Multi-Stage, Mixed-Troop Comp Attacks

First off, I have always loved "mass attacks" and am a firm believer that "mass attacks" at the highest levels when you aren't OP *always* require a lot of skill to pull off a 3-star once you simply let enemy base designs evolve and adapt. I have not been a big proponent of "mixed troop multi-stage attacks" by any means (mass witch, when it ruled, was one of the most entertaining/exciting/awesome things this game has ever seen IMO!!), but for a minute, let's assume SC wants the game to evolve to mixed-troop multi-stage attacks, and think about what really might be required to do it the "right" way:

(1) Make it possible for such attacks to 3-star a fully maxed TH11 or fully maxed THX if you have max THX troops/heroes and skill. How else are you going to encourage players to adopt this attack strategy unless there is some benefit to using it compared to using traditional army compositions and/or "mass" compositions they are more comfortable with? ...not to mention that it should be possible for the best fair play attackers in the game with max TH11 troops to 3-star a sub-optimal enemy base design once in a while in war!!!

(2) Put more time back on the clock. No one is 3-starring upgraded TH11 now even if you have 10 minutes of time, let alone 3 min 30 seconds! Multi-stage, on average, requires more time to walk an AQ, surgically clear specific areas/defenses, and so on.

(3) "Buff" mixed compositions. I'm not sure what the exact numbers would be, but suppose your army comp was over 65% ground OR over 65% air; i.e., predominantly just one "mode" of troop. Then you get no "bonus" and your troops' hp, speed, dps all remain unchanged. If you have a composition mixed with air and ground where the % of air and ground troops both fall in the 35% - 65% range (healers count as "ground"?), then all troops get a slight "buff" to their hp, speed, or dps, or maybe "the heroes become inspired!" and heroes are buffed slightly when used with mixed comps, lol. Whatever the case, you get the high-level idea! It could be just a 2% hp increase--would have to beta test with different numbers in there.

(4) "Nerf" troops if they are "spammed". Not that you need to do this, because "spamming" has never worked well unless you are OP, but if > 80% of the troops and heroes are all deployed within a certain tile radius of one another, give the entire army and heroes a speed/dps "nerf" because they are having trouble seeing and coordinating, are all in each other's way, and can't attack efficiently--chaos and confusion on the battlefield ensues, even as they spread out due to their deployment. :)

As much as I enjoy "mass attacks" and fight the notion that they do not require skill, especially once the defenses all adjust, I could see a game where mixed-troop multi-stage is genuinely fun or even superior. I just don't think we are headed down the right path by simply making the Eagle Artillery take longer to activate, or the baby drag rage when only in the presence of ground troops, or by noticing that multi-stage can't 3-star but is good at 2-starring, so making the game a 2-star game (boring!!!). When people say they want "mixed-troop/multi-stage" they mean an exciting version of mixed-troop/multi-stage that can yield a 3-star, and not a boring "safe 2-star" game.

3 and/or 4 are the only way you'll truly get multi staged attacks. You either have to buff significantly the widely used troops then add a "spam" penalty to them if too many are used or provide a troop bonus until a certain number are used. Supercell would actually have to reward the multi stage to get diversity.

As it stands right now any more nerfs to troops will render the game unplayable. Especially any "spam" penalty. The only armies being used currently are still comprised of one unit taking up way more than 50 of camp seats. Any penalty to troops bases on the number of slots a given troop takes up will hurt every current army comp. As it is even these "spam" army comps are putting up one, at best two stars. Even farming with barch in gold would suffer.

If i use 17 bowlers and 10 valks is that any different then spamming one troop? Or if i use a gobo followed by a laloon? 240 troops add up to the same at the end of the attack personally I dont see why it matters what i do with em, if you think spamming makes 3*s easier the bases your spamming on are bad miners were not op cause they could be spammed they were op because they locked defenses when underground allowing royals alot of free shots on def, if they fixed that and left miners alone they would have been a 2 star army spammed imo. Killing em altogether ruined the troop and elimated any comp that utilizes them unless its to create a funnel which is a waste of troop space with miners imo. Personally i couldnt get behind all miners i enjoy the multiphase attacks but the armies we have to choose from now simply cant compete with defenses on the map.

All I have to say is get out there and innovate! Have we lost all of our coc attack innovators since mass attacks were developed? Oh yeah that's right, they've all either quit or play clash royale full time now. We need some new attack innovators now more than ever! I've been experimenting with shattered laloon at TH11 with maxed offense myself and having little luck with it but feel it has potential. With friendly challenge there's a lot of opportunity to practice new things and figure out what works and what doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Firkrag

All I have to say is get out there and innovate! Have we lost all of our coc attack innovators since mass attacks were developed? Oh yeah that's right, they've all either quit or play clash royale full time now. We need some new attack innovators now more than ever! I've been experimenting with shattered laloon at TH11 with maxed offense myself and having little luck with it but feel it has potential. With friendly challenge there's a lot of opportunity to practice new things and figure out what works and what doesn't.

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I been getting a ton of high % 1 stars with it as well firkrag

I'm currently using a pretty heavy dark elixer combo because I need elixer more than dark atm. 30% valks, 30% hogs, the rest giants/wiz/healers. Currently farming in crystal and not having any problems getting high % on mid level th10's. Any th9's or 9.5's that look good are toast with this army comp.
So under the OP's suggestion this army comp would get a buff... I like it.

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Originally Posted by smokenbooze1

I been getting a ton of high % 1 stars with it as well firkrag

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What's your comp been like? What's been working, what hasn't been working?

Last war I tried an attack with a KS of 6 bowlers, 2 max wiz, 1 golem, and all 3 heroes. That KS comp, with 2 E spells and 1 DE spell, is just enough to fly under the eagle trigger. The base had 2 air defenses fairly close together along with an inferno behind it. I tried to jump into it to get all 3 and the cc but didn't funnel well enough leaving an air defense still standing, which cost me the 2 or 3 star since the laloon portion wasn't enough to handle the remaining defense. For a first shot not having practiced with it beforehand, it worked out pretty well. I really feel had I gotten that second air d with the KS I would have had it.

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Originally Posted by Firkrag

What's your comp been like? What's been working, what hasn't been working?

Last war I tried an attack with a KS of 6 bowlers, 2 max wiz, 1 golem, and all 3 heroes. That KS comp, with 2 E spells and 1 DE spell, is just enough to fly under the eagle trigger. The base had 2 air defenses fairly close together along with an inferno behind it. I tried to jump into it to get all 3 and the cc but didn't funnel well enough leaving an air defense still standing, which cost me the 2 or 3 star since the laloon portion wasn't enough to handle the remaining defense. For a first shot not having practiced with it beforehand, it worked out pretty well. I really feel had I gotten that second air d with the KS I would have had it.

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1 golem 10 bowlers 6 wizzies 4 wbs 3 royals 1 jump 1 rage, target the aq, 2 ads and ea with ks. 2 hounds 18 loons for the back end. Can swap 5 bowlers for a hound if you prefer. I would suggest hitting richardf up on here i did some fcs over at his clan got good feedback and a nice variety of bases.

The problem I'm seeing preventing many phased attacks above th9 is twofold:
1) tanks at th11 and th10 arent tanky enough to handle the high amount of dps.
2) support troops (hogs/miners/loons) are underwhelming and disappear before you can get the necessary value out of them.

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Originally Posted by RichardF

As it stands right now any more nerfs to troops will render the game unplayable. Especially any "spam" penalty.

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1. I'm not suggesting you introduce a "spam" penalty without concurrently introducing a significant offensive troop "buff" for mixed-troop army comps.

2. I'm not suggesting a "spam" penalty on something like a traditional miner attack where they are deployed all along an edge (and, for the record, think they should make miners tunnel as quickly as they used to, but that's another issue), but a "spam" penalty if you deploy them all in just 1 or 2 spots, since that is idiotic and never worked at TH11 anyway, but TH9.5 guys were able to 3-star TH9 max doing that pre-update and I could feel their pain if I watched some replay down there.

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Originally Posted by smokenbooze1

If i use 17 bowlers and 10 valks is that any different then spamming one troop? Or if i use a gobo followed by a laloon?

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Nope. It makes no difference, and you'd get the exact same "spam penalty" that would offset the "mixed troops buff" you would get, so it would be a wash and we know how mixed troop comps do right now with no buff! NOT VERY GOOD! LOL :)

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240 troops add up to the same at the end of the attack personally I dont see why it matters what i do with em, if you think spamming makes 3*s easier the bases your spamming on are bad miners were not op cause they could be spammed they were op ...

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I actually agree with you 100%. What I'm saying is that, it seems that SC and some high level players are very set on making the game move to a game where mixed-troop/multi-stage is "the best" and "only" way to 3-star tough maxed TH11 bases. I don't agree with that necessarily, but if the game is ultimately headed in that direction and there is nothing we can do about it, then let's get our 2 cents in for how we think it would make the most sense to go in that direction so that the game continues to be enjoyable for most of us!

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Originally Posted by Firkrag

I've been experimenting with shattered laloon at TH11 with maxed offense myself and having little luck with it but feel it has potential. With friendly challenge there's a lot of opportunity to practice new things and figure out what works and what doesn't.

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No, actually we've all been trying to innovate, including "the innovators" of the past. The fact that we have FC and some of the top attackers/innovators in the game are able to FC over and over and over and STILL can't 3-star in war vs. max TH11 with max TH11 Offense is just absolute proof that O was nerfed too much, D buffed too much. We've never seen anything like this before, and it's really unprecedented. When 2-starring TH10's was "the norm" (for fair players), you still saw the best fair play attackers 3-starring ring bases with mass witch or GoWiWi every now and then. Now the same attackers get 10 times the practice and aren't able to come close to a 3-.

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Originally Posted by aquamantis

The problem I'm seeing preventing many phased attacks above th9 is twofold:
1) tanks at th11 and th10 arent tanky enough to handle the high amount of dps.

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Good point. Since the last Golem buff, every single defense has undergone at least 1 level of buffs (if not 2 for some?). The EA doesn't activate, so I won't pretend that's an issue for golems that are used in the initial phase, but max golems vs. max defenses aren't what they used to be.