oh man.Quote:
Originally Posted by nerfedname
you would be very surprised at the lengths people go to justify their losses and not point fingers at themselves.
ive seen people blame their losses on scout hits...
Printable View
oh man.Quote:
Originally Posted by nerfedname
you would be very surprised at the lengths people go to justify their losses and not point fingers at themselves.
ive seen people blame their losses on scout hits...
I've composed this over the past 90 minutes in and around cookign dinner eating and dealing with stuff. i apologize if something isnt completely thought out, i likely forgot something or maybe mis stated something small;
--------------
You are correct. My suggestion for in game NETWORK WARS would solve this -- clans who wish to avoid matching me -could go join a network like the Fair play group -- those clans deny access to anyone .5 or more extreme... they only allow maxers into their wars - to try to make it fair...Quote:
Originally Posted by nerfedname
but lets be honest -- the game will never be fair... even with 10x10 all 100% max th11 players - some of them will hae more experience, a better base design and more time on their hands to practice and --someone -- will have less experience, a worse base and will make a small mistake... -- that is as close to 'fair' as it could ever be... for any clan not using 100% identical accounts there will never be a truly fair war -- Supercell does a GREAT job of making it close.
-Clans like mine are rare -- and mine is the MOST EXTREME example on the server- as far as I can tell -- all the other clans who engineer their rosters -are not as extreme as mine.. -- some have done it longer -- some have heavier bigger stronger accounts - but none boast 50x wars and 100% every time. -If you know one - please tell me so I can go become best friends with them and go exchange tips and advice... lol
We are doing this - because we have to -- if we want to win... If we dont - there is a risk that we could.. loose... why risk loss in a game if you know how it works - can control the battelfield - and if you can bring tanks and nuclear missles to the battle - why leave them at home and bring axes and horses instead?
I play to win - I dont play for a 'fair hard faught battle' -- I'm running a beginner war clan for new players, low level players - and I provide a place for a day 1 town hall 3 to be guaranteed a win... This is just one clan... our NG2 does farm wars -- our aged greatness clan Refuses entry to anyone who isnt a maxer.. no .5's allowed.. no defenseless. etc...
As I've learned how the game works I've imagined some day- some clan will out engineer us.. It's bound to happen.. just as we out maneuver many others... I'm playing a game thats a bit different from 95% of the others.. We're really pushing the boundaries on how to upgrade.. trying to find the perfect bases that can defend / and attack in unique freaky odd ways that are NOT common builds - NOT internet bases - that will confuse our enemies so they really dont know how to attack us...
------------------
You are correct about this- I've visited many and none of them comprehend war weight or the impact that different account decisions make on the long term of their accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFallenDragon
---------
Quote:
Originally Posted by nerfedname
Our clan suffered a few losses for this exact reason - after the 3rd loss I figured out how the developers actually designed this game to work and we all started playing more to suit how the game was made to be played. -- after a couple months of everyone doing offense only to get all our core accounts 1 or 2 town halls higher in offense - now -at worst- we tie. so now we just have to carefully craft our defenses to insure that we dont loose our mojo.
--Those clans should be here in these forums reading this topic.
--When i see those clans in global - or visit them post war -- I educate them and refer them to my website and my topics here. I'm all for everyone trying to be the best they can be - I'm not tring to keep this a secret that only my clan will benefit from...
--------------------
No one knows the Exact algorithm.. I am beginning to doubt that the staff members themselves fully understand it -- it is quite complicated and no one has posted it publicly ( They should - then we could all properly debate its fairness or lack thereof)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendragon47
BUT it can be broken down into the simplest parts - war weight - that you can see and manipulate.
Last year around this time the match making system wasnt very good and many mis matched wars happened by accident - post th11 the matches have been mostly fair - GREAT WORK to supercell for that -- however, now it is more common to see clans throwing 10 or 15 town hall 3's on bottom to bully at the top... This is how we lost a few wars back a year ago...
Now clans like mine- use 10 or 15 high offense accounts instead of those useless th3's... -- and we are trying to build defenses up so that they CAN defend in war -- we just dont MAX... we keep offense above defense a bit more than a .5 would- sometimes quite a bit more... Clans like mine are becoming more common - and SUPERCELL DOES A GREAT JOB OF MATCHING THEM. -- More often than not we are matched to other clans (of identical weight) who have -tried - to engineer.. they have just not done it as well, or for as long as we have. Many of them still deploy lots of useless zero war star spare accounts to try to bully on the top... When that happens they have a few Max 9's or a rushed 10 with infernos -- and our high offense can compensate..
REAL war clans with lots of th10 and 11 MAXER players - rarely see extreme engineered clans like mine-- our weights are too diverse. My clan is 1.1 million to 1.2 million at 50...-- those bigger clans are above 3 million...
So Supercell did GOOD with their matching system over all - you can set your clan weight to whatever u want - and expect to match another clan of identical weight - with pools as small as 5 or 10 clans -almost all of you can match each other in a small potlluck if you start at the same time.
-------------
I'm happy every time me or my players do three things.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
1: defend vs mirror
2: 3 star above mirror (my definition of mirror means a player with identical weight- not the exact numerical opposite)
3: have a town hall and offense that is one level above the player who is their numerical mirror in our enemy clan.
-No need to get mean... but I do see your point- our primary Engineered war clans #1 goal is to win every war - at 100% every time - and defend all the time... (that 2nd part is difficult without having access to max level players)
So as we grow - we just upgrade as smart as we can.
