Fix the war matching algorithm

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Originally Posted by Prince1999

This is a great question. What is the definition of "engineering"? I can't say that there is an official definition. I can say that SC has made strides to match clans with other clans that fall in their same "category" of either "balanced" or "lopsided". Therefore, you can answer this question for yourself. If you generally get matched with engineered clans, then you are engineered/lopsided. If, as us, you are not getting matched with engineers, then you can say that you are balanced.

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catagory A or offence to defence ratio engineering is present when your defence weight is 74% below your offence weight, taken on a clanwide level.

category B roster engineers is much harder to define, and category 3 intra def/off tradeoff off engineering, also needs a tight objective definition.

lets work on it.

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Originally Posted by HumptyGoblin

I don't recall reading anywhere where the OP demanded his 10.5 be matched up with a 9. That's not to say it didn't happen, but if you could quote it I would appreciate it as it would change my confidence in the OP's ideas of MM.

And no, I do not consider a 10.5 with max valks, level 5 gol, level 2 miners, level 2 bowlers, and 240 camp space engineering. Maybe you meant 9.5? And are your referring to the same 2 with 30/31 heroes? Again it seems that the definition of engineer is what we differ on. It doesn't bother me in the least that we don't agree on that. People can mess around in their current TH level all they want after maxing the previous level and it doesn't bother me. You stated in your second paragraph that .5's are matched up with max level defenses of the same TH level often times since the October update. That's a massive step in the right direction. If OP wants to complain about that then he's got problems.

A 9.5 matching with a 10 is not what I would consider a nasty match. Nor with any .5 matching with a fully defended TH of the same level. When we achieve this, you will not read any complaints from me. There is nothing I would like to see more than the death of defenseless bases or actual engineers who drag their feet on defenses 2 TH's lower than where they're at.

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Upthread OP mentioned mismatches on offense & defense, looking back at that in context I'll drop the point because I'm not even sure what he's talking about. You're correct that I miswrote about the 10.5s - they're actually 9.5s (9.9s might be more accurate). 240 camps, 5 spells, giants valks gols bowlers upgraded to th10 level. That is engineering by just about everybody's definition, but AGAIN if the term engineering is the stumbling block, call it lopsided. As in offensively heavy, lopsided. Exactly what Anoushka said SC would be targeting, right around the time OPs troubles began.
So, the 9.5s? Lopsided. OP's 8.5? Lopsided. Faiz (and until recently, OP's main)? Lopsided. There's probably more, but I won't be looking.
I pointed these thing out not because I hate engineers, not because I think War Victory is doing anything immoral. I point it out because it is bad engineering, leads to wildly varying matches (including impossible ones). Also, since you look engineered (LOPSIDED) to the matchmaker, you're more likely to get matched with more extreme engineers (say, defenseless).

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Originally Posted by Vikingchief

catagory A or offence to defence ratio engineering is present when your defence weight is 74% below your offence weight, taken on a clanwide level.

category B roster engineers is much harder to define, and category 3 intra def/off tradeoff off engineering, also needs a tight objective definition.

lets work on it.

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The term's been in use for two years, if the definition isn't clear it never will be. For those who practice it, it's always meant optimizing your base for war, accounting for both game mechanics and the matchmaker. It incorporates both 'defending yourself against the matchmaker' by say, not rushing to drop infernos, and 'beating the matchmaker' by say, building defenseless if you think that will work.
The problem is probably that people want to make it an insult or accusation, so they feel a need to make it a lot more specific. To carefully have it apply not to themselves, but to everyone that takes it one step farther. As a wise man said, "I sensibly upgrade, the other guys engineer".

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

The term's been in use for two years, if the definition isn't clear it never will be. For those who practice it, it's always meant optimizing your base for war, accounting for both game mechanics and the matchmaker. It incorporates both 'defending yourself against the matchmaker' by say, not rushing to drop infernos, and 'beating the matchmaker' by say, building defenseless if you think that will work.
The problem is probably that people want to make it an insult or accusation, so they feel a need to make it a lot more specific. To carefully have it apply not to themselves, but to everyone that takes it one step farther. As a wise man said, "I sensibly upgrade, the other guys engineer".

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Yep. Also designing a base that will give you a fighting chance against same-level attackers, without adding too much weight too quickly. Almost everyone already does this, for example prioritizing air defenses at th8 and th9 to fight off hack dragon spammers. Is this engineering or simply smart upgrading?

