Whatttttttttttttttt did you do to match making?
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Whatttttttttttttttt did you do to match making?
Hello,
I didn't do anything, but Cleggy often has a hand in misdemeanours of the Clashing world.
What's your roster like?
Do you have any engineered, X.5 bases?
Have members of your clan suddenly taken to attacking while blindfolded?
#blamecleggy
We do have some .5's. Two of them really, we run 10/15 man wars.
Two full on .5's and me and another haven't built the new bomb towers..
We keep getting clean aced except for our two TH10's...
Well it is self explanatory then. You tried to manipulate the mm, and got screwed in the process, due to the change in the mm algorithm. Time to build balanced bases.Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzdla
Think I can tell you exactly what's going on here, if I understand you right. Metamucil runs 10 mans constantly, usually with one .5. The engineering is a little bit effective, but sometimes gives us a disadvantage at the top (enemy gets an extra full th10), might be worse for you if you bring two.Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzdla
More importantly, expect to have your th9s flattened and th10s 2 starred. If you fail to clear the enemy th9s and 2 star the th10s, I'll be surprised if you can hang on to that 80% win rate. On the other hand if you reliably put 3 on the th9s and high percentage 2s on the th10s, you can probably get that win rate to 90% (every once in a while you'll get a bad match, or someone that can triple your 10s).
Not trying to hold onto 80% but.. if we move into 20%.. that that that that's ALL FOLKS !!
I've been debating dropping the .5's and seeing what happens, I might get them to upgrade.
Shame I put so much time into my queen... seems her weight might also be killing us :S.. now that is going to suck if I put all this time and $ in and I need to be dropped from war because I bring hefty targets .. :S. We are by no means a hardcore clan and never will be, we are just all IRL friends, most this is their first and only comp/phone game.
Yes, what happened to the matchmaking logarithm? We are completely outmatched at the top.
15 vs 15
My team roster (current war win streak 8)
1. TH10 max defense except for wiz towers, 90% lava walls, 40 / 40
2. TH10 max defense, 60% lava walls, 30 / 38
3. TH10 TH9 defense, lvl 1 infernoes, 80% lava walls, 40 / 40
4. TH10 fresh, no infernoes, 80% lava walls, 30 / 33
5. TH10 fresh, no infernoes, 80% lava walls, 20% magma walls, 31 / 34
6. TH10 fresh, no infernoes, 80% lava walls, 26 / 30
7. TH9 max defense, 90% lava walls, 30 / 30
8. TH9 max defense, 70% lava walls, 25 / 25
9. TH9 max defense, 30% lava walls, 25 / 25
10. TH9 mid defense, xbows lvl 2, 30% lava walls, 27 / 26
11. TH9 mid defense, xbows lvl 2, 10% lava walls, 24 / 26
12. TH9 max defense, 20% lava walls, 14 / 14
13. TH9 mid defense, xbows lvl 1, 10% lava walls, 21 / 23
14. TH8 max defense, 80% black skull walls, 10
15. TH9 defenseless, 30 / 30
Opponent's roster (current war win streak 7)
1. TH11 max defense, 60% magma walls, 45 / 45 / 20
2. TH11 mid defense, no EA, 50% lava walls, 25 / 28 / 10
3. TH10 mid defense, 70% lava walls, 24 / 25
4. TH10 fresh, no infernoes, 10% lava walls, 19 / 23
5. TH9 max defense, 80% lava walls, 17 / 21
6. TH9 max defense, 30% lava walls, 20 / 21
7. TH9 max defense, 60% lava walls, 18 / 22
8. TH10 max TH9 defenses, 10% lego walls, 11 / 12
9. TH11 max TH8 defenses, 1x lvl 4 xbow, 1x lvl 3 xbow, 90% lego walls, 10 / 13 / 5
10. TH10 max TH8 defenses, 1x lvl 3 xbow, 1x lvl 2 xbow, 50% black skull walls, 9 / 6
11. TH10 max TH9 defenses, both xbows lvl 3, 10% lego walls, 10 / 7
12. TH10 max TH9 defenses, no xbows, 50% black skull walls, 10 / 13
13. TH9 max TH8 defeneses, both lvl 2 xbows, 30% black skull walls, 8 / 10
14. TH9 max TH7 defeneses, no xbows, 50% black skull walls, 6 / 6
15. TH3 defenseless
At first glance, it seems like we were up against a clan with many rushed bases. But what really matters is the top. Out of 6 TH10s, 4 were already 3 starred. They have the rest of the engineered bases to slowly pick apart our TH9s and below. It looks like a daunting task right now. 21 stars (10/30 attacks) vs 41 stars (25/30 attacks).
IMO, matchmaking shouldn't be based on the whole roster, but the top half of it where it matters most. If the top half is equally matched, it doesn't matter how much lopsided bases or roster engineering you do at the bottom, you have an equal chance to beat your opponents.
