Supercell PLEASE find a solution to roster engineering

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Originally Posted by MossackFonseca

2 minimaxes and a "handful" of .5's will put you squarely into the "imbalanced" category these days. Also, 50v50 wars are notoriously difficult to get even close to competitive. In forum goat herd we're only running about 50% of wars within 10 stars, with 25% more like 20* +/- for us. It's just really, really tough to get a balanced roster of 50 people, even if that's your goal.

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Crazy matchup. How are the defenses for the opposing townhall 11s?

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Originally Posted by Hyper54

Are you serious? This complaint is just unnecessary! You are censoring a percentage of players from being able to war plus so what if people do this? Are you just upset that you lost one war to a clan who did this so what everyone loses wars. My clan does roster engineering and it allows us to do theoretical 5v5 or so wars. It's fun maybe you should try it...

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Hmmm... If I could, um, maybe know your clan name, maybe I could get you a temporary war ban... Maybe not, but worth a shot. :smirk:

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Originally Posted by MJPB

War is a "side event" ... really?

The game is called Clash of Clans.

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It is called clash of clans. It ISN'T called Clan war game. It was called clash of clans for YEARS before war was even an option. Of course clan wars is a side game or it would be mandatory. It's an option that a clan has, an option that should only be taken up when a clan has enough willing members to fill a war without playing dirty.

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Originally Posted by MossackFonseca

I war nonstop in 2 separate clans. I've conducted hundreds of war searches, and I spend a lot of time over in the Clan Wars subforum, as well. And I can tell you from my own personal experience, plus anecdotally from all other posts I've seen on the subject, that dumping low th's into your roster leads to a lopsided war roster.

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What exactly does it mean, "lopsided war roster?"

Are those a bad thing?

Does a, "lopsided war roster" result in unfair/unreasonable wars?

If so, how?

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Originally Posted by MossackFonseca

If anything, dumping low th's has more of an effect now than defenseless bases, as the low th's don't have any high offense to consider. And most clans in most wars are not hoping or expecting the bottom 1/3 or so of their lineup to do anything other than get roftstomped, so it's disingenuous to claim that taking out a bunch of th8's in an other th8-10 war and replacing them with th3's doesn't have a significant (usually positive) effect on the strength of your war opponent.

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I believe I stated the exact opposite of what you just accused me of.

I think you need to re-read what I actually said, not what you think I said

I find it very interesting you deleted the part of my comment which stated exactly said point.

As a matter of fact, can you explain that?

Further, and much more important, please explain how replacing those "th8's in an other th8-10 war and replacing them with th3's" doesn't significantly reduce your own clan's ability to attack and defend.

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Originally Posted by MossackFonseca

I started a thread the other day about ways to ensure fair and balanced wars, and dumping low th's into your war roster was pretty high on my list of things to avoid doing if you want competitive wars every time. Here's a link if you want to check it out: https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...mpetitive-wars

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Competitive being the operative word there.

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Originally Posted by DavePorky

It is called clash of clans. It ISN'T called Clan war game. It was called clash of clans for YEARS before war was even an option. Of course clan wars is a side game or it would be mandatory. It's an option that a clan has, an option that should only be taken up when a clan has enough willing members to fill a war without playing dirty.

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I don't even care if a clan uses a couple th3 filler accounts at the bottom if they need to in order to make a multiple of 5. It just shouldn't bring about a potential advantage in clan war matchmaking. If your clan can't fill 10 people to war, that's fine, but it should be to your detriment, not your advantage.

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Originally Posted by xXXCHRISXXx

As the title suggest, please do something about roster engineering. There should be no reason why th3 are allowed to be included in a war lineup consisting of th10 and 11. This drops their entire clan weight making for very uneven matches at the top. IMO, anything below th7 shouldn't be allowed to war. Yeah I'll probably receive some flak for that but it's my opinion. There should be no reason an account like this is even allowed to participate in wars.

http://i.imgur.com/mLhweyq.jpg

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Welcome to 2017! The Year of Engineers

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Originally Posted by nerfedname

I don't even care if a clan uses a couple th3 filler accounts at the bottom if they need to in order to make a multiple of 5. It just shouldn't bring about a potential advantage in clan war matchmaking. If your clan can't fill 10 people to war, that's fine, but it should be to your detriment, not your advantage.

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I feel the same. An advantage for being ill equipped seems plain bonkers.

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Originally Posted by nerfedname

I don't even care if a clan uses a couple th3 filler accounts at the bottom if they need to in order to make a multiple of 5. It just shouldn't bring about a potential advantage in clan war matchmaking. If your clan can't fill 10 people to war, that's fine, but it should be to your detriment, not your advantage.

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Agreed completely.

In my opinion, matchmaking needs to be a 2 step process where offense and defense are used seperately.
Step one: find two similar clans based on defense levels alone for a potential match

Step 2: check offense levels of both clans to determine if its a fair match (IE no th11 offense vs a clan whose strongest base is a th10, the amount of bases with high offense levels are within a small range of each other on either side) and either start war if it is fair or continue searching if not.

Roster engineering wouldnt get much of an advantage and highly engineered clans would have trouble finding a match at all unless it was another highly engineered clan.

Still fail to see how including a TH3 is a significant advantage.

What bases are a TH3 going to 3*?

How hard is it to 3* a max TH3?

Including a TH3 definitely has drawbacks &, as stated before, seems much more akin to a gambit than anything else

I simply don't understand this mindset...

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Originally Posted by 2222

So, what is the answer to stop roster engineering?

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The question that seems in need of addressing before that is: "Do we have a problem in the first place?"

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Originally Posted by 2222

So, what is the answer to stop roster engineering?

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As always the best solution is for the MM to correctly account for the value of the stuff. And it's always better to do this before adding in other checks and balances or weird rules.

If we are warring as TH8-TH10, then it makes zero difference whether the bottom enemy base is a weakish TH8 (50k) or a 1-cannon job (0.5k). In either case it will be 3*ed first hit. However, at the moment, the latter case skews the other clans average weight downwards.

The easiest solution is to remove the check of the overall average clan weight that was added in March. Comparing the averages is nonsense - extra strength in one place rarely really balances up weakness elsewhere. Failing that exclude some of the bottom of the map from the average check. OR apply minima - if my clans lowest offence is around 50k, then all enemy bases are treated as having defence perhaps 10% lower than that as a minimum - because anything lower becomes irrelevant.

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I also wonder whether it would give an advantage to lopsided bases who would have their high offense count for little in the match since they are at the "bottom."

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But the defenceless probably isn't at the "bottom" when it's doing the matchmaking - that is purely how it is displayed to us to help us pick targets. Ideally the offence and defence are completely separated, so that defenceless TH11 is actually at the top when processing the offence.

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Originally Posted by nerfedname

I don't even care if a clan uses a couple th3 filler accounts at the bottom if they need to in order to make a multiple of 5. It just shouldn't bring about a potential advantage in clan war matchmaking. If your clan can't fill 10 people to war, that's fine, but it should be to your detriment, not your advantage.

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Which is exactly where we were before they started trying to check the averages. In 2015 you'd see the odd TH3/4 whatever filler to make up the numbers on the enemy side matched to a TH8 or whatever on our side. But there would be no compensating strength elsewhere.
I also remember seeing a few times clans that had clearly stacked the bottom because they believed the MM did look at averages - it was a waste of time and the rest of the roster still matched about as evenly as normal.