Unfair Clan Wars: we facing players having rushed defences but very high level armies

I don't know how exactly the strength of a player is determined when he participates in a clan war, but what I can see is that it depends solely on his defensive buildings and not on his army. People have a great way of making use of this. We (a clan with th9 and below players) are sometimes facing clans with th10s and th11s opposite to our th6 and th7 players!!! Reason : because their defences are underdeveloped, but come on, they have armies meant for th10/11 and can easily blow away lower ones. So they end up three staring our top 10 bases (in 25 member war) with some of their bottom 10 bases, so frustrating.
And I am quite certain more than half of the players must have faced this (or are doing this). So please improve clan war match making, with this thought in mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheDevilIncarnate000009

I don't know how exactly the strength of a player is determined when he participates in a clan war, but what I can see is that it depends solely on his defensive buildings and not on his army. People have a great way of making use of this. We (a clan with th9 and below players) are sometimes facing clans with th10s and th11s opposite to our th6 and th7 players!!! Reason : because their defences are underdeveloped, but come on, they have armies meant for th10/11 and can easily blow away lower ones. So they end up three staring our top 10 bases (in 25 member war) with some of their bottom 10 bases, so frustrating.
And I am quite certain more than half of the players must have faced this (or are doing this). So please improve clan war match making, with this thought in mind.

---

Fresh pawn: everything in your post is wrong, wrong and wrong. Spend more time reading on this forum, especially from people who think that the match making is fair, instead of those complaining about match ups, like in your case.

Three things to remember:
-townhall level is irrelevant in the mm
-base position on the war map is irrelevant in the mm
-skill is the n1 determinant of a war outcome, not mm manipulation
Your journey to understanding the mm starts with that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by topbtm

Fresh pawn: everything in your post is wrong, wrong and wrong. Spend more time reading on this forum, especially from people who think that the match making is fair, instead of those complaining about match ups, like in your case.

Three things to remember:
-townhall level is irrelevant in the mm
-base position on the war map is irrelevant in the mm
-skill is the n1 determinant of a war outcome, not mm manipulation
Your journey to understanding the mm starts with that.

---

Ok I'll tell u this way - our clan has th9 players (no th10 n 11) and still, the guys who attacked our top bases had lvl6 drags and 13 spell capacity (perhaps 11 not sure of this) and grand warden too.
So fair right!!! Anything to say?

I actually want to say that coc check only defensive strengths of players while matchmaking and ignores the fact that they may have very strong armies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheDevilIncarnate000009

Ok I'll tell u this way - our clan has th9 players (no th10 n 11) and still, the guys who attacked our top bases had lvl6 drags and 13 spell capacity (perhaps 11 not sure of this) and grand warden too.
So fair right!!! Anything to say?

---

Since when it is one base vs one base? It is clan vs clan. The example you show does not show an indication of a mismatch, unless you provide more details for the rest of both clans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by topbtm

Since when it is one base vs one base? It is clan vs clan. The example you show does not show an indication of a mismatch, unless you provide more details for the rest of both clans.

---

Ok I tell u complete details.
It was a 25 member war. We had strong th9s in upper 8 positions and so had the enemy. But then we had th6 7 and 8s in lower positions. The opponent on the other hand had th10 and 11s in the lower positions. Eventually, these guys cleared our best bases with their th11 armies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheDevilIncarnate000009

So please improve clan war match making, with this thought in mind.

---

This is quite common, people posting to the player's forum as if they were communicating, or making demands of the developers. But there is no developer participation in the forums, they might skim a bit but we're mostly players talking among ourselves here.

As such, look here for good suggestions to avoid engineered clans -

https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...gineered-clans

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheDevilIncarnate000009

I actually want to say that coc check only defensive strengths of players while matchmaking and ignores the fact that they may have very strong armies.

---

This isn't the case. It may feel to you that it is- when you pair up against a clan with a defenseless base. But it's not how the algorithm works.

As mentioned, it's going to look at the entire group of mates in the war, an overall weighting. Heroes count. Troop levels count. Camp sizes count. And yes, defenses count too.

You did not provide complete details. That would require everything I just mentioned, and more. If one clan is stronger overall from a defensive perspective- you can bet the other side has an offensive advantage. And again- there is no in-lane matching, so mirrors are not to be viewed as any sort of equal. If a max offense TH11 happens to have the same war map number as the opposing TH6- well then the weight difference the TH11 enjoys (and it is noted) will be made up elsewhere on the other side.

Whether that helps your clan or not- is an entirely different story. That is where clan makeup and specific progression comes into play. And this is far more important when it comes to clan wars... than deciding which defense you are going to upgrade next.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cnaf

This isn't the case. It may feel to you that it is- when you pair up against a clan with a defenseless base. But it's not how the algorithm works.

As mentioned, it's going to look at the entire group of mates in the war, an overall weighting. Heroes count. Troop levels count. Camp sizes count. And yes, defenses count too.

You did not provide complete details. That would require everything I just mentioned, and more. If one clan is stronger overall from a defensive perspective- you can bet the other side has an offensive advantage. And again- there is no in-lane matching, so mirrors are not to be viewed as any sort of equal. If a max offense TH11 happens to have the same war map number as the opposing TH6- well then the weight difference the TH11 enjoys (and it is noted) will be made up elsewhere on the other side.

Whether that helps your clan or not- is an entirely different story. That is where clan makeup and specific progression comes into play. And this is far more important when it comes to clan wars... than deciding which defense you are going to upgrade next.

---

This means that engineering a clan with some very strong defensive bases (to make the enemy miss a star) and some bases with underdeveloped defences but high troop levels (for destroying strongest enemy bases) in the best way to win wars.
And clans whose players believe in maxing out their bases before upgrading th should understand this.

So can you 3 star their top bases?? If their top bases are TH9s, then you shouldn't have much of a problem and at worst, get a tie with perfect wars on both sides. Yes, defenseless/low defense bases, with good troops are still flying under the radar a bit still. What are your top bases like compared to theirs?? Maybe their top base is a TH8 or mid TH9??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheDevilIncarnate000009

This means that engineering a clan with some very strong defensive bases (to make the enemy miss a star) and some bases with underdeveloped defences but high troop levels (for destroying strongest enemy bases) in the best way to win wars.
And clans whose players believe in maxing out their bases before upgrading th should understand this.

---

No, if bases are used that have underdeveloped defenses with high troop levels (lets assume we are including heroes in this discussion)- they will be counted in the overall weighting by their offensive number, and thus at a liability because they cannot defend well. An easy triple.

Under the current MM tweak, lopsided bases with the best chance to win wars are those that weight low on the defensive side... but only having a relatively average offensive weight for their Town Hall level. Example, a TH11 with a 30k defensive weight, and heroes in the 20/20/10 range is a juggernaut for the pairing. The weighting he takes into the overall is low enough that he can draw bases that are cake for his warden level. If that same TH11 had 35/40/20 heroes- he is generally a liability for the clan. His offensive weighting will probably bring in another TH11 with near maxed defenses. Much harder task for him to triple, and yet easy picking for the other clan.

Important to note, there are many other variables that come into play that can affect this. Clan makeup, size for example. It's much easier to slot a defenseless base into a clan if all the majority of other bases in the war are balanced. Run to many .5s, or defenseless... and it will hurt you. That's the reason why there are wildly different comments coming from engineered clans as to who is seeing more difficult matchups, and who is not- post update. Who is thriving, and who is struggling. Because it depends on the mates around them as well. Their troop/spell levels, and hero levels.