What exactly is your roster? Because like tank says...Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzdla
Killing everything except the TH10s sounds normal unless, maybe, you are 2 TH10 13 full TH9s. But we see a lot of simple vomit attacks tripling TH9s now, so clearing them is entirely possible with minimal TH10 help.Quote:
Originally Posted by TankSinatra
If you give us a complete list of defence weights, TH and heroes we can maybe advise better.
PS - not building the bomb towers is almost certainly a good thing. The x.5s... maybe. They are unlikely to be much of an advantage. They might be a disadvantage if in the wrong place.
That one seems pretty easy to diagnose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yachi
Total BK levels you/them = 403/232
Total AQ levels = 414/252
It's what my clan calls a "heroes vs infernoes" war (playing with 9.5s up top). Heroes always win
Although in your case since their extra defence does seem to mostly be concentrated in spot 1, it is a lot more problematic.Quote:
We are completely outmatched at the top.
I sure hope that is true, because we are wrecking our brains right now on how to deal with the top. Any mistake will be costly. And the search didn't even take that long. I was pretty sure it was about 30 mins of search. How in the world heroes weigh so much now?Quote:
Originally Posted by OnyxDS
That would be SuperCell's attempt at going after lopsided bases. Making sure that the TH11 that weighs 30K (defensively) and sports 35/35/20 is well accounted for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yachi
Our 10Mans are as follows:
1: TH10, almost all lightening walls, perhaps 50 legos, 30 lavas. 28BK, 33 AQ
2: TH10, all legos, 80 lightening. 25 BK, 37AQ
3: TH9 maxed, lvl 20 heros. ALmost all eletric
4: TH9 maxed, lvl 20 heros Almost all electric
5. TH10, just got there, 5 spells, maxed TH9 . Almost all half lego/ half electric
6. TH9 maxed, lvl 18 herso, half lego/electric
7. TH9 maxed, lvl 18 herso, all legos say around 80 electric
8. TH9 maxed, lvl 18 herso, all legos say around 80 electric
9. TH9 full on .5, no Xbows, no upgraded defenses, 20/20 heros, legos and around 80 electric
10. Depends, maxed TH8 or a new ish TH9.
Our TH9's have serious issues acing other TH9's with half legos/electric.. if you have purple walls well it's over but we haven't faced anyone with purple walls in.. over half a year. It is utterly amazing to watch the other teams TH9's clean sweep ours but it does get pretty blah.. Some times I swear a certain mod is still being used.
Ugly match, a th8-10 clan will sometimes draw a th11 on the other side and you've just got to deal, seeing two is nasty. On your roster, the 3 fresh th10s stick out - fresh ths are a disadvantage, temporarily going .5 (no infernos yet) mitigates the damage somewhat but makes the accounts lopsided very quickly as you upgrade offense. This might make you look like an engineered/lopsided clan to the matchmaker, increasing the chance you match other engineers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yachi
As to matching the top half - there are many deceptive things about matchmaking and clan wars. One that you're probably aware of is roster positioning being indicative of defense weight only, leading to a lot of people overestimating the effectiveness of lopsided/defenseless bases.
Another illusion is that only the top matters - that's what it looks like at the end of war, but if you make the other guy's middle/bottom struggle, make them waste more attacks on dips, that can prevent an extra star on top. On the other hand, if my th9s clear their th9s first shot then put second attacks into two starring the th10s, now my th10s have the luxury of going for 3 on a scouted base. End result will look like it was decided strictly at the top, but that's far from true.
You've said what your problem is yourself - "Our TH9's have serious issues acing other TH9's with half legos/electric".Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzdla
My clan doesn't have the best attackers, at TH9 they mostly struggle to triple equal weight bases. That is the reason for us losing some wars, not that our opponents are cheating. Luckily, there are a lot of clans of lesser ability out there so we still win more than we lose.
Would everyone moving to TH10 and building infernos be a fix? I have been debating this. We'd get owned for a couple months I know that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspex
Youtube: daddylindo5. I show beautiful th9 attacks there and explain them. Stop using valks ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzdla
Will most certainly do. Do you make TH10 vids too?Quote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
Nope I have not mastered th10 yet. I have a th11 and 3 th9's. Ive mastered th9. I do wanna bring my biggest 9 to 10 cuz i like that walking queen drag attack they did in that streamed war last month.Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzdla
We've had mostly fair matches.
last war we were out classed and the smoked us. They got 42/45 stars in a 15v15. We struggled to get 38. But most of time we have had very fair wars and the team that didn't screw up attacks won.
