80% win rate clan... first time going over two losses in a row.. we are at 5 losses..

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Originally Posted by cnaf

CC loons is effective if someone is hitting the base head on, and bum rushing your core CC.

If your CC is pulled in any shape or fashion... and loons come out... from how we do it/see it in wars- doesn't matter if its an AQ/healer deployed, all the way to a standard CC takedown in the corner. Two Lake Ontario poisons placed in a stagger of their exit path from the CC- and its gg.

Want to tell me somebody is attacking with EQ's and no poisons... well, that's another story.

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Even if the attacker rushes in (which is probably the case for hghb variants) I'm not convinced the loons get to shoot if the poison is used properly. I always tell people the first poison should be down BEFORE the first troop emerges from the CC. If it wasn't, then the raid wasn't planned properly.

The loon buff certainly helped CC loons greatly, but I'm still not sure it made them effective.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

. I always tell people the first poison should be down BEFORE the first troop emerges from the CC. If it wasn't, then the raid wasn't planned properly.

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An interesting discussion. Speaking from my own clan's experience, and assuming taking on the CC on the fly, I often note (and I've done this too many times), that the problem is often in the execution of a 'solid' plan rather than the plan itself.

Or, in actual fact, am I just admitting to myself that the plan just wasn't good enough to start with?

Certainly "being late" with the Poison spell(s) can be fairly common, both in our attacks, and those of our opponents.
I suppose this depends upon the nature of the attack, but there's often a lot going on during those few seconds!

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Originally Posted by Skrags

An interesting discussion. Speaking from my own clan's experience, and assuming taking on the CC on the fly, I often note (and I've done this too many times), that the problem is often in the execution of a 'solid' plan rather than the plan itself.

Or, in actual fact, am I just admitting to myself that the plan just wasn't good enough to start with?

Certainly "being late" with the Poison spell(s) can be fairly common, both in our attacks, and those of our opponents.
I suppose this depends upon the nature of the attack, but there's often a lot going on during those few seconds!

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It's two fold there. We all know it, but some tend to forget. Poison not only kills troops, but slows them down. So the pre-drop ensures maximum amount of time for them to move like they are stuck in mud.

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Originally Posted by Skrags

An interesting discussion. Speaking from my own clan's experience, and assuming taking on the CC on the fly, I often note (and I've done this too many times), that the problem is often in the execution of a 'solid' plan rather than the plan itself.

Or, in actual fact, am I just admitting to myself that the plan just wasn't good enough to start with?

Certainly "being late" with the Poison spell(s) can be fairly common, both in our attacks, and those of our opponents.
I suppose this depends upon the nature of the attack, but there's often a lot going on during those few seconds!

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Well, I'm exaggerating a bit in saying it's bad planning. But it can often be avoided by better planning - do you know which buildings are in the CC radius when attacking? Do you know which troop is expected to hit the radius first?
One example - last war I knew after my golem went through the wall it would be out of radius at first gun, and trigger as it went sideways to second (or if it headed further in, if bowlers got second gun first). So that gun dying is the CC trigger. But... I sent a spare wb in - which went through and did a complete trigger of the CC; hence a panicky, late poison drop by me. If I'd thought that through beforehand I could have either sent zero spare wb; or sent 2 to be sure of an earlier CC trigger.

You're right that sometimes it's hard to pull off that phase even with a perfect plan. But in fact, you can often drop the first poison VERY early if you have 2 of them. The first poison will slow the troops enough to make the second one easy. I found taking the attitude that poisoning after the troops emerge is always a failure helped me be more effective with them.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

Well, I'm exaggerating a bit in saying it's bad planning. But it can often be avoided by better planning - do you know which buildings are in the CC radius when attacking? Do you know which troop is expected to hit the radius first?
One example - last war I knew after my golem went through the wall it would be out of radius at first gun, and trigger as it went sideways to second (or if it headed further in, if bowlers got second gun first). So that gun dying is the CC trigger. But... I sent a spare wb in - which went through and did a complete trigger of the CC; hence a panicky, late poison drop by me. If I'd thought that through beforehand I could have either sent zero spare wb; or sent 2 to be sure of an earlier CC trigger.

You're right that sometimes it's hard to pull off that phase even with a perfect plan. But in fact, you can often drop the first poison VERY early if you have 2 of them. The first poison will slow the troops enough to make the second one easy. I found taking the attitude that poisoning after the troops emerge is always a failure helped me be more effective with them.

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If its a centralized cc and you funnel your wizards properly so theyre in position right behind the giants before the cc troops comes out, it doesnt matter what they have in there, theyre going down like rocks under the rage spell. But if you get a noob that allows the giants to pull the cc troops before the wiz are done cleaning their initial structures, I want a baby drag and 2 valks all day for those giants if im on defense. The poison needs to be down already and the healers and wiz need to be raged immediately.

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Originally Posted by Yachi

Yes, what happened to the matchmaking logarithm? We are completely outmatched at the top.

15 vs 15

My team roster (current war win streak 8)

1. TH10 max defense except for wiz towers, 90% lava walls, 40 / 40
2. TH10 max defense, 60% lava walls, 30 / 38
3. TH10 TH9 defense, lvl 1 infernoes, 80% lava walls, 40 / 40
4. TH10 fresh, no infernoes, 80% lava walls, 30 / 33
5. TH10 fresh, no infernoes, 80% lava walls, 20% magma walls, 31 / 34
6. TH10 fresh, no infernoes, 80% lava walls, 26 / 30
7. TH9 max defense, 90% lava walls, 30 / 30
8. TH9 max defense, 70% lava walls, 25 / 25
9. TH9 max defense, 30% lava walls, 25 / 25
10. TH9 mid defense, xbows lvl 2, 30% lava walls, 27 / 26
11. TH9 mid defense, xbows lvl 2, 10% lava walls, 24 / 26
12. TH9 max defense, 20% lava walls, 14 / 14
13. TH9 mid defense, xbows lvl 1, 10% lava walls, 21 / 23
14. TH8 max defense, 80% black skull walls, 10
15. TH9 defenseless, 30 / 30

Opponent's roster (current war win streak 7)

1. TH11 max defense, 60% magma walls, 45 / 45 / 20
2. TH11 mid defense, no EA, 50% lava walls, 25 / 28 / 10
3. TH10 mid defense, 70% lava walls, 24 / 25
4. TH10 fresh, no infernoes, 10% lava walls, 19 / 23
5. TH9 max defense, 80% lava walls, 17 / 21
6. TH9 max defense, 30% lava walls, 20 / 21
7. TH9 max defense, 60% lava walls, 18 / 22
8. TH10 max TH9 defenses, 10% lego walls, 11 / 12
9. TH11 max TH8 defenses, 1x lvl 4 xbow, 1x lvl 3 xbow, 90% lego walls, 10 / 13 / 5
10. TH10 max TH8 defenses, 1x lvl 3 xbow, 1x lvl 2 xbow, 50% black skull walls, 9 / 6
11. TH10 max TH9 defenses, both xbows lvl 3, 10% lego walls, 10 / 7
12. TH10 max TH9 defenses, no xbows, 50% black skull walls, 10 / 13
13. TH9 max TH8 defeneses, both lvl 2 xbows, 30% black skull walls, 8 / 10
14. TH9 max TH7 defeneses, no xbows, 50% black skull walls, 6 / 6
15. TH3 defenseless

At first glance, it seems like we were up against a clan with many rushed bases. But what really matters is the top. Out of 6 TH10s, 4 were already 3 starred. They have the rest of the engineered bases to slowly pick apart our TH9s and below. It looks like a daunting task right now. 21 stars (10/30 attacks) vs 41 stars (25/30 attacks).

IMO, matchmaking shouldn't be based on the whole roster, but the top half of it where it matters most. If the top half is equally matched, it doesn't matter how much lopsided bases or roster engineering you do at the bottom, you have an equal chance to beat your opponents.

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You screwed up your "balanced bases" checklist by dumping in the defenseless base on the bottom. Sometimes you can get away with one or 2 .5's, especially early ones, but even one actual high-offense defenseless base will dump you into the pool with full-on engineered clans. Take out that defenseless and your war matchups should even out, or, if you leave it in, at least you understand why you're getting big mismatches every so often.

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Originally Posted by spazzdla

Our 10Mans are as follows:

1: TH10, almost all lightening walls, perhaps 50 legos, 30 lavas. 28BK, 33 AQ
2: TH10, all legos, 80 lightening. 25 BK, 37AQ
3: TH9 maxed, lvl 20 heros. ALmost all eletric
4: TH9 maxed, lvl 20 heros Almost all electric
5. TH10, just got there, 5 spells, maxed TH9 . Almost all half lego/ half electric
6. TH9 maxed, lvl 18 herso, half lego/electric
7. TH9 maxed, lvl 18 herso, all legos say around 80 electric
8. TH9 maxed, lvl 18 herso, all legos say around 80 electric
9. TH9 full on .5, no Xbows, no upgraded defenses, 20/20 heros, legos and around 80 electric
10. Depends, maxed TH8 or a new ish TH9.



