How to get Fair and Competitive Wars, and Avoid Engineered Clans

Heroes vs Infernos? This has been a debate for a long time. I do like my maxed heroes at both the th10 and th11 and in major war clans I think they would get those extra few pct points needed for a win. However for the average clasher I would go with IT. I've seen those things mess up so many attacks in war from people with little experience facing them. Many time with the IT close to the TH clans get stopped for only a 1* which makes the deference between winning an losing. At least in the wars my clan does which is a mixed range. Maybe in only th9+ it makes a difference but I have little experience in that.

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Originally Posted by nerfedname

In your ONE war example it sounds like you matched a THx.5 clan who hasn't figured out that THx.5s got severely nerfed in October, so they're running TH9.5's with no infernos but high heroes (337 across 5 accounts) and getting match to FULL TH10s with infernos and only moderate heroes. In this ONE example, yes, it was the presence of inferno towers that won/lost the war and not hero levels, but if, as you said, you even everything out (including skill) I'll take the side with higher hero levels every day of the week and twice on sundays. What the clan you preyed upon doesn't realize is they could plant their infernos and would likely still pull similar matchups. If the inferno gap were closed, and again assuming equal skill, the hero levels would be likely to be the deciding factor.

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I think your assessment is very likely.

We recently matched a very 9.5 heavy clan (strict, not even upgraded teslas). Their 1 and 2 were mid level TH10s that we managed to 3*, but the rest of the bases were relatively easy to clear.

We got our first ever perfect war against them. I noticed a couple of their members building some new TH10 defenses right after the war ended so I think they're in the process of adapting :)

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Originally Posted by MrJackrabbit

Heroes vs Infernos? This has been a debate for a long time. I do like my maxed heroes at both the th10 and th11 and in major war clans I think they would get those extra few pct points needed for a win. However for the average clasher I would go with IT. I've seen those things mess up so many attacks in war from people with little experience facing them. Many time with the IT close to the TH clans get stopped for only a 1* which makes the deference between winning an losing. At least in the wars my clan does which is a mixed range. Maybe in only th9+ it makes a difference but I have little experience in that.

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I agree.

I think the inferno side has the advantage on paper but the hero sides ends up winning because they have more experience. This is why SinODusk's method of war engineering is working. He's taking the inferno side but also has the experience advantage.



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I am going to take middle ground here and say that at th9 and below hero lvl's are a luxury and not ultra important. As long as you are at least 5/5 you can get by well enough. Only for the reason that troop strength at that level is enough to get the job done. The only thing I use my heroes (now 10/11) for vs th9's is kill squads. BK to take out enemy AQ and AQ to deal with CC plus a few extras.

There are viable attack styles at th9 that put huge emphasis on a hero (like the AQ). Doing any kind of a walk. If you got em use em. If not, well you still have good options.

Now the TH10+ arena, troop strength alone is not enough. Heroes become a solid portion of the raid and bring huge utility to your attack. Ideally you use the heroes to cripple core strength of the base enough so that your main army has a better chance at success. You can get lucky with troop spamming on a poorly designed base, but in general high heroes are needed to increase the success rate of your attack.

Ironically, over the last two wars, I tripled 2 mid level th10's without my AQ/BK heroes at all lol. One of them I only used 180 troop space lol. Will chalk it up to poor base design.

OMG!!

HAVE ANY OF YOU READ WHAT I WROTE???!!!!

The things you all say are just proving my point! Too many confounding factors make it seem like hero levels are everything, when in fact if you do it right, they are non-factors at all. No point posting anything if nobody bothers to read and comprehend

There may seem to be a schism for me saying "heroes are not important" and "rush to TH9 ASAP to start on AQ". But that point was relevant in the old days, now not so much. But I still keep using that point because it is one of the only things that can drill the point through an inflexible cranium some people possess

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Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

OMG!!

HAVE ANY OF YOU READ WHAT I WROTE???!!!!

The things you all say are just proving my point! Too many confounding factors make it seem like hero levels are everything, when in fact if you do it right, they are non-factors at all. No point posting anything if nobody bothers to read and comprehend

There may seem to be a schism for me saying "heroes are not important" and "rush to TH9 ASAP to start on AQ". But that point was relevant in the old days, now not so much. But I still keep using that point because it is one of the only things that can drill the point through an inflexible cranium some people possess

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Sorry but wish I unread some of things u wrote lol. U have made some points where it makes sense n seems valid but than again u also made points that were left field material n head scratching. Either way y get so mad over it? Lol continue to voice your opinions n expect some disagreements along the way. Its no biggie unless u make it to b that way. Perhaps let go of ur anger over things that happened so long ago. As u voice ur opinion others have to n will continue to do so. How u get treated when voicing ur opinion is usually dependent on how u act. U need to munch on that for a bit. Regardless gl to u n breath n let insignificant moot things like forum not get to u so much. Gl!

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Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

OMG!!
Too many confounding factors make it seem like hero levels are everything, when in fact if you do it right, they are non-factors at all.

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Easy there Sin, I don't think anyone's saying 'hero levels are everything'. I just think hero levels are worth their weight. You saying they're "non-factors" is too strong a claim.
Last night I lalooned defense max th9 (with my own baby th9, heroes in the low teens) so I know what you're talking about. But for that account, I wish I'd save weight elsewhere and brought heroes higher. Th9 or really weak th10 you can get away with baby heroes but they sure provide a big margin for error in your attack if they're big heroes.
And I don't think the weight is that much. I suspect 'heroes vs infernos' is an illusion, that any defense max th will sometimes face a higher match regardless of heroes.

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Originally Posted by TankSinatra

Easy there Sin, I don't think anyone's saying 'hero levels are everything'. I just think hero levels are worth their weight. You saying they're "non-factors" is too strong a claim.
Last night I lalooned defense max th9 (with my own baby th9, heroes in the low teens) so I know what you're talking about. But for that account, I wish I'd save weight elsewhere and brought heroes higher. Th9 or really weak th10 you can get away with baby heroes but they sure provide a big margin for error in your attack if they're big heroes.
And I don't think the weight is that much. I suspect 'heroes vs infernos' is an illusion, that any defense max th will sometimes face a higher match regardless of heroes.

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Defo not an illusion. Look closely again if u have manipulated bases

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Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

OMG!!

HAVE ANY OF YOU READ WHAT I WROTE???!!!!

The things you all say are just proving my point! Too many confounding factors make it seem like hero levels are everything, when in fact if you do it right, they are non-factors at all. No point posting anything if nobody bothers to read and comprehend

There may seem to be a schism for me saying "heroes are not important" and "rush to TH9 ASAP to start on AQ". But that point was relevant in the old days, now not so much. But I still keep using that point because it is one of the only things that can drill the point through an inflexible cranium some people possess

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Four consecutive posters (Skrags, myself, mightmare77, and Tank) came on here soon after your post and said, basically, in their experience they disagreed with you or thought you were overstating the case...

and THIS is the response you come back with!?

Paraphrasing, with some of the good parts:

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WTH, WHY CAN'T YOU PEOPLE READ!? My opinion on this matter is the correct one if you do it right and MY way. Nobody here reads or comprehends anything, I have to dumb it down for you guys in order to drill the point into your inflexible craniums!!

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This is a matter of opinion and experience dude. Different clans, with different makeups, game philosophies, skill levels, etc., will experience the "hero vs. inferno" effect differently. And YOUR way, and YOUR philosophy, and YOUR experience is not the only one out there and the "correct way to play or experience the game."

People constantly tell tell you this every time you spout off about how stupid we all are for not playing as you do, but the message never seems to take...

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Originally Posted by kimchilove

Defo not an illusion. Look closely again if u have manipulated bases

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The "infernos vs heroes" effect generally refers to maxxers (say, th9 30/30 heroes) matching to weak/mid th10s (infernos but low heroes). No manipulation involved.
If I'm wrong about the definition and its about 9.5s matching 10s, then its definitely an illusion that the heroes are the issue.