When I was getting queen walked regularly, I tried maxing my teslas for a tesla trap; positioning some ad/mine combos to pick off a couple of healers; upgrading point d to try to win the damage race. It's helped, although certainly no guarantees.

Occasionally we even see a valk5 attacker fail to clear a well-designed th8.5, although that does require some real, er, talent on the other end. ;)

In my observation--you don't absolutely need max xbows to fight off a th9 attacker. You don't absolutely need inferno towers to fight off a th10 attacker. Skilled attackers of course will do just fine--but skilled attackers aren't the general rule outside of elite leagues, and if the enemy clan out-attacks you they've earned the win. So I don't see the problem with delaying defensive upgrades while building offense and walls, until you feel ready.

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Originally Posted by ace10

So, you've swung and missed a second time. STRIKE TWO.

You're now claiming that my base (ace10) is a "10.5." Hmm, interesting. Never seen a 104 Defensive weight base called that before.
Let's see what else is not correct, shall we?
Oh, yeah... 2 of the 5 "9.5s" are new to the clan within the past few weeks. Pretty obvious given the clan rank in the profiles.
And 4 of the 5 "9.5s" are simply new to TH10. They all went up recently after maxing 9. See the hero levels? See the very low troop development? Yeah, that's pretty obvious, too.
And the 8.5s.... they're all mini accounts. We war with zero up to three of them to fill out roster. Only one of them has any offense to speak of. And all are incrementally building defense in proportion to offense.

You're being untruthful with your posts and I'm not going to dance around that fact, either.

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i thought my home run was sufficient to shut the debate, but here you go again and again...Ace10, it seems like you like to take pleasure in being demolished by logical arguments.

Your above reply perfectly summed up why your clan is struggling now after 45 wins streak. Yet you keep on blaming mm instead looking in the mirror.

1-The October updated changed everything, yet you refuse to acknowledge it, even though Anouska from SC clearly spelled out what kind of trouble clan with lopsided bases like yours will face.

2-those 2 new 9.5s that just recently joined your clan further tipped your clan into the ''lopsided'' side, and as such, your clan will face heavier ''mismatch'' than in the past.

3-Four new TH10: i think this is the main reason why your clan is struggling. Attacking with TH10s is a huge step up from attacking with TH9. It is normal that these new TH10 will fail - every clan will go through this process. However, the problem is compounded by the fact your clan follows the flawed strategy of x.5 by heavily upgrading offense first. (yeah I know, this opinion is not very popular on this forum but then gain, most people don't understand the MM here). Those new TH10 rushed to get the 5th spell, camp to 240, Th10 troops etc while still largely kept defenses at TH9 level - thinking that they will attract other TH9s... But the reality is with the October update, they now attract other advanced to max TH10s instead. Enemy TH10 can easily crush your 9.5s while the opposite is not true, since your TH10 are new with little TH10 attack experience. Hence your clan is struggling, hence your clan is losing, hence your clan comes to the forum to complain...

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Originally Posted by topbtm

i thought my home run was sufficient to shut the debate, but here you go again and again...Ace10, it seems like you like to take pleasure in being demolished by logical arguments.

Your above reply perfectly summed up why your clan is struggling now after 45 wins streak. Yet you keep on blaming mm instead looking in the mirror.

1-The October updated changed everything, yet you refuse to acknowledge it, even though Anouska from SC clearly spelled out what kind of trouble clan with lopsided bases like yours will face.

2-those 2 new 9.5s that just recently joined your clan further tipped your clan into the ''lopsided'' side, and as such, your clan will face heavier ''mismatch'' than in the past.

3-Four new TH10: i think this is the main reason why your clan is struggling. Attacking with TH10s is a huge step up from attacking with TH9. It is normal that these new TH10 will fail - every clan will go through this process. However, the problem is compounded by the fact your clan follows the flawed strategy of x.5 by heavily upgrading offense first. (yeah I know, this opinion is not very popular on this forum but then gain, most people don't understand the MM here). Those new TH10 rushed to get the 5th spell, camp to 240, Th10 troops etc while still largely kept defenses at TH9 level - thinking that they will attract other TH9s... But the reality is with the October update, they now attract other advanced to max TH10s instead. Enemy TH10 can easily crush your 9.5s while the opposite is not true, since your TH10 are new with little TH10 attack experience. Hence your clan is struggling, hence your clan is losing, hence your clan comes to the forum to complain...

