Supercell PLEASE find a solution to roster engineering

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Originally Posted by DavePorky

True though hardly relevant. Both are underhanded. Legal highs are legal, so was slavery once. Legal doesn't mean ethical.

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First time I've seen something in this game compared to slavery. This is interesting.

That is my point. If one is saying that anything you do to gain a better match-up in war is cheating then a lot more of us are "cheaters" than just people who do roster engineering. What some seem to be implying is that if I put two TH5s at the bottom of my roster so that my clan can go to war either 1. I am a cheater or 2. I should not take my clan to war.

I understand that people than make a TH11 with one defense then have max heroes and max troops creates lopsided matchups. My clan doesn't do that and I can understand the frustration. We actually beat the last two clans we faced that did that because they were bad attackers. My problem is all of the righteousness on this thread and I just want to point out that we all seek unfair adavantages in one war or another.

I think we were trying to say the same thing smokenbooze1

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Originally Posted by Johnnyfsullivan

First time I've seen something in this game compared to slavery. This is interesting.

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Not the best example I could have made, I apologise if I ruffled any feathers. My point was simply that because something is legal or a loophole can be found it doesn't mean it is ethical.

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Originally Posted by xXXCHRISXXx

Recruit, some are good some are bad. Look, you can try to justify your actions but it falls on deaf ears here. I've seen your clan, if you can not have at least 10 of your decent members war, that's your problem. This is a shady tactic, plain and simple.

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I agree with you. Most of these trolls know exactly what you are saying and know it is wrong, but since they do it themselves, they will try to defend it, or at least pretend its not an issue or does not exist. The "filler" argument is just a convenient excuse to throw around. Most clans that put low th bases in war do it to skew the overall war weight. Now granted, there will be times when you are trying to do a war and you need 1 more player in, so you toss in a filler, but many of these clans conveniently have maxed out Townhall 10s or 11s up top, and 3-10 "fillers" on the bottom. Its done to skew war weight and draw an easier opponent and it works period. Any argument otherwise is just a troll, or a cheater trying to justify it.

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Originally Posted by DavePorky

Not the best example I could have made, I apologise if I ruffled any feathers. My point was simply that because something is legal or a loophole can be found it doesn't mean it is ethical.

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Thanks for the response. Analogies can be tricky at times, especially when using them in Clash. I understand your point and I agree with the sentiment, but I stop short of saying it's on the same level as using a third party application, or a clear violation of the Terms of Service. I think it's important to separate the two, because words and semantics matter. IMO, roster engineering or having lopsided bases for the purposes of getting a better matchup is sandbagging.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbagging

For the record, I am against engineering (lopsided bases) in war, and I'm against roster engineering. I also do both of these things, because we are a casual adult clan who take wars seriously, and we were tired of going up against engineers. So we started doing it ourselves.

I believe engineering is bad for the game and will negatively impact the war community in the long term. I don't think it's the way the game was intended to be played. I am in favor of a war MM system which will reduce the effectiveness of roster engineering and lopsided bases.

I still think the below suggestions are best for updating the MM system (which is actually pretty good right now) and to help with defining what is engineering, and why it is potentially bad for the game.

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Nerf’s suggestions for engineered bases / clans
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...17#post7861017

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...01#post7979801

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...82#post8067582

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...58#post8371458

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...24#post8371624

Billius discussion on the impact of Engineered clans and bases to the game
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...-and-Farm-Wars

Sumosloth on Engineering
https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...ut-Engineering

Noctaire's blog on Engineering
http://nocsclashjournal.blogspot.com...-how-best.html

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Originally Posted by ImmortalPekka

I agree with you. Most of these trolls know exactly what you are saying and know it is wrong, but since they do it themselves, they will try to defend it, or at least pretend its not an issue or does not exist. The "filler" argument is just a convenient excuse to throw around. Most clans that put low th bases in war do it to skew the overall war weight. Now granted, there will be times when you are trying to do a war and you need 1 more player in, so you toss in a filler, but many of these clans conveniently have maxed out Townhall 10s or 11s up top, and 3-10 "fillers" on the bottom. Its done to skew war weight and draw an easier opponent and it works period. Any argument otherwise is just a troll, or a cheater trying to justify it.

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ImmortalPekka do you or anyone in your clan max your heroes before you build or upgrade defenses at a new town hall level? Do you do this to skew the war weight?

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Originally Posted by vRoyales

Yes, those fat bases get 3* with ease (even though our TH8 get zero loot for them, soooo fun for them!) but they get a massive advantage of having more attacks on your top bases offensively. That is where it matters.

In our last 5 wars, 4 of them have had engineered TH11 at the bottom of their roster. Some had 42/42/20 with fully maxed troops and other less like 25/25/10 with just a few key maxed troops for war. This advantage is massive in mixed wars, especially when the top of the roster is a dead heat to begin with. Having any extra number of TH11 hits with solid troops is an incredible advantage in war.

THAT is the problem with those ''fat bases''.

... and no, we are not a lopsided clan. Our lowest accounts are near maxed to maxed TH8, and we run all the way up to my max TH11. 4-6 TH11 total depending on opt ins. The only base we have that would be considered engineered is a TH10.5 as I've yet to convince him it is not working anymore lol

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you misunderstand me. when i say fat bases, i mean anything that is above 40k defense weight

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Originally Posted by osuchemnerd

That is my point. If one is saying that anything you do to gain a better match-up in war is cheating then a lot more of us are "cheaters" than just people who do roster engineering. What some seem to be implying is that if I put two TH5s at the bottom of my roster so that my clan can go to war either 1. I am a cheater or 2. I should not take my clan to war.

I understand that people than make a TH11 with one defense then have max heroes and max troops creates lopsided matchups. My clan doesn't do that and I can understand the frustration. We actually beat the last two clans we faced that did that because they were bad attackers. My problem is all of the righteousness on this thread and I just want to point out that we all seek unfair adavantages in one war or another.

I think we were trying to say the same thing smokenbooze1

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I on the most part understand and agree with what you are saying. My beef isn't that a clan decides to pop a couple of low town halls in to not disappoint the 8 members that are itching to war, my beef is simply that is shouldn't create a significant advantage for that clan.

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Originally Posted by osuchemnerd

ImmortalPekka do you or anyone in your clan max your heroes before you build or upgrade defenses at a new town hall level? Do you do this to skew the war weight?

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You've completely derailed this thread within the last hour. Stick to the topic, lower town halls (1-4) do not belong in a war with higher town halls (9-11). There is no excuse as immortalpekka had stated. Quit trying to compare apples to oranges and stay on topic, roster engineering, specifically at the bottom of war lineups containing higher town hall levels.

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Originally Posted by ImmortalPekka

I agree with you. Most of these trolls know exactly what you are saying and know it is wrong, but since they do it themselves, they will try to defend it, or at least pretend its not an issue or does not exist. The "filler" argument is just a convenient excuse to throw around. Most clans that put low th bases in war do it to skew the overall war weight. Now granted, there will be times when you are trying to do a war and you need 1 more player in, so you toss in a filler, but many of these clans conveniently have maxed out Townhall 10s or 11s up top, and 3-10 "fillers" on the bottom. Its done to skew war weight and draw an easier opponent and it works period. Any argument otherwise is just a troll, or a cheater trying to justify it.

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Spot on. ^^^^^