Upgrading Philosphy

My COC Philosphy:

"No matter how great I build my defenses somebody will always come along that is bigger or better and beat my defenses. However I will never be able to beat great defense without having great offense. OFFENSE>DEFENSE"


I believe this is true in all game modes and at all th levels, but is especially true in war. I noticed in our wars we are consistently out matched on defense but our offense/attacking skills are superior and allow us to win a lot wars. The game wouldn't be fun if our attacks consistently failed so there for offense is always going to be able to beat defense. Now I'm not saying you shouldn't build defenses and shouldn't upgrade those defenses, you build your base the way you want but I don't think anyone can dispute that offense is the most important part of the game.I think that this mentality would help a lot of people progress through the game a little more evenly when it comes to the hero and wall grind if they followed this mentality.

So whether people agree with lopsided bases to any extent or not, I am not here to have that debate, there are plenty of those threads out there already. I also don't want my statement to be construed as you should engineer because that is no what I am saying. I am curious as to others opinions are on the matter. Why do so many players neglect their offense and then complain when they can't 3 star their equal base.

I've already said that for years, "People will only attack you if they're confident that they'll bring you down" and "No matter how weak my defenses are, the loot cap will prevent me from losing more than that"

Offense or TH > resources > defese

At TH8, between the choice of upgrading TH to get AQ and new offenses vs lvl6 teslas/mortars/WT, upgrading TH is always the wisest choice.

At TH9, between the choice of maxing defenses + lvl30 heroes vs infernos + TH10 offenses, upgrading to TH10 gives most strength in the shortest amount of time

At TH10, between the choice of maxing all lab troops + TH10 defenses vs Warden + eagle, upgrading to TH11 gives most strength in the shortest amount of time and effort

Then at TH11 only you catch up on your TH8/9 defenses. My TH10 who has TH6/7 defenses is actually defending better than my TH10 who had 75% maxed TH10 defenses

Unfortunately, I think you may draw out an engineering debate with this thread whether that's the intent or not.

Part of the reason why so many people have greater defense than offense stems from the fact that you can have 5 builders. There's a lot of people out there who need to see those builders doing something to feel like they are progressing. I've always been one of those people, could never stand to have them idle, and so it's a good thing that I've always been very active and not afraid to spend a few gems here and there, so my offense isn't lagging too far behind. I've seen a lot of less active people get handcuffed by faster defensive progression and eventually stop playing when raiding becomes impossible for their level.

Because they see their builders being busy, and don't usually research progression strategy or visit the forum until the problem becomes intolerable for them, they feel like it's a fault in the game instead of how they've played it.

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Originally Posted by Hatchlhoff

Unfortunately, I think you may draw out an engineering debate with this thread whether that's the intent or not.

Part of the reason why so many people have greater defense than offense stems from the fact that you can have 5 builders. There's a lot of people out there who need to see those builders doing something to feel like they are progressing. I've always been one of those people, could never stand to have them idle, and so it's a good thing that I've always been very active and not afraid to spend a few gems here and there, so my offense isn't lagging too far behind. I've seen a lot of less active people get handcuffed by faster defensive progression and eventually stop playing when raiding becomes impossible for their level.

Because they see their builders being busy, and don't usually research progression strategy or visit the forum until the problem becomes intolerable for them, they feel like it's a fault in the game instead of how they've played it.

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Its all about min/maxing lab upgrades and removing the notion of "maxing"

Remember that you don't need every single troop maxed to excel, but you definitely need all CC,camps,lab,sf maxed to attack well. Look far ahead, at TH8 you don't need to max dragons because you'll not be using them afterwards. If you do not plan to war much in TH9, don't max hogs or witches. You basically only need maxed valks, bowlers, laloon to war effectively in TH10. In TH11, its all about bowlers and laloon

After maxing those key priority troops, do not touch those second priority troops. Eg, TH9 doesn't need to upgrade drag/pekka, TH10 doesn't need to max miners/pekka/drag and TH11 doesn't need witches, hogs, miners anymore. Focus on upgrading troops necessary for the next TH level (valks for TH9, laloon for TH10) or predict which troops are getting buffed next and upgrade those. If you always upgrade key troops + second priority troops, you'll always be behind the curve when the next update drops/you reach a new TH level. I always go for: key troops > next TH troops or key troops > predicted troops.

