Engineering is fair play

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January 12th, 2017
daddylindo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holps

Please note the following post reflects a personal view of the writer and in no way purports to represents the view of Supercell, It's Developers or the lady that fills the Coke machine.

War's were meant to be up to 50 player, reasonably matched clans fighting it out in a battle of skill. It truly depresses me that with the exception of the very top war clans it is heading down the route of the contest being decided by who has the more efficiently engineered clan. (Engineering is not and never will be skill)
What is an even more negative reflection on the issue is how many perfectly decent Clashers have felt compelled to join the Engineered crowd and even defend it passionately as a legit tactic when deep down they absolutely know they are exploiting a loophole that's yet to be plugged.
I have no problem at all raising my standard and saying that in the spirit of Classic Clan wars fought face to face until the last second ticks down I personally do not agree it is Fairplay at all.
It is not cheating but it is slowly ruining Clan Wars for all those who choose not to do it. I've said it before, and I stand by it, that Clash is Clan wars for me, and Engineers are a bigger threat to the longevity of the game than Modders ever were. They will quickly alienate and drive away the new Clashers learning this great game and creating clans for the first time, as well as longer term Clashers who cannot afford to grow defenceless TH11's.
Show me an honest clan of 50 war hungry players and I promise you when they find a match many of them will immediately scroll down to the base of the enemies clan to check for TH10's and 11...is that what you envisioned and wanted for Clan wars? I guess if it's a yes then you're an engineer and if not you can come round for a BBQ while we moan about it over a beer.

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love this post.... maybe holps knows something that weeeee doooooont lol.. oh and btw, ive also said id rather play against mods in an evenly matched war than be in an unfairly engineered war. Cant defend against overly strong troops. Even if the mods know where your traps are, they still have the troops that were made to be defended against.
January 12th, 2017
JFSoul

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holps

Please note the following post reflects a personal view of the writer and in no way purports to represents the view of Supercell, It's Developers or the lady that fills the Coke machine.

War's were meant to be up to 50 player, reasonably matched clans fighting it out in a battle of skill. It truly depresses me that with the exception of the very top war clans it is heading down the route of the contest being decided by who has the more efficiently engineered clan. (Engineering is not and never will be skill)
What is an even more negative reflection on the issue is how many perfectly decent Clashers have felt compelled to join the Engineered crowd and even defend it passionately as a legit tactic when deep down they absolutely know they are exploiting a loophole that's yet to be plugged.
I have no problem at all raising my standard and saying that in the spirit of Classic Clan wars fought face to face until the last second ticks down I personally do not agree it is Fairplay at all.
It is not cheating but it is slowly ruining Clan Wars for all those who choose not to do it. I've said it before, and I stand by it, that Clash is Clan wars for me, and Engineers are a bigger threat to the longevity of the game than Modders ever were. They will quickly alienate and drive away the new Clashers learning this great game and creating clans for the first time, as well as longer term Clashers who cannot afford to grow defenceless TH11's.
Show me an honest clan of 50 war hungry players and I promise you when they find a match many of them will immediately scroll down to the base of the enemies clan to check for TH10's and 11...is that what you envisioned and wanted for Clan wars? I guess if it's a yes then you're an engineer and if not you can come round for a BBQ while we moan about it over a beer.

Superb post, Sir Holps. Completely agree. And I'm one of those players who has joined them--but I definitely do not defend them. Comes at a personal integrity cost that is slowly building.
January 12th, 2017
nerfedname

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSeachicken

The fact we're talking about how to structure clans to obtain advantageous matchups by exploiting an algorithm instead of how to raid our equals better is the very definition of the problem and why Super Cell should have taken aggressive action to correct this more than a year ago.

yes.

Furthermore, the fact that anytime a clan leader or person comes here asking for advice on how to improve their war performance the answer is always inevitably to STOP building defenses of any kind and only upgrade offense screams loudly that there is a problem with the matchmaker. The fact that TH10s don't want infernos, and TH11 don't want Eagles because having them in their base HURTS them for war... screams loudly that there is a problem with the matchmaker!

It got better after October (post-March was horrendous), but could probably stand to be improved upon further.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holps

Please note the following post reflects a personal view of the writer and in no way purports to represents the view of Supercell, It's Developers or the lady that fills the Coke machine.

War's were meant to be up to 50 player, reasonably matched clans fighting it out in a battle of skill. It truly depresses me that with the exception of the very top war clans it is heading down the route of the contest being decided by who has the more efficiently engineered clan. (Engineering is not and never will be skill)
What is an even more negative reflection on the issue is how many perfectly decent Clashers have felt compelled to join the Engineered crowd and even defend it passionately as a legit tactic when deep down they absolutely know they are exploiting a loophole that's yet to be plugged.
I have no problem at all raising my standard and saying that in the spirit of Classic Clan wars fought face to face until the last second ticks down I personally do not agree it is Fairplay at all.
It is not cheating but it is slowly ruining Clan Wars for all those who choose not to do it. I've said it before, and I stand by it, that Clash is Clan wars for me, and Engineers are a bigger threat to the longevity of the game than Modders ever were. They will quickly alienate and drive away the new Clashers learning this great game and creating clans for the first time, as well as longer term Clashers who cannot afford to grow defenceless TH11's.
Show me an honest clan of 50 war hungry players and I promise you when they find a match many of them will immediately scroll down to the base of the enemies clan to check for TH10's and 11...is that what you envisioned and wanted for Clan wars? I guess if it's a yes then you're an engineer and if not you can come round for a BBQ while we moan about it over a beer.

YES!

And regarding the part I bolded, I've been consistent in stating exactly that, including in one of the threads Johnny always links:

Quote:

Originally Posted by nerfedname

But come on now, clans full of defenseless accounts and TH11s with TH7 level defenses being counterweighted by 2 max TH11s at the top (to prevent the perfect war) running up 100+ war win streaks roflstomping balanced clans left and right? Is that REALLY what we want the war component of this game to be dominated by?
January 12th, 2017
TullSadum

^^great post holps !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adriel050

Even if supercell adjusts it its still fair. People can still set their TH outside even though its pointless its still possible. Same thing could happen to engineered bases it would be possible but dumb to but it would still be fair

...no it is not comparable, Adriel, and is not fair. TH out is an option for any player, but you cannot un-upgrade defences, you cannot dial down your base, therefore the possibilities in the engeneered vs normal bases are not equal, hence the unfairness.
Please do not confuse "not officially prohibited" with "totally ok and fair"
only because it's not (yet) illegal doesn't automatically make it right,
it's only different shade of wrong and everyone knows that.

Quotes:
Every being in the universe knows the difference between right and wrong (k-pax)
Two lefts don't make a right either (The BFG)

Have Fun
TS
January 12th, 2017
OnyxDS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holps

Show me an honest clan of 50 war hungry players and I promise you when they find a match many of them will immediately scroll down to the base of the enemies clan to check for TH10's and 11...is that what you envisioned and wanted for Clan wars?

Being pedantic, I would say I'm scrolling to the bottom looking for TH3s. They are more of a problem than defenceless TH11s now; at least in our sort of clan environment. The October update seemed to mostly fix lopsiding itself; the zero defence base still has advantages for other reasons.

A question for Holps though... If someone wants to join your clan with a near-max gun TH10 with 10/10 heroes, do you let them war? And if not, why not?
That question is from a looong post of mine a few days ago with my view on engineering.
January 12th, 2017
Holps

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnyxDS

Being pedantic, I would say I'm scrolling to the bottom looking for TH3s. They are more of a problem than defenceless TH11s now; at least in our sort of clan environment. The October update seemed to mostly fix lopsiding itself; the zero defence base still has advantages for other reasons.

A question for Holps though... If someone wants to join your clan with a near-max gun TH10 with 10/10 heroes, do you let them war? And if not, why not?
That question is from a looong post of mine a few days ago with my view on engineering.

I can honestly say I have never rejected a genuine war player from the forums, who wanted to war in the forum clan, based on hero level. We all take the responsibility of offering up the clan for players here to meet other forumers as the major motivation of the clan and winning wars is second.
I have, however,rejected defenceless bases.

Regards the 10/10 hero player of course we would be advising them to swiftly get their offence up to scratch but while we love to win wars It will never be the sole purpose of Clan Wars. Let's be honest...if it was we would be on the engineers boat by now.
January 12th, 2017
Skrags

Terrific stuff from one and all!:thumbsup:
January 12th, 2017
MrJackrabbit

Let those who specialize at war be great at war by having large win streaks. Let those that specialize in trophy pushing be great in legends league. Let those that max be great at defending vs their own th level. Let an average player be average. A single account can't specialize in everything. You get to pick and choose what you want to be great in. Those that do it the longest get the best results.
I applaud clans like #6aymartians for holding their course and having a huge win streak. I applaud those their reach legends league they have strategies too. It doesnt just involve playing a lot. Very, very rarely will you have someone in a clan with a large win streak and in legends league. Most people as in life don't have the discipline to stay the corse long enough to be great. Most then don't blame themselves for the issue but blame they system or that something is unfair whatever it is some else cheated to get where they are. It takes planning and discipline and time to be great and something. If you just want to play and time wasting game which most do then go play and be average.
January 12th, 2017
daddylindo

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit

Let those who specialize at war be great at war by having large win streaks. Let those that specialize in trophy pushing be great in legends league. Let those that max be great at defending vs their own th level. Let an average player be average. A single account can't specialize in everything. You get to pick and choose what you want to be great in. Those that do it the longest get the best results.
I applaud clans like #6aymartians for holding their course and having a huge win streak. I applaud those their reach legends league they have strategies too. It doesnt just involve playing a lot. Very, very rarely will you have someone in a clan with a large win streak and in legends league. Most people as in life don't have the discipline to stay the corse long enough to be great. Most then don't blame themselves for the issue but blame they system or that something is unfair whatever it is some else cheated to get where they are. It takes planning and discipline and time to be great and something. If you just want to play and time wasting game which most do then go play and be average.

Ummmmmm, a moderator and game specialists are saying that engineering is bad for the game, and you come up with this usual "cop out" engineer defense? I'll write it here cuz it has momentum in this thread: Engineering is bad for the game. Period. And it looks like it will be addressed, and I cant wait for that day.
January 12th, 2017
OnyxDS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holps

I can honestly say I have never rejected a genuine war player from the forums, who wanted to war in the forum clan, based on hero level. We all take the responsibility of offering up the clan for players here to meet other forumers as the major motivation of the clan and winning wars is second.
I have, however,rejected defenceless bases.

Regards the 10/10 hero player of course we would be advising them to swiftly get their offence up to scratch but while we love to win wars It will never be the sole purpose of Clan Wars. Let's be honest...if it was we would be on the engineers boat by now.

I do think you're probably in a minority there - even amongst anti engineers. Especially amongst the more serious clans, some of whom might be very sanctimonious about engineering - but might require near max heroes to war. My clan isn't that serious by I wouldn't let an inferno base below 20/20 heroes war with us; more like 25/25 if they had max guns. When someone is total dead weight, it just causes strife with the rest of the clan.

PS - if it sounds like I'm giving the pro-engineering argument, you'll find the tone of the link above quite different probably. And incidentally, not only do I reject any defenceless trying to join us, I pretty much auto-reject even x.5s trying to join (although for existing clan members things are more flexible)

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