How to get rid of engineered clans. Just like they got rid of th sniping

SC did a great job of getting rid of the modded clans or people modding. Clans were modding used to get favorable advantage during wars etc.. However, engineered clans r still out there and bathing in unfavorable lopsided wins.. So what is the difference? Engineered or modded clans both get a favorable advantage and both have made war disgusting.

I know there are some ways to try to avoid engineered clans by not spreading out your Th lvls, and our clan has done that and more, but we still face these engineered lopsided clans!. Even if we try to cover the lopsided bases by making a strategic war plan, the war is still in favor of the engineered clans.

So if SC got rid of cheaters by stopping modded clans/people in their tracks. Why don't they find a way to get rid of engineered clans. And yes engineered clans are not much different than a modded clan. One used a 3rd party software, the other is using trickery by cracking the current algorithm SC has for wars. Now let me get this straight. O.5 your base, until your troops are good enough for war does not constitute and engineered base in my books. That is just upgrading your base the correct way for war.

We need some suggestions out there!

• I.e. other clans report the engineering and or base in question and SC places a ban on that base from entering war for a 7 to 14 days so they can upgrade or buy their defenses.

• Or once the individual reaches a new th level the minute they upgrade any major war troop, (, golums, drags, valkaries, pekkas etc..) than that individual war weight goes up dramatically. So for example you have and engineered th9 , who just upgraded a dragon to lvl 4, that would hold the same war weight as putting down an xbow.
• Another way is if the match ups was off by one th level that person is only allowed to get 2 stars for a 100 percent score or some destruction penalty or loot penalty.

I don't know what else we can do folks something has to be done. Enough is enough!

Any suggestions or thoughts.

I am going all out engineering on three of my accounts and maxing only my primary. It's the future of wars. Not the other way round. The game is called a strategy game. Engineering or lop sided bases are a strategy that loves offences without working hard on defs. Why should they be treated unfairly?

As long as they do the same for regular multiplayer I'd be fine with it. Someone who plops down both infernos should only get offered bases with two active infernos. Why should they be able to defend their loot better than they are able to attack? They are basically using trickery by cracking the current algorithm that SC uses for multiplayer.

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Originally Posted by Azrial

As long as they do the same for regular multiplayer I'd be fine with it. Someone who plops down both infernos should only get offered bases with two active infernos. Why should they be able to defend their loot better than they are able to attack? They are basically using trickery by cracking the current algorithm that SC uses for multiplayer.

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Hi5 to that..
OP next time you see any lopsided base while farming just press next.. dont bother attacking it.. as ur morals tell u otherwise.. its trickery and cheating attacking a defenseless base and getting loot..

It's not cheating. It's losing one advantage (keeping your dang loot) to gain another advantage in war. You lose out a lot on engineered bases, you can't really push for gems and you're constantly draining funds.
Engineered bases are not just like mod bases; we didn't get to auto farm, or practice war attacks over and over again. You still have to be a good attacker or even the war loot is a losing money maker. Which just gets raided away.
Just like azrial said, if it was done in matchmaking and war that'd be one thing. But it's not, and there are serious trades for whichever path you choose.

If you really want to get rid of engineered clans the simplest way is to give everyone just one attack per war. To offset each person having fewer attacks you could allow a clan to have 2 wars going on at the same time.

As far as I know, SC is already working on improving clan war matchmaking so that clans with lopsided bases would get tougher wars. This way, people will realize it is not worth upgrading only TH and offense for wars, and will stop doing so.

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Originally Posted by Rbot14

Now let me get this straight. O.5 your base, until your troops are good enough for war does not constitute and engineered base in my books. That is just upgrading your base the correct way for war.

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I would say any form of engineering your base is the correct way for war. You say engineering is manipulating the current algorithm, well what do you think 0.5 is doing?

First of all, there is nothing in the rules that says you can't build your base or upgrade any way you want. If SC wants it different, they can force people to max their base, before they can upgrade their TH. I am against engineering, I think it just hurts game play, even for the engineer, because they can't progress their base properly.

SC has made big strides in removing the advantage for many .5 bases, but they need to stop the defenseless and super low defense/high offense bases. You just need to stop acting like they are cheating, they are simply using what they know about the game to benefit them.

It's up to SC to fix their matchmaking code, to better detect these extreme bases and match them better. If you have a level 20 GW and level 7 loons for instance, I don't care if you have a level 1 cannon, you should be matched with a TH11.

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Originally Posted by Rbot14

SC did a great job of getting rid of the modded clans or people modding.

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........
Lol

Supercell can't stop engineering. There will always be a way to take advantage of the system they put in place. I will *always* find a way to win.

noone has broken any rules why should they be punished? You want people to be forced to change there style of gameplay because it doesnt suit you that is ridicuous, engineers sacrifice defensive strength for offense its pretty simple.

I agree a .5 base is ok, but people just upgrade to th11 with th9 defenses. Then they can attack TH9s with a lot of offensive power. That is manipulation of the matchmaking algorithm.

there has to be a limit... a th11 with 2 powerful attacks (warden, bowler3, etc) cannot weight the same as a maxed th9

Yeah! PERMABAN for engineered bases! And force their pets to be spade or neutered!

Complaining about engineered base.. will it ever end?...
Op last I checked playstore (because I use Android :p)..
It's a strategy game ....
You can play however you want...and for playing in a certain which does match with yours....
Sc have to punish that guy...
Wow great idea..
And as far as engineering goes its not easy to create one...
And all most all those engineered base is a second or third account of that player....
He is enjoying the game the way he want....
And you want sc to force a player how he plays...
And It's defense less bases so 3 staring them is easy ....
So why complaining so much?...

OP, you are wrong to begin with.

Modders were against the rules, so it was only a matter of time till they get hit by the psychotic octopus.

TH sniping was a game rule, that SC decided to change, for the better, and by logic, it only make sens that the TH is supposed to be the most important structure in your village, and need protection (IMO no longer the case when DE becomes an high priority).

About increasing offence war weight drastically, it will only turn your issue around, as newly THs will be challenged against late THs, and will stand no chances against them.

We're supposed to play the game the way we like within the game rules, and that's exactly what engeenered clan do.

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Originally Posted by RagnarFurias

I agree a .5 base is ok, but people just upgrade to th11 with th9 defenses. Then they can attack TH9s with a lot of offensive power. That is manipulation of the matchmaking algorithm.

there has to be a limit... a th11 with 2 powerful attacks (warden, bowler3, etc) cannot weight the same as a maxed th9

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Newsflash -- A TH11 with 2 powerful attacks DOES NOT weigh the same as a maxed TH9.

Engineers imo are peeps that are failures at being able to accomplish a fair war victory by playing even up so they seek out a way to be the big kid on the block. No, it doesn't go against SS rules which makes it "legal". I still want to call a spade a spade and I think engineers are chicken sht to try and fight fair. Try and tell me differently, go ahead. No amount of "it's hard to do" is going dispel the fact that you are scared to fight fair and square.

I like the one attack per war idea. That would put a hurting on them.

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Originally Posted by souvy

Complaining about engineered base.. will it ever end?...
Op last I checked playstore (because I use Android :p)..
It's a strategy game ....
You can play however you want...and for playing in a certain which does match with yours....
Sc have to punish that guy...
Wow great idea..
And as far as engineering goes its not easy to create one...
And all most all those engineered base is a second or third account of that player....
He is enjoying the game the way he want....
And you want sc to force a player how he plays...
And It's defense less bases so 3 staring them is easy ....
So why complaining so much?...

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Out of curiosity, I assume you were very upset when TH sniping went away, correct?

We very rarely see engineered clans, and they way we did that was stop searching with low weight low town hall bases, we usually search with between 2 and 4 th11s, 10 or so 10s, 2 th10.5s and the rest th9s. We currently have 1 8.5. You spin heavy, you match heavy, but they are usually fair matches and not engineered madness. Dont spin with a bunch of low town halls, problem solved

Slippery slope here, OP. For starters, I would wager you there are an awful lot of clans that fall under "engineered". Those maxxer clans, that backload their bottom with low TH levels in an effort to affect their overall weight... that's a form of engineering. Rushed bases, whether by accident, or not- that's a form of engineering. The list goes on.

SC has already put a tweak in their MM algorithm to address lopsided bases. If you are still being affected by lopsided wars- you might also want to take a good, hard look at your clan makeup and see if there is something there that can be tweaked to help.

Besides- do we really want to take every form of engineering out of Clash? Because if that happened... what excuse would there be for losing a war?

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Originally Posted by sinner33

Engineers imo are peeps that are failures at being able to accomplish a fair war victory by playing even up so they seek out a way to be the big kid on the block. No, it doesn't go against SS rules which makes it "legal". I still want to call a spade a spade and I think engineers are chicken sht to try and fight fair. Try and tell me differently, go ahead. No amount of "it's hard to do" is going dispel the fact that you are scared to fight fair and square.

I like the one attack per war idea. That would put a hurting on them.

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Fixed...

Inferno droppers are peeps that are failures at farming so they seek out a way to be the big kid on the block. No, it doesn't go against SS rules which makes it "legal". I still want to call a spade a spade and I think inferno droppers are chicken sht to try and fight fair. Try and tell me differently, go ahead. No amount of "it's hard to do" is going dispel the fact that you are scared to build your base without those elite defense.

I like the "you build it you fight it" idea for regular matchmaking. That would put a hurting on them.

the problem is not related to engineered bases, but with clan war matchmaking algorithm.
A th11 with full attack power and th9 defenses can 3-star two th10 from enemy's clan.
a maxed th9 (that weight the same as that engineered base) cannot 3-star two th10 from enemy's clan.
that is unfair, matchmaking algorithm should, and hopefully will, be improved

I'm not convinced anything needs to change, but yes shifting the war weight is the simplest answer to change behavior.

You have 2 attacks but 1 base. So you could make the offensive component 2/3 of the war weight.

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Originally Posted by RagnarFurias

the problem is not related to engineered bases, but with clan war matchmaking algorithm.
A th11 with full attack power and th9 defenses can 3-star two th10 from enemy's clan.
a maxed th9 (that weight the same as that engineered base) cannot 3-star two th10 from enemy's clan.
that is unfair, matchmaking algorithm should, and hopefully will, be improved

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A base with TH9 defense and TH11 offense weighs much more than a max TH9

Please don't use as counter argument the war map placement

The easy fix for this would be to give the max war weight to the TOWN HALL level. I mean DUH that's the logical algorithm that can't be manipulated and would instantly solve most of the matchmaking issues. AFTER matching town hall levels THEN match defense and offense levels from there and no more th11s matching th8s. BAM engineered base clans get matched to each other or are useless and fairly and rightly so.

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Originally Posted by Azrial

Newsflash -- A TH11 with 2 powerful attacks DOES NOT weigh the same as a maxed TH9.

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Yes it does... and I saw it in one of our clan wars. Just upgrade to th10 and th11 and don't add or upgrade any defenses or walls, only offense (lab, spell, camp, heroes, troops and cc)

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Originally Posted by Bearteaser

The easy fix for this would be to give the max war weight to the TOWN HALL level. I mean DUH

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Giving weight to a building that by himself gives no benefit whatsoever? :facepalm:

Give much (MUCH) more weight to troops and spell slots

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Originally Posted by RagnarFurias

Yes it does... and I saw it in one of our clan wars. Just upgrade to th10 and th11 and don't add or upgrade any defenses or walls, only offense (lab, spell, camp, heroes, troops and cc)

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Still wrong.

Just because you can't see the offensive weight, doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that it isn't taken into account

Seeing the "match" on the war map takes more into account than just the weight of the two bases at that position.

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Originally Posted by VeeBirds

A base with TH9 defense and TH11 offense weighs much more than a max TH9

Please don't use as counter argument the war map placement

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This is absolutely correct. Players seem to be unaware or forgetting that location on a map is strictly a defensive rank. That clans are paired in wars based on an overall weighting, and that maxed to near maxed offense plays a significant role in that overall weighting.

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Originally Posted by RagnarFurias

Yes it does... and I saw it in one of our clan wars. Just upgrade to th10 and th11 and don't add or upgrade any defenses or walls, only offense (lab, spell, camp, heroes, troops and cc)

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How did you "see it" in one of your clan wars? Offensive weight is completely invisible to the opposing clan. It's mostly invisible to the other clan as well. The only clue one has is by "recommended target".

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Originally Posted by RagnarFurias

Yes it does... and I saw it in one of our clan wars. Just upgrade to th10 and th11 and don't add or upgrade any defenses or walls, only offense (lab, spell, camp, heroes, troops and cc)

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You do realize you only see your DEFENSIVE weight... yes?

That's the reason you don't see an adjustment in your overall war weight... when you are upgrading offense. :facepalm:

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Originally Posted by VeeBirds

A base with TH9 defense and TH11 offense weighs much more than a max TH9

Please don't use as counter argument the war map placement

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war map placement is a good indication about how much that base weights in wars. Every level of xbow adds a lot of weight to the base, so the person can leave his xbow as lv1 and upgrade to th11...

i agree to voganainem. Since we have 1 base and 2 attacks, offense should weight more.

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Originally Posted by RagnarFurias

war map placement is a good indication

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It's a good indication for "balanced" bases but it's pretty much useless for lop-sided ones

That won't exactly fix much imo, would cause more harm than good.

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Originally Posted by Voganainen

I'm not convinced anything needs to change, but yes shifting the war weight is the simplest answer to change behavior.

You have 2 attacks but 1 base. So you could make the offensive component 2/3 of the war weight.

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I agree. I have not personally seen engineered bases, but I don't think the concept itself should be banned. If there is indeed a problem, the solution should be to just adjust the weights so that TH11s aren't getting matched against TH7s; not stomp out the practice altogether.

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Originally Posted by Azrial

How did you "see it" in one of your clan wars? Offensive weight is completely invisible to the opposing clan. It's mostly invisible to the other clan as well. The only clue one has is by "recommended target".

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You can see it by the opponents position in clan war map. If his offensive weight was that big, he would go up some positions in clan war map...

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Originally Posted by RagnarFurias

war map placement is a good indication about how much that base weights in wars. Every level of xbow adds a lot of weight to the base, so the person can leave his xbow as lv1 and upgrade to th11...

i agree to voganainem. Since we have 1 base and 2 attacks, offense should weight more.

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war map placement is only a rank based on the measure of defensive weight at the time that the war search was started. Nothing more, nothing less.

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Originally Posted by VeeBirds

Giving weight to a building that by himself gives no benefit whatsoever? :facepalm:

Give much (MUCH) more weight to troops and spell slots

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Seriously? The town hall gives you ALL the offensive (and defensive) advantages... It's not choosing to upgrade defense that's the algorithm "cheat" as it is.

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Originally Posted by Bearteaser

Seriously? The town hall gives you ALL the offensive (and defensive) advantages... It's not choosing to upgrade defense that's the algorithm "cheat" as it is.

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The Town Hall itself gives you nothing but extra HP, if you dont upgrade/build anything else
So putting the most weight on it is quite silly

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Originally Posted by RagnarFurias

You can see it by the opponents position in clan war map. If his offensive weight was that big, he would go up some positions in clan war map...

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No he wouldn't
Position in war map is defensive weight only

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Originally Posted by Azrial

Fixed...

Inferno droppers are peeps that are failures at farming so they seek out a way to be the big kid on the block. No, it doesn't go against SS rules which makes it "legal". I still want to call a spade a spade and I think inferno droppers are chicken sht to try and fight fair. Try and tell me differently, go ahead. No amount of "it's hard to do" is going dispel the fact that you are scared to build your base without those elite defense.

I like the "you build it you fight it" idea for regular matchmaking. That would put a hurting on them.

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THis makes not sense at all. Infernoes are the best defense in the game, why would anyone not build them. Its a strategy game and good strategy dictates you do whats best to win. Why can't you respect that ?

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Originally Posted by Bearteaser

Seriously? The town hall gives you ALL the offensive (and defensive) advantages... It's not choosing to upgrade defense that's the algorithm "cheat" as it is.

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Not true. The "advanced" engineered clans engineer every account, offensively and defensively. Every account is managed according to the users attacking strength. If they're good with air, they only level up air troops and spells, and so on.

The clan has accounts that are tailored for specific base archetypes in order to minimize the overall clan weight as a whole.

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Originally Posted by ElectroWizzard

war map placement is only a rank based on the measure of defensive weight at the time that the war search was started. Nothing more, nothing less.

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since both clan war matchmaking algorithm and map placement algorithms are not open source, we cannot know for sure which one of us (if any) is right.

This discussion clearly turned into engineered base players against "max-everything-before-th" (I just invented this name). There is no point in going on... I'm glad SC is aware of how unbalanced clan wars are going because of lopsided bases, and I trust they will do what they can to make it more fair.

Engineering is not cheating, its just upgrading in the most profitable way for war. It hurts in regular multiplayer.

What I see is maxers want the the best of the mm gameplay and war. This post is just horrible OP and its very sad to see how you come Completly disrespect and insult players for playing and using strategy in a strategy game. Calling someone doing something legal a cheater is quite low because it doesnt agree with what you perceive as correct ...

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Originally Posted by LittleMoon

THis makes not sense at all. Infernoes are the best defense in the game, why would anyone not build them. Its a strategy game and good strategy dictates you do whats best to win. Why can't you respect that ?

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It was just a play on his words to show how the argument could be turned around.

IMHO a strategy game should have different paths to take. If dropping heavy defenses early on was a good strategy for clan wars then there would be only one good way of playing this game -- going defense heavy. The reason is because that would be the best strategy for loot protection, trophy pushing and war. Why would anyone upgrade their base in any other way?

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Originally Posted by LittleMoon

THis makes not sense at all. Infernoes are the best defense in the game, why would anyone not build them. Its a strategy game and good strategy dictates you do whats best to win. Why can't you respect that ?

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Because they are very heavily weighted, which increases the entire weight of your clan, bringing in more difficult targets.

Offense is what wins wars, having a stronger defense to fight against is counter intuitive to "whats best to win".

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Originally Posted by VeeBirds

The Town Hall itself gives you nothing but extra HP, if you dont upgrade/build anything else
So putting the most weight on it is quite silly

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Well if you are an engineer and can't war effectively without working the system it's silly... But it would definitely fix the engineering problem but shouldn't mess up new town halls since it would ALSO match offense/defense but AFTER matching th level. FAIR match, what a concept...

Players that are strategically upgrading their base in a strategy game!!!!!!!! HOW DARE THEM!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by RagnarFurias

since both clan war matchmaking algorithm and map placement algorithms are not open source, we cannot know for sure which one of us (if any) is right.

This discussion clearly turned into engineered base players against "max-everything-before-th" (I just invented this name). There is no point in going on... I'm glad SC is aware of how unbalanced clan wars are going because of lopsided bases, and I trust they will do what they can to make it more fair.

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Actually, there is a way to know. SC told us. There is a thread somewhere in the Clan War section which details this, unless it's been deleted. They also told ClashWithAsh in a video interview that they did.

Still some doubt.

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Originally Posted by Bearteaser

Well if you are an engineer and can't war effectively without working the system it's silly... But it would definitely fix the engineering problem but shouldn't mess up new town halls since it would ALSO match offense/defense but AFTER matching th level. FAIR match, what a concept...

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So if a kid rushes to TH10 but his defenses and offense are still TH7/8-ish level, he will weigh more than a 30/30 max TH9?
Talking about fair :rolleyes:

I am neither for nor against engineered accounts, but no, it's NOT the same as modding... not even close!

Engineering is 100% within the rules. No one can tell you in what order you MUST build or upgrade your base!

A quick way to fix be townhall matches townhall no matter what in war. It makes no sense for example for a th6 to be matched with a th 11 in war.

That th 11 with max heroes, troops, etc., and baby cannon should face th11 in war no matter what. It's that simple.

Also if you went to a new th and are upgrading your cc, troops, spells, etc. before defenses (.5) that is Not engineering.

If you look at the overall 'balance' of the Game, SC have done a pretty good job imho. Guys who want to max every last bomb and brick before moving up to the next th can do so, and can feel they are 'solid players' . (Although SinOfD makes some pretty good arguments why maxing is actually less efficient than rushing). At the same time guys who want to structure their base, and indeed their clan to get competitive war advantage are free to do so. No doubt they feel they are 'smart strategists' in war. But they pay the price of never defending in multiplayer, have a harder time keeping their loot, and of course they waste a lot of gold because they can't use it.

So overall all the game has balance, you can be a war engineer, or a farmer, or a max base pusher, or you can even be all three since you can run more than one account, and try the different approaches for size.

Instead of whining and demanding that SC force everyone to play the same way, why not enjoy the many possibilities the game has to offer? Just my two pennorth.

(And if it makes any difference, I have 6 bases ranging from a quite rushed, th7.5 up to a nearly maxed th11 (just walls and bomb towers to finish) with both maxed and engineered th9s in between. I enjoy playing the lower bases most lol).

Why upgrade defenses if your war troops are already maxed? Imo it's better to rush to the next th in this case.

The whole "loot protection" argument is a joke. It doesn't matter if you have Infernos, EA, everything maxed or not. Your loot is going to get taken regardless of whether you are rushed or maxed.

But you get a longer shield if you give up more % on defense. And you can raid more times during your shield than someone with maxed defenses because it's longer.

So just stop with the loot and the regular MM arguments.

The fact is that a lot of times engineering ruins wars for people. You either have to attack a defenseless base (or one WAY below your skill level) - which is ridiculously boring or get smashed by people who don't have the intestinal fortitude to attack bases that are their equal in defense.

It's not cheating, but it's weak sauce at the highest level.

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Originally Posted by Daisycloud

A quick way to fix be townhall matches townhall no matter what in war. It makes no sense for example for a th6 to be matched with a th 11 in war.

That th 11 with max heroes, troops, etc., and baby cannon should face th11 in war no matter what. It's that simple.

Also if you went to a new th and are upgrading your cc, troops, spells, etc. before defenses (.5) that is Not engineering.

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I can just as easily take advantage of this algorithm. I will just only bring max bases (for their TH level) to war.

I will only bring TH9's with 30/30 heros and all defenses and walls maxed, TH10's with 40/40 and all defenses and walls maxed and all TH11's with 45/45/20 with all defenses and walls maxed.

There will always be a way to *game* the system and I will always find it.

OP why dont you just quit if you cant take the pressure.

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Originally Posted by TheConfuzed1

I am neither for nor against engineered accounts, but no, it's NOT the same as modding... not even close!

Engineering is 100% within the rules. No one can tell you in what order you MUST build or upgrade your base!

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this guy gets it.
SC sets the rules. we just play the game how we feel like.

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Originally Posted by Smalls

The whole "loot protection" argument is a joke. It doesn't matter if you have Infernos, EA, everything maxed or not. Your loot is going to get taken regardless of whether you are rushed or maxed.

But you get a longer shield if you give up more % on defense. And you can raid more times during your shield than someone with maxed defenses because it's longer.

So just stop with the loot and the regular MM arguments.

The fact is that a lot of times engineering ruins wars for people. You either have to attack a defenseless base (or one WAY below your skill level) - which is ridiculously boring or get smashed by people who don't have the intestinal fortitude to attack bases that are their equal in defense.

It's not cheating, but it's weak sauce at the highest level.

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you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
but guess what, i dont put "sauce" on my food, so i don't care if you think its weak or not.

its about what i think its fun. and what my clan / friends think is fun. and what we think is strategic.
i could go on and on...

anyone's internet opinion on how we play is not going to shame me into changing if that's the intent.

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Originally Posted by VeeBirds

So if a kid rushes to TH10 but his defenses and offense are still TH7/8-ish level, he will weigh more than a 30/30 max TH9?
Talking about fair :rolleyes:

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No that's talking about stupid lol!

Lopsided bases will be dealt with, SC knows they can not continue to give such an advantage to such a silly "strategy". It is watering down wars and will lead to a race to the bottom if not curtailed. The problem is how do you remove the advantage from the "strategic" rushers and the clueless kids who rush. To large of a weight tax and the poor rushers would be slaughtered.

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Originally Posted by WastingGems

The problem is how do you remove the advantage from the "strategic" rushers and the clueless kids who rush. To large of a weight tax and the poor rushers would be slaughtered.

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I think solution is to not tax "bases" but to instead tax the clan if it is determined to be lopsided.

If you have a clan war with 8 badly rushed accounts and 2 engineered accounts they should somewhat offset eachother.

However if you have a clan war with 8 maxed .5 accounts and 2 defenseless accounts this clan would get taxed.

That being said, the tax should be small.

SC can definitely find a way to nerf the current engineering meta but they can't nerf engineering for long. SC uses an algorithm for matchmaking. Players will find a way to game that algorithm, whatever it may be.

Engineering is always going to be around unless SC gives outright preference to maxers. And i dont see why they would do that. Casual clans will occasionally get unfair matches with the current rule set. Favor max bases and they will get stomped on much more often. More dedicated clans will simply refuse to let people war until they max out their townhall. Less people would war, not more.

It's better to keep the rules consistent imo. At least theyre predictable.

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Originally Posted by Rbot14

SC did a great job of getting rid of the modded clans or people modding. Clans were modding used to get favorable advantage during wars etc.. However, engineered clans r still out there and bathing in unfavorable lopsided wins.. So what is the difference? Engineered or modded clans both get a favorable advantage and both have made war disgusting.

I know there are some ways to try to avoid engineered clans by not spreading out your Th lvls, and our clan has done that and more, but we still face these engineered lopsided clans!. Even if we try to cover the lopsided bases by making a strategic war plan, the war is still in favor of the engineered clans.

So if SC got rid of cheaters by stopping modded clans/people in their tracks. Why don't they find a way to get rid of engineered clans. And yes engineered clans are not much different than a modded clan. One used a 3rd party software, the other is cheating using trickery by cracking the current algorithm SC has for wars. Yes folks cheating, You have an extra Ace, king, queen, in your deck of cards you are cheating. Now let me get this straight. O.5 your base, until your troops are good enough for war does not constitute and engineered base in my books. That is just upgrading your base the correct way for war.

We need some suggestions out there!

• I.e. other clans report the engineering and or base in question and SC places a ban on that base from entering war for a 7 to 14 days so they can upgrade or buy their defenses.

• Or once the individual reaches a new th level the minute they upgrade any major war troop, (, golums, drags, valkaries, pekkas etc..) than that individual war weight goes up dramatically. So for example you have and engineered th9 , who just upgraded a dragon to lvl 4, that would hold the same war weight as putting down an xbow.
• Another way is if the match ups was off by one th level that person is only allowed to get 2 stars for a 100 percent score or some destruction penalty or loot penalty.

I don't know what else we can do folks something has to be done. Enough is enough!

Any suggestions or thoughts.

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Enough isn't enough OP. Because you fail to understand the mechanics of the game and others do, you complain.
9/10 clashers wont be reading this or invest the time and energy to upgrade their village with a war focussed attitude.
I say let them.

Yes, it seem unfair if a th8 has to "face" or is "matched" with a defenceless th11 or an engineered base. Problem here is the illusion he should be facing him in the first place.

People with defenceless and engineered bases are generally enthusiastic about the game and these accounts are generally second or third accounts. Many are great attackers and just love attacking. Yes, its demoralising to see your #1 base crushed by a defenceless th11 with max troops, but the owner of this account still had to know how to attack?

If every war was totally "balanced" it would get boring.

Currently in a war and we are outgunned on paper but they are a clan who haven't got a clue how to attack and we are winning.

Maybe we should bring an experience level into the game to make it fairer too?

Not all wars are winnable, do your best and move onto the next one and learn from your attacking failures.

While I don't like engineers and I really hope supercell finds a way to 'discourage' them, it isn't cheating. It is an exploit, yes, but it isn't cheating. To cheat they would have to use tools that aren't built into the app itself, which they do. They take advantage of the freedom given to upgrade your base and use it to 'beat' the war algorithm.

I say if youre town hall 10, welcome to town hall 10, you get matched with th10s.

They do this for multiplayer, not sure why war is any different.

They can take into account defense strength when matching th10s to other th10s.

IMHO going to th10 should add the war weight of 2 lvl3 infernos. Use that as a baseline.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rbot14

SC did a great job of getting rid of the modded clans or people modding. Clans were modding used to get favorable advantage during wars etc.. However, engineered clans r still out there and bathing in unfavorable lopsided wins.. So what is the difference? Engineered or modded clans both get a favorable advantage and both have made war disgusting.

I know there are some ways to try to avoid engineered clans by not spreading out your Th lvls, and our clan has done that and more, but we still face these engineered lopsided clans!. Even if we try to cover the lopsided bases by making a strategic war plan, the war is still in favor of the engineered clans.

So if SC got rid of cheaters by stopping modded clans/people in their tracks. Why don't they find a way to get rid of engineered clans. And yes engineered clans are not much different than a modded clan. One used a 3rd party software, the other is cheating using trickery by cracking the current algorithm SC has for wars. Yes folks cheating, You have an extra Ace, king, queen, in your deck of cards you are cheating. Now let me get this straight. O.5 your base, until your troops are good enough for war does not constitute and engineered base in my books. That is just upgrading your base the correct way for war.

We need some suggestions out there!

• I.e. other clans report the engineering and or base in question and SC places a ban on that base from entering war for a 7 to 14 days so they can upgrade or buy their defenses.

• Or once the individual reaches a new th level the minute they upgrade any major war troop, (, golums, drags, valkaries, pekkas etc..) than that individual war weight goes up dramatically. So for example you have and engineered th9 , who just upgraded a dragon to lvl 4, that would hold the same war weight as putting down an xbow.
• Another way is if the match ups was off by one th level that person is only allowed to get 2 stars for a 100 percent score or some destruction penalty or loot penalty.

I don't know what else we can do folks something has to be done. Enough is enough!

Any suggestions or thoughts.

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please define the offence weight to defence weight ratio that decides if a clan is cheating? Assuming a maxer clan has a ratio of 1 and a .5 full clan a ratio of 0.75, then at what point it is cheatin?

why that point?

what is your clans ratio?

how do you know then you are not cheating?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azrial

I think solution is to not tax "bases" but to instead tax the clan if it is determined to be lopsided.

If you have a clan war with 8 badly rushed accounts and 2 engineered accounts they should somewhat offset eachother.

However if you have a clan war with 8 maxed .5 accounts and 2 defenseless accounts this clan would get taxed.

That being said, the tax should be small.

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Someone with reason.

1000 docates for you sir.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crazybod

Enough isn't enough OP. Because you fail to understand the mechanics of the game and others do, you complain.
9/10 clashers wont be reading this or invest the time and energy to upgrade their village with a war focussed attitude.
I say let them.

Yes, it seem unfair if a th8 has to "face" or is "matched" with a defenceless th11 or an engineered base. Problem here is the illusion he should be facing him in the first place.

People with defenceless and engineered bases are generally enthusiastic about the game and these accounts are generally second or third accounts. Many are great attackers and just love attacking. Yes, its demoralising to see your #1 base crushed by a defenceless th11 with max troops, but the owner of this account still had to know how to attack?

If every war was totally "balanced" it would get boring.

Currently in a war and we are outgunned on paper but they are a clan who haven't got a clue how to attack and we are winning.

Maybe we should bring an experience level into the game to make it fairer too?

Not all wars are winnable, do your best and move onto the next one and learn from your attacking failures.

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Few things wrong with your post IMO.
1st paragraph I would say 999/1000 and you attacked the person not the issue
2nd paragraph- simply a distraction from main issue.
3rd paragraph- As discussed in most other engineered threads the issue lies with 2,4,6...etc extra max level attacks that are given, all other things equal that clan should never lose.
4 th- with balance the truly better attackers and base builders would win, not those that simply use "strategy " to trick an algorithm
5th-
6th-
7th- They would be if people didn't trick the algorithm to give themselves an edge (some would claim to make up for lack of attacking ability )

Unfortunately, saying engineering is the same as cheating/modding is likely to derail your intended discussion OP. Anyway, SC can ruin engineering easily by making each base weigh at minimum the weight of a hall maxed out one level below. This would make .5s ok but would end lopsided bases. However, it also would hurt the badly rushed (not engineered) bases too. Some say that's ok because they already are at a terrible disadvantage in war, but others say it would hurt the casual player too much. Personally, I think there is a middle ground, such as making each base weigh at minimum an amount equal to the hall below it if it was, say, 50% maxed out. This would would not end engineering as effectively but also would not hurt badly rushed bases as much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smalls

The whole "loot protection" argument is a joke. It doesn't matter if you have Infernos, EA, everything maxed or not. Your loot is going to get taken regardless of whether you are rushed or maxed.

But you get a longer shield if you give up more % on defense. And you can raid more times during your shield than someone with maxed defenses because it's longer.

So just stop with the loot and the regular MM arguments.

The fact is that a lot of times engineering ruins wars for people. You either have to attack a defenseless base (or one WAY below your skill level) - which is ridiculously boring or get smashed by people who don't have the intestinal fortitude to attack bases that are their equal in defense.

It's not cheating, but it's weak sauce at the highest level.

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what defence to offence ratio is weak sauce? 1? 0.75? 0.88? 0.5?

why at that specific clan defence to offence ratio does the sauce become weak. If its not a cutoff then for every 0.01 change in ratio, how much does the sauce get weaker by, and at what point is it no longer etible? Why?

There is a very simple solution to engineering that I posted in the past. I guess that SC is not that interested in solving it as this topic is keep coming up. There are two measures to consider when making a match: defense weight that I call D and offense weight that I call O. Now war weight is measured only or primarily by D. Obviously we cannot change it to O since the engineers will engineer offense (upgrade only one troop that they use in war). The simple solution is therefore a mixed measure which a sum of D and O, something like w1*O + (1-w1)*D where w1 is a number between 0 and 1 and is decided randomly by SC during matching. The randomness is a critical part since otherwise it will be possible to engineer the new weight. If w1 is one then the war will be decided by offense weight and if w1 is zero the war will be decided by defense weight. If the process is kept random there will be no advantage to emphasizing offense or defense, both will have equal (but random) weight which means the end to engineering.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CosmicCharlie

I say if youre town hall 10, welcome to town hall 10, you get matched with th10s.

They do this for multiplayer, not sure why war is any different.

They can take into account defense strength when matching th10s to other th10s.

IMHO going to th10 should add the war weight of 2 lvl3 infernos. Use that as a baseline.

---

That doesn't stop me from engineering my clan. Instead of bringing defenseless TH11's to war, I'll bring max (royalty, walls, defense) TH9's, 10's and 11's. I will still have the advantage because every other clan has members that want to progress their village, and you can't progress your village without, at least for a period of time, be less than maxed. I don't have clan members like that because I am my entire clan. If I want account #12 to stay max TH10 for the foreseeable future to help guarantee war victories, then so be it.

I think the people who suggest that people get banned for engineering should instead be banned themselves for being a self righteous person that believes everyone with values different from their own should be punished.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tallas13

That doesn't stop me from engineering my clan. Instead of bringing defenseless TH11's to war, I'll bring max (royalty, walls, defense) TH9's, 10's and 11's. I will still have the advantage because every other clan has members that want to progress their village, and you can't progress your village without, at least for a period of time, be less than maxed. I don't have clan members like that because I am my entire clan. If I want account #12 to stay max TH10 for the foreseeable future to help guarantee war victories, then so be it.

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I bet that cuts down on clanmate drama too, doesn't it? Or is there a personality associated with every account ;)

Modding was against the ToS, engineering is not. Also, it's not so easy to discern between a well-engineered clan and a rushed clan. Plus, where do you draw the line at "engineering"?

1 th3 at bottom of an otherwise very well balanced clan
2 th5 at bottom of an otherwise 20v20 th10-th8 maxer clan
3 early 9.5's in an otherwise all th8-10 roster of maxed bases
1 th3 and 4 8.5's in an otherwise th7-9 clan
Top 3 bases all maxed defensively, all others missing 1-3 splash defenses, but max heroes and walls on all accounts
Full max th7-9 clan, with 40/40/20 defenseless th11 sitting on bottom of war roster
11 "real" bases and 9 th3 on bottom of roster to pull easiest opponent possible
Full roster engineering from top to bottom. max th11 on top, next a mid th10 with max offense that's impossible for a th9 to 3*, then 20 th 8.5's and 18 th 7.5's.

Allowing clans to report others will be abused by almost every clan any time they feel they could have/should have won a war.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hatchlhoff

I bet that cuts down on clanmate drama too, doesn't it? Or is there a personality associated with every account ;)

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That could be tough in a 50 man war roster...are there even 50 distinct personality archetypes?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WastingGems

Few things wrong with your post IMO.
1st paragraph I would say 999/1000 and you attacked the person not the issue
2nd paragraph- simply a distraction from main issue.
3rd paragraph- As discussed in most other engineered threads the issue lies with 2,4,6...etc extra max level attacks that are given, all other things equal that clan should never lose.
4 th- with balance the truly better attackers and base builders would win, not those that simply use "strategy " to trick an algorithm
5th-
6th-
7th- They would be if people didn't trick the algorithm to give themselves an edge (some would claim to make up for lack of attacking ability )

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Ok, I'll keep it short and simple

The issue is.......there is no issue. Its a strategy game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crazybod

Ok, I'll keep it short and simple

The issue is.......there is no issue. Its a strategy game.

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Agreed, use stragetic attacking and base building, not tricking an algorithm to give you cupcakes.

My clan is currently warring with "engineered" bases and i feel we get matched fairly with opposing clans. Our wars end with one team winning by 1-2 stars or a tie. Our longest win streak is 3.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by woemygod

I am going all out engineering on three of my accounts and maxing only my primary. It's the future of wars. Not the other way round. The game is called a strategy game. Engineering or lop sided bases are a strategy that loves offences without working hard on defs. Why should they be treated unfairly?

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Hey if you can't beat them join them. I will engineer too. I guess if SC doesn't fix, engineering will be the meta!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rbot14

Hey if you can't beat them join them. I will engineer too. I guess if SC doesn't fix, engineering will be the meta!

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It already is lol. Welcome to Clash of Clans! It's super fun 😊😊

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WastingGems

Agreed, use stragetic attacking and base building, not tricking an algorithm to give you cupcakes.

---

Sadly, the cupcakes given are oftentimes bitter and associated with losing...


(Engineered clans , save for hyper-engineered ones, often lose... sometimes just as much as regular clans, if not, more)

Engineering isn't cheating. There is no reason to waste space with that debate. Whether it is honorable or not is a matter of opinion (I think it is totally fine). However, if it is taking away the fun of too many players such that they lose interest and don't play as much, then that makes SC want to adjust the matchmaking to take away the advantage, which is also fine, even though I think engineering to take advantage is ok.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2222

Engineering isn't cheating. There is no reason to waste space with that debate. Whether it is honorable or not is a matter of opinion (I think it is totally fine). However, if it is taking away the fun of too many players such that they lose interest and don't play as much, then that makes SC want to adjust the matchmaking to take away the advantage, which is also fine, even though I think engineering to take advantage is ok.

---

10000 docates.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SupremeCleave

Sadly, the cupcakes given are oftentimes bitter and associated with losing...


(Engineered clans , save for hyper-engineered ones, often lose... sometimes just as much as regular clans, if not, more)

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Yeah, your hosed either way you go. You max and the MM gives you a match where your 3 maxed th9's are matched against 3 th10's (any stage of development) You engineer with an 8.5 and you get matched with a full (a lot of cases maxed) th9 and so on up the scale. You pay SC heaps of $$ for a lopsided base and you get big win streaks. The only way to manipulate the MM is to give SC $$. If you can't pay to win, you have to be a stellar attacker to beat the MM no matter how you progress your base.

I ace 99.9% of all th9's attacks with my 8.5 with 10/10 heroes (even 9.5's when I have too). the second I drop x-bows I will probably draw a th10. I honestly don't know what to do anymore. So I'll just err on the side of caution and hope (just a little) that the missing wight of my xbows added to the overall clan weight will give us a more balanced/even war and that the opposing clans attackers are like the majority of clash players that can't 3 star a town hall below.

I don't (cowardly as some say) dip on my attacks with my 8.5'. I usually am hitting the top or close to the top th9's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2222

Engineering isn't cheating. There is no reason to waste space with that debate. Whether it is honorable or not is a matter of opinion (I think it is totally fine). However, if it is taking away the fun of too many players such that they lose interest and don't play as much, then that makes SC want to adjust the matchmaking to take away the advantage, which is also fine, even though I think engineering to take advantage is ok.

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I like O.P.s title, Remember the Th snipers/shield? People used to say that was people were taking advantage to trophy push without having to do much work. people got a shield without having to do much except put there base in the corner. SC fixed the th snipes by making a simple fix. They solved the issue that allowed the game to be played the way it was meant to be.

It is not cheating but because most people are taking advantage of engineering their bases, it is the meta thing to do now and soon we will all engineer our bases so we do not get disadvantaged.

They can easily fix the issue with lopsided bases. O.P. made a good suggestion. If a war troop, is upgraded beyond your th lvl, such as a golum, dragon, etc.. they should match you with the same th lvl.

That is a great idea but I would make a modification, it if the a person has upgraded 3 major war army or heavy troops, than that persons gets automatically matched with the same th lvl. One is not enough. I would say 3 would be a fair way to say your troops are ready for war for that specific th lvl. So in other words the MM will check to see if you have upgraded 3 major army troops at your th lvl and if you have than the MM will place your mirror as the same th lvl, than after that the mm would calculate the defensive war weight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2222

However, if it is taking away the fun of too many players such that they lose interest and don't play as much, then that makes SC want to adjust the matchmaking to take away the advantage,

---

We have a plethora of posts on the forums already indicating people are not happy with lopsided matchmaking.

Fair Play? When your only hope against an engineered clan is to TIE. SuoerCell can simply, balance match making by averaging the players attack and defend capability, IF THEY WANTED TO. The question is, why dont they? My speculation is, a lot of players with engineered bases are heavy gem users. That is the only thing I can think of...
If I am mistaken, any logical explanation?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SuperStorm103

Yeah, your hosed either way you go. You max and the MM gives you a match where your 3 maxed th9's are matched against 3 th10's (any stage of development) You engineer with an 8.5 and you get matched with a full (a lot of cases maxed) th9 and so on up the scale. You pay SC heaps of $$ for a lopsided base and you get big win streaks. The only way to manipulate the MM is to give SC $$. If you can't pay to win, you have to be a stellar attacker to beat the MM no matter how you progress your base.

I ace 99.9% of all th9's attacks with my 8.5 with 10/10 heroes (even 9.5's when I have too). the second I drop x-bows I will probably draw a th10. I honestly don't know what to do anymore. So I'll just err on the side of caution and hope (just a little) that the missing wight of my xbows added to the overall clan weight will give us a more balanced/even war and that the opposing clans attackers are like the majority of clash players that can't 3 star a town hall below.

I don't (cowardly as some say) dip on my attacks with my 8.5'. I usually am hitting the top or close to the top th9's.

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As a TH9 even with lvl 3 bows you will not pull a TH10 (or even a 9.5, since you have lvl10 heros).

Reading some of the replies in this thread, it is obvious the thread started in the general sub forum... I don't get how you guys (you know who you are) have the patience to deal with those replies....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RagnarFurias

war map placement is a good indication about how much that base weights in wars. Every level of xbow adds a lot of weight to the base, so the person can leave his xbow as lv1 and upgrade to th11...

i agree to voganainem. Since we have 1 base and 2 attacks, offense should weight more.

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each base has however as many defences as their are attacks on opposing team, so maybe defence should weigh 10 times more then?

Or is this a silly method to determine the relative war weightings?

https://i.imgflip.com/1gvb5m.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prosper12

I disagree. I like O.P. title, Remember the Th snipers/shield? People used to say that was cheating to trophy push without having to do much work. people got a shield without having to do much except put there base in the corner. SC fixed the th snipes by making a simple fix. They solved the issue that allowed the game to be played the way it was meant to be.

They can easily fix the issue with lopsided bases. O.P. made a good suggestion. If a war troop, is upgraded beyond your th lvl, such as a golum, dragon, etc.. they should match you with the same th lvl.

That is a great idea but I would make a modification, it if the a person has upgraded 3 major war army or heavy troops, than that persons gets automatically matched with the same th lvl. One is not enough. I would say 3 would be a fair way to say your troops are ready for war for that specific th lvl. So in other words the MM will check to see if you have upgraded 3 major army troops at your th lvl and if you have than the MM will place your mirror as the same th lvl, than after that the mm would calculate the defensive war weight.





We have a plethora of posts on the forums already indicating people are not happy with lopsided matchmaking.

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I do remember the hall sniping and I don't remember people calling it cheating, because, of course, it wasn't cheating. Some might have called it weak, some might have called it boring, some might have called it a cheap way to play, but no one could reasonably have called it cheating. Why? Because it wasn't breaking any rules that would constitute cheating.

I agree there are a lot of people unhappy with engineering. There are also many who support it. I lean more toward thinking SC should do more to stop it.

I like the idea of a minimum weight per hall level better than what you suggested.

If SC changes it, I'm ok with that and if SC doesn't change it, I'm ok with that. What I don't agree with is the illogical claim that engineering is cheating. It isn't. There may be many negative words that apply, but cheating isn't one of them.

so many pages so fast... It's almost like everyone's dumb enough to think something will be decided in a war forum thread. Should have been put in the 'suggestions' forum to die rather than here, there was some decent strategy information here before it became the All Engineering All The Time forum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

so many pages so fast... It's almost like everyone's dumb enough to think something will be decided in a war forum thread. Should have been put in the 'suggestions' forum to die rather than here, there was some decent strategy information here before it became the All Engineering All The Time forum.

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Engineering needs a sticky, or a sub sub forum to clan wars

I think.. (as you all debate). Made clash more fun. I have a 88 war weight th10. (non rushed) and with Holiday specials. :) a 57 weight th10! I'm in a small clan and having fun! 10V10 wars! We don't always win.. Love to let my Mini attack! I'm happy to clean up! Haha. Thanks to all the posts telling me how not to play!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

so many pages so fast... It's almost like everyone's dumb enough to think something will be decided in a war forum thread. Should have been put in the 'suggestions' forum to die rather than here, there was some decent strategy information here before it became the All Engineering All The Time forum.

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Wait are you telling me the SC employees don't read all of these posts and instantly test out the ideas?

Seriously, though, I do think SC notices when a there is a theme in the forums. They aren't dumb enough to think the small percentage of players posting here represent the entire playing community, but I bet they also notice when the topic gets loud enough and don't totally ignore it all either. Just because they don't implement something doesn't mean it wasn't noticed by an employee.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tallas13

That doesn't stop me from engineering my clan. Instead of bringing defenseless TH11's to war, I'll bring max (royalty, walls, defense) TH9's, 10's and 11's. I will still have the advantage because every other clan has members that want to progress their village, and you can't progress your village without, at least for a period of time, be less than maxed. I don't have clan members like that because I am my entire clan. If I want account #12 to stay max TH10 for the foreseeable future to help guarantee war victories, then so be it.

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You missed the part where i said to weigh within townhall level. A rushed af th10 should weigh at least what a max th9 does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2222

Wait are you telling me the SC employees don't read all of these posts and instantly test out the ideas?

Seriously, though, I do think SC notices when a there is a theme in the forums. They aren't dumb enough to think the small percentage of players posting here represent the entire playing community, but I bet they also notice when the topic gets loud enough and don't totally ignore it all either. Just because they don't implement something doesn't mean it wasn't noticed by an employee.

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Yeah I have to agree and yet, I think that they rely on their own data to drive changes more so than anything else...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tallas13

I can just as easily take advantage of this algorithm. I will just only bring max bases (for their TH level) to war.

I will only bring TH9's with 30/30 heros and all defenses and walls maxed, TH10's with 40/40 and all defenses and walls maxed and all TH11's with 45/45/20 with all defenses and walls maxed.

There will always be a way to *game* the system and I will always find it.

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Hahaha yes good. Then at least it be fair fight. Townhall to townhall. Which one will win?? :)

It is unfair to expect th4 to take out th 10 etc.

I don't think engineering and engineered clans is cheating, since it is allowed in game by supercell. But why is war different then say multi-player matching..?? In multi-player 99% of the time you match townhall to townhall.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daisycloud

Hahaha yes good. Then at least it be fair fight. Townhall to townhall. Which one will win?? :)

It is unfair to expect th4 to take out th 10 etc.

I don't think engineering and engineered clans is cheating, since it is allowed in game by supercell. But why is war different then say multi-player matching..?? In multi-player 99% of the time you match townhall to townhall.

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Because engineering takes into account the whole war roster. When someone says their th7 matched an engineered th10 and the mirror isnt fair, it shows they dont know how engineers work or what it actually does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleMoon

Because engineering takes into account the whole war roster. When someone says their th7 matched an engineered th10 and the mirror isnt fair, it shows they dont know how engineers work or what it actually does.

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Replace "engineering" with "matchmaking" and you will be on the right track...