Possible solution to engineered bases

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Originally Posted by KingKreg

I think it's funny how the people who already built all the defenses call it manipulating and the ones who started a fresh new base after they realized what was going on, call it being smart.

I hate when people say it's like a pro football star playing with high school kids... NO it's like an out of shape fat guy fighting a lean mean fighting machine!!!!!

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Ha ha ha ha..... What utter rubbish, It is manipulating. There is no skill to it, all those people say how difficult it is are talking nonsense, the hardest thing they have to do is watch their bases get raided by 30 goblins and lose a bit of loot, there is no skill to the way they attack, there is no skill in making the decision to build a defenceless base, the people that say it requires skill are the ones who don't have any and as such need to do it as the only way to win in war. And a better analogy would be, it's like Lance Armstrong riding in the Tour de France!

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Originally Posted by NeoGen

Ha ha ha ha..... What utter rubbish, It is manipulating. There is no skill to it, all those people say how difficult it is are talking nonsense, the hardest thing they have to do is watch their bases get raided by 30 goblins and lose a bit of loot, there is no skill to the way they attack, there is no skill in making the decision to build a defenceless base, the people that say it requires skill are the ones who don't have any and as such need to do it as the only way to win in war. And a better analogy would be, it's like Lance Armstrong riding in the Tour de France!

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Don't just be a hater just because your clan is not very good at war.

Nex Addoians

#YJYP2LPY: 161-57 record

Nex Addo

#9Q8RQ999: 109-107 record

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Originally Posted by NeoGen

Ha ha ha ha..... What utter rubbish, It is manipulating. There is no skill to it, all those people say how difficult it is are talking nonsense, the hardest thing they have to do is watch their bases get raided by 30 goblins and lose a bit of loot, there is no skill to the way they attack, there is no skill in making the decision to build a defenceless base, the people that say it requires skill are the ones who don't have any and as such need to do it as the only way to win in war. And a better analogy would be, it's like Lance Armstrong riding in the Tour de France!

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Sumosloth on Engineering
https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...ut-Engineering

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Originally Posted by Johnnyfsullivan

Sumosloth on Engineering
https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...ut-Engineering

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JS: Nice suggested thread, but given the changes made in the October updated, a few of the poster's answers need to be updated, especially regarding his answers to myth 1, 3 and 4.

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Originally Posted by topbtm

Don't just be a hater just because your clan is not very good at war.

Nex Addoians

#YJYP2LPY: 161-57 record

Nex Addo

#9Q8RQ999: 109-107 record

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Your standards are pretty high! I think my clan is decent+ at 214-87-7 overall and 38-12 in our last 50. More importantly to me, though, we get mostly enjoyable wars, with decent targets for most of us (maybe a bit of a logjam in the 8.5 and th8 range). Also mostly competitive wars which either side has a chance of winning: only 2 unwinnable that I can recall, plus several in which we had a pronounced advantage on offense and parity or better on defense.

We were very bad early on. Got better by doing sensible things like pushing heroes and walls hard on our defense-heavy bases; having heavy bases with poor offense, troop-wise or skill-wise, sit out for a while (friendly challenges were a terrific training tool); getting rid of silly inactive patsies at the bottom; developing a number of 8.5 and 9.5, and recently two 10.5. I do have a secondary th10 base with no xbows, but otherwise max th9 defense. 8.99? 9.01?

I would not say we are massively engineered, either; closer to "barely engineered." Think it was TankSinatra who came up with that IMO apt description of our clan. Our few defenseless bases are th8 or lower, and I have real doubt about whether they are helping or hurting. We also encourage maxing at th7, 8, 9, and indeed just had a clanmate hit 30/30 and upgrade to th10 accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Bulldog241

I believe the way it currently works is each base has an offensive weight and a defensive weight, each on a scale of 1-100. I'm sure I'm leaving out some details, but thats the rough idea. Your war weight is a combination of the 2.

Well, stop combining them and instead just use the higher of the 2 as your war weight. That would seem to make engineered bases obsolete pretty instantly, wouldn't it?

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No, the hard core engineers would focus on war offense for most of their bases and focus on defense for their bases on the top. Most extreme would be 50% offenseless and 50% defenseless, overall clan weight would be low in that scenario.

Alternatively, if you mean that each base gets its own weight that's then added to the clan, they could instead just upgrade war-only troops on otherwise offenseless bases. Just dragons/light on a th11, or just bowlers, whatever, just whatever troop combo they want to use, an otherwise not upgrade any troops at all.

Then, of course, we can say "well, why not put a big weight on camps, or heroes, or SF, or lab, etc etc etc". Issue with that is that the clan war MM has to match up a huge number of "normal" bases, ie people who don't think much about war and rush like madmen. If they changed out the war mm completely just to filter out extreme engineers then it would be very likely to screw up things for that silent majority of people who just want to play and have fun.

Nerfedname had a great potential solution a few months ago. He proposed instituting a progressive war weight penalty as offense and defense got further and further out of alignment. So, an early .5 would get hardly any penalty, a permabased .5 with max offense and no defense upgraded would get a pretty decent penalty, and a defenseless th11 would get such a huge penalty that he may as well put down all of his defenses. This is a quite elegant solution, and my only concern about it is that it doesn't directly address heroes. SC has a huge incentive to get people to spend gems on heroes, so I don't think that they would be wise to penalize for having high heroes, but this is one thing that can be very indicative of highly engineered bases...ie, low defense, high offense, and high heroes.

Even engineered clans lose. It's not cheating its strategy. Cheating is using third party apps to get an advantage. It doesn't matter if you engineer because you still have to get 3 stars. Force people to play the game the way you want them to with a gimmick. So if you don't buy any defenses then penalize that player in a clan war match up. As the opponent you get their engineered bases easily with 3 stars. You can still defeat the opponent with better defenses and attack strategy. I disagree with artificially making people fit in your mode so that you make it fair which in turn makes it not fair. So even if you do this somebody will be matched unfairly with somebody who can attack higher based on offenses. Because a no defense account will always have lower defense than offense. Then you are going to complain about that scenario? What is next? There is no easy solution. Your solution of weighting on just either defense or offense will back fire horribly. Because then I will continue to not upgrade my defense still getting matched up with a lower defense opponent, my lower team mates take care of my opponent leaving me with additional attacks to take care of the upper opponents. So to fix engineering you want engineering. You want to stop engineering then just play better than your opponent it is a much easier solution then whining about it being unfair.

Crikey,
I think South West 45 is 136-92-2 these days. Topbtm will tear us apart:saywhat:


On a serious note though. So much can change for any clan over a period of a few months.

Sometimes being through tough times (such as 9 losses in a row) and coming out the other side may make your clan stronger than ever!

:)

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Originally Posted by KingAroth

Even engineered clans lose.

You want to stop engineering then just play better than your opponent it is a much easier solution then whining about it being unfair.

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We warred over the weekend with a big, engineered/defenseless clan. 25v war. Out eagled 2-4, out inferno 16-22. 6 TH11s to 11. Out grand warden attacks 10-20. Opposing clan had 4 defenseless bases in the under 30K defense weight- two were TH11s.

The kind of war that would have posters in here screaming bloody mismatch.

Won going away, 70-61... though they did leave 4 high attacks on the table. Might have made it a few stars closer if they chose to attack.

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Originally Posted by LittleMoon

My whole clan doesnt engineer, only I do and I don't do it to fix matches. I do it because it helps me rush and max walls and heroes faster.

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If that's really what you're doing then it's not engineering, it's strategic rushing.