Right now, my main account can choose to max baby drag, drag or pekkas. I chose pekkas because they're the most likely to be buffed next, because drags and baby drags are on the curve of balance while pekkas fall below the curve

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Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

Right now, my main account can choose to max baby drag, drag or pekkas. I chose pekkas because they're the most likely to be buffed next, because drags and baby drags are on the curve of balance while pekkas fall below the curve

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I guess
But Dragons are useful right now, and Pekkas might never really be useful
You're basing a lot on the perceived weakness on pekkas

Each to their own I guess

I'd rather just max everything, but that's maybe just me
(Poison Hogs Golems to go, so I guess Golems are next)

* should note, that I agree with you except perhaps for this part :)

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Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

Right now, my main account can choose to max baby drag, drag or pekkas. I chose pekkas because they're the most likely to be buffed next, because drags and baby drags are on the curve of balance while pekkas fall below the curve

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I had similar thoughts near the end of TH10. Heroes and buildings were finishing up and I wasn't staying at 10 to work on just lab and walls.

I had to decide between Pekka and Haste. I chose Pekka (before the December update) figuring Pekka would get bump. I choose poorly as Haste would have been better for loons.

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Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

I've already said that for years, "People will only attack you if they're confident that they'll bring you down" and "No matter how weak my defenses are, the loot cap will prevent me from losing more than that"

Offense or TH > resources > defese

At TH8, between the choice of upgrading TH to get AQ and new offenses vs lvl6 teslas/mortars/WT, upgrading TH is always the wisest choice.

At TH9, between the choice of maxing defenses + lvl30 heroes vs infernos + TH10 offenses, upgrading to TH10 gives most strength in the shortest amount of time

At TH10, between the choice of maxing all lab troops + TH10 defenses vs Warden + eagle, upgrading to TH11 gives most strength in the shortest amount of time and effort

Then at TH11 only you catch up on your TH8/9 defenses. My TH10 who has TH6/7 defenses is actually defending better than my TH10 who had 75% maxed TH10 defenses

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Agreed. In fact you should go straight to TH11.

It doesn't matter that you'll get absolutely destroyed in matchmaking because you can farm billions an hour (even with the penalty) and there's no need to upgrade defences. As you said, upgrading defences only draws stronger attackers, even though a brand new TH8 could destroy you.

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Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

I've already said that for years, "People will only attack you if they're confident that they'll bring you down" and "No matter how weak my defenses are, the loot cap will prevent me from losing more than that"

Offense or TH > resources > defese

At TH8, between the choice of upgrading TH to get AQ and new offenses vs lvl6 teslas/mortars/WT, upgrading TH is always the wisest choice.

At TH9, between the choice of maxing defenses + lvl30 heroes vs infernos + TH10 offenses, upgrading to TH10 gives most strength in the shortest amount of time

At TH10, between the choice of maxing all lab troops + TH10 defenses vs Warden + eagle, upgrading to TH11 gives most strength in the shortest amount of time and effort

Then at TH11 only you catch up on your TH8/9 defenses. My TH10 who has TH6/7 defenses is actually defending better than my TH10 who had 75% maxed TH10 defenses

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Hey Sin, do you think TH11 is better for loot that TH 10? I've been rushing since I started and I plan to go to th10 soon with 15:15 heroes and all level 9walls. I dont want to spend too much time at th10. Is loot per hour better at th11 or should I stay at th10 ?

I'm interested in walls and max heroes

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Originally Posted by PhilISuppose

I guess
But Dragons are useful right now, and Pekkas might never really be useful
You're basing a lot on the perceived weakness on pekkas

Each to their own I guess

I'd rather just max everything, but that's maybe just me
(Poison Hogs Golems to go, so I guess Golems are next)

* should note, that I agree with you except perhaps for this part :)

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Depends, but I've predicted correctly on troops 3-4 times now so I'm biased on this. I'm a rusher so I finished everything in the game except lab (I still have 6 months to go on lab), so I'd rather focus my time on worthwhile troops rather than troops that will remain the same strength

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Originally Posted by Klavious

I had similar thoughts near the end of TH10. Heroes and buildings were finishing up and I wasn't staying at 10 to work on just lab and walls.