--------------
- It is my belief that this game is meant to be played the way we are playing it... Yes we are trying to be Un beatable - when the war starts we attempt to have a war roster that has a guaranteed 100% offense - and that the enemy will have zero chance to get 100% on us in return - unless they:Quote:
Originally Posted by nerfedname
1: also upgrade smart
or
2: gem.
This is how we were taught to play a year and a half ago when we started loosing wars to clans who embraced this upgrade style before us... So now we are simply playing the game-- the way that it must be played - if you want to have a clan that always wins.
-When I say Mis match - I'm talking visible weight to weight. total clan weight... only - and purely.
The choices made by the players will dictate if they have the ability to win - with the accounts they have chosen to make.
Players who choose to be maxers and simply max at every level will - never - beat us in war... those clans who choose to embrace a hyper optimized upgrade plan (for their entire clan roster; not just 5 or 10 accounts in that clan) -will be the only ones capable of beating us...
short of a mis match where we get an enemy that is beyond our weight... 340k difference is quite extreme..
For 6 months we kept our wars 100% th8 below - enemy had zero th9 accounts and all of our bases were 100% anto th8... in other words we could likely have never lost a war and never tied a war... This worked great for a long time -- but every 30 or so wars we faught another clan who managed to get th9's on top... so we'd tie.
Now we are raising our top accounts to be anti th9. (work in progress) -- its easy to b Anti town hall 8 while still bringing th8 mirrors... its VERY EASY... but to be ANTI th9 and keep th9 mirrors is something I havent figured out yet... 30/30 heroes and max goVa is just .. hard to stop... We have a 71k th11 hybrid now that - may - be able to finally claim to be 100% anti th9... but that account is technically at th10 weights.. so in my own eyes thats a failed experiment because - Id like - to be getting th9 mirrors while being 100% anti th9 on defenses.. maybe by my 3rd or 4th account i'll have it figured out... goal is to be 65k weight and 100% anti aything that a th9 can throw our way.
Anybody can see that the system is broken when you can't lose. It's like saddam's 100% approval rate. Why even bother when victory is already guaranteed.
Anyone can loose -- the system is not broken. Could it use some improvements? Definately! Do I know how to improve it? -- I have some ideas.. but without seeing the fine print actually being published for all to see - I can only guess... and I don't really care to speculate on how they could 'fix' things - aside from being more transparent with how things work.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWarDictator
There are clans out there who could beat us -- its easily a factual thing based on math... All a clan would have to do is -
#1 the same thing we are doing with our smart upgrades
#2 for longer than we have done it
#3 with more accounts than we have doing it.
I am aware of a few clans that exist - who also get 100% most wars- they either do 40x wars or they are much heavier in war weight than we are - so there is zero chance of my clan going head to head with the (few) that I have found that do the same type of thing.
But there are 4 million clans -- there HAS to be others out there who could challenge us - fairly - in an evenly matched weight to weight war... This is why I'm so careful about our accounts- and full clan engineering is designed to prevent the enemy from having any bases that we can not get 100% on. This is a careful balencing act and every war that we succeed - is the first victory...
I'm here to play a different game... I'm trying to insure that our clan can easily get 100% every time - with 10 or more accounts easily clearing the enemy #1 -- all the while making it difficult for the enemy to clear all of our bases.
Last war the enemy failed FIVE times on our #1 base, 3 times on our #2 and many of our weaker bases were cleared by enemy players who were much heavier in weight. The enemy did not use 18 of their accounts - at all - zero attacks from any of them.. (all light weight zero star war fillers they used to try and get an advantage with)
Add to that - the fact that somehow they were 340k ish heavier than us -- they really had everything in their favor... We nearly ran out of attacks in the middle.. we had 16 failed attacks.. ( mostly due to miners and bowlers nerfed and other changes to the game)
Why do you think the system is broken?
I was worried that it might be, my concern is on hold now ;
I think it has something to do with the new update. It is terrible
No doubt you have spent a lot of time doing this engineering and have succeeded. There's a chance that you'll figure out the latest way to beat it but this is not the way the game was meant and that's why Supercell has addressed it. I could point out flaws in your logic but I do not want to help you get where you're going any faster. You can argue all you want - your logic and calculations on war weights in the old system appear correct - where you go wrong is where you think you know how Supercell wants you to play and the validity behind it. I'm actually impressed by the amount of time that you've put into it but this is insanity. You should face similar offense to yours, similar defense to yours and if there's no match out there like that or even close, you're doing something wrong.
No what he should face is similar defense to his offense, which is what SC is looking to eventually get to. (Same would apply to whoever he matches).Quote:
Originally Posted by dHL0L
Supercell nuked itself when they posted matching would be emphasized on defense development thats when engineering became rampant. Now they're doing some damage control.
Well said, it's the same thing only clearer. Maybe they will do something like in Boom Beach where you cannot progress to the next TH level without a certain amount of experience.
No not necessairly that, I'm all against forcing players to build villages in a certain way and in that way only.
But highest offensive power should be somewhat close to the highest opponent defensive power, whatever is your build.
Defenseless TH10 with 100% max offense - should bring 100% max def TH10 on the other side
Now there u have defenseless and extreme .5s rendered useless. While smart engineering (refer to Humbob... or #6M) will keep being a thing, there's almost no way around that but it will always only effect "lower" weights (say no more than max TH9 weights)
It would be cool to know, blombardo, what's your highest offense account? Sorry I won't dig into all your clan's profiles one by one. Quantify that, and you'll see what your opponent #1, in an ideal matchmaking, should look like.
Of course, matchmaking is not this ideal right now
defenseles th10 should not WEIGH as a max th10 but lets say theres a th10 with the power to take down th10s, then there should always be a th10 on the opposing side with similiar strength.Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeBirds