How to get Fair and Competitive Wars, and Avoid Engineered Clans

I will still say this and I will say over and over again. If my clan had 10 th9's and everyone had 15/15 heroes, I would rather play a clan that has 10 th9's with 20/20+ heroes, than play a clan with 1 or 2 rushed or engineered 9.5's, 5 th9's and 2 or 3 junk th8's or lower. I know that my th9's with good base design and built up defenses can defend against 220 troops and 4 spells, period. And conversely, we can 3 star any th9. But the engineered th9 with 5 giant bombs (level 4), 5 black balloons (level 3), extra skelly trap extra archer tower, xbow and cannon and strategically upgraded teslas, is not gonna be 3 starred by a th9, 90% of the time, maybe 95%. But those 9.5's with 5 spells and 240 spots are gonna 3 star th9's 99% of the time. So THAT is the problem I have with engineering.

You mean go to 8 and working on offense? I am trying to avoid engineers. I have a TH10 (9.5), a nearly max 9, a nearly max 8 and four TH7s. I also have three more baby bases but they are all going to 7 now.

Why? I have enough stress during war. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ryryshouse

Why would you permabase with a TH7 or TH8 , instead of just doing offense? there is no "permabase" penalty. you have a bunch of TH9 lifers and you have a bunch of dip specialists who sucked at TH9 so they went to TH10 but didnt do defensive so they could continue hitting 9s. neither is right or wrong.

---

No, I don't expect the same exact match. That's silly. I didn't say anything close to that.

I also said that the Th7s are getting matched against TH8s and fully explained why it was a problem in that one war. They are often matched vs some 8s but there is a new trend developing that you don't seem to be aware of. It will grow if you have 7s in war and you will see it.

8s matching to 7s is getting to be the normal for us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit

Since mm can't match exactly perfect a permamax base might trigger a th above that th level. People wanting the same # of th levels have no where to go but the same or down. A th above from experience can be at any degree on that th. Often times rushed to the defense heavy side. So it will be hard to 3*. However since an increase in army camp size and extra spell is usually all that is needed to crush the th below it doesn't take much added offense.
My advice on permamax is to have on or 2 war armies and a several defenses below max preferred splash. That should keep you balanced enough if someone want's to stay at that th level.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ryryshouse

bro, 100 people with 500 wars of data is considerable less then 1000s and 1000s. I will let you work out the magnitude on that. and it is less then 100 people with 500 wars of data. I see more like 20 people with 100s of wars, and the range of roster is so large, versus the pool of clans actively spinning... its a drop in the ocean.

and someone like cnaf, who provides decent insight, runs a particular style of roster. so unless you are running that roster, the mileage will likely vary.

i appreciate the attempt to reverse engineer the mm, that is why I am here. But its clear to me how it functions..esp with regard to our typical roster composition.

---

What, each person has only 5 wars worth of data? I have almost 500 wars all by myself. Cnaf probably more than that. But ok, keep thinking that your one clan is more representative of the entire game than hundreds of others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MossackFonseca

What, each person has only 5 wars worth of data? I have almost 500 wars all by myself. Cnaf probably more than that. But ok, keep thinking that your one clan is more representative of the entire game than hundreds of others.

---

data prior to changes becomes invalid. a clan can have about 100 wars since last "update" ? probably less? Not sure how many days it has been

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StormHeart

You mean go to 8 and working on offense? I am trying to avoid engineers. I have a TH10 (9.5), a nearly max 9, a nearly max 8 and four TH7s. I also have three more baby bases but they are all going to 7 now.

Why? I have enough stress during war. :P

---

Well, not sure what your roster is... but there isnt an impact demonstrated by increasing the offense of the bottom 5 bases on the roster. assuming you are running 25/30 ish wars . If these are middle of the roster probably would not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StormHeart

I have found through trail and error that most of you are saying is dead on. However, that word "Guarantee" need to go away. That just not possible. You'll get some engineers no matter what you do. You kind of covered yourself though with the recent war perfomance thing.

---

I tried to change the title but was unable to do so after thread was made. You're right, it's not a guarantee, but rather "very highly likely".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StormHeart

That one has been bugging me.

Perhaps because I have several TH7s that I do not intend to take to 8. BUT, they have recently been getting matched against TH8s. Usually we can take out those 8s and often go one or two up on the map.

I cannot see any reason why a permabase should have a penalty. I can understand why Supercell doesn't like it. Those bases don't raid, don't buy gems. But that's not reason to go playing with the war matching.

Am I missing something? I don't see why it should. It's been bugging me for the last 24 hours since I saw this message.

Now I do understand that our several maxed 8s are more likely to draw a low TH9 which is bad for us. We have a few of those too. They are not my bases but are mostly from one person. She is about to upgrade one to 9. When I take that base it is when we tend to get that extra nine. But I think that could happen anyway. I do think it gets more likely with several max 8s so that's why I try to leave one out. This I can understand. But some penalty for just not upgrading would be grossly wrong.

Our last two wars saw our TH7s matched to TH8s except for one position. One of the 8s was smart. Just enough defense to make a ground attack a poor choice for a 7 but max AD, level 9 archer towers and higher level wiz towers. Our 7s were unable to three star any of them. In that war we had three max 7s. I realize that matching down low carries less significance but if this happens often and to clans that don't have three or four perma 7s. Then Th7 dragon attacks will become obsolete.

I'm tempted to take those 7s to 8 and do the exact same thing. Leave them as they are on walls, upgrade mortars to 5 and max the AD and wiz towers and maybe the air sweeper because it is generally believed that AD and AS have low war weight.

However, I don't think I will do that. It think supercell will fix it and I like attacking and over achieving with my 7s. If it continues though, I'll have no choice.

Do you have any insights? Is my thinking off here?

---

You're not getting punished for permabasing, it's rather that it's just very hard for the mm to differentiate between a completely max th7 and an early th8. Same for max th8 vs early th9. If those are at the middle or bottom of your roster then it's a mild disadvantage at worst, but if they're at the middle or especially the top then it can cause you to lose the war.

For us it is 15 mostly now. When I had to leave my baby bases out I had to lower the number of people. I had a couple of three's that I use to bring just so we could get more people in.

Those little bases were getting us one cannon TH11s.

We are a level 7 clan. Just over a year old. I'm in asia but speak English so growth is a little slow. Plus everyone wants to be in a level 10 clan. :) Man was it rough before we made level 5.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ryryshouse

Well, not sure what your roster is... but there isnt an impact demonstrated by increasing the offense of the bottom 5 bases on the roster. assuming you are running 25/30 ish wars . If these are middle of the roster probably would not.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StormHeart

Those little bases were getting us one cannon TH11s.

---

No they werent. If you want to avoid this, you need to raise your entire aggregate roster weight considerably. We just ran a war with our lowest being 63... other team had more EAs and still brought 3 sub 50 weight TH10/11 to the war. Otherwise there is always a roster combination that can kick in a minimax and match what you are running. Spin the wheel....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daddylindo

I will still say this and I will say over and over again. If my clan had 10 th9's and everyone had 15/15 heroes, I would rather play a clan that has 10 th9's with 20/20+ heroes, than play a clan with 1 or 2 rushed or engineered 9.5's, 5 th9's and 2 or 3 junk th8's or lower. I know that my th9's with good base design and built up defenses can defend against 220 troops and 4 spells, period. And conversely, we can 3 star any th9. But the engineered th9 with 5 giant bombs (level 4), 5 black balloons (level 3), extra skelly trap extra archer tower, xbow and cannon and strategically upgraded teslas, is not gonna be 3 starred by a th9, 90% of the time, maybe 95%. But those 9.5's with 5 spells and 240 spots are gonna 3 star th9's 99% of the time. So THAT is the problem I have with engineering.

---

You are assuming that they will both be equally skilled. As sod and ryryshouse have pointed out, and I've seen as well, this is usually not the case. The clan full of permabased th9's might actually be able to match you on skill, but the clan with people who weren't good enough to hit their th9 mirror so rushed to 9.5 aren't usually on that same level. Of course, when you get the big win streaks rolling, then perhaps you do get elite 9.5's matching up with your 9's... that's not necessarily a failure of the mm, but rather should be an enticement to people to continue progressing their bases.