Engineering is fair play

Just my 2 cents, i think the first tweaks on combating the engineered effect on war did start with a hit to .5 upgrading, the least form of engineering out there atm. I believe as further updates roll out SC will then start moving on the 'extreme' engineered base be it the defenceless or the TH 11 with max heroes,full cc and spells with enough war troops maxed to add the extra two attacks to the top of the war roster. Why you ask, because ultimately the minority will ruin the fun and enjoyment of the majority either by players and clans losing interest(not a good idea) or clans going totally TH 11 only in wars (limiting participation of lower halls, sounds great). This is not to say that people should not upgrade their account how they want, but when an individual and or a clan do it solely for the war side manuipilation that then cheapens the game and all that the game brings to all its clashers. Where else in this game either in farming or pushing can you engineer your base to get around the penalty of attacking a lower townhall but yet somehow SC currently feels the current system that rewards this is ok, lol currently...., clash on

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Originally Posted by SupremeCleave

goat herd doesnt allow engineered bases? Why? One or two engineers from the forums isnt going to make you automatically win wars lol

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It's a principal and I am very aware of how many defenceless or heavily engineered bases are needed to genuinely affect the MM - especially in a 50 player clan. I am very public in my views on Engineered clans, and players who feel it is a legit way to war absolutely will check the forum clan to make sure we do not engage in it...
There have already been posts here claiming hypocrisy over some Forum players choosing to go the .5 route but all players who are debating this seriously know that is very different to having TH11's facing TH8's.

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Originally Posted by Chang405

Hard to blame themselves when SC has not explained how MM is done. If MM was more precise people wouldn't need to worry about whether putting down extra walls is a good idea or when they should drop key defenses.

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This is a subject that has continually been discussed, with multiple viewpoints from either side of the engineering spectrum.

Many players want complete MM transparency, while many others (such as myself) do not.

A hyper engineer (who will remain nameless) continually called for MM transparency on these forums. His argument was that it 'would even out the playing field' to those suffering matches against engineers.

By his own admission however, he acknowledged that 'Engineering' would expand exponentially. And therein lies the issue.


Not every player/every clan has the time, or inclination to delve into the detail to facilitate optimum war weight efficiency. The majority just want to have fun, and enjoy their clashing experience.

If engineering gets 'out of the control' , then the longevity of the game WILL suffer, for players old and new.
For those that care about the game as a whole, this is a picture, that I'd rather not see painted!

Just my thoughts... I know many disagree!:)

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Originally Posted by Skrags

This is a subject that has continually been discussed, with multiple viewpoints from either side of the engineering spectrum.

Many players want complete MM transparency, while many others (such as myself) do not.

A hyper engineer (who will remain nameless) continually called for MM transparency on these forums. His argument was that it 'would even out the playing field' to those suffering matches against engineers.

By his own admission however, he acknowledged that 'Engineering' would expand exponentially. And therein lies the issue.


Not every player/every clan has the time, or inclination to delve into the detail to facilitate optimum war weight efficiency. The majority just want to have fun, and enjoy their clashing experience.

If engineering gets 'out of the control' , then the longevity of the game WILL suffer, for players old and new.
For those that care about the game as a whole, this is a picture, that I'd rather not see painted!

Just my thoughts... I know many disagree!:)

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This isn't just to you skrags.... But alot of guys talk about this...

Ok here's the question that no one has really touched on... What do you foresee happening that will effect the longevity of this game?

What will it actually come down to?

My theory when we started engineering was if we couldn't get a perfect war or damn close... We were doing something wrong. Or should I say we had to many defenses. And as we started getting plenty of perfect wars, we added defense. In my eyes that was how a winning elite war clan should be ran.

I'm trying to come up with scenarios of the future... There will only ever be a small percentage of good engineers. So maybe you start seeing a few decent defenseless th11s. The majority of these guys aren't good attackers and if they're only sitting on 10/10/5 they aren't capable of much if you have any decent th10s or above. But this brings me back to my theory... If you are loosing by lack of stars, get better offense... If you are loosing because the enemy is ripping through your defense... Add defense.

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Originally Posted by Skrags

Many players want complete MM transparency, while many others (such as myself) do not.

A hyper engineer (who will remain nameless) continually called for MM transparency on these forums. His argument was that it 'would even out the playing field' to those suffering matches against engineers.

By his own admission however, he acknowledged that 'Engineering' would expand exponentially. And therein lies the issue.

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I understand the points from both sides of the argument, and I waffle back and forth over which side I agree with.

Having said that- when I stand back and look at the entire picture... I find it completely astonishing. We are all playing, and hooked on a game where a) the developers won't tell you how the wars are matched b) at any point and time, the variables used to determine whether you are a strong player or a weak player... whether your clan is on the correct path or not- can and will change c) you have no back or remove button should you progress your game play and then find out the game itself has been reinvented.

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Originally Posted by cnaf

I understand the points from both sides of the argument, and I waffle back and forth over which side I agree with.

Having said that- when I stand back and look at the entire picture... I find it completely astonishing. We are all playing, and hooked on a game where a) the developers won't tell you how the wars are matched b) at any point and time, the variables used to determine whether you are a strong player or a weak player... whether your clan is on the correct path or not- can and will change c) you have no back or remove button should you progress your game play and then find out the game itself has been reinvented.

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When you break it down like that, cnaf, makes you wonder why any sane person would continue to play!

Ignorance is bliss...

I would guess the regulars on this forum spend more time thinking about the game. The average casual player logs on, plays, chats, and is not aware that there is an engineering issue.

Ignorance is bliss....

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

.5 is engineering - letting your understanding of the matchmaker drive your upgrade decisions. It also becomes lopsided very quickly. If you upgrade the big offense for your townhall but don't drop the big defense? Lopsided.

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As the offensive upgrades go much slower (lab and heroes) than dropping your inferno's immediately when you come to TH10, you become lopsided the other way around very fast and become an disadvantage in the matchmaking and a liability for your clan immediately. Starting with your offensive strength is not engineering but using common sense if you want to be able to beat your mirror on the warmap.

It's just another sequence in upgrading to max, in the meanwhile giving you an advantage in wars instead of a disadvantage.

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Originally Posted by Mandurang

As the offensive upgrades go much slower (lab and heroes) than dropping your inferno's immediately when you come to TH10, you become lopsided the other way around very fast and become an disadvantage in the matchmaking and a liability for your clan immediately. Starting with your offensive strength is not engineering but using common sense if you want to be able to beat your mirror on the warmap.

It's just another sequence in upgrading to max, in the meanwhile giving you an advantage in wars instead of a disadvantage.

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Exactly, .5 is letting the MM guide your upgrades. Which is the only definition of "engineering" that's ever made sense. From there, we're just talking about the degree of engineering.

If .5 is done in a balanced fashion, you'll be .5 for maybe a month out of the year or two you'll spend at th9. This is mild engineering, generally accepted by the community for whatever that's worth (nothing), and done by very few. Because once you've gotten used to generally drawing a lower th opponent, perhaps hitting up the roster, most delay dropping xbows further. They're now lopsided, pile on more offense, start drawing mature th9s, start complaining about it on the forum.

As to making MM rules public, I think SC has it right. Currently its very difficult to figure out, and the tiny few who do keep their mouths shut or get drowned out in the noise on this forum. That's better than drawing everyone a map as to how to engineer.

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Originally Posted by cnaf

I understand the points from both sides of the argument, and I waffle back and forth over which side I agree with.

Having said that- when I stand back and look at the entire picture... I find it completely astonishing. We are all playing, and hooked on a game where a) the developers won't tell you how the wars are matched b) at any point and time, the variables used to determine whether you are a strong player or a weak player... whether your clan is on the correct path or not- can and will change c) you have no back or remove button should you progress your game play and then find out the game itself has been reinvented.

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I think (c) is the crucial one. Certainly the combination of b+c is bad... they might change the rules, and your base might be irreversibly ruined under the new rules.

But (c) is kind of a problem even outside engineering. Plenty of people have upgraded TH to 10 or 11 or whatever, and then decided they regret it. The fact is that war is a very different game at each TH from 7 to 11 (I don't really know what happens below 7). And there's no way to go back and play one of the other games - if I decide I'd like to play TH9 wars because they were fun, then the entry fee is several thousand dollars or several thousand hours. by starting a new account. Hmmm.