I don't think you are alone here. Lots of TH9's struggle to 3 star their 'own weight', especially when given a slightly uncomfortable anti 3 star base to attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspex
What happened to 'The General' and 'V-Moat' that we all used to see in every war? I miss them bases! XD
If they are struggling at TH9 then I'm not sure that moving up to 10 would help. That said, if they could reliably 2 star at 10 then it may not be the worst thing, although you would almost be guaranteed a loss against any clan that could manage TH10 triples.Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzdla
I agree. Th10 is a commitment that not everyone is up to. Master th9 first. Also, I would recommend getting your queens closer to 30 before you go up there, and I would also recommend maybe sending your better attackers up there first or else you're gonna create problems for yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspex
As others have said, you have kind of diagnosed the problem yourself. It's exaggerated since you have quite a flat lineup with a lot of strong TH9s and limited ability for people to hit up and down.Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzdla
I would say we see some enemy clans that seem to have got the rhythm of a particular vomit attack (by which I mean the hghb style attack where there are multiple troops, but they are all dumped in one spot with no idea where they're going) and clear every TH9 with it. Last war our enemy used some sort of hghvb to kill all our TH9s, with most of theirs hitting well up the list. Virtually the same troops for every attack, and all dropping in a very similar style. They'd just got the hang of that attack.
Then they tried the exact same thing against our 9.5s... oops.
High TH9 can be tough. Bluntly a lot of the solution is attacking and defending better. Improving heroes will help - 30/30 is MUCH easier when hitting a max TH9 than 18/18. Your TH9's heroes aren't bad, but they could be better. One other option is to get your TH9s to 2* enemy TH10s and let your TH10s use both attacks beating up enemy TH9s.
No. No, no, no. There is almost no problem to which infernos is the answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzdla
With good bases you enemies would struggle to 3* you. But you'd really struggle to 3* any of them. 3* is HARD at TH10. If you think TH9 is tough - it's VERY different to TH9. Your best case scenario would be a 2* slug-fest.
What is a hghb and hghvb?
HGHB or it's many variants is not a spam attack. People that 3 star with it understand pathing/funneling and the different roles for the troops. It's a high quality attack that can even 3 star maxed 9.5s if executed properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnyxDS
hghb = healers, giants, hogs bowlers. What it really means is a bit of funneling first, maybe with babies, then ~10 giants, some healers, heroes and CC bowlers all spammed in one place. No wb or jumps, just let the giants fight their way through the wall. The heroes and bowlers might need to be delayed until after the giants have broken the wall. I think typically 3 heal, 1 rage, 2 poison spells. Then some hogs to use round the side/back, probably with 2 of the heals.Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzdla
I don't think hghvb is a standard term, but our last enemy were doing something like that but with valks as well in the spam group. IIRC they had 2 versions, one with giants and 1 without.
I'm sure you'll find plenty about them on youtube. I'm not really an expert on these - they only became popular after I'd gone to TH10
I have one of those on my youtube page. I explain funneling in most of my videos as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzdla
I like HGHB for mid/early th9s. I don't think its spam, its pretty similar in form to a 3 golem gohog - need to funnel, take out key stuff (aq cc), second phase hogs dodge or preheal the bombs. I do think its not the best vs mature th9s, lego/lava walls stall the giants in the middle and you can't bring enough hogs to make up for it.
I've had better luck with two gols, cc bowlers, maybe 8 wiz 4 wbs ton of hogs. Bring a jump, 2 heals/1 rage or 3 heals (depends on how much I think i can get out of raging the bowlers.)
Golaloon is also very strong right now, fly over those walls.
Before I recently became addicted to loons I ran hghb all the time. When they have max walls i take a couple extra giants. However, hghb is no good for very compartmentalized bases where the wizards can potentially kill the defenses behind the walls the giants are beating, then theyll stop beating those walls and go somewhere else, which is a debacle. If they have large boxed bases where the giants and bowlers can really roam around, those bases are perfect for hghb. BUT, Im using loons for all 3 of my th9's, there's no reason for me not to. And there is no such thing as anti-air :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TankSinatra
Those lower 10s and especially the 11 will clean out all the 9s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yachi
thats a tough one and we all know that heroes mean little in war if you can use other more powerful troops to get 3 stars
SC needs to start matching the LAB and the SPELLS. If they have a TH 10 LAB they need the war weight of a TH 10. If they have a TH 11 and the defense of an 8 with max LAB they get TH 11 war weight
Problem solved
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrags
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspex
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnyxDS
Th9 is pretty soft right now. It is the number one reason I am considering moving up to TH10. That said, if you are having trouble hitting across at TH9, you definitely should not be thinking of TH10. If you move up, you will mostly be trying to 2 star the TH10 across from you. You should be able to do that now. Stay at TH9 and when you get the occasional TH10 opponent, just focus on the 2 star attack. By the time our TH9s hit across, all TH9 bases have already been 2 starred by TH8s. The lower THs are so unbalanced now that we have plenty of attacks left over.Quote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
One point that has been made in other threads, but should be repeated here is to manage your roster so that you are easy to match with other clans of similar composition. 10 and 15 size wars help. Keeping a three TH spread in a roughly bell curve will also help (e.g. 25% TH8, 50% TH9, 25% TH10). If the system cannot find an ideal match, it will give you the best it can find. That may result in a mismatch and may not take long to find. The system has a series of "check boxes" that categorize your clan. If you are very spread out or if you are too narrow in composition, that is hard to match perfectly. Try to look like other clans and you will have a better shot at a good match.
The giants, bowlers, heroes and wizards are your kill squad. The hogs take out defenses as the giants distract. It's not much different from goho in concept. You don't need wallbreakers because the giants will chew through the walls. Wizards and/or baby dragons can be used to funnel depending on layout. As long as the healers survive, you will tear through any townhall 9. Just like any attack, if you understand how the troops will path, you can execute a 3 star. The only times that it fails is if the bowlers separate from the giants. The best thing about it is you don't need big heroes. Even sub level 10 heroes can get it done. Lastly, it's great against so called anti 3 designs because there usually isn't enough DPS to take out your kill squad at any point.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnyxDS
One other thing that people dont realize about this attack is you wanna rage the healers, not the giants. If he has valks and a baby drag come out and the poison is not down and healers not raged, all your giants are dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
Yup, and then some smartass engineer will come up an offenseless base, with th4 offense with th10 defense that will match other th4s...Quote:
Originally Posted by WH7DX
News for you: offense strength is very much taken into account already. Many just don't see it because they keep using the flawed method of comparing mirror bases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by topbtm
This seems like a viable engineering plan... :S.. Spend a ton of $ on a pure max defensive TH11, zero offense.. use a shield :S.. Good thing it would be widly expensive to implement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspex
Nonsense, both of you. Don't you guys know, ALL TH9s regardless of weight and base layout are easily cleared for 3* on the 1st hit. Or at least that's the impression I get from the forum keyboard warriors... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Skrags
I suppose one could say they SHOULD be cleared, TH9 defense isn't particularly good at this point, but many players still struggle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nerfedname
lol ya really.. It is very rare any of our TH9's can clear a maxed TH9.
We usually have our 1 TH9 attempt dragon attacks on the other two TH10's if he 2 stars me and the other TH10 ace 3,4,5,6. 1 star we play it as it goes, 0 star and we take 1,2,3,4. Had been successful for some time.. until our recent 5 loss in a row ordeal :S..
Ideally, your rage hits giants, healers and bowlers. Any ground based defensive troop gets killed easily by bowlers. The best defensive troops against HGHB is balloons.Quote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
We have several mid level townhall 9s capable of 3 starring maxed townhall 9s. Dragons tend to be a weak troop for 3 starring. They are too slow and require poor AD placement. Your clan just needs to learn better strategies.Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzdla
It's kind of amazing that you sport an 80% win rate if you can't clear all of the townhall 9s. It just means you've been getting really easy opponents.
Of course if u can fit both, but the healers are more important. I disagree with the loons baby drags are where its at. And dont you dare put balloons in your castle with loon attacks on the incline ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
BAck to the op .. I don't know that matching your lineup can be the sole cause of a losing streak .. personally I don't discount bad luck in matching on such a small sample size but our clan runs very much the same lineup . Our overall record is is a 72.7percent win rate but we have won 8 of 10 in each of the last three 10 match segments . BAsed on this I find it difficult to accept that your lineup would make you systematically lose . NOte to others , I have seen people say that that " 9.5" has been hurt but we still win 8 of 10 .
Our lineup
#1 a 9.5 .. all level 10 walls , spells camps and cc at th10 level , most important offence upgraded , only a few teslas and bombs and traps upgraded beyond max th9 level.. heros at 30-31
#2 a premature 9.5 ish -- level 9 walls ( a few at level10 or 8 ) one xbow only at level 2.. alll hidden teslas , and several archer towers upgraded beyond th9 .. almost all offence at th10 level .. heros at 16 and 20
#3 maxing th9 .. walls 85 percent level10 .. heros at 21 and 25 .. everything else max th9
then we roster between 2-4 "max" th9 except heros in the teeens and walls mostly level 9
then 1-3 fresher to mid th9 ( Weakest had some level 8 walls and HEROS at 10-5 )
then usually 2-4 th8 that range from a near maxxed to reasonably fresh
then we add in our th7 or our th6 or 5 if we need accounts to make 15
we war three times a week at either 10v 10 or 15v 15 and our matches have been fine
our current match ??