Our TH9's have serious issues acing other TH9's with half legos/electric.. if you have purple walls well it's over but we haven't faced anyone with purple walls in.. over half a year. It is utterly amazing to watch the other teams TH9's clean sweep ours but it does get pretty blah.. Some times I swear a certain mod is still being used.

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You are matching other high th9's b/c your roster is so balanced, but I'd wager that many of your opponents have better heroes. Get your th9's to lvl up their heroes to 30/30 and you'll start seeing better war results I'd wager, or at least get them to start copying tough th9 bases that you guys see in war and then practicing on those bases until they can reliably 3* them.

My clan often struggles to clear all opponent th9's, especially when most of our top th9's are down for months upgrading heroes, but we usually get at least most opponent 9's with ours, and I don't recall the last time we left a th9 uncleared after th10 dips. It just takes lots of FC, lots of practice, and make sure that your 9's are improving constantly instead of just using the same old attack that always gets them a 2* in war.

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Originally Posted by Skrags

Lol buddy, very good:thumbsup:

Let us not forget the publically available stats on historic CWL TH9 3 star attacks, which were, if memory serves me right, running at about 45% before the December update.
That's "some" of the best TH9 attackers around, in some of the best War clans, often with 30/30 Heroes.....45%...

Also, defensive base building meta, always lags behind offence strategy.
The HGHB TH9 attack strategy became very popular in 2016, and still is. BUT, even before the nerf to Double Giant Bombs, there was a TH9 defensive move away from DGB's to 4 single bomb locations, to specifically thwart HGHB.

With the rebalancing of Loons post update, it will be interesting to see how defensive base building evolves at TH9, especially with Air defence position.

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Those numbers were pre-December update. They have not released new numbers since the break, but they will have jumped by about 50%-70% success rate. CWL clans are now clearing TH9 v TH9 with an average of 15 or more attacks remaining to scout TH10s. That difference says it all. The bases have not changed. The attackers have not changed. The attacks have changed. They are now predominately LALOON variants and they are crushing the best bases in the game. There may be some lag, but I would say that the lag is more on the side of the attackers who have not been doing as many air attacks lately. Once they get more practiced, it will get worse. The base builders immediately converted to designing bases to counter air. But they have not been successful on that end.

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Originally Posted by Prince1999

Those numbers were pre-December update. They have not released new numbers since the break, but they will have jumped by about 50%-70% success rate. CWL clans are now clearing TH9 v TH9 with an average of 15 or more attacks remaining to scout TH10s. That difference says it all. The bases have not changed. The attackers have not changed. The attacks have changed. They are now predominately LALOON variants and they are crushing the best bases in the game. There may be some lag, but I would say that the lag is more on the side of the attackers who have not been doing as many air attacks lately. Once they get more practiced, it will get worse. The base builders immediately converted to designing bases to counter air. But they have not been successful on that end.

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Lol there is NO SUCH THING AS ANTI AIR..We are crushing th9's with air attacks everynight

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Originally Posted by daddylindo

Youtube: daddylindo5. I show beautiful th9 attacks there and explain them. Stop using valks ;)

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daddylindo is an elite attacker for sure. However, you can 3* th9's just fine with valks as well. My clan requires 5 valks in every single attack regardless of th, and we just won 9 in a row, and lost 10th in a nail biter. Loons are currently easier to get 3* on most bases with very skilled attackers, but to the average Joe I'd say that building proficiency with govaho, or goho, or hghb is probably easier. And, not every single base even at th9 is an easy 3* for any single attack, learning to use different strategies is important.

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Originally Posted by MossackFonseca

daddylindo is an elite attacker for sure. However, you can 3* th9's just fine with valks as well. My clan requires 5 valks in every single attack regardless of th, and we just won 9 in a row, and lost 10th in a nail biter. Loons are currently easier to get 3* on most bases with very skilled attackers, but to the average Joe I'd say that building proficiency with govaho, or goho, or hghb is probably easier. And, not every single base even at th9 is an easy 3* for any single attack, learning to use different strategies is important.

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One of our 9's 3 starred their two top 9's last night without his queen. Loons are nearing impossible to stop at th9. Unfortunately, unless they nerf or add defense, th9 may be approaching its end stage right behind th8