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There are so many flaws in your "logic" that it is painful to even reply to your points.

1-The October update may have changed the match algorithm, however, my clan managed to win TWENTY SEVEN straight immediately following. No major changes to the roster. We have a very stable group of people in the clan. Going from memory, there were two or three engineer clans in there, but the mismatched were manageable. Nothing at all like we have been seeing over the past three weeks.

THEN, 23 days ago we began this twelve war stretch which I have spelled out very clearly. Suddenly we begin to lose at a 25% rate.... four wars. ALL WERE UNWINNABLE.

So yeah, please go ahead and attribute this to the October update. Stats don't lie.

2-Only one of the two you mention are warring. You seem to assume that everyone in my clan wars every war. Look at the hero development. That ain't all time gemming.

3-Ive asked this question SEVERAL TIMES and not received a response.... Are you suggesting that newly upgraded THs should upgrade defenses immediately after moving up? Please do speak authoritatively, as the forum is watching......

You've also avoided my direct question about the fairness of matching to a clan which has a 4X advantage in warden hits. Please speak up, I'm listening....

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

Thanks. One obvious other motivation occurred to me that I didn't mention earlier...

Defensive engineering. This is not trying to set up so that you stomp enemies, but trying to set up your clan so that you don't get stomped by enemies. And this can take 2 forms... a bit of mild engineering yourself to try to mitigate the effect of enemy engineering. Not enough to give stupidly easy wars, but maybe give you a chance against some engineered enemies. (eg going a bit lopsided with x.5s during the March-October period) Or alternatively engineering your roster so you get good matchups - either dodging engineers as in the fairly drastic roster engineering suggested in this thread. And/or simply organising your clan so there's a higher probability of a good match (if your clan is similar to thousands of other clans you have a good chance of balanced wars; if your clan is weird as hell you're going to get flaky matches)

And I'm also a believer in the "everyone is an engineer" philosophy. If a TH10 with max-ish defences and 10/10 heroes applies to your clan, do you let them in to war? I doubt it, and we certainly don't. Why not? Because you think doing so would hurt you; and rejecting them improves your chances in war. The reality is that (almost) every clan makes some decisions about their roster and what people can build to help their chances in war. The clan doing the defenceless TH11 isn't travelling a fundamentally different road - they've just gone a lot, lot, lot further down that road. Certainly those defenceless are irritating to most people, but it's a pretty blurry line as to what's OK (I've asked a few of the foaming-at-the-mouth-anti-engineers on here what is "acceptable", and got quite variable answers).

So when you ask why do people engineer, often the answer isn't fundamentally different to why you reject that TH10 with garbage heroes. When faced with a crazy engineered clan it might all look pointless and boring - and to you or me it probably would be - but the underlying motivation is similar, and either they don't get bored so easily, or didn't foresee how tedious it would become.

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Spot on as usual OnyxDS. We fall under this category because of repeated matchups with defenseless 10's at the bottom.

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Originally Posted by Vikingchief

Denton was appointed head of engineering 6 weeks ago, a contested decision but a binding one nonetheless.

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Nice one VC! :D

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Originally Posted by Denton

You just made my Monday VC! :cool:

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So Denton, what's your plan since assuming your new "role"? :p

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Originally Posted by ace10

There are so many flaws in your "logic" that it is painful to even reply to your points.

1-The October update may have changed the match algorithm, however, my clan managed to win TWENTY SEVEN straight immediately following. No major changes to the roster. We have a very stable group of people in the clan. Going from memory, there were two or three engineer clans in there, but the mismatched were manageable. Nothing at all like we have been seeing over the past three weeks.

THEN, 23 days ago we began this twelve war stretch which I have spelled out very clearly. Suddenly we begin to lose at a 25% rate.... four wars. ALL WERE UNWINNABLE.

So yeah, please go ahead and attribute this to the October update. Stats don't lie.

2-Only one of the two you mention are warring. You seem to assume that everyone in my clan wars every war. Look at the hero development. That ain't all time gemming.

3-Ive asked this question SEVERAL TIMES and not received a response.... Are you suggesting that newly upgraded THs should upgrade defenses immediately after moving up? Please do speak authoritatively, as the forum is watching......

You've also avoided my direct question about the fairness of matching to a clan which has a 4X advantage in warden hits. Please speak up, I'm listening....

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-4x warden attack is not a mismatch in itself. Depends on the rest of the clan and match up. But hey you don't want anybody to come and analyze your match ups....

-I advocate building in a balance fashion when upgrading to a new th.

-it took United PH a few weeks after your streak is lost to lose its own streak. One can see also that UPH wars became tighter and tighter...until it finally lost. So yeah, the October update is partly responsible for your clan struggles. It just happened that you guys are skilled and were able to kept the streak going on for 27 wars.

We stopped doing wars already ...

I have friends in another clan and so I asked some of my clanmates to join them for war ... We just farm nowadays ...

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Originally Posted by SpookyPookie

Tell me Denton , when did SC appoint you Head of Engineering?

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Originally Posted by Vikingchief

Denton was appointed head of engineering 6 weeks ago, a contested decision but a binding one nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Denton

You just made my Monday VC! :cool:

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Originally Posted by KingKreg

This is correct. Denton is the head of the engineering staff, surrounded by a table of a variety of engineers. He has a plaque on his desk too.

ROFL... I'm dying...

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Originally Posted by nightmare77

Spot on as usual OnyxDS. We fall under this category because of repeated matchups with defenseless 10's at the bottom.


Nice one VC! :D


So Denton, what's your plan since assuming your new "role"? :p

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I can confirm that Denton has indeed been appointed Head of Engineering for 2017. The exit polls suggested he was losing the contest, but as we know (Brexit,POTUS), exit polls can be misleading.

As of January 1st, he has his own private office , letter opener, fish tank, and Clash of Clans snow globe. No doubt, he will be surrounding himself with some naughty engineering peeps, but the community can feel assured, we have multiple audio and video devices hidden secretly around his office (don't shake that snow globe too hard!!!), and if required, our Maxer Security Team can be called upon, at a minutes notice, to give him a little slap with any of the various wet fish, found in said tank.

He will also be appearing in an upcoming episode of James Corden's (Late Late Show) Carpool Karaoke, and has already been signed up to play a dragon, in the next series of Game of Thrones!

Congrats Denton!:)

The war matching nowdays is more than disgusting!!! Second war we gonna loose and I knew that before we even started!!! We don't have any rushed TH's. I'm the leader with a strong almost maxed TH10 and the other three under me are 2/3 finished TH9's. Guess what was the enemy clan? As strong TH10 as me thats fine so far, then 3 more TH9 who was maxed and been on my level!!! In return we had 1-2 town hall advantage on the bottom where it is absolutely insignificant. This is not fair at all!!! I'm a TH10 and I can normally easily get 2 stars on TH10s but this time I had only 1 star on a TH9 who was on the same level as me and that was only the third on the grid...
We used to be a winning team and nowdays because of the matching it is almost impossible. The team has not changed much and as I said no rushed THs. I think something needs to be done with the balancing, TH5s and TH6s should not be able to compensate maxed town halls on the front!
It is just makes good clans seem like they dont know anything about the game. Even do I know what is gonna happen because of the level differences.

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Originally Posted by P4K

Guess what was the enemy clan? As strong TH10 as me thats fine so far, then 3 more TH9 who was maxed and been on my level!!! . Even do I know what is gonna happen because of the level differences.

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Your 'level' is irrelevant in matchmaking. One of the best ways to increase your 'level' is by donating large quantities of troops. This doesn't affect your base strength, or your attacking skill.
If you are a " strong, almost maxed TH10" and you got 1 star on a TH9, then I'm afraid you need to look in the mirror, and not blame the Matchmaking algorithm .... sorry!:unsure:

Dear SC, I want to complaining about your war system matchmaking, because our last war is really disappointing.. I am max th8 with max troops upgrading to th9, and the system match me with th11 with max miner which only have 2 xbow, 1 Canon..And that person eventually 3stars our no1 at war.. I play COC for fun, and I feel being cheated in this war. I hope in the future you can fixed the system because I think our clan is a good clan (lv10) and we only look for fair game to play, thank you SC :)

The clan I'm in is not engineered (no .5 bases, no rushed ones either), yet we see engineers in the war all the time. SC's reluctance to put weight on the lab only tells me one thing that they're unwilling to nerf lopsided bases altogether in the war algorithm as they see them good for their economy.

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Originally Posted by peaceterrorist

The clan I'm in is not engineered (no .5 bases, no rushed ones either), yet we see engineers in the war all the time. SC's reluctance to put weight on the lab only tells me one thing that they're unwilling to nerf lopsided bases altogether in the war algorithm as they see them good for their economy.

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SC did tweak the MM to place more importance on the offensive strength of bases in war. Hero levels, spells, camp sizes, troop levels- are all taken into account when coming up with the overall weight a clan takes to war.

It's not a question of being good for the economy. One could argue more gems are spent by maxers that quickly arrived endgame, than a defenseless that only spends gems on one side of the field.

You should take a closer look at the makeup you are taking into wars, if you feel you are always pairing with engineered clans. Also, keep in mind its an overall weight matchup- so unless that defenseless base has weak offense relative to his town hall level- you are going to see an advantage for your side somewhere else in the matchup.

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Originally Posted by peaceterrorist

The clan I'm in is not engineered (no .5 bases, no rushed ones either), yet we see engineers in the war all the time. SC's reluctance to put weight on the lab only tells me one thing that they're unwilling to nerf lopsided bases altogether in the war algorithm as they see them good for their economy.

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Of course peace!! It's all about the money. Like donald trump said about hillary's corruption, "follow the money." Put the heavyweight into the town hall, take heroes and troops into consideration cuz thats WHAT MATTERS.... then everything will work itself out. Then people will think twice before upgrading town halls, and all the engineers will have to drop their eagles and infernos and bows and then the clash world will be a happy, fair place. All engineers care about are winstreaks anyway, they dont care about loot cuz they dont upgrade defenses anyway lol. Once that precious FAKE winstreak gets snapped believe me, it will be such an emptiness inside for them. It will hurt. It will leave them with a '0' next to the winstreak column and a bunch of weak bases. Then they'll have to write in their motto what their record is to solidify themselves. JOKE

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Originally Posted by peaceterrorist

The clan I'm in is not engineered (no .5 bases, no rushed ones either), yet we see engineers in the war all the time. SC's reluctance to put weight on the lab only tells me one thing that they're unwilling to nerf lopsided bases altogether in the war algorithm as they see them good for their economy.

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Why do you assume your clan is automatically at disadvantaged when facing enginneered clans? Are you using the mirror bases comparison to assess match ups? My clan sometimes face them, but it gets quite boring because since the October update, engineered clans are in so much at a disadvantage.

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Originally Posted by daddylindo

Of course peace!! It's all about the money. Like donald trump said about hillary's corruption, "follow the money." Put the heavyweight into the town hall, take heroes and troops into consideration cuz thats WHAT MATTERS.... then everything will work itself out. Then people will think twice before upgrading town halls, and all the engineers will have to drop their eagles and infernos and bows and then the clash world will be a happy, fair place. All engineers care about are winstreaks anyway, they dont care about loot cuz they dont upgrade defenses anyway lol. Once that precious FAKE winstreak gets snapped believe me, it will be such an emptiness inside for them. It will hurt. It will leave them with a '0' next to the winstreak column and a bunch of weak bases. Then they'll have to write in their motto what their record is to solidify themselves. JOKE

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Why is it engineered clans seem to be the ones that complain the loudest...about other engineering?

I looked over your clan... found it funny that you have a bunch of non active TH3s sitting at the bottom of the clan. Slow golf clap.

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Originally Posted by cnaf

Why is it engineered clans seem to be the ones that complain the loudest...about other engineering?

I looked over your clan... found it funny that you have a bunch of non active TH3s sitting at the bottom of the clan. Slow golf clap.

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I dont put all 3 of em in. Only use 1 now. And i saw your recruitment post the other night. Any respect I had for your posts before, is all gone lol

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Originally Posted by daddylindo

I dont put all 3 of em in. Only use 1 now. And i saw your recruitment post the other night. Any respect I had for your posts before, is all gone lol

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All three? I counted 5. And that's not including your inactive TH6 as well. At least get the facts straight.

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Originally Posted by cnaf

All three? I counted 5. And that's not including your inactive TH6 as well. At least get the facts straight.

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You want facts? I'll give you facts. Moe, larry and curly (the 3 stooges, you may have heard of em), are junk accounts. Every other account is live. Started by someone else in the clan to keep busy in between big account upgrades. And thanks for reminding me, I went to check the war we just won, and I didnt put any of them in. You can swing by if you'd like to verify. You seem to be holding onto that for the sake of this discussion, to cover up the fact that you're breeding a clan of .5's. It's because of people like YOU, that those 3 accounts were made. And Im trying to believe all the nonsense of the mm being fixed by phasing them out, but I just dont see the evidence. And when they do fix (hopefully), then you'll watch all your easy 3 stars turn into 2 stars, and Ill be here to watch you guys cry on these forums. Until then, enjoy your clean fests. Whatever it takes to make you feel better about playing. That style of play to me however, is boring and would make me stop playing. I equivalate it to playing nerf basketball against a 6 yr old. Or a sixth grader going back to 3rd grade. Just wouldnt stimulate my mind whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by topbtm

Why do you assume your clan is automatically at disadvantaged when facing enginneered clans? Are you using the mirror bases comparison to assess match ups? My clan sometimes face them, but it gets quite boring because since the October update, engineered clans are in so much at a disadvantage.

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Lol, that statement would have been much more effective if you hadn't revealed elsewhere which your clan was

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Originally Posted by daddylindo

And Im trying to believe all the nonsense of the mm being fixed by phasing them out, but I just dont see the evidence.

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It was improved, especially regarding x.5s - since October the offence seems to be counted properly and x.5s generally match to the full TH. What wasn't fixed at all - and I think was maybe made worse in October - is the issue of zero defence bases skewing the average and leading to an advantage elsewhere. That zero defence could be defenceless TH11s or TH3s; doesn't matter much now. x.5s don't generally help; defenceless still do.

The thing is, by including even one of the TH3s, according to the purists who preach how engineers can be avoided, you are also engineering and can expect to be put in with the engineering clans. I'm not saying I agree with that, but it's the reaction you're likely to get from some people here - if you try to engineer don't complain if you are out-engineered.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

It was improved, especially regarding x.5s - since October the offence seems to be counted properly and x.5s generally match to the full TH. What wasn't fixed at all - and I think was maybe made worse in October - is the issue of zero defence bases skewing the average and leading to an advantage elsewhere. That zero defence could be defenceless TH11s or TH3s; doesn't matter much now. x.5s don't generally help; defenceless still do.

The thing is, by including even one of the TH3s, according to the purists who preach how engineers can be avoided, you are also engineering and can expect to be put in with the engineering clans. I'm not saying I agree with that, but it's the reaction you're likely to get from some people here - if you try to engineer don't complain if you are out-engineered.

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I really have been avoiding putting them in, honestly. Other than that everyone is properly built. I just wrote on another thread that because th11 is relatively new still, maybe not everyone has a grip on the mm. Th11 carries alot of weight, and the more weight to consider, the more wiggle room. So they perhaps made corrections, but being that th11 is only a year old, they may have created some difficulty along the way. Because based on our experience, we really feel wars have gotten worse. We may be a victim just because of where we're at in terms of town halls, but wars were definitely more intense before for our clan.

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Originally Posted by topbtm

Why do you assume your clan is automatically at disadvantaged when facing enginneered clans? Are you using the mirror bases comparison to assess match ups? My clan sometimes face them, but it gets quite boring because since the October update, engineered clans are in so much at a disadvantage.

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This is simply too adorable for words.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

Lol, that statement would have been much more effective if you hadn't revealed elsewhere which your clan was

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Lol, your statement would have been much more effective if you could detect sarcasm sometimes...

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Originally Posted by daddylindo

You want facts? I'll give you facts. Moe, larry and curly (the 3 stooges, you may have heard of em), are junk accounts. Every other account is live. Started by someone else in the clan to keep busy in between big account upgrades. And thanks for reminding me, I went to check the war we just won, and I didnt put any of them in. You can swing by if you'd like to verify. You seem to be holding onto that for the sake of this discussion, to cover up the fact that you're breeding a clan of .5's. It's because of people like YOU, that those 3 accounts were made. And Im trying to believe all the nonsense of the mm being fixed by phasing them out, but I just dont see the evidence. And when they do fix (hopefully), then you'll watch all your easy 3 stars turn into 2 stars, and Ill be here to watch you guys cry on these forums. Until then, enjoy your clean fests. Whatever it takes to make you feel better about playing. That style of play to me however, is boring and would make me stop playing. I equivalate it to playing nerf basketball against a 6 yr old. Or a sixth grader going back to 3rd grade. Just wouldnt stimulate my mind whatsoever.

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oh dear child... cnaf's clan is far from engineered. Please get your facts straight. You let your bias cloud almost everything you say.

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Originally Posted by P4K

The war matching nowdays is more than disgusting!!! Second war we gonna loose and I knew that before we even started!!! We don't have any rushed TH's. I'm the leader with a strong almost maxed TH10 and the other three under me are 2/3 finished TH9's. Guess what was the enemy clan? As strong TH10 as me thats fine so far, then 3 more TH9 who was maxed and been on my level!!! In return we had 1-2 town hall advantage on the bottom where it is absolutely insignificant. This is not fair at all!!! I'm a TH10 and I can normally easily get 2 stars on TH10s but this time I had only 1 star on a TH9 who was on the same level as me and that was only the third on the grid...
We used to be a winning team and nowdays because of the matching it is almost impossible. The team has not changed much and as I said no rushed THs. I think something needs to be done with the balancing, TH5s and TH6s should not be able to compensate maxed town halls on the front!
It is just makes good clans seem like they dont know anything about the game. Even do I know what is gonna happen because of the level differences.

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Sounds like you ran into a serious war clan if their th9 were so good that your max 10 could only get 1* on them. Based upon what you've written, I'd say that it's not the matchmaker that needs an upgrade but rather your skill. Copy your opponents bases. Watch replays of their war attacks. We've all been where you are, but it takes a tough dose of realism to accept when somebody is just better than you.

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Originally Posted by sunshineonearth

Dear SC, I want to complaining about your war system matchmaking, because our last war is really disappointing.. I am max th8 with max troops upgrading to th9, and the system match me with th11 with max miner which only have 2 xbow, 1 Canon..And that person eventually 3stars our no1 at war.. I play COC for fun, and I feel being cheated in this war. I hope in the future you can fixed the system because I think our clan is a good clan (lv10) and we only look for fair game to play, thank you SC :)

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https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...mpetitive-wars

Good thread for you to read. If your max is a th8 and your opponent has an 11, then there are a bunch of reasons that you got that match.

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Originally Posted by topbtm

Why do you assume your clan is automatically at disadvantaged when facing enginneered clans? Are you using the mirror bases comparison to assess match ups? My clan sometimes face them, but it gets quite boring because since the October update, engineered clans are in so much at a disadvantage.

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How can you pump up 6m and united ph with one breath then write stuff like this with the next? Not sure if that's sarcasm or just flat out trolling.

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Originally Posted by peaceterrorist

The clan I'm in is not engineered (no .5 bases, no rushed ones either), yet we see engineers in the war all the time. SC's reluctance to put weight on the lab only tells me one thing that they're unwilling to nerf lopsided bases altogether in the war algorithm as they see them good for their economy.

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Originally Posted by cnaf

SC did tweak the MM to place more importance on the offensive strength of bases in war. Hero levels, spells, camp sizes, troop levels- are all taken into account when coming up with the overall weight a clan takes to war.

It's not a question of being good for the economy. One could argue more gems are spent by maxers that quickly arrived endgame, than a defenseless that only spends gems on one side of the field.

You should take a closer look at the makeup you are taking into wars, if you feel you are always pairing with engineered clans. Also, keep in mind its an overall weight matchup- so unless that defenseless base has weak offense relative to his town hall level- you are going to see an advantage for your side somewhere else in the matchup.

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Good stuff cnaf.

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Originally Posted by cnaf

Why is it engineered clans seem to be the ones that complain the loudest...about other engineering?

I looked over your clan... found it funny that you have a bunch of non active TH3s sitting at the bottom of the clan. Slow golf clap.

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Originally Posted by daddylindo

I dont put all 3 of em in. Only use 1 now. And i saw your recruitment post the other night. Any respect I had for your posts before, is all gone lol

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Originally Posted by cnaf

All three? I counted 5. And that's not including your inactive TH6 as well. At least get the facts straight.

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He posted about his clan roster the other day cnaf, he's not exactly hiding it.

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Originally Posted by daddylindo

You want facts? I'll give you facts. Moe, larry and curly (the 3 stooges, you may have heard of em), are junk accounts. Every other account is live. Started by someone else in the clan to keep busy in between big account upgrades. And thanks for reminding me, I went to check the war we just won, and I didnt put any of them in. You can swing by if you'd like to verify. You seem to be holding onto that for the sake of this discussion, to cover up the fact that you're breeding a clan of .5's. It's because of people like YOU, that those 3 accounts were made. And Im trying to believe all the nonsense of the mm being fixed by phasing them out, but I just dont see the evidence. And when they do fix (hopefully), then you'll watch all your easy 3 stars turn into 2 stars, and Ill be here to watch you guys cry on these forums. Until then, enjoy your clean fests. Whatever it takes to make you feel better about playing. That style of play to me however, is boring and would make me stop playing. I equivalate it to playing nerf basketball against a 6 yr old. Or a sixth grader going back to 3rd grade. Just wouldnt stimulate my mind whatsoever.

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And you need to get off your high horse, too. This is not a war, there are no "innocent" or "guilty" people here. If you're breeding a bunch of .5's, or you're dumping 1-4 th3's at the bottom of your roster for every war, then your war roster is mildly engineered. It's not extreme, and it's not going to the decisive factor every time, but it will give you a small to medium advantage in most of your wars.

I cannot say that I don't get into dumb arguments with people some times, but you 2 do not seem so different to me if you can just step back from the argument for a bit and look at it from the other's point of view.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

The thing is, by including even one of the TH3s, according to the purists who preach how engineers can be avoided, you are also engineering and can expect to be put in with the engineering clans. I'm not saying I agree with that, but it's the reaction you're likely to get from some people here - if you try to engineer don't complain if you are out-engineered.

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Hey! :)

Dumping lowbie th's at the bottom of your war roster is almost always engineering, as the only plausible reason for doing so in a high level clan is to try for an easier matchup. However, it's really low effort, and it's not as much of an advantage as a defenseless base with good offense and heroes obviously, so most people (myself included) view it as a pretty mild transgression. However, like all things, you can take it too far. Daddylindo with 1-4 lowbies on his war roster is mildly engineering but will probably not see huge mismatches from it; a really highly engineered roster with 45% th3's will get a crapload of laughers but will now sometimes get a huge mismatch in opponent's favor, too.

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Originally Posted by daddylindo

I really have been avoiding putting them in, honestly. Other than that everyone is properly built. I just wrote on another thread that because th11 is relatively new still, maybe not everyone has a grip on the mm. Th11 carries alot of weight, and the more weight to consider, the more wiggle room. So they perhaps made corrections, but being that th11 is only a year old, they may have created some difficulty along the way. Because based on our experience, we really feel wars have gotten worse. We may be a victim just because of where we're at in terms of town halls, but wars were definitely more intense before for our clan.

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I find that we are far more likely to get even and fair matchups with a decent number of each th, especially on the very top. If you only have 1 or 2 of your top th, whether it's th11 or 9 or whatever, then you run the risk of getting some weird matchups. As we only have 2 th11, and neither has maxed heroes (even before latest patch), we often run with just 1 th11 in wars...and that sucks. 1 th11 vs 2 or even 3 on opponent side is common for us. But for the past couple of weeks they've both been upgrading heroes like mad and sitting out wars, and BAM a whole bunch of borderline-eerily competitive matches. We have a couple of other 10's that are a month or 2 out from going up, will be interesting to see how our matchmaking goes with 3-5 th11 in every war down the road.

https://forum-content.supercell.com/...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by topbtm https://forum-content.supercell.com/...post-right.png
Why do you assume your clan is automatically at disadvantaged when facing enginneered clans? Are you using the mirror bases comparison to assess match ups? My clan sometimes face them, but it gets quite boring because since the October update, engineered clans are in so much at a disadvantage.

How can you pump up 6m and united ph with one breath then write stuff like this with the next? Not sure if that's sarcasm or just flat out trolling.[/QUOTE]

Not sarcasm, nor trolling - and I fail to see the inconsistency of my above statement with the fact I congratulated UPH, an engineeered clan, for achievement 200 straight wins.