they have two th10 with infernos at levels two and three and only one of those has a good th10 offence mix . Their walls are weak pretty much across the board and heros are generally weaker but on the map we look similar with two th10 , 4 th9 and , 4 th8 . I look at this match as pretty typical .. the opponent has stronger defense but our 30-31 hero guy has no difficulty achieving a good two star on most full th10 . MAtching wise we could be in trouble if their th10 offense player could triple our two bases that are not that far above max th9 defensively but frankly that has rarely been the case . It's a war on the matching we could win and we could lose so to me it's a fair match. If we want less chance our top bases get tripled we need to build more defenses which is what we are doing .. we are just avoiding the infernos and xbows until we get more of the other point defenses done
PS
a lot of people talk about triples on th9 .. we have many in our clan that still struggle to do that .. in our current war our number 4 account ( heros at 13 and 13 ) this war has just done first hit attacks with 90 and 91 percent on two of their th9 and this is pretty typical for him as he might score a first hit three about 25 percent . BUt I used our number three account ( heros at 21-25 ) to triple an unattacked th9.
i would say that my personal overall record with that account is probably around 80-90 percent since the toughest th9 get taken out by the th10 offense of the 9.5 ( my first hit record is similar since I assess what I can kill with a th9 or where a scout might help and what base might need the extra power of a th 10 offense to kill for certainty ) SOme claim it's easy but on a first strike but personally , I do screw up sometimes . I would say that percentage of getting threes across our clan goes down with hero level and varies a bit with attacks style . OUr GOHO guy ( not in this war ) usually gets a th9 for three about 70 percent of the time but usually that's a second try hit . OUr guys that do GOWIPE variants tend to clear th nine far less . OUr weakest and newest th nine has never cleared a real nine and we know this so he gets cleanup duty down low or "scout high " duties usually . We are fairly casual and don't claim mad skills so we can work with our team even if they are not great players .
Good luck with that. No offense and heavy defense. Hahahahahaha. Please! Have fun farming and staying alive as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by topbtm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flubber41
You want 3s on the 9s..... max bowlers in the cc. 5 valks, 2 golems, 8 wiz, 5 wbs, a couple archers, the rest hogs. Spells are 1 jump 3 heal and 2 poison.
Attack the AQ, CC Xbow and a set of bombs if you can. Certainly the AQ and CC and Xbow. Blow the walls and jump in with main troops after cleaning the side with the wiz. Drop it all except for the hogs. Use 1 poison. Once the aq and cc down go in with all the hogs on the right or left side and drop the heals as they work around. Drop the last poison on any skels that pop up.
Hahahaha you made my day. 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrags
Funny I hear the same thing about defenseless base...they get destroyed in farming....yet they are not exactly rare. War is only what matters, and don't laugh at offenseless base...they may be the next big target of anti-engineers.Quote:
Originally Posted by WH7DX
Thats because they can farm what they need to survive. Try going the other way with garbage offense and max defense and see how many follow.........
Just do more LAB and SPELL matching and we've solved most of the problem. Not hard to take a TH 11 with ♥♥♥♥ except for max Drags and Light and say... Oh Boy.. you get matched with a solid TH 10 lol.
And the point right now is... give up the 3 and get the 6 up high.
A strong defense will still have plenty of weight so if they keep their LAB 2 LVs low I dont imagine them having much fun attacking.
SC just needs to check the war weight with TH lv against the LAB and SPELLs.
Never said 6 balloons was a great idea. However it's the best defense against HGHB. Instant death to giants if they get too far from the healers. Baby dragon is easier to handle for HGHB.Quote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
No way are balloons better than a baby drag and 2 valks for a pack of giants.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
Valks get wrecked by the bowlers. Non factor. Baby dragon is good but it doesn't do enough damage to kill a group of giants. 6 balloons can 1 shot a group of giants. Mispaced or slow poison combined with slow rage on the healers = dead giants.Quote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
I will go with Wardictator on this. Valk will bet killed by bowlers.
Yeah if you funnel properly which 90% of players dont. If those bowlers arent in position, the giants will be obliterated and it will be a scrambke for two stars. But i bet you'll wish you had that baby drag when you get lalooned :)Quote:
Originally Posted by topbtm
We've done hundreds of HGHB raids. The only effective CC is 6 balloons. Otherwise it's just bad pathing that dooms the raid.Quote:
Originally Posted by topbtm
How about get zero star on attack, but don't give 3 stars while wasting many enemy's attacks?Quote:
Originally Posted by WH7DX
BTW, give up the 3 and get the 6 up high -- is a myth and flawed strategy when mm is considered. For that reason, we stress in my clan to never gives up stars easily no matter where the base is on the war map.
Agree to disagree. By the time those loons make it across that poison bath thats now the size of lake michigan, theyll have no life left and the wizards will finish the job in an instantQuote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
back to the original idea that their 9.5s disadvantage them in matching .. I have to challenge that . We have just finished our 8 win in 9 matches and second perfect offense war in the last three. Our two top accounts can each handle th10 bases that we are drawing ( weak defenses except for the level 3 infernos ) . THis war it helped that one of their guys made a variation on the Internet " four corners " base and their other packed his defenses so tightly it seemed he hadn't heard of a freeze or bowlers .
but bottom line is our 9.5 or low weight infernoless th10 are drawing th 10 top ends with some weaknesses . The matches seem fair . we have just been surprised at the frequency at which th10 level offence fails to three our top two bases . Most wars we thee star everything except the top two and then it's just a matter if we can get those bases or not . Opponets willltypically have two accounts with at least War attack style maxxed for th10 ( but heros may be weaker than ours )
I actually have wondered if we have accidentally hit a sweet spot in the matching ..maybe most of the more expert 9.5 folks have dropped infernos or xbows in accordance with the latest advise in places like this and we are matching either people not aware of this or folks that rushed their xbow and infernos ... either way we have had a lot of matches lately which were objectively fair but where we won by several stars with many of our bases not tripled
Take a look at my clan's current war situation posted on first page of this thread.
Current score 41 / 42 (94.53% / 93.60%) with one more attack on our end that could level things and win by percentage. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Update: We lost. Not to engineering but just bad matchmaking. Really needs a fix
Lol buddy, very good:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by nerfedname
Let us not forget the publically available stats on historic CWL TH9 3 star attacks, which were, if memory serves me right, running at about 45% before the December update.
That's "some" of the best TH9 attackers around, in some of the best War clans, often with 30/30 Heroes.....45%...
Also, defensive base building meta, always lags behind offence strategy.
The HGHB TH9 attack strategy became very popular in 2016, and still is. BUT, even before the nerf to Double Giant Bombs, there was a TH9 defensive move away from DGB's to 4 single bomb locations, to specifically thwart HGHB.
With the rebalancing of Loons post update, it will be interesting to see how defensive base building evolves at TH9, especially with Air defence position.
CC loons is effective if someone is hitting the base head on, and bum rushing your core CC.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
If your CC is pulled in any shape or fashion... and loons come out... from how we do it/see it in wars- doesn't matter if its an AQ/healer deployed, all the way to a standard CC takedown in the corner. Two Lake Ontario poisons placed in a stagger of their exit path from the CC- and its gg.
Want to tell me somebody is attacking with EQ's and no poisons... well, that's another story.
Even if the attacker rushes in (which is probably the case for hghb variants) I'm not convinced the loons get to shoot if the poison is used properly. I always tell people the first poison should be down BEFORE the first troop emerges from the CC. If it wasn't, then the raid wasn't planned properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by cnaf
The loon buff certainly helped CC loons greatly, but I'm still not sure it made them effective.
An interesting discussion. Speaking from my own clan's experience, and assuming taking on the CC on the fly, I often note (and I've done this too many times), that the problem is often in the execution of a 'solid' plan rather than the plan itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnyxDS
Or, in actual fact, am I just admitting to myself that the plan just wasn't good enough to start with?
Certainly "being late" with the Poison spell(s) can be fairly common, both in our attacks, and those of our opponents.
I suppose this depends upon the nature of the attack, but there's often a lot going on during those few seconds!
It's two fold there. We all know it, but some tend to forget. Poison not only kills troops, but slows them down. So the pre-drop ensures maximum amount of time for them to move like they are stuck in mud.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrags
Well, I'm exaggerating a bit in saying it's bad planning. But it can often be avoided by better planning - do you know which buildings are in the CC radius when attacking? Do you know which troop is expected to hit the radius first?Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrags
One example - last war I knew after my golem went through the wall it would be out of radius at first gun, and trigger as it went sideways to second (or if it headed further in, if bowlers got second gun first). So that gun dying is the CC trigger. But... I sent a spare wb in - which went through and did a complete trigger of the CC; hence a panicky, late poison drop by me. If I'd thought that through beforehand I could have either sent zero spare wb; or sent 2 to be sure of an earlier CC trigger.
You're right that sometimes it's hard to pull off that phase even with a perfect plan. But in fact, you can often drop the first poison VERY early if you have 2 of them. The first poison will slow the troops enough to make the second one easy. I found taking the attitude that poisoning after the troops emerge is always a failure helped me be more effective with them.
If its a centralized cc and you funnel your wizards properly so theyre in position right behind the giants before the cc troops comes out, it doesnt matter what they have in there, theyre going down like rocks under the rage spell. But if you get a noob that allows the giants to pull the cc troops before the wiz are done cleaning their initial structures, I want a baby drag and 2 valks all day for those giants if im on defense. The poison needs to be down already and the healers and wiz need to be raged immediately.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnyxDS
You screwed up your "balanced bases" checklist by dumping in the defenseless base on the bottom. Sometimes you can get away with one or 2 .5's, especially early ones, but even one actual high-offense defenseless base will dump you into the pool with full-on engineered clans. Take out that defenseless and your war matchups should even out, or, if you leave it in, at least you understand why you're getting big mismatches every so often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yachi
You are matching other high th9's b/c your roster is so balanced, but I'd wager that many of your opponents have better heroes. Get your th9's to lvl up their heroes to 30/30 and you'll start seeing better war results I'd wager, or at least get them to start copying tough th9 bases that you guys see in war and then practicing on those bases until they can reliably 3* them.Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzdla
My clan often struggles to clear all opponent th9's, especially when most of our top th9's are down for months upgrading heroes, but we usually get at least most opponent 9's with ours, and I don't recall the last time we left a th9 uncleared after th10 dips. It just takes lots of FC, lots of practice, and make sure that your 9's are improving constantly instead of just using the same old attack that always gets them a 2* in war.
Those numbers were pre-December update. They have not released new numbers since the break, but they will have jumped by about 50%-70% success rate. CWL clans are now clearing TH9 v TH9 with an average of 15 or more attacks remaining to scout TH10s. That difference says it all. The bases have not changed. The attackers have not changed. The attacks have changed. They are now predominately LALOON variants and they are crushing the best bases in the game. There may be some lag, but I would say that the lag is more on the side of the attackers who have not been doing as many air attacks lately. Once they get more practiced, it will get worse. The base builders immediately converted to designing bases to counter air. But they have not been successful on that end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrags
Lol there is NO SUCH THING AS ANTI AIR..We are crushing th9's with air attacks everynightQuote:
Originally Posted by Prince1999
daddylindo is an elite attacker for sure. However, you can 3* th9's just fine with valks as well. My clan requires 5 valks in every single attack regardless of th, and we just won 9 in a row, and lost 10th in a nail biter. Loons are currently easier to get 3* on most bases with very skilled attackers, but to the average Joe I'd say that building proficiency with govaho, or goho, or hghb is probably easier. And, not every single base even at th9 is an easy 3* for any single attack, learning to use different strategies is important.Quote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
One of our 9's 3 starred their two top 9's last night without his queen. Loons are nearing impossible to stop at th9. Unfortunately, unless they nerf or add defense, th9 may be approaching its end stage right behind th8Quote:
Originally Posted by MossackFonseca
You let people into wars without queens? You must be even more skilled than I first imagined! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
I will say that getting crushed by lavaloons is definitely not our experience, even post-update. Small sample size since the update wasn't that long ago, but plenty of folks still get it wrong. It is a high-skill-required attack for sure.
Also we have a lot of 8.5 and 9.5 with that little extra air defense oomph. We are pretty strict about always upgrading air d, sweepers, and tesla in some order, then archer towers, before any other upgrade and definitely before any new tower gets dropped.
We have a 'gem willing' clause when you green up lol... but we saw that they were not good attackers early on, so i saved my bro a 5 day gem. You're right, the majority hasnt caught onto loons yet. But they will. I wouldnt put anymore hounds or loons or golems in your cc's. I would set skellies to air. And make the cc very very very difficult to pull, but even then, the gobolavaloon is unstoppable if the funnel is done correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by posthoc
Thanks for your feedback. I think most players contributing in this thread recognise that Base design at TH9 continually evolves, and attacking meta, whether that be Holo, Goho, Penta,or HGHB has driven new Base design over the last couple of years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince1999
This is going to be controversial, but imo, SC must maintain TH9 as a balanced war sweetspot, within the game, just because of the volume of players in this 'section' of the game.
TH9 takes more time to max than TH2-8 . To this end TH9 needs to be enjoyable and challenging. And no, the rushers stating 'just upgrade to TH10' are naive for the sake of the game as a whole.
Hopefully, base design, or SC will adapt and maintain TH9 as the gateway to the longevity of war for all in Clash .
Just my thoughts😁
Laloon in it's many forms is the dominant attack right now. Hounds, loons or golem in the defending cc is an easy 3 star on the second hit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrags
However, ground attacks are still viable and sometimes the better option for the base layout.
Loons are pretty strong for th9 right now but I hope that just because of that sc doesn't change back their speed. .. maybe movin L8 defenses to th9 will make it viable. A revert will definitely cause lots of uproar
This! Exactly this!Quote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
Reverse the change and throw th10/11 under the bus is ok though ? Maybe a progressive speed buff starting from th10 will work...Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince1999
Also there is no such thing as an anti hog base an anti valk base an anti bowler base or an anti queen ealk base at th9 either .
