Facts and Myths about Engineering

Sorry In advance did not read your whole message .

But put simply from a 24/7 war clan based on real people with some mini accounts . We now engineer are upgrades because you have to , we meet very few if not any non engineered clans these days . Fact you only do it tonimprove chance off war wins no real other reason and most clans have done it for sometime not a new thing.

while raiding love a engine base low defences and normally good loot.

Stop trying to kid yourself and anyone else there is any other real benefit other than fudging the war match up.

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Originally Posted by SumoSloth

You are absolutely correct, in the sense that people should be allowed to play however they choose to play. The caveat to that unfortunately is to accept the consequences of your playing style under the current allowable system. If others are playing within the rules than they are also entitled to play how they want, if this negatively affects your game style than you must take in to account the choices I made in a previous post.

1) quit

2) adapt

3) get the rules changed

Judging by your post, you are leaning towards #3

Now fortunately for you, your example highlights exactly these choices (although comparing negatively affecting one's health to the amount of fun derived from a game is a bit of a stretch)... You brought smoking up as an example. Many years ago people had 3 choices 1) staying away from people who smoke (ie. quitting) 2) joining them and enjoying smoking (which many people did), or sticking to non-smoking areas (adapting) or 3) have it become illegal or uncomfortable to smoke in public places, by outlining the negative effects and pressing the government to make the changes. (get the rules changed)

The rules on smoking in many areas have been changed to better the safety to the public, which is great, I propose that the matchmaking algorithm should be changed to better help everyone as well.

However, calling smokers "bad people" did nothing to further the conversation along and helped in no way with the problem at hand. That is in part, the point of this thread.

Another side comment, I have seen this argument before "they are, with their tactics ruining my fun" Stop for a second and think about this idea... What if the opposing player derives fun from winning? What if they derive fun from figuring out the best way in the given system for accomplishing a win? At what point does your fun outweigh the fun of the engineer? Answer: it doesn't and so as long as they are playing within the metrics of the game there is nothing wrong with their tactics.

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So what happens when someone just upgrades a TH. Should they be penalised and set to your special algorithm, how much time frame is a new TH allowed before they are no longer a part of the problem. What you deem better to help everyone doesn't mean half the forum agree with you nor does it actually help.

Why do you think they implemented friendly wars. So people like you could find like minded clans and war. Your solution is already in game, why don't you start a thread requesting details of maxed clans and war from that?

good thread. sums up a lot of points.

on a side note, i think .5s def got nerfed.

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Originally Posted by Smoked

Your comparison is not valid. You compared a statement to a question or request. His statement is the other poster is insulting and thus is a label. Bottom line remains though, grow thicker skin. Seems you need to as well.

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a requests has an impolite statement, so it is the same thing, when i say, please dont insulting me, i am saying you just insulted me, please dont do that, so the statement is always there, if only implied.

but if you want to insult people be my guest, allthough i strongly rekommend you dont.

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Originally Posted by TheFallenDragon

good thread. sums up a lot of points.

on a side note, i think .5s def got nerfed.

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many are reporting this, but some claim its not the case, little to early to tell.

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Originally Posted by FabianDu

I would like to adress something since I don't feel toxicity around this thread, as many claim over the replies of this post, everyone has their own right to play as they like and have fun, but what if any of those playing styles affect the rest?

Not saying everyone must play as a maxer or an engineer, but I would like to ask, isn't engineering lessening the gaming experience and enjoyment of the people who like to war and dont engineer? Not in the same league as modding but in a different way. Why do the people who dont engineer have to adapt? Arent people supposed to play the way they like? With modders seem to be the same thing. Modding or die.

Shouldnt engineer be considered as an attempt to win wars at the expense of other people's fun, and in consequence isnt that making it in some way unethical? If you engineer you are concious of it. The main problem here as said before is not engineering itself but MM in wars. Adapt or die excuse for me is lame. Engineer should be like smoking. As you are allowed to do it whenever you like because is your life , you arent allowed in public spaces because it harms other people health.

What I claim here is, why do we have to change our play style just to win a war? As I am allowed to play how I like I shouldnt be punished for it by getting a matchup against someone who has a huge advantage. As the analogy before, if someone chose to smoke it is his/her problem, but I'm not going to be forced to smoke just because everyone does and say is good for me.

I'm not judging engineers, but them harming my playing style (in wars) with their own is what I'm against. You should be allowed to play the way you like but without bothering anyone else.

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harming others? at the expense of others fun?

♥♥♥♥♥ what are you? do you complain about people taking your loot too? i mean theyre depriving me of my fun too. SHould we nerf losing loot?

smh...

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Originally Posted by Vikingchief

, i

I think you have missed the point, to call engineers unethical is not acceptable for 4 reasons.

1 maxers hurt premmie rushed bases or defence strong bases in war in the same way engineers hurt maxed bases, so to call engineers unethical for doing what you are doing is hypocrisy.
2 engineers are building bases according to the game metrics they have no control over, to say they are unethical for not deliberatly building bases worse so they lose more is silly
3 focusing on he matchmaker, and how it should match, and how best to achieve that is a very productive discusion, insulting engineers results in toxic flame war, where engineers simply respond back in kind
4 most inportantly, its against forum rules to insult one another, i cannot call maxers stupid, even if i believe them to be, its no relevant. Everyone thinks they are right, whether you are objectivly correct is irrelevant - DO NO INSULT OTHER FORUM MEMBERS, you have no right to call me unethical, and i have no right to call you stupid. Simple as that.

please see my post ealier which i assume you missed on the issue, and lets have a good discussion as to how supercells matchmaker would match and why. You post started well and could have developed into an interesting discusion around a neutral point, the matchmaker.

this is my ealier post:

the forums are for discussion, not insulting and flame waring. As soon as you call out engineers and critisise (usually name calling or character assanation) they simply respond in kind, the forums are worse for it, and the mods get involed, which is good for no one.

the second issue is that your critisising players for optimising their upgrade choicechose, given the game metrics which they dont control.

since it is not them who create the game metrics, and since personal attack result in like for like flame wars, the mature thing to do is focus on he matchmaker, and debate what type of matchmaker is best for flash, why its best, and how to achieve it.

you have the exact same discussion, without the toxicity, without the insults and it ends up being productive. All you lose is the chance to insult fellow clashers and forum members, which is against forum rules anyway.

the only poeple who disagree with this, want to inflame, and want to fight.

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So, you are just saying if there were no laws that prevent you to cheat, would you mod? Copy in exams? Win a boxing title by filling your gloves with steel in every fight? Does it have a value? Maybe yes, unethical is too much, but I didnt insult them by saying engineers are unethical, maybe it got lost into transition that I wanted to ask if they are or are not and why. Lets leave that behind, what I wanted to express is that why do I have to tolerate such punishment from the way I play, and why do I have to adapt if there is nothing wrong with it, just people exploiting the MM and I dont because it is not challenging to have 4 or 6 more attacks on the other clans top when they dont.

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Originally Posted by Vikingchief

many are reporting this, but some claim its not the case, little to early to tell.

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Hasn't been the case in my clan, and we have many .5's with very strong offense.

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Originally Posted by FabianDu

So, you are just saying if there were no laws that prevent you to cheat, would you mod? Copy in exams? Win a boxing title by filling your gloves with steel in every fight? Maybe yes, unethical is too much, but I didnt insult them by saying engineers are unethical, maybe it got lost into transition that I wanted to ask if they are or are not and why. Lets leave that behind, what I wanted to express is that why do I have to tolerate such punishment from the way I play, and why do I have to adapt if there is nothing wrong with it, just people exploiting the MM and I dont because it is not challenging to have 4 or 6 more attacks on the other clans top when they dont.

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1) Yes
2) Yes. Better future and career for me.
3) better then getting beat so yes

and everyone has the equal number of attacks in war.

also why do i have to tolerate the punishment of getting my loot taken?

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Originally Posted by 2222

I wouldn't refer to a .5 as "engineered" because there is a more specific term to use: ".5." It is a form of engineering because you are upgrading it in a way to benefit war at the disadvantage of multiplayer play. But I agree I wouldn't call it "engineered" when ".5" is more precise.

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But that is the point, there are more precise terms for all types of "engineered' bases.

Max, X.5, Super X.5, Perma X.5, MiniMax, Preemie, Defenseless.

Engineering is a plan of action to achieve a goal.

All bases are engineered for some goal, calling a base engineered is the pot calling the kettle black.