so deep n enlightening. Ty for sharing that. I feel so much wiser n free now. Love u too boo boo lolQuote:
Originally Posted by RZATX45
Glad I made your dayQuote:
Originally Posted by kimchilove
I c ur new. Assuming ur old acct got banned. Shame =( gl with this one tho =)Quote:
Originally Posted by RZATX45
Thank you boo
Lmaooooo should have known it was u. Well played sir haha. If I retire what else can I do to occupy my no life? Sigh. Cries in pillowQuote:
Originally Posted by RZATX45
The RZ on my name didn't give u a clue? Come on broo you must have many frienemysQuote:
Originally Posted by kimchilove
Dude im not sherlock holmes. Take yo clues elsewhere mang. XD n u my one n only tru frenemy boo boo dw. KissesQuote:
Originally Posted by RZATX45
Thank you for this information. So there is no war weight penalty for walls, traps and teslas? how about the original cannon? did you upgrade that too? how many builder huts?
There is weight for all of these things except the huts (maybe even there, but if so too small to notice). There's also offense weight which will make the account a lot less dominating than you think, possibly even counterproductive.Quote:
Originally Posted by mahalleinir
No doubt. There r weights for those things u mentioned. Sorry but im not type to jot down each n every single number n go into specific details bc...im lazy eh lol. But what I do tho is look at overall pic n try to understand game mechanics n parameters. I only built original cannon from start up game n have 3 builder huts. (Can ug faster if I decided to buy the huts but im in no rush) I think I have a better n clearer overall pic of war mm now but still gonna experiment more. I still think sc did good job of reconfiguring war mm.Quote:
Originally Posted by mahalleinir
conspiracy theory the beginning.....
Maybe sc intentionally made war mm where they rewarded high offense bc they wanted people to focus more on offense since so many have more ug def than offense. Everyone knows its easier to ug def over offense. This will naturally push offense to match def n wham, sc changes war mm to take away offense advantage (which it seems like they kind of did already). Mind blown. Kabloom
Musings of a maxer:
strongly thinking if I should make my 8.5 a 8.75 (th10 with th8 def). Hmmm another question to answer
1.did chicken or egg come first?
2. Who let the dawgs out?
3. Should I make a 8.75?
8.5 will draw early 9, 8.75 will draw near max 9 or premmie TH10, to me 8.75 is better, especially if sitting in the middle of roster, but a splashless base maxed point defenses TH10 is even betterQuote:
Originally Posted by kimchilove
Aaa ic. Ty for info dude. Ill check it out n c how it goes. Only reason y im not doing it now is bc I dont wanna farm no more. Lol
Here is what I seen thus far (which isnt much btw lol) my 8.5 seems to b drawing max def th9 but with lower heroes (still advantage for me bc I can attack twice). My defenseless th6(now but put it in since it was a th3-5) brings in.....aaa who cares its a low th anyways. Anyone knows wars r mostly won on top. So the rumblings seem to b .5 dont bring huge advantages but defenseless do. Lets c although I do agree with this assumption. First focusing on my defenseless n might make my 8.5 a th10 to further its engineering course (im only reluctant to do it now bc I don't wanna farm lol)
Wait till the higher th levels on the defenseless and you will notice if you have a high attack offense you will get matched higher also. ie when I put my defenseless th11 in my main clan we almost always get matched up top with a th10 or th11. Even though the next highest is a th9. The defenseless th11 usually has a th7 for a mirror. If I leave the defenseless th11 out of war which I sometimes to the highest is always a th9 with our highest a th9.
The defenseless th11 doesn't bring an advantage but a disadvantage since a th10 or th11 can usually 3* a th9. When I leave the th11 out It's th9 vs th9. From my example defenseless no longer brings in a "huge" advantage.
An advantage? maybe, sometimes, but no longer huge. My personal belief is that engineering is the new scape goat for why poor attackers lost the war and some come to the forums to complain about it.
I disagree with ur assessment. No offense. Even tho I dont own a defenseless th11 im guessing at worst it will bring in a weak th10 n worst case scenario a very weak th11. It is still an advantage tho bc we all know offense> def. Quick example: we had 3 th10s, 1 max th9 , n a max 8.5. Our roster brought in 5 th10s all with fernos n all bows. To offset their def advantage, we had higher heroes. Guess who won?Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit
I should also mention I dont completely disagree. I do agree the advantages engineers used to get has been nerfed so even if u try to manipulate war mm, sc will now give u a competitive matchup where both sides have chance to win. Although my clan doesnt have many manipulated bases it is hard to have fully factual overall pic but having some does give me a small idea as to what fully engineer clans bring. Its obvious sc did good job reconfiguring war mm but nonetheless still slight advantage goes to engineers imo so far. But it is defo more competitive now. This is y u c so many engineer clans either retire or lost their mojo. Js. Woke em up to reality that hey maybe they were not as good as they thought they were n did in fact relay heavily on huge advantages they used to get when engineering.
No offense taken. I've never said it wasn't an advantage. I only say that it isn't a huge advantage and certainly not as big as many claim. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Whew good =) just having friendly sharing of experiences. Its obvious I have a mindset of a maxer n u a mindset of a engineer (of which none is wrong. Just different styles n both legit) n yes too many whine with outdated claims. Those same claims were valid tho before but now seem to b ridiculous. Sometimes it is hard to let go of the past n once perceptions r made, hard for many to change those views whether it changed. Im a realist tho n dont let my opinions mold me unless those opinions r based on current facts. Even tho I side with mind of a maxer when it comes to fairness of wars, that doesnt make me blind to other side povs unless those povs r silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit
The story continues. Part....whatevs jus gonna spit out war experiences:
Well spun another war putting in bases to manipulate war mm. Once again match has advantage team but not overwhelming.
We have: 1 max th11, max th10, max th9, max 8.5, small th9 wit bows, 2 th8 (one new), 2 th6(one defenseless), 1 th3
They have: 2 th11s wit fernos n ea, 3 th9 (ug def solid to weak but all bows), 2 th8 (ug normally), 1 th7 (normal), 2 th3
Verdict: we gonna whoop them something nice. Def advantage them but offense advantage us n we all know offense wins most of time.
Conclusion(tenative): the more u try to game war mm, the more sc will give u random matches. Fair enuff. Still think sc did gj wit mm. The story continues....lets go
Result of war: as predicted gave em a nice whooping. Looks like my original opinion bout engineers r right even tho sc finally nerfed supreme advantage they used to get. Sorry but still no respect for long ws made esp prior to nerf war mm update. Still think it was super easy n not challenging at all. Sorry to all those who r pro engineers lol. At least now u guys have stronger ground to stand on bc sc did nerf but if done right, advantage still engineers
I'm confused by your last 2 posts. You said from your 1st that you were at a disadvantage on defense but had the advantage on offense. Looking that they had 2 th11 and 3 th9 and you had a th11, a th10, and 3 th9 I would think it would really come down to who attacked better. I don't see where the defenseless th6 or the small th9 (don't know to what level it is engineered or not) had anything to do with the outcome of the war.
It would come down to the th11's and th10. Unless they were really bad at attacking.
I guess I'm trying to find out where you say you had an engineering advantage?
Yes I had advantage thanks to offense (which is what engineers want n to also pull in weaker ths) but my clan wont c full effects of engineering bc im only one doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit
O btw to clear up any misunderstanding. Yes u r right, attacking skills play huge part but advantages engineers had before has been nerfed but still advantage if done right
The story continues.....
Ooo this war not a walkover like other war sweet.
We have: max th11, maxth10, max 9, max 8.5, weak th9 but with bows, 2 th8( 1 new), 2 th6(one defenseless), 1 th5
They have: 1 near max th11, 2 th10 (wit all def trimmings), 2 th9 (one mid n one low), th8, th7, th6, th8(engineer), n th4
Key to this war as always r top bases. In this particular war, base number3 on their side. If I dont three #3 its gonna b a rough ride for us lol. My th9s r pretty much useless in this war. My th11-10 r keys to win. Once again sc did good job with war mm to making this competitive. So far trying to manipulate war mm can b a dangerous game to play if ur whole clan doesnt engineer (n have max bases on top). Still prefer our old ways of puttin in max to heavy weight bases for more stable wars (no lower than th9) regardless looks like sc did well with new war mm. Gj sc!
Ok 8-1 since trying to manipulate war mm. (Keep in mind cant manipulate optimally bc not enuff bases n should b undefeated if I didnt get so overconfident)
Conclusion: if record is like this trying to manipulate wars (more challenging now than before) looks like my original opinions bout engineering r true. The previous argument that it is challenging n takes skills is, im sorry, ridiculous.
I would still say inconclusive till you get a high level defenseless. Are you filling the bottom the th3's? I ask to see how you are manipulating. Remember with your max th11 and th10 you could be winning because you are a superior attack also.
I would agree that a high level defenseless with only select offense would create an advantage I still say based on my experience that a high level defenseless with max bowlers and miners would have very little advantage because of the huge offensive weight it brings.
Keep experimenting and keep posting just don't judge too early.
btw what was your war record prior to trying to manipulate war mm?
Hmmm ok I stand corrected lol. Ok dude wont make conclusions yet n experiment more. If ur defn of high defenseless is th11 lol yea don't think I wanna farm another acct that high lol. I did enuff already lol. I jus wanna war now n catch up bc I missed TONS of wars when it came out. Tbh I jus kind of recently openned up my clan n before didnt take wars seriously. Since I openned up my clan to take n train warrers we been 28-4 (all losses were by one star or percentage pts). Overall we r 34-8. N no we dont have anymore th 3 as we ug. Lowest is th5 which I still consider low th filler. We can't manipulate wars alot bc we dont have enuff bases tbf but still manipulate enuff to get an idea I assume. We only have one defenseless acct n he is th6 going to th7. Not gemming so taking a lil while lolQuote:
Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit
My experience is not conclusive, but we run no ea no inferno th11's at top. Strong 9's, and then low weight dless at bottom. Matchups have gotten a little harder, but we are generally pulling either similar engineered or mid offense, high defense th10's at top, with them trying to add th3,4,5 at bottom. The engineered have been been close wars, but the second group has been walkovers for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit
The more non-engineers try to engineer the more likely they get someone like us and get stomped.
Btw I would love if u want to visit n give us ur opinions bc it seems apparent u have more experience engineering. I just look at overall algorithm n make my judgments from there.
I believe u stomped a lot of clan with this roster, but u will also got perfected easily when any clan has a th10 offense on top, so your clan will have very high winning rate but a tie or lose should be sprinkled here and there, isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripple1972
Sam I just read your clan motto, and it states dont build mortars and little bombs because they are useless in war. You couldn't be any further off with that statement. Do you know how many times well placed little bombs that kill wallbreakers ruined whole attacks? Wallbreakers ruin attacks more than any other troop in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by samratulangi
This is actually so true.Quote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
We always scout any crucial top base by ground and air troops to make sure we don't run into any small or giant bomb at the entry points and our healer on qw will not caught any Seeking air mine, so I expect similar thing from opponentsQuote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
Lol rumors r sc gonna kill off .5 n engineering more by changing mm again. Feel like im wasting my time making a defenseless acct now lol
Heck yea. Loving this match. Although on paper looks like we r disadvantaged we got a good chance to win. Loving the match up.
They have: 2 th11 (one a 10.5), th10, 6 th9 (all with max bows), 5 th8 (ug normally), one engineered th10 at bottom
We have: max th11, 3 th10, 5 th9 (one a 8.5), 3 th8 (one new), th7 (defenseless), th6(new), th5
Conclusion: if u try to manipulate war mm expect to get matched up with other manipulators.
Almost every war we face anywhere between 2-5 TH10's at the top. In our last roughly 50 wars we have been perfected exactly one time. Another engineered clan and we tied them. There are a lot of th10's still doing 4eq mass valks with maxed troops, heroes in the 20 or 30 range. They are just not great attackers.Quote:
Originally Posted by samratulangi
You are are correct though, we are always surprised when it doesn't end in a tie.
That is why having high win rate is easy for lopsided clans, but more then 100 winstreak is totally different game, lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Ripple1972
Lol got matched with sandbaggers but this is what we get for trying to manipulate war mm. Note: dont complain when u urself try to game war mm js
Us:
Th11: max
Th10: max
Th10: mid def with 35/33 heroes
Th9: max
Th8.5: max
Th9: low def wit bows 10/11
Th8: near max
Th6: mid max
Th7: engineered
Th5: no walls
Them:
Th11: near max
Th11: mid def with full eagle,bows,fernos 25/25/11
Th10: near max 35/33
Th10: mid/high def 20/21
Th9: max def 15/15
Th8: near max with pink walls
2 th4
2 th3
Conclusion: I feel they have advantage but not gonna b a baby n complain bc we also tried manipulating war mm so accept consequences.
Result of above war: even tho we won we shouldnt have if they were competent. We both tried manipulating war mm so once again no sense complaining about war mm. Still think sc did good job overall with war mm. Now on to the next victim.....
Meh. You guys are not that engineered, but engineered nevertheless.
However since you are engineered in the end... does that mean that the only reason you guys win is because of engineering?
Lol if u too lazy to read beginnings of this post than im too lazy to explain it to u even if I have crayons. =pQuote:
Originally Posted by Nathandrake2017
You want to engineer. Thats it. That is all I need to read. Since you have now crossed into the dark path, you're clan now has little to no skill and if they win, it is because of manipulation.Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchilove
Uh no duh no? Lol ty mr obvious. Golf claps. Once again if u wanna read thru the novels of posts here lol u will c reason. If not so sorry. Carry on lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Nathandrake2017
Engineer Engineer war log on fireQuote:
Originally Posted by kimchilove
another thing i noticed... when i called out your clan was engineering and said the only reason you win is because of manipulation you showed up to defend yourself.
Yet when 6M tries to defend themselves, you further insult them?
Double standards, double standards everywhere
Lol u giving me a headache now dude. Difference in defending: im not making any outlandish n untrue claims. Shrug. Whistles* n sigh once again im not trying to taunt nor insult. I know harshness of reality makes it sound like that but thats not my purpose. I simply pointed out the ridiculousness of statements like: wars were fair n challenging. We won bc of superior attack/def skill etc. Y r all u pro engineers so defensive yall cant c what is being criticized? LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Nathandrake2017
Sooo do you admit that the only reason you guys win now is because now you guys are engineers and are manipulating the system? Cant have it both ways man... either you are a no skilled manipulator as you say 6M is or you are a saintly maxer with loads of skillQuote:
Originally Posted by kimchilove
Lol smacks forehead. Nevermind. As the great n wise Will Smith once said "parents just dont understand" lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Nathandrake2017
What matchmaker would you guys like to see? Do you want pure parity? If so where is the incentive to upgrade? If somone should get an advantage then who? If you say maxers, why? And how will you prevent perma townhalling if its maxers?
Dang it man. Too many good questions there. Most requiring thoughtful responses. Ill tackle that at another time bc my fingers starting to hurt...(plus im lazy shhh). Very valid n good questions thoQuote:
Originally Posted by Vikingchief
honeslty im not 100% sure myself. anything but parity and your leaving and opening for engineering, but at parity an account with level 2 dragons and infenoes and lev 2 wall without heroes will have the same awesomeness as a account with maxed heroes and walls. And if you make it maxers you will have an epidemic of permabase clans, as well as anyone not maxed not being allowed to join a clan that is decent, which will result in mass quitting (as i acknowledge engineering may also contribute too).Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchilove
i do see the arguments for party, for putting maxers on top, for putting .5 on top, for putting manicured (no mortars, no king etc) and even for putting defencless on top. To decide whats best is very tough indeed.
i do feel the only worthwhile discussion should B the matchmaker, targeting players always ends in hairpulling and namecalling, and can be avoided by having a neutral discussion regarding the matchmaker.
Well said n I too dont know answer but tbf dont think answer is needed tho bc overall sc did good job with war mm imo. Just my experience tho! Not saying this is reality for all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikingchief
its definitely moving closer to parity, but I am starting to see signs of people deliberatly not upgrading heroes, thats a huge red light for me. Same for wall. Those were the 2 really tough and challenging grinds in clash, if they no longer have value, I wonder where the incentive to farm will come from, and if there no farming incentive, activity will decrease to next to nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchilove
if there is no activity, social vibe dies, which has always been the secret sauce to the clash success storey.
Valid points n I can c y u r expressing them. I thought I looked at big pic but u my friend have outdone me lol. I only control what I do bc thats only thing I have control of. Tbh I didnt even think about all those things u said. Would have to ponder on that a bit bc u getting too deep man lol. Cant have quick responses bc ur thoughts n questions r a bit complex lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikingchief
Case closed.Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchilove
The anti engineer is now part of the dark side and only wins because of manipulation
O thank god case is closed. Lol now maybe u will go away...maybe xD if not I need to hire another lawyer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathandrake2017
Oh no we are not done yet. You need to pay a hefty fine for breaking Penal code 07 of the anti engineer rulebook : No engineering allowed.Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchilove
I pays no fine. Im a outlaw dude. RecognizeQuote:
Originally Posted by Nathandrake2017
Ok back to biz on experiment engineer acct. Ug to th8. Th7 was a breeeze with no problems whatsoever. The journey continues....damn I need new boots
Any other threads i can find this banter in? So far ive found 2 and im sucked in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathandrake2017
Lol hahaha. U want in this party? U best have vip passes....or gems. Actually gems r better. TyQuote:
Originally Posted by Clark11308
O btw for those not in the know bc I didnt know before lol. Apparently in order to get a shield, ur opponent not only has to destroy over 29% of ur base but also gotta use certain percentage of his troops lol. I like this rule sc implemented. Game on. Th8 here I come
I would like a matchmaker that has a goal of pure parity even though that of course will never be achieved other than in clans of all max th11s. The incentive to upgrade is for multiplayer to trophy push partially but mostly just because it is fun to progress to new things. The problem with the current system is the matchmaker too often conflicts with multiplayer and actually discourages upgrades. A system that instead makes upgrades no improvement in war would be better than one that actually makes it a disadvantage in war. As for permanent town halls, there is already an incentive to do it. If someone likes th9 better than th10, there is nothing wrong with staying there. Many people do this with second accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikingchief
You ask who should have the advantage, my answer is the person with better base designing and attacking skills. A system that tries to make those two things as important to the outcome of the war as possible is the best system, in my opinion.
That said, I understand those who like having skill at taking advantage of the matchmaking system as an important factor. I don't agree with it, but I think it is a reasonable thing to like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2222
Do you really want a parity MM?
You do realize if SC strove towards this what would happen? They'd basically need to sticky Sin's rushing guide to the front page of the forum. Why? Because there would be zero downside to rushing to TH10 to drop two level 3 infernos with pink walls and 5/5 heroes -- after all they'd be just as valuable in war as someone who has played the game 4 times as long with max heroes and walls.
I really don't get why people think the MM shouldn't reward anything. All good games have rewards for progressing.
And just because I say "reward", this doesn't mean I think a match should be unwinnable. Personally I think the MM should reward walls and heroes as these are the two largest grinds in this game. It think it should also encourage balanced bases.
War details
Us:
Max th11
Mid th10 35/33
2 max th9
Max 8.5
Low th9 10/11
Max th8
Mid th6
Engineer th7
Wallless th5
Them:
Mid th11 20/15/7
Max th10 20/15
Max th9 15/11
Near max th9 17/13
Mid th9 6/9
Mid th9 11/10
Max th8
Near max th8
Th6 max
Engineer th11 7/10/2
Result: we perfected them. Even tho we r not optimized "manipulators" manipulated nonetheless n so did they. Once again no sense crying about mm. Still continue to think sc did well with war mm n my opinions on engineer clans continue to hold true. Stay tuned
Experiences of engineering acct:
Jus ug to th8 over weekend n barely played it till today. So far experiences has been very easy although I been told this th is when rocky times begin. Have yet to c it tho. Anticipating my stay at th8 will b very short bc its a defense th. XD
Th9 is where you will break, around halfway through, as you get constantly attacked with no shield given. Trying to hold on to dark e is a joke. I dont know how the guys who progressed to th10 with max heroes and even 11 did it.Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchilove
Prepare for tough times, try get a few point defences to try defend just enough to get a shield.
what defences do you currently have?
Yeah when the new update dropped with village shields not triggering unless a certain amount of troops were deployed, I figured it was time to put down a few defenses. I was getting raided every 15 minutes. I did as was suggested above and dropped just enough defenses to trigger shields.
All of our "dless" th10 or 11, have built all Teslas and maxed them. That and a mid AQ will generally force at least enough troops to get shield. Full war style defensive cc also.
You may be surprised how many still attack defenseless with large enough army. Also with the add of the AQ helps make the attacker using more troops. Finally the CC should be filled. This will generate a shield almost everytime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikingchief
I have one badazz cannon. Kept it lv1 bc 1 means best. Assume def problem would start as soon as u can hold de. Guess not till th9 eh? Makes sense bc u gotta hold more de for royals. We shall c. I already anticipated def problem but have yet to fully c it yet. Most I held was only 20k tho. Trying to do this gemless so will probably have rough road ahead but still think it shouldnt b that miserable....I hope lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Vikingchief
Yea I didnt know about that rule also lol. Caught me offguard lol but I like it. Smart n good rule sc implemented imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperStorm103
Ty for tips but first gonna try dless n if plan needs to adapt, ill adapt =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripple1972
I agree. I always try n fill my cc n it seems to work quite well. I have opinion it isnt hard making engineer acct unlike how some engineers claim so wanna c if my opinion is foolish or valid. The retort I hear "if engineering is so easy lets c u do it"Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit
1. Some dont wanna start over on new accts
2. Cant go back in time n not make def buildings or sell em off
I can understand both sides arguments so I wanna c myself how hard is it to make a good engineer acct. Question is what is considered a good engineer acct. Th9? 10? 11?
I would say a good engineered account is one that fits a specific role inside your normal clan composition.
For instance, if you have a really bad attacker with maxed defense and below average offense, you could engineer an account to have really high offense but really weak defense. These two accounts would theoretically balance out. As you would end up with a power offense and defense and a weak offense and defense. Something to that effect.
Just make sure the guy with the power offense can use it.
Enginered bases like a th 11 weighing a th 9 is a problem supercell needs to fix. I belive the majority of clashers would agree i suport a petition shld be made i fell like it would find alot of support. I think fair matcmaking would be Th lvs should not match opponents outside their th lvl. Simple solution.
Unless you're able to use all your loot for an upgrade, keeping it may be problematic at times specially when you're attacked with minimal troops.Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchilove
I usually force a shield just before I go to bed.
On those occasions where I forget or unable to do this, I have been attacked between 2-10 times and have most of my loot gone.
On your question on what TH for a good engineered account, it depends on your composition.
I think having a 10 on top would need a 10 below in order for it to be effective, a 9 for a 9 and an 11 for an 11.
Ty all for ur insights. I will keep em noted.
I liked ur answer on what th is a good engineer acct. Simple n makes alot of senseQuote:
Originally Posted by nightmare77
Totally agree with this, because a defenseless TH9 will not really helpful in a clan with a top base of th10 or 11, because a defenseless TH9 is often is a very weak TH9 with low heroes, so it is meaninglessQuote:
Originally Posted by nightmare77
My purpose for engineering in accounts is to try to offset areas of the clan structure that are weak. For instance we have some fairly high weight th9's that are not the greatest attackers but still want to war. This often causes an issue of the lower th9's not getting 3 starred. I only have so many attacks for top bases each war.
In order to shore up that weakness, I have two th9 mini accounts under development that fortify that weakness. They are light on defenses, but I'm pushing their offense to the level of being able to 3 star mid to low level th9's. This gives my team two easier bases to hit and 4 extra soon to be strong attacks. Both of my minis have hounds and loons. The final step is getting their heroes to 05/05 both currently 1/1 (already 3 starring low level 9's with them). This will allow my family clan to stay competitive and gives us a chance to win wars.
Yes thats one of strong positives to engineering. Unfortunately many dont use engineer bases for that purpose tho. In cases like that I support engineering (gasp)Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperStorm103
I dont understand how so many still complain about war mm. From what I seen think sc did superb job with war mm. Even tho I use manipulated bases (admitted not fully optimized manipulated bases I know) sc has made mm fair for most part. Seeing all these complaint posts about war mm confuses me. Maybe making excuses to cover their skills?
I'm sure that is part of it. Most of the time an engineering clan has lighter bases on defense. This makes 3 starring them easier. But, because a fair amount of people attacking arn't elite attackers, they still fail on these weaker bases. So now, the engineering clan that they are facing has more offense power and can overcome the other clans heavier defense bases easier (theoretically). This would be an example of a engineering clan with good attackers vs a maxxer clan with fair attackers. This is not always the case.
The engineers gamble does not always pay off. There are maxxer clans out there that are full of excellent attackers as well as engineered clans full of good attackers that still struggle with the more power offense to put up the 3 stars. These are the cases you hear about maxxer clans putting the smack down on engineering.
I think a big reason for complaining is that nobody likes to loose or are able to say well done to the other clan. Clans that engineer know they are walking a thin line and their planning can easily backfire on them by providing easier bases for the enemy. But, due to the average attacker skill it just happens to pay off more then it doesn't.
Also, most of the threads that I see here complaining about mis matches seem to be the more average clans which would struggle against an engineering clan. A few of those threads are however from really good war clans that have been handed a rare unwinnable match due to very good roster engineering which is made possible under the current MM system. Most people are not that motivated to put in the effort to make a really good line up. I would say a lot of so called engineers are sort of lazy and only due partial engineering. They also don't have the time and effort to put 100% into achieving an unbeatable line up.
As war goes, those with the best plan usually win, even if it's only a half plan. Engineers just put a little more effort into winning. I mean after all everybody has the same option for optimizing. Some choose to take advantage of it. Others choose not to and then complain when their level of effort doesn't match the other clans and they come up short.
This got long, I'm done lol.
Funny this is almost exactly what I was saying in my clan's thread celebrating our 300 wins streak last week - the same 20 pages long thread that you single handedly managed to close down, and sputtering claims that are exactly the opposite of what you just wrote above.Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchilove
kimchilove
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Super Memberhttps://forum-content.supercell.com/...tation_pos.pngJoin DateSep 2014Posts810
N that's exactly my problem too. How they distort reality n actually think their wars r fair n competitive. Saying it with a straight face without smirking. He even mentioned they have th9 wars bc they enjoy fair n competitive matches yet they bring engineered th10-11? N thats fair n competitive exactly how? He even states they have max or heavy accts, wonder how often they r used for war n not for practice or trophy pieces to make it look like they r not totally engineered? Its fine to engineer n its fine to get streaks but plz don't b delusional n spread false facts to us as if we r that gullible. That would probably help alot js. It truly is a skill to make such engineer bases this I concur but u cheapen ur clans rep by saying silly stuff tied in with that. Either way gl with rest of yall journey n hopefully u learned valuable lesson here coming at us with ur reasonings.
Ooop I c what u doin here. Trying to bait me to get me more in trouble eh? Lol in all seriousness im sorry ur thread got shut down. Think u giving me too much power tho as to claim i single handedly closed ur thread. That wasnt my intention. Anyways, with that said I still stand by what I said. Sorry. U cant compare my experiences to yours. I stated I only use few manipulated bases (engineer fresh th8, 2 8.5, n throw in low th) in war. I know my roster isnt optimized for manipulating bc I just started my experiment (after updates to fix war mm). Whereas I assume u use mostly manipulated bases in war n been making those accts far longer than I have. Am I correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by CheckMate99
Look im sorry if what I say sounds harsh but sometimes reality can b harsh. I try to simply speak facts/reality. If u think im just trolling, hating, being jelly, etc I welcome u to check my wars n I yours. Im pretty sure we will c huge difference. Mind u this is post update where advantages werent as huge as they were before (didnt u start streak before updates?) Even with those changes I assume u still get matches where other side has no chance at wining? Tbh, idc that u engineer or have huge streak. I only disagreed with your statements n thoughts that yall had challenging n fair wars n u guys won bc of superior attack/def skills. Like I said if im just spewing nonsense n being jealous simply show war details. That should end things pretty quickly no?
Ok think I can come up with factual conclusion without any preconceived assumptions. Looks like best way to get most fair n challenging wars is to use maxed to heavy weight bases (as long as offense can carry it) and tight spread of th lvs. I already had this conclusion prior to me experimenting with manipulated accts. Now its official (I hope lol) sorry to those who engineer well. Ur wars r roster management n making of manipulated accts. (A skill not many have apparently) that is credit yall can claim n ill keep quiet as long as I dont hear outlandish claims stating otherwise. (Ie: wars r challenging n fair. We won bc of superior def/attack skill) all is fair in love n war I agree as long as delusional statements r not tied in with it. Once again I apologize if this offends anyways. Just stating facts. Either way gl all
Thank you for the acknowledgement. Yes it is a skill that not many have. Those that have the knowledge and discipline to follow a long path are rewarded. Those that are able to and have the attack skill as well are the o es getting the war streaks in the 100's. I am glad that you took the time to experiment in this area. Good luck with your game.
