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For War Weight calculations, any townhall has a minimum war weight of the previous townhall's maximum war weight
ie. Any Townhall 11 is considered to be at least the equivalent to a max th10 regarding war weight.
Still allows X.5 strategies, but effectively removes engineered bases, and also rewards those players that have done their wall grind (not me...).
o/
I agree. Last 3 wars I have been in of 20v20 and 2 25v25. There have been 1 or 2 th11 and th10's with bk and aq above 20 vs our th8........ then those bottom ranked th10's and th11 were attacking our top 5 get high 2 or 3 stars.
That would make too many people angry and quit! A th11 with th8/9 defences would get slaughtered against a max th10(your idea) and have to struggle to catch back up. Easier to start again! I'm sorry but engineered bases are a thing, people spent a lot of time and effort making them that way
The idea is good, but SC is getting quite some money from the engineered bases, I doubt that they will kill the golden goose
ENGINEERED bases are unfair in clan wars. They need to be adreessed. Any ideal the addresses them in any way is a good ideal to me. A simple thing like this could fix them and SC would make money with this ideal because engineered bases have gemmed them self's to where they are so they will be more like to gem them self's to fix themselves.
Or just put out some kind of statement by SC saying that a solution like this for this problem is coming soon and that engineered bases need to fix themselves or be unable to be put in wars. By denial of being in war it would cause them to fix the problem with them.
As said by many people every time the OP's idea is suggested, this is a bad idea. It would hurt the rushers/preemies who make up the vast majority of the player base.Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf1234
Engineering/lopsiding is not unfair. As long as both sides have equal offensive and defensive strength then how those clans choose to distribute their strength is a matter for the clans.
Despite those who have not kept up to date with the situation saying that SC should put out a statement, there is no need for that. SC have already stated that they were looking into balancing lopsided bases. That they used the term "balancing" shows that they consider this a part of the game that just needs tweaking to prevent it being OP, not something that will be removed.
I agree (not with OP), what about rushed players ? They wont stand a chance against maxed base (th-1), i dont think this is a way yow to do such a balance
Rushing is not generally unfair, rushing with the goal to take advantage in wars, is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspex
May the majority of the bases are rushed, player with engineered bases are the majority in this forum, but in the game itīs the minority. But a minority who ruin the game for millions of normal player.
Most of the clashers donīt even know, this forum exist, they just noticed theese unfair matches, so they change the war frequency from allways to twice a week, to somtimes, to never. Without wars the chat will die and without chat, the clan will die, and than the payer quits.
I donīt think SC is happy about that, because itīs better to get 10$ from 100 million player, than get 100$ from 10.000.
First, if you rush th, and this update is applied to game, you have no chance to win at cw.
Second, i didnt get those 10$ against 100$ - for Supercell, it is better the option with 100$ so ...
Engineered bases - they are not such a problem at higher th balanced clans (clans with players mostly same th lvl with lowest th 8+) - you cant see engineered bases against you, because your lowest th is 7/8 so ... Engineering is against lower ths - you can destroy them, and they can destory you, thats the thing, if you have good clan, you will get tie and can hope for better enemy next time
Using strategy in a strategy game is not unfair. As long as the MM is doing what it is meant to then matches should be even, the presence of engineered bases on one side notwithstanding.Quote:
Originally Posted by MiCra
I'd be interested to see a breakdown of forum members' bases but do not think that the majority have engineered bases, rather the opposite. Either way, it's just a guess.
So if it is no problem for your clan, it is not a Problem??Quote:
Originally Posted by SMAEL
Our clan also can prevent this Problem, just bring up enough real TH 10 and 11 and you can not be matched with a cheater clan.
But did you ever think about the clans who play this game in the sense of the gameplay and donīt have bases higher than TH 9? They are getting punished for spending more time and money in their bases.
Do you think i am not dealing with this problem ? Read my signature and you may find out i am dealing with this problem as well. I have a clan that there are max th 8, no th 9s allowed, so when i encounter engineered base, i just have to live with one lost war, if you know what is the mean idea of strategy game - strategy, it even is in the name - you know you have to use strategies in game, so if someone chose to have so sh*tty base but great offence, you have to live with such a thingQuote:
Originally Posted by MiCra
Dont you dare say again that its not my problem, its everyones problem
.....And if someone use special knowlege how to make the MM think, a match is even, but he have an advantage, he is just a cheater, not a strategist.... even if it donīt hurt the TOS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspex
It is just guessing...... While reading here. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspex
stop being a baby and be a better war attacker which means moving away from all dragon attacks. There shouldn't be a balance because they decided to work on offense more than defense. you shouldn't punish someone's free willQuote:
Originally Posted by KagedShadow
Sorry, I got you wrong first.Quote:
Originally Posted by SMAEL
I can imagine how a low-TH-clan have to suffer with this.
No one has special knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by MiCra
Calling people "cheaters" for playing within the rules is unacceptable on the forums BTW, I suggest you edit your posts to remove that slur.
It doesn't make sense and should be balanced. 20 in enemy clan was a th11 w hero's above 25. Our 20 was a near max th8. Their 20 attacked me ranked 4 for 3 stars. Max everything th10. If someone is able to attack that high with the troops, spell, hero capacity obviously balancing needs to be adjusted.
The chances our 20 a near max th8 attack and 3 star a maxed th10 are way lower than a th11 who is also ranked 20. Just didn't build any defenses or walls
Position on the war map only shows relative defensive strength within that base's own clan. It says nothing whatsoever about that base's offensive strength, which will have been taken into account by the MM.Quote:
Originally Posted by FR33CaTbAtHs
What you are saying doesn't make sense is that TH11 offence 3 starred a TH10. That makes sense and is almost to be expected. Ignore a base's map position as it is irrelevant.
Agree, i dont know how it is positioned in cw but i would like to find out - example - i have max th 9 and friend lower, he is higher then me, why ? I had few examples as this happening, still dont know why.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspex
How much gold is available in the storages on battle day? Other cases of this that have been posted, the bomb tower has been the culprit.Quote:
Originally Posted by SMAEL
Ok, first off
@ wrenn99 - I haven't used mass dragons in war since th8 back in early 2015, so please take you attitude elsewhere
Rushed Bases - They already suffer very badly in war - anyone casual or newbie with a rushed base that is more than vaguely interested in war already needs to sit out for a while and fix there base, my suggestion wouldn't change that. Any Vet that knows what they are doing and have a rushed base are actually an engineered base, even if they intend to 'catch up' on defences later.
Overall Engineered bases are a problem for clans with a mixed ranged of th levels, which I would guess are the majority of clans. My clan is Lvl11, we normally have 20v20 wars (we war continually), with roughly 3 th11 (inc. myself), 7 or so th10s, 7 th9s and 3 th8s. We are seeing a lot more engineered bases recently (no idea why) and were are getting sick of it - 3 or 4 in a 20v20 is a huge difference. And because MM takes into consideration both Offensive and Defence, it is not a fair calculation...
Engineered base players are small group of exploitative players making the game worse for the majority - I'm fairly certain its not in the spirit of the game.
Funniest war recently was against a clan whose descriptions described themselves as FairPlay...and had 3 engineered bases in 20v20.....maybe English wasn't their first language....
I agree with Aspex.
The MM system see's two clans:
Clan A weighs 10,000 _ 6,000 offense/4,000 defense
Clan B weighs 10,000 _ 5,000 offense/5,000 defense
We have a fair match according to the MM.
Clan A strategy was to max offense and skimp on defense. Clan B strategy was to make tough bases defensively and have average offense.
Your clan strategy should be optimized for your clans strengths and weaknesses.
@ Superstorm103 That logic would hold true if we only got 1 attack during clan war, as then choosing to weigh in with unbalanced atk/def would be an interesting choice, but because we get 2 attacks, but only 1 defence, offence is intrinsically more valuable.
I agree with your logic, I was just trying to illustrate how the MM currently seems to be working.Quote:
Originally Posted by KagedShadow
This^Quote:
Originally Posted by SMAEL
The town hall provides no actual offensive or defensive value so no reason for it to have a single bit of weight.
Why should I? ....even if cheating is allowed, itīs cheating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspex
..... and btw ..... using apps or other websites to calculate something like "Warweight" is using "3rd-party-software", stricty speaking. ;)
And how are engineers cheating ?Quote:
Originally Posted by MiCra
You should remove it because engineering is not cheating. Asserting that players who are playing within the rules are cheating is toxic and does not lead to good discussions, hence it being unacceptable to call engineering cheating.Quote:
Originally Posted by MiCra
The ToS only forbids third party software that is "designed to modify or interfere with the Service". Use of websites, etc, does not fall under that. Your (mis)reading of the ToS would also mean that clashtools, clashcaller, etc, etc, would be forbidden which is emphatically not the case.
I am not sure how accurate you are about the "vast majority of the player base" being rushed. I am lucky to find a rushed base once every 2 months while raiding and I happen to be VERY active in game. The problem is growing and needs to be addressed and I fully agree with the OP about the solution to this issue. The TH needs to have the LARGEST weight given in war matching. If they had the time to intentionally screw with how they design their base then they have the time to fix it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspex
The last war we had a TH11 as a mirror to one of our TH6. I don't care how you slice it there is NO way a TH6 can take out a TH11. There is simply not enough time for a TH6 to chew through the total HP on the map in the 3 minutes allotted.
Depending on your league you may see more or fewer rushed bases but rushers/preemies are extremely prevalent.Quote:
Originally Posted by carmour987
Assigning weight to a structure that adds nothing, beyond a few HP, to either the offensive or defensive strength of that base is not a good idea. A base should be weighted on what it actually has, not its potential.
Mirror bases are irrelevant to this discussion, I don't know why people keep thinking that they have meaning.
We get as many defences as the opposing team choose to use attacks on a base. It could be none, it could be one, it could be many more.Quote:
Originally Posted by KagedShadow
JUST short of T3 (should hit it today) and gold 3 on the second account. I have yet to see any rushed bases with my little guy and as I said only an occasional with my main. People keep mentioning mirror because they are TOTALLY relevant. When you come up with a war match where the bottom ten out of a 30/30 war hold 4 th10 and th11 you have basically lost 8 attacks out of 60 for the war. Not to mention you are using 4 mid range attacks to take out those bases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspex
The bottom 10 are only going to be able to attack just so high for realistic 3 star. When you take away 4 of those maps and force higher level guys to drop down to kill them it has a HUGE impact to probable outcome of the war......I stand by my original post and my support of the OP.
Just for full disclosure our clan has started doing this ourselves since we are so sick of getting matches of this nature. It leaves me feeling dirty knowing that SC has ignored this for long that we need to play low and dirty just to balance the terms of engagement.
There is nothing toxic in it. I donīt know why, but it seems to be a agreement here, not to use the right words. Iīm an old man and I donīt have time for needless political correctness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspex
If you have the time to look in a (old fashion) dictionary for the word "fair" you will find analogies like "even", "equal", "honest","just", "adequate" and so on. Surely you will also find "playing by the rules", but that donīt make the other matches invalid. Itīs possible something is unfair without intention, that is just unfair. If someone causes unfairness to take advantage, it is cheating. I just use the right word in the right context, mothing toxic or to excuse. You may use other definiciones, but you can not say, mine is wrong.
It has nothing to do with political correctness. This discussion has been done to death. Search for previous threads on the topic to see a complete rebuttal of your position if you wish.Quote:
Originally Posted by MiCra
What engineers do does not meet the definition of cheating. Calling those who play within the rules "cheaters" is not acceptable, as well as being grammatically incorrect in English (except in the US variant). You may not see it as toxic as it is not your character that is being maligned, that does not mean that it is not toxic.
The amount of posts asking for this same solution as the OP is kind of staggering. As I have read though about 20 of them it seems the same small group of people NOT wanting this solution....it makes me wonder if they have engineered bases and clans going to war with this exact tactic. The sheer volume of these posts should lend weight to what side of the argument is having the greatest negative impact to the health of the game. It would seem to me from just pure forum numbers and posts that the OP solution to the game....which as we all know is posted in MANY other threads......would be the best one for the game as a whole.
The reason people do not see the OP's suggestion as a solution is because it is a bad idea that would negatively affect millions of rushed players. That is no solution and it is in no way best for the game as a whole. Just because a bad idea is suggested lots of times does not magically transform it into a good idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by carmour987
People opposed to this idea come from all sides of the argument, BTW, to assume otherwise would be to display a lack of critical thinking.
The idea is NOT bad, it is simply an idea...a suggestion on a potential solution to something that is CLEARLY impacting the game to such a degree it is being posted on numerous threads. This is not a guess it is fact and a simple forum search supports this. I happen to be questioning why the same SMALL group of players are opposed to it. Also a simple fact as can be shown by reading through said posts and seeing the replies to them. I am also questioning your numbers, where are you getting these millions from? As I posted earlier in this thread your wild claims are not supported by what either myself or any members of my two clans are seeing. Yes this is a small sample of the over all player base but if your millions were supported by hard facts surely both my clans would be seeing numerous engineered bases as we farm for resources each day. This is simply not the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspex
As to your last point I fully understand that opposition to ANY idea will face critics on any side of an argument and will thank you not to question if I am capable of critical or any other type of thinking. I have not in any way tossed disparaging comments about you into the mix and would appreciate the same courtesy.
Yes, it is simply an idea. If it were to be implemented it would be bad for the game, IMO, which makes it a bad idea, again IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by carmour987
I'm unsure as to why you say that you and your clan not seeing engineered bases means that there aren't millions of rushed/preemie players out there. It is arguably the case that the majority of the player base is rushed, you somehow not seeing them, especially in gold league, is questionable.
Had I called your critical thinking capabilities into question, your last point would be valid. I did not do so, instead I comnented that to make such a facile assumption as that those opposed to an idea must have a vested interest in it not being implemented would be to display a lack of critical thinking. I fully understand that you did not make such an assumption explicitly, although your statement that you "wonder if they have engineered bases and clans going to war with this exact tactic" was verging on implying it. My statement was more of a cautionary warning not to slip into that fallacy.