There are bases they are very hard to hog... plenty spring in all the right places... there are bases that are harder to valk as they get pounded working on high health while getting hammered...
there is no such thing as the perfect base lol
There are ways to stop loons too ofc it won't always work but there are certain features which help alotQuote:
Originally Posted by WH7DX
Thanks Skrags. I just do not understand the 'TH11 is all that matters' mentality that I often see here. TH11s are retiring daily. The only way the game can ever stay healthy is if new players enjoy the road to TH11. If not, they will never get there. I hope that SC has the talent and vision to correct this. At this point, my lower TH players are frustrated. I am frustrated, and the last thing on anybody's mind is that getting to TH11 will be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrags
The CWL gives me hope that the players, and not SC, can be a big part of correcting things. However, if TH9 is not competitive (it currently is not) then it is really hard to do mixed clan wars. If the CWL changes to TH10-11 only, then the bulk of players (TH9) will lose interest.
Yeah.... a disconnect lololQuote:
Originally Posted by SupremeCleave
So... ignore th10/11 and focus on an outdated townhall . Great idea for longevity u got there also the bulk of th9s are bad players with high defenses weak troops . I doubt they care about the cwl
Do you spam laloon to triple Amy base or do u use multi stage attacks. U mention gobo lavaloon that's a pretty strong attack and requires thought and it was very good before update tooQuote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
I love gobolavaloon so i use the two phase attack. But if you know they have a hound from a scout or if their cc is easily pulled, straight up laloon with 2 rages and 5 hastes seems too much with 4 hounds and 24 loons.Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremeCleave
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
So it require thought and planning and somewhat degree of base design?
Also you are more than welcome to come show me ur clans op loon skills in a war... unless ur clan needs more time to get better of course ;)
Oh just go back to algebra class you lolQuote:
Originally Posted by SupremeCleave
I never said throw any level under the bus. That is you and SoD that always want to ignore the needs of part of the population. My interest is in keeping the whole game healthy and competitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremeCleave
I agree, specific things could be done at specific levels that would manage the offense to defense ratio. The wrong answer is to change a global game mechanic that increases offense at every level when that clearly was not needed. You have already pointed out that it was never overly difficult to three star at TH8 and below. Why make that worse? If you want to open up air at TH10+, then manipulate the damage that air defenses do at that level. You can change the defensive component of a single TH level much easier than trying to get the same effect with troop buffs that affect all levels.
Schools over :) and are you dodging the challenge ;)?Quote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
Maybe it's a business decision. Making a troop more powerful spurs profit and motivates sandbagging perma-th9s to move up. And also just making air defenses do less is not enough LOONS NEEDED that speed buff at th10 and 11Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince1999
I agree I have always advocated for the greater good of the game. I have a couple th8's in my clan that love the game for its purity and I feel bad for them because of the way its going. I think deep down SC knows the game is going on 4+ years now and may be trying to grab as much $$$ as possible by getting people up to th11 as fast as they can. The holiday packs, th starter packs, lower upgrade costs and times, its a sad reality. Ive mentioned capping troop limits for cc donations to certain th because the troops are getting too strong. Make the balance great for all town halls, this way every single member of the clan has a purpose and can feel like they're contributing. Thats part of the reason i dont like defenseless bases and engineering, leaving nothing but junk for th8's and down to clean. Th8's just getting their level 4 hogs dying to use em, but what for on a defenseless base?Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince1999
You can come by and put up your base and check some of our attacks or i can come by with my third acct and run through your th9'sQuote:
Originally Posted by SupremeCleave
Eager to bully my engineered th10 with th8 defenses eh? Maybe I can bring my 11Quote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
Ill come by gimme your best th9'sQuote:
Originally Posted by SupremeCleave
kk. ill tell them to join your clan when I can. It wont be immediately as I need to contact them on kik.Quote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
btw is 9.5 ok too?
also you say loons are OP... that implies more than just th9. th10/11 as well.
Do you think loons are OP at th10/11 too?
Loons are definitely OP for th9. Now a th11 last 2 wars ago had a hound and loon in his cc, so our 1 ran straight laloon on him, got 1 star 95%. So th11 is still competetive, but they need to keep a close eye on loons.Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremeCleave
really huh. 95% 1 star on a th11? now was that th11 with good defenses and a eagle? his base design?Quote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
wow! i would love to see that replay? care to snap a shot of the base?
also, what do you define as OP? to me , OP is when anyone can just spam troops with little thought and get a triple. Do you think thats the case with loons? Little thinking/planning and spamming?
Of course he had an eagle. I dont have it was 4 days ago, replay gone. He had a hound in the cc so thats important. Yeah i mean right now the th9 that I mentioned that 3 starred their top 9's without a queen is basically spamming loons and hounds lol. Pull the troops, poison with archers, and just go. If they have a hound in the cc, just start the attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremeCleave
that is impressive assuming he didnt have a ♥♥♥♥ layout with ♥♥♥♥ defenses and L6 air defenses or something lolQuote:
Originally Posted by daddylindo
We always face eagles at the top, we are a maxer clan. We shall keep our eye on what they do, but for now, we are using loons. Im training my lesser experienced 9's now to start using them.Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremeCleave