How to get Fair and Competitive Wars, and Avoid Engineered Clans

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Originally Posted by Skrags

I think it's worth while just taking a step back and evaluating the context of this thread...
Hopefully, somewhere , somehow, it may have helped some clans! It's not a magic wand however! ...
p.s. I'd also add to your list key TH11 Offence troops!:thumbsup:

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I understand that the intent of the thread is in the best interests of the community. I have no doubt that many of the clans struggling after the October update have gain some useful information here. In context, I'm frustrated with COC on multiple levels and the ongoing issues with how MM handles TH11 perplexes me... that particular fix seems simple: MM adds a parameter which counts GW and Eagle structures adding to MM criteria. There needs to be some intelligent design where this parameter has higher value to MM as there are few TH11s in the lineup. This code is very basic and should not meaningfully interact with other aspects of MM, aside from slight increase in single search time this is a strict upgrade to the current system... BUT we have to cancel search and spin again after 30 minutes a few times a week to avoid more matchups issues than we experience currently so slight increase in search time is not a real concern for most clans doing this. Eliminating spin baby-sitting for clans that care is value adding imo.

As far as TH11 troops I don't feel that they are relevant for two reasons, and I'm probably in the minority which is fine. Here is why:

1. TH10 play is VERY difficult and a TH11 with max troops and no warden will still have to be of well above average skill level to clear max anti-3 10s at a decent clip. For comparison, CWL expects 80% hit-rate with spam style dips: power of the Warden alone! Eagle and other TH11 defensive structures are self-explanatory: hit-rate falls from 80+% vs max 10s to probably 30% vs a full TH11 w/ Lv1 EA for some of the best attackers (again, this assumes good anti-3 base design and % may be slightly higher for uncommon commitment to planning and good scouting prior to the attack).

2. Handling TH11 troops outside of offensive weight parameter is complicated.

At some point if I have time, I will throw together a statistical outline of the issue additional full TH11s bring to any given war using data from my attacks (2 max 11s hitting max 10s and 11s every war). I would use CWL but with roster composition, we won't see enough true 11v11 play to provide meaningful data since 11s are designed to be anti-2 vs TH10s and 11v11 hits are rare.

Just wanted to thank you for the post again. It's really helped. Last war we were the engineered clan. Boy, was I shocked. LOL Only one TH9 on our side that was slightly engineered. But, still it was engineered. Our matches have been better, especially when I don't take so many of our max Th8s. Have learned, if you're going to permabase don't max it. :P

I don't think that roster engineering should be the answer to the partly broken match making algorithm. Supercell needs to fix it. Most of the casual and random clans might never have heard about war weight or engineering. They just want to play a game and war from time to time. None of the things mentioned in the ClashTutor video will avoid being matched with an engineered clan at the moment. She even wrote this herself into the comments.

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Originally Posted by higgsbosons

Supercell needs to fix it.

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Supercell isn't picking up the phone. This is a user forum, and this thread is about users sharing good though imperfect ideas. If you look at the thread above & below this one at any given time, its probably a complaint at/ plea to SC to fix something, probably engineering, and it will have precisely zero effect.

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Originally Posted by higgsbosons

I don't think that roster engineering should be the answer to the partly broken match making algorithm. Supercell needs to fix it. Most of the casual and random clans might never have heard about war weight or engineering. They just want to play a game and war from time to time. None of the things mentioned in the ClashTutor video will avoid being matched with an engineered clan at the moment. She even wrote this herself into the comments.

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Exactly right, well said.

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

Supercell isn't picking up the phone. This is a user forum, and this thread is about users sharing good though imperfect ideas. If you look at the thread above & below this one at any given time, its probably a complaint at/ plea to SC to fix something, probably engineering, and it will have precisely zero effect.

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I know. It's just my opinion. But roster engineering seems to be some kind of a workaround for the current weakness of the match making algorithm to avoid unwanted opponents. Which might work for some clans who are able to start a clan war search with a narrow townhall spread with balanced bases only. For other clans the matchmaking algorithm remains partly broken and they either adapt with running their own engineered accounts or they might quit warring. Improving the matchmaking algorithm might remove the cause of some inbalanced clan wars, while roster engineering seems to be more fighting the symptoms.

I know this is a very old topic in the forums. Supercell has recently changed something for the x.5 crowed though, so i'm slightly optimistic that we will see smaller changes somewhen sooner than later. After the first season of the CWL, one of their community managers joined the Dark Looters for a 50 versus 50 celebration war. The opponent was an engineered clan. Maybe this will accelerate a few things and shift some priorities . ;-)

I know you know that Supercell does follow the ideas in the forum. I don't think they read this deeply but they do read every thread. Ot at least they claim too. :) Do they read the 37th page? I doubt it. :)

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

Supercell isn't picking up the phone. This is a user forum, and this thread is about users sharing good though imperfect ideas. If you look at the thread above & below this one at any given time, its probably a complaint at/ plea to SC to fix something, probably engineering, and it will have precisely zero effect.

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I think you are correct about the casual clans but the clashtutor video while far from perfect is not wrong. It may be a bit over optimistic but the things in it will help.

This tread is a better guide though. Until we reached a war win streak of 6 our clan completely avoided engineers. We made it to ten. The engineers got very bad. So bad, I started taking one myself. We are back to zero now, after a tie. But, it's the recent war performance that is the key and not the last war. Once you do well, you will see engineers. Both this thread and ClashTutor said you will sometimes get unfair wars and it is mostly caused by recent war performance.

I hate that and wish they would fix it but the vid and this thread both say that.

If you are losing and still seeing engineered, you need to make adjustments. You can make it better.

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Originally Posted by higgsbosons

I don't think that roster engineering should be the answer to the partly broken match making algorithm. Supercell needs to fix it. Most of the casual and random clans might never have heard about war weight or engineering. They just want to play a game and war from time to time. None of the things mentioned in the ClashTutor video will avoid being matched with an engineered clan at the moment. She even wrote this herself into the comments.

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Originally Posted by StormHeart

I know you know that Supercell does follow the ideas in the forum. I don't think they read this deeply but they do read every thread. Ot at least they claim too. :) Do they read the 37th page? I doubt it. :)

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I've seen them say they read everything posted in the suggestions forum, but never that they read anywhere else. The average poster's idea that they're arguing in front of SC leads to everything getting unnecessarily heated - if you're arguing a case before SC, you need to win to get your idea implemented, everyone that disagrees is an enemy.

Things tend to get less toxic when people realize how low the stakes are. Things tend to get more productive when people realize its just players talking to eachother - we can help with strategy, maybe help with an understanding of the matchmaker. We can't implement anyone's idea however no matter how wonderful.

I saw a post that said they read every thread on the forum. Doesn't make it true but hopefully they do. I figure they have someone summarize the idea of post and forward them up the chain. No idea how much detail they include. Could be very little.

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

I've seen them say they read everything posted in the suggestions forum, but never that they read anywhere else. The average poster's idea that they're arguing in front of SC leads to everything getting unnecessarily heated - if you're arguing a case before SC, you need to win to get your idea implemented, everyone that disagrees is an enemy.

Things tend to get less toxic when people realize how low the stakes are. Things tend to get more productive when people realize its just players talking to eachother - we can help with strategy, maybe help with an understanding of the matchmaker. We can't implement anyone's idea however no matter how wonderful.

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