Ty gl to u also. Just one slight tidbit. Dont need much attack skill to do well in a engineer war js. Engineers purposely lower overall weight to get easier bases n matches generally being matched with weaker/inexperienced clans. This is y u never hear of engineer clans being matched with more well known respected clans or clans full of legit attackers bc those r types of clans they wanna avoid at all cost. Regardless still a strat n yes skill does come into play but that skill is mostly roster management n making of engineer accts. Hope u r not offended dude by these statements. Gl to u also sincerelyQuote:
Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit
Kimchilove, yes most of the the time u don't need a good attacking skill in engineered clan, but u occasionally u will face similar strength of top bases, maybe about once very 10 wars, so if u see a very long Winstreak, u can not deny at least they have skill to overcome similar strength baseQuote:
Originally Posted by kimchilove
Ty for input dude n tbh my clan isnt optimally engineered so didnt know that inside info u gave. May I c a war that contains what u claimed plz? Not bc I dont think u r tryin to deceive but just to answer my curiousity. I never said no skill was needed but less skill is involved compared to clans who dont try to manipulate wars. N even if it does happen once every 10 wars still means streak kept alive easier 9 out of 10 times. Hope this doesnt demean u in any way dude n if it does im sorry but that isnt intention. I do acknowledge some skill is involved n that it isnt cheating n it is a legit stratQuote:
Originally Posted by samratulangi
Haha just watched clash of clans tutor n apparently looks like I started my engineer acct too late lol. Bout time sc. Good for game overall n long term
Ok, if we face a war that both clan can win or at least tie on the paper I will let u see it, we have seen some of that on past wars, but detail is not available by now since it is more then 3 wars ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchilove
Btw one of our clans just lost 97 winstreak 2 weeks ago to a tie, so MM definitely improved and skill does matter more, lol
Sorry to drop in with the hijack, but this is exactly right.Quote:
Originally Posted by samratulangi
'Wars where both clans can win or lose'
are happening FAR more now.
The majority of engineering isn't making an automatic and huge advantage anymore. It's slim to none.
Those clans that engineered to cover for attacking frailties, will now be losing a lot.
The clans that engineered to compound an advantage they already had in attacking skill and base design....will still be winning, but still thinking it has anything to do with the engineering bit.
It's madness. Engineers laughed at 'stupid, ignorant, arrogant maxing' through numerous war MM iterations where engineering was providing a fairly consistent advantage.
Now those same people aren't realising that their advantage has been decimated, in a similar fashion of ignorance.
What Kimi has alluded to a couple of times is still true though. Lower level engineering is most likely still alive and well....cos there's so many matches against nubs at that weight.
But in all honesty, those same clans would be easy to beat for good attackers in an exact perfect match.
I will add that my clan's 11 streak got broken by a clan with an engineered 45/45/20 9.5.
The only thing that did for them was make 14 th11 max hero attacks to our 12.
They won because they were better. Their designs were better, they attacked better, they succeeded all their th10 dips, and 3D our weakest 11.
We didn't. End of. Engineering didn't win. Quality did. People need to look at that a bit more and see where the wind is blowing.
Aaa ic koo. Ill b waiting thanQuote:
Originally Posted by samratulangi
Doesn't this only pertain to those clans who use some max to heavy weight bases along with manipulated bases?Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfinch30
Are you sure? My engineered clan still get easy matches all the time. We are crushing easy enemies left and right. We rely solely on our engineer skill as most of our attacks are dips...and if we fail (which we often do - we are mathematicians mostly), then we will just use our even stronger bases to do a double dips (2 TH stronger) to crush enemies. Our all green log proves this fact, as most of our wins margin is 30-40 stars difference. Really, i don't get all the fuss about engineering nerf at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfinch30
N this is where skills come into play. Even tho I dont agree with principals of engineering n some of the claims associated with it, there is no denying the fact yall mastered what many either cant or havent. Yall figured out war mm algorithm n using it to ur benefit. This is a skill for sure n making of manipulated bases to optimize advantage is also a skill. There is no denying this fact. Ur wars r in roster management instead of battlefield (nothing wrong with that as there is no,cheating involved n yall r all playing within rules) I know we had our disagreements but I do acknowledge n admit ur understanding of war mm is way above rest. In that sense ur clan is elite.Quote:
Originally Posted by CheckMate99