I had to decide between Pekka and Haste. I chose Pekka (before the December update) figuring Pekka would get bump. I choose poorly as Haste would have been better for loons.

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I still have lvl2 haste. Just bring 2 maxed haste in your CC and you're good. Tbh, lvl2 and lvl4 haste makes no difference to me. I'll just wait for the inevitable pekka buff coming soon, like how I predicted valks, bowlers, laloon

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Originally Posted by KindOfSucks

Agreed. In fact you should go straight to TH11.

It doesn't matter that you'll get absolutely destroyed in matchmaking because you can farm billions an hour (even with the penalty) and there's no need to upgrade defences. As you said, upgrading defences only draws stronger attackers, even though a brand new TH8 could destroy you.

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Good that some people in the forums can think on the same page as me :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by LittleMoon

Hey Sin, do you think TH11 is better for loot that TH 10? I've been rushing since I started and I plan to go to th10 soon with 15:15 heroes and all level 9walls. I dont want to spend too much time at th10. Is loot per hour better at th11 or should I stay at th10 ?

I'm interested in walls and max heroes

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Easy answer: TH10 has better loot overall. Ask me in pm or in my blog for a longer answer, no need to derail the topic

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Originally Posted by LittleMoon

Hey Sin, do you think TH11 is better for loot that TH 10? I've been rushing since I started and I plan to go to th10 soon with 15:15 heroes and all level 9walls. I dont want to spend too much time at th10. Is loot per hour better at th11 or should I stay at th10 ?

I'm interested in walls and max heroes

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Th10, no question. loot is easy at 10. 11 is quite a bit tougher

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Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

Depends, but I've predicted correctly on troops 3-4 times now so I'm biased on this. I'm a rusher so I finished everything in the game except lab (I still have 6 months to go on lab), so I'd rather focus my time on worthwhile troops rather than troops that will remain the same strength

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Yeah
Those would make a difference

I've tended to be the opposite and got troops upgraded just in time for the nerf
I have about 45 days of lab time, 6 hero levels and walls to do.

My philosophy was always just to avoid my lab sitting idle, I hate that.
So once I had a max TH19 lab I went to TH10 (and I was sitting on a max TH10 lab for a while before TH11 came out so it was an easy call)

p.s. I think we all know you're a rusher ;)

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Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

Depends, but I've predicted correctly on troops 3-4 times now so I'm biased on this. I'm a rusher so I finished everything in the game except lab (I still have 6 months to go on lab), so I'd rather focus my time on worthwhile troops rather than troops that will remain the same strength



I still have lvl2 haste. Just bring 2 maxed haste in your CC and you're good. Tbh, lvl2 and lvl4 haste makes no difference to me. I'll just wait for the inevitable pekka buff coming soon, like how I predicted valks, bowlers, laloon



Good that some people in the forums can think on the same page as me :thumbsup:


Easy answer: TH10 has better loot overall. Ask me in pm or in my blog for a longer answer, no need to derail the topic

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sent you a pm, thanks.

It's not so much as "neglecting" offenses, it's because Lab offense upgrade is the bottleneck.
Most active players will always have Lab upgrading 24/7, but it's still far slower to finish than defenses.

If you want to rush, IMHO, there are 3 things that you need:
1. Thick skin. Getting destroyed 100% is psychologically more damaging than <99% destroyed.
The amount of loots doesn't even matter, just by seeing 100% destroyed is enough.
2. Active playing. You can't just attack once or twice a day and rely on collectors.
You need to actively farm, especially for those DE.
3. Patience. Especially the patience to next.
You gonna next a lot to find those dead bases.

Once you got those 3, rushing is fine and a smart way to reach end game fast.

Actually, there are only 3 troops that you need to farm: Barbarians, Archers, and/or Minions.
I have a maxed TH11 clanmate that has NEVER use any other troops besides those 3.
Seriously, he never ever cook any other troops besides BAM.

He finished magmas in less than 2 months..
His "fun" and only reason to play this game is to finish everything as fast as possible..
New update drops, finish ASAP, then wait for the next update.. XD

So, the moral of the story is, all you need is a maxed Barbarians, Archers, and/or Minions, and you can upgrade to TH11 ASAP! ;)

My upgrade policy when I first began was "I'm gonna upgrade everything... eventually. So, may as well upgrade the most expensive things first to get them out of the way." On my secondary accounts, my philosophy has changed to offense (especially heroes) above all else, walls even before defenses. For all the clashers who are not a maxed TH11 I do not understand nor share their concerns for defending at all.

My defenses are th8, offense th10, 18/19 heroes in 2d and lvl9 walls. I wasn't even able to upgrade all my collectors/barracks yet, because my 5 builders are always busy. I didn't like th8/9, because the attacks were too easy.

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Originally Posted by Colin94

My defenses are th8, offense th10, 18/19 heroes in 2d and lvl9 walls. I wasn't even able to upgrade all my collectors/barracks yet, because my 5 builders are always busy. I didn't like th8/9, because the attacks were too easy.

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lol

You're a mess my friend.

Rushing is fine in many cases but saying you rushed because attacking in other lower TH were too easy just doesn't make sense. :saywhat: Did you mean too easy in war? If so engineering your base won't change that.


Not maxing collectors is a mistake. It's free loot while you're under shield. Any reasonable player will tell you this.

And not maxing barracks is completely up you, but I'd rather not be handicapped by slow cook times on higher tier troops. I suppose if you're just using barch it doesn't matter but then I'm back to being confused on what these to easy attacks you were refering to are. :saywhat:o

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Originally Posted by Hatchlhoff

Unfortunately, I think you may draw out an engineering debate with this thread whether that's the intent or not.

Part of the reason why so many people have greater defense than offense stems from the fact that you can have 5 builders. There's a lot of people out there who need to see those builders doing something to feel like they are progressing. I've always been one of those people, could never stand to have them idle, and so it's a good thing that I've always been very active and not afraid to spend a few gems here and there, so my offense isn't lagging too far behind. I've seen a lot of less active people get handcuffed by faster defensive progression and eventually stop playing when raiding becomes impossible for their level.

Because they see their builders being busy, and don't usually research progression strategy or visit the forum until the problem becomes intolerable for them, they feel like it's a fault in the game instead of how they've played it.

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Maybe the key is 4 builders, I have only used 4 builders because I started my account on a kindle fire which is unsupported and couldn't buy any gems. After 4 I decided I'd rather use gems for barracks boosts and upgrade times. I have been able to keep my offense always slightly ahead of my defense. So maybe too many people with 5 builders so defenses get done that much quicker. It also a product of a lot of people's inability to realize the need to maximize de profits.

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Originally Posted by PhilISuppose

I guess
But Dragons are useful right now, and Pekkas might never really be useful
You're basing a lot on the perceived weakness on pekkas

Each to their own I guess

I'd rather just max everything, but that's maybe just me
(Poison Hogs Golems to go, so I guess Golems are next)

* should note, that I agree with you except perhaps for this part :)

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I concur with your stance on this.

Also with the current meta meta that is true. What happens when SC makes pekka totally functional again. Max everything they want u using it all

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Originally Posted by WookieFloyd

My COC Philosphy:

"No matter how great I build my defenses somebody will always come along that is bigger or better and beat my defenses. However I will never be able to beat great defense without having great offense. OFFENSE>DEFENSE"


I believe this is true in all game modes and at all th levels, but is especially true in war. I noticed in our wars we are consistently out matched on defense but our offense/attacking skills are superior and allow us to win a lot wars. The game wouldn't be fun if our attacks consistently failed so there for offense is always going to be able to beat defense. Now I'm not saying you shouldn't build defenses and shouldn't upgrade those defenses, you build your base the way you want but I don't think anyone can dispute that offense is the most important part of the game.I think that this mentality would help a lot of people progress through the game a little more evenly when it comes to the hero and wall grind if they followed this mentality.

So whether people agree with lopsided bases to any extent or not, I am not here to have that debate, there are plenty of those threads out there already. I also don't want my statement to be construed as you should engineer because that is no what I am saying. I am curious as to others opinions are on the matter. Why do so many players neglect their offense and then complain when they can't 3 star their equal base.

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I find it comical 2 weeks ago i stumbled on a TH11 with 2x th3 archer towers and 2 x th3 cannons NO walls and full clan castle and 400k gold and elixir 3600 DE, my cost 2 heroes and a handfull of minions
Engineers might experience joy from war but, let them have it if this is what they are offering in return.

Anyone else noticed the majority of dead bases are so pitiful that they are only worthy of being attacked by 2 TH below, Sad state of affairs , I will always have disdain for a rusher and pity as they achieved nothing not joy or sucess

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Originally Posted by crushedhab

Anyone else noticed the majority of dead bases are so pitiful that they are only worthy of being attacked by 2 TH below, Sad state of affairs , I will always have disdain for a rusher and pity as they achieved nothing not joy or sucess

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Lol, since it has been brought up..... Dead bases, I'm in master league not really farming all that much so I do not expect to see many dead bases if any at all. But lately I have been seeing full collector bases, yet IT's are lit as are xbows. I'm beginning to suspect SC has "removed" dead bases by filling empty defenses?

My philosophy: Spend it early, Spend it fast.

As I'm going to end at the omega point of a fully maxed TH11 in 313.4 days (http://coc.jmjeong.com/) it doesn't really matter what I upgrade next, as long as I keep my Laboratory busy.

In reality, I have some preferred troops and to get those maxed, I need 14+14+14 days (Giants upgrading now, followed by Golems and Minions) and I still need 3.5+5 weeks for the Royals + 6.25 weeks for the Warden .. so, all in all I expect to reach the full (utilized) offensive power of TH11 in a couple of months (bounded by the royals)

Throughout my progression, I've always spend DE as soon as I had enough for an upgrade .. any upgrade and I don't save up for a higher AQ level if I have enough DE to upgrade the King .. spend it early, spend it fast.

/Affront

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Originally Posted by Affront

My philosophy: Spend it early, Spend it fast.

Throughout my progression, I've always spend DE as soon as I had enough for an upgrade .. any upgrade and I don't save up for a higher AQ level if I have enough DE to upgrade the King .. spend it early, spend it fast.

/Affront

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I concur great advice

My clashtrack is saying ill be maxed in 81d defense wise anyway another 28d for max bk but my lab is 286d so with 5builders always active it was always gonna happen.Way i was doing it was lab on all the time the things im gonna neef for farm and war then if theres time rest.If not move on to next th lvl.

Went to th10 with aq 28 bk 26 rest max bar lab.Th11 maxed heroes defense lab only what i had time for.Now normaly after those 81d i would move on but theres nowhere to go so i guess ill finish my lab at last :D

Agree with a lot of point here and i consider my self as being maxer bar lab.If i was waiting on lab i be still th9 :D

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Originally Posted by crushedhab

Anyone else noticed the majority of dead bases are so pitiful that they are only worthy of being attacked by 2 TH below, Sad state of affairs , I will always have disdain for a rusher and pity as they achieved nothing not joy or sucess

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What does this have to do with anything. And rushing if done in a well thought out manner is not a haphazard thing, especially if you are rushing on the offensive side of the spectrum, which is what I am saying (sin is a perfect example of this well thought out rushing method). Everyone is so quick to rush through defensive upgrades because they have 5 builders and want to keep them busy, which I understand I am the same way, but I only have 4. Maybe that is the major problem is 5 builders, because with 4 builders I feel like my defense and offense have moved together in a very linear fashion with offense always being just a step ahead. Everyone says the lab is a huge bottleneck but I haven't experienced this either with only 4 builders, but I have still progressed through the game at what I would say is a fairly rapid pace. I got 40/40 heroes in a year and a half and am more then half way through th10 currently at a year and a half and not once were gems ever purchased on the account because it was played on a kindle which is unsupported and doesn't have the google play store.

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Originally Posted by vlix

It's not so much as "neglecting" offenses, it's because Lab offense upgrade is the bottleneck.
Most active players will always have Lab upgrading 24/7, but it's still far slower to finish than defenses.

If you want to rush, IMHO, there are 3 things that you need:
1. Thick skin. Getting destroyed 100% is psychologically more damaging than <99% destroyed.
The amount of loots doesn't even matter, just by seeing 100% destroyed is enough.
2. Active playing. You can't just attack once or twice a day and rely on collectors.
You need to actively farm, especially for those DE.
3. Patience. Especially the patience to next.
You gonna next a lot to find those dead bases.

Once you got those 3, rushing is fine and a smart way to reach end game fast.

Actually, there are only 3 troops that you need to farm: Barbarians, Archers, and/or Minions.
I have a maxed TH11 clanmate that has NEVER use any other troops besides those 3.
Seriously, he never ever cook any other troops besides BAM.

He finished magmas in less than 2 months..
His "fun" and only reason to play this game is to finish everything as fast as possible..
New update drops, finish ASAP, then wait for the next update.. XD

So, the moral of the story is, all you need is a maxed Barbarians, Archers, and/or Minions, and you can upgrade to TH11 ASAP! ;)

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I'm not talking about rushing in its typical form of weak offense and defense for th lvl or rushing as in creating some sort of mini max or defenseless base. I am discussing why so many people rush defenses much quicker then offenses at their respected th lvl, why so many people have max th9 defenses and 10/10 heroes. Pushing offense in front of defense also doesn't require you to barch to survive, my offense is better then my defense and I raid with laloon or really anything because I have all my major troops upgraded for my respective th level. It also doesn't require you to be that active because I am not saying go create a defenseless base I am just saying always keep your offense just out ahead of your defense. Plus there are a ton of terrible attackers in multiplayer so as long as your defenses are on level with your th then you will be able to defend some of your loot some of the time. And just to end I will go on record saying that just upgrading BAM troops and rushing to end game sounds like the most awful way to play this game in my opinion. It may be efficient but I would lose interest too quickly with the repetition of BAM. I like playing with all the different troops and attack strategies using all the game modes, but to each their own.

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Originally Posted by Affront

My philosophy: Spend it early, Spend it fast.

As I'm going to end at the omega point of a fully maxed TH11 in 313.4 days (http://coc.jmjeong.com/) it doesn't really matter what I upgrade next, as long as I keep my Laboratory busy.

In reality, I have some preferred troops and to get those maxed, I need 14+14+14 days (Giants upgrading now, followed by Golems and Minions) and I still need 3.5+5 weeks for the Royals + 6.25 weeks for the Warden .. so, all in all I expect to reach the full (utilized) offensive power of TH11 in a couple of months (bounded by the royals)

Throughout my progression, I've always spend DE as soon as I had enough for an upgrade .. any upgrade and I don't save up for a higher AQ level if I have enough DE to upgrade the King .. spend it early, spend it fast.

/Affront

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This is mostly how I feel too. I tend to prioritize DE lab upgrades that are needed for war over heroes because there are less lab upgrades, but have always prioritized DE to the greatest extent possible since reaching th9. A lot of players fail to realize the importance of maximizing DE profits on every raid at th9+ and don't realize it til they are on the forum starting another new thread that says can I got to th10 with 10/10 heroes....

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Originally Posted by Hatchlhoff

Unfortunately, I think you may draw out an engineering debate with this thread whether that's the intent or not.

Part of the reason why so many people have greater defense than offense stems from the fact that you can have 5 builders. There's a lot of people out there who need to see those builders doing something to feel like they are progressing. I've always been one of those people, could never stand to have them idle, and so it's a good thing that I've always been very active and not afraid to spend a few gems here and there, so my offense isn't lagging too far behind. I've seen a lot of less active people get handcuffed by faster defensive progression and eventually stop playing when raiding becomes impossible for their level.

Because they see their builders being busy, and don't usually research progression strategy or visit the forum until the problem becomes intolerable for them, they feel like it's a fault in the game instead of how they've played it.

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FYI, my 5 builders were always busy...but they were busy upgrading offenses building, collectors and miners first.. results: a rushed (minimax) base. :)


OP statement is correct, I was telling ppl from day one I started playing CoC but lot of ppl disagreed until now more and more rushers join the club.

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Originally Posted by ForgiveMeNot

FYI, my 5 builders were always busy...but they were busy upgrading offenses building, collectors and miners first.. results: a rushed (minimax) base. :)


OP statement is correct, I was telling ppl from day one I started playing CoC but lot of ppl disagreed until now more and more rushers join the club.

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I do want to go on record saying that I am not rushed, imo. I am a th10 and I have many th10 defenses upgraded and basically all my relevant troops/spells upgraded and 40/40 heroes. I would say my mentality is somewhere between a maxer and an engineer. I have never left my builders intentionally idle, not even for walls, because I didn't want to increase my war weight. I just have prioritized point defenses first over splash and inferno, and heroes and lab war upgrades over everything else. Actually I don't think my mild OCD would allow me to leave an idle builder for more then a few hours. My th9.5 is right where I want it to be with both offense and defense moving up in a liner fashion together with offense just a step ahead.

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Originally Posted by WookieFloyd

I'm not talking about rushing in its typical form of weak offense and defense for th lvl or rushing as in creating some sort of mini max or defenseless base. I am discussing why so many people rush defenses much quicker then offenses at their respected th lvl, why so many people have max th9 defenses and 10/10 heroes. Pushing offense in front of defense also doesn't require you to barch to survive, my offense is better then my defense and I raid with laloon or really anything because I have all my major troops upgraded for my respective th level. It also doesn't require you to be that active because I am not saying go create a defenseless base I am just saying always keep your offense just out ahead of your defense. Plus there are a ton of terrible attackers in multiplayer so as long as your defenses are on level with your th then you will be able to defend some of your loot some of the time. And just to end I will go on record saying that just upgrading BAM troops and rushing to end game sounds like the most awful way to play this game in my opinion. It may be efficient but I would lose interest too quickly with the repetition of BAM. I like playing with all the different troops and attack strategies using all the game modes, but to each their own.

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According to wikia:
Total Lab upgrade time is 987.25 days
Total Buildings + Heroes with 5 builders is 719.402 days
Total Defensive buildings only with 5 builders is 437.566 days

If you upgrade everything non-stop, using 5 builders and Lab working 24/7, defensive buildings will always finish first than offensive troops.
People don't necessarily "rush" defenses. It's just the way the game works if you keep all 5 builders and lab working.
The only way to push offensive troops ahead of defensive buildings, is to only upgrade 2 defensive buildings at the same time, leaving 3 builders for other buildings and heroes.
Even then, after 469.726 days, these 3 builders will be done, and you are left with 624.189 days of only using 2 builders to upgrade defensive buildings and leaving 3 builders idle.

Regarding Heroes,
Most casual player just don't prioritize DE farming.
Perhaps because it's harder to farm with DE storages mostly in the center of the base.
Perhaps because they use a DE heavy army to farm it, netting less DE in total.
Thus making them get very small amounts and taking them a long time to farm.

And yes, i agree that rushing with only BAM until end game is an awful way to play.
Don't do this if you can't stand it.
Most hardcore no-lifer that i know, actually got burned out and quit permanently after finishing.
This type of play is not for everyone, you'll get burned out as fast as you can farm those maxed walls.

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Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

Its all about min/maxing lab upgrades and removing the notion of "maxing"

Remember that you don't need every single troop maxed to excel, but you definitely need all CC,camps,lab,sf maxed to attack well. Look far ahead, at TH8 you don't need to max dragons because you'll not be using them afterwards. If you do not plan to war much in TH9, don't max hogs or witches. You basically only need maxed valks, bowlers, laloon to war effectively in TH10. In TH11, its all about bowlers and laloon

After maxing those key priority troops, do not touch those second priority troops. Eg, TH9 doesn't need to upgrade drag/pekka, TH10 doesn't need to max miners/pekka/drag and TH11 doesn't need witches, hogs, miners anymore. Focus on upgrading troops necessary for the next TH level (valks for TH9, laloon for TH10) or predict which troops are getting buffed next and upgrade those. If you always upgrade key troops + second priority troops, you'll always be behind the curve when the next update drops/you reach a new TH level. I always go for: key troops > next TH troops or key troops > predicted troops.

Right now, my main account can choose to max baby drag, drag or pekkas. I chose pekkas because they're the most likely to be buffed next, because drags and baby drags are on the curve of balance while pekkas fall below the curve

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TH9 dont use valks without hogs and golems. So maxing only valks useless. Also you will need to upgrade haste for laloon attack and poison, quake spells to donate. In our clan we also often donate dragons, baby drag, minions for war CC. So it will be better have them upgraded to max 9TH level.

In current meta 80% ground attack using hogs, not valks. Why you advicing people about priority troops in clanwars if you have never used ground attacks?

upgrade all troops upgrade all defenses and heros. at each level... th9 walls lego at least heroes 25

You will be smashed daily by everyone that looks for easy rushed bases

How many trainee and fresh spawn accounts do these rushers have , cut and paste re post.

Sad when you need to spam to get your idea across, even after its been defeated on several threads.

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Originally Posted by juentae

TH9 dont use valks without hogs and golems. So maxing only valks useless. Also you will need to upgrade haste for laloon attack and poison, quake spells to donate. In our clan we also often donate dragons, baby drag, minions for war CC. So it will be better have them upgraded to max 9TH level.

In current meta 80% ground attack using hogs, not valks. Why you advicing people about priority troops in clanwars if you have never used ground attacks?

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TH9 upgrades valks so that you can use them in TH10, not to be used by themselves. You only need laloon for TH9 because you can pack CC golem and anti-air bases can be dealt with easily by your clanmates. Be a specialist, not a generalist. You only need 1-2 army comps and let your clanmates deal with the rest. Why do you need hogs when your other clanmates can cover for you?

Haste lvl1 is plenty for TH11. Lvl2-4 don't do much because loons don't stay in haste long enough in the first place. Quake lvl1 = lvl4, waste of lab time. Poison can be donated to you.

You can definitely max everything, I won't stop you from doing so. But I laugh when I see you upgrading those useless things while I'm in a higher TH level upgrading more relevant things. Continue upgrading your golems, hogs, quake, dragons in TH9, while I use that time to max hounds, loons, bowlers, giants in TH11.

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Originally Posted by LittleMoon

Hey Sin, do you think TH11 is better for loot that TH 10? I've been rushing since I started and I plan to go to th10 soon with 15:15 heroes and all level 9walls. I dont want to spend too much time at th10. Is loot per hour better at th11 or should I stay at th10 ?

I'm interested in walls and max heroes

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In my experience it depends on the power of your farming troops. On my rushed TH11 that farms elixir with mass goblins, loot went down when I went to TH11, partly because I stopped seeing dead TH9s in silver/gold. When I farm with big armies though, like laloon or bdloonspam, with maxed troops, in champs+, the gold and DE I get from TH11s is greater than what I was getting before.

This thread is just so freaking ridiculous.

"won't use drags after th8"
"haste level 1 is just as good as haste level 4"
"don't upgrade golems at th9"


oof

Sure, if you're playing on a second account rush however you like. But if you're really telling new players not to upgrade or use drags, hogs, pekkas, or any other unit you're really screwing them out of a great part of this game, which is army diversity. You can smash bases with just about every higher tiered troop right up until you get to th10. If you wanna rush to th10/11 and never get to play the part of the game where nearly every attack strategy can succeed, then I'm not gonna stop you, but I will let you know that I think you're robbing yourself of some of the funnest parts of the game.

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Originally Posted by Ghnami

This thread is just so freaking ridiculous.

"won't use drags after th8"
"haste level 1 is just as good as haste level 4"
"don't upgrade golems at th9"


oof

Sure, if you're playing on a second account rush however you like. But if you're really telling new players not to upgrade or use drags, hogs, pekkas, or any other unit you're really screwing them out of a great part of this game, which is army diversity. You can smash bases with just about every higher tiered troop right up until you get to th10. If you wanna rush to th10/11 and never get to play the part of the game where nearly every attack strategy can succeed, then I'm not gonna stop you, but I will let you know that I think you're robbing yourself of some of the funnest parts of the game.

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I agree with you 100%, Sin tends to just bias most of his advice towards getting to end game content as fast as possible without being a major determinant to your clan in war. I have really enjoyed my time at th9 and th10, especially th10. IMO, there is a lot of stuff to learn about attacking at each th level that sets you up for success at the next level.

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Originally Posted by WookieFloyd

I agree with you 100%, Sin tends to just bias most of his advice towards getting to end game content as fast as possible without being a major determinant to your clan in war. I have really enjoyed my time at th9 and th10, especially th10. IMO, there is a lot of stuff to learn about attacking at each th level that sets you up for success at the next level.

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Yeah a lot of fun to be had along the way.

Not saying rushing is "wrong" but it's not a one size fits all like Sin often likes to make it out to be.