Engineering screwing wars AGAIN.

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Originally Posted by Micker99

Low life cowards or smart planners who took time to understand war weight and use strategy, not just upgrading anything they can, as soon as they have enough gold. Also, they are sacrificing defense against normal raids. I think it's more cowardly to max out defenses, because you are scared to lose loot.

Defenseless bases don't work imho. I have never lost to a clan with defenseless bases. Unless they REALLY spend big bucks and have a maxed out TH10/11 offense/heroes, all they can do is basically take out TH8/9s, which get 3 starred easily anyways.

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Preach!! My clan regularly faces .5 bases and we have .5 bases as well. On the rare occurrence we face a defenseless base its an easy walkover. Clashers whom complain about .5 bases need to get over it and understand this is a STRATEGY game and .5 is a great WAR strategy, you think farming for those heroes and walls is easy as a .5?? Think again - stop complaining y'all play your game whatever strategy it is :)

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Originally Posted by Micker99

The worst thing you can have, is a max defensive base in war. It's weight is so close to a new TH level above it, that it will often be quote paired up with a TH above or a .5. There is ZERO reason to stay at a TH, once your defense is maxed and it shouldn't be before your offense is. You need to pace your defensive upgrades, if you want to max offense/defense at the same time. It takes planning, strategy and patience to create a good base, that is a benefit, not detriment in war.

Some people feel that maxing defense should give you and advantage. Well it does, in the farming side of the game. You will lose less loot/trophies if you have a maxed out base. BUT in war, it's the absolute worst thing you can do. I see clans all the time with a bunch of maxed out TH8/9/10s, that get matched up with a clan that has lots of .5s or newer THs a level above most of theirs. It's the way the game works. If you can't adjust and accept it and do something about it, then I don't know what to say, besides find another game that rewards maxing things out.

Should war be simply about attacking, or is the strategy of base building, knowledge of war weight, obtaining players with the right weight bases etc, also play a part??

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The match making is BROKEN.

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Originally Posted by ChiefTuk

Engineering clans aren't taking a 50/50 gamble. Let's be honest, current matchmaking rewards engineers & punishes people who ignore troop/hero upgrades. The more lopsided you are in either direction, the greater the reward/penalty.

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Current matchmaking rewards those who understand how it works. If you ignore troop and hero upgrades that is your own fault.

We were a maxing clan, and as we got better we came up against more engineering clans, so for the past few months we have changed our tune and are now "engineering" too since it seems to be the only clans that beat us. .5 is available for everyone for free, you dont have to gem a defenseless base or do anything special to obtain it. You upgrade your townhall and start working on offense ignore defense and pump gold into walls.

.5 bases are engineered just not to the extreme level defenseless bases(lopsided) are and those are what need to be taken out of the game.

This isn't how we want to war, but if we wish to remain competitive in wars we need to be doing what our opponents are to take away the advantage and level the playing field.

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Originally Posted by ChiefTuk

Engineering clans aren't taking a 50/50 gamble. Let's be honest, current matchmaking rewards engineers & punishes people who ignore troop/hero upgrades. The more lopsided you are in either direction, the greater the reward/penalty.

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I think you missed part of the conversation Tuk, that was in response to when LG had said something along the lines of "We knew running 2 TH11s with no 10s was a risk for a mismatch, but we thought we could handle it."

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Originally Posted by ryan1707

Your analysis is forgetting a huge factor. The opposing clan has very weak offense in there middle according to your accnt.

A few th10s with th7 to weak th9 offense with low level heros.

The OP should stomp them because the opposing clans top will have to clean up what those rushed th10s cant 3 star.

The opposing clan is strong up top but very squishy in the middle.

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Wrong.

Read what was written at reply #170.

just make some more burners juan

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Originally Posted by VeeBirds

I assumed the 9.5s didn't have extra defenses. 3 xbows is definitely not what I'd call a 9.5 but that's a loose term.
Then again, from #5/#6 downwards they are worse than max 9s defense power-wise

Plus: all their TH10 offense powers have nowhere to be effective because OP's clan has no TH10s

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TH9.5 is up in the air; the pure definition would be someone who does not drop any of the new defensive structures (cannon, archer tower, x-bow, infernos). In reality, it's become more "no infernos" than anything else. Thing is, even with the third x-bow down and upgraded to level 3, this guy is STILL coming in with a lower ranking than what amounts to a brand new TH10 that has everything to TH9 levels and dropped the new items that came with TH10, including infernos. If that doesn't illustrate the problem with the matchmaker and x.5s, I don't know what else could.

The problem here will be the top of the opposing clan's roster. #1 and #2 are essentially maxed TH11s on both sides; that's a wash and will probably generate 2 stars each. If the opposing clan's TH10s are even half ways decent attackers, though, they *WILL* be able to three star all of LG's remaining top 10. Those #3, #4, #5, #6 games though...I don't know if a max TH9 can topple them.

LG's clan has 124 war win streak and they're a level 8 clan; you don't get there by being bad at the game. That suggests they may be able to tie it up at 43/43 when they run their attacks *IF* they work together well; if the TH9s only attack into the opposing clan's TH10s, though, they'll only pull a max of 41 stars.

If they get it to a tie, then the next question becomes one of who destroys more. The opposing clan, with significantly more offensive capability at the top, should be able to pull out greater destruction simply by virtue of their TH11s attacking the other TH11s.

Of course, this all depends on how well the opposing clan performs; they have 121 wins, 7 win streak, and are a level 8 clan whereas LG's clan is also level 8 with 162 wins and a 124 win streak.

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Originally Posted by ryan1707

Your analysis is forgetting a huge factor. The opposing clan has very weak offense in there middle according to your accnt.

A few th10s with th7 to weak th9 offense with low level heros.

The OP should stomp them because the opposing clans top will have to clean up what those rushed th10s cant 3 star.

The opposing clan is strong up top but very squishy in the middle.

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The opposing clan has all the attack strength they need to win in their top 8 games; those below will be able to take down LG's bottom two. And most of the TH10s are not rushed; they're well engineered with decent offensive capabilities.

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Originally Posted by Micker99

The worst thing you can have, is a max defensive base in war. It's weight is so close to a new TH level above it, that it will often be quote paired up with a TH above or a .5. There is ZERO reason to stay at a TH, once your defense is maxed and it shouldn't be before your offense is. You need to pace your defensive upgrades, if you want to max offense/defense at the same time. It takes planning, strategy and patience to create a good base, that is a benefit, not detriment in war.

Some people feel that maxing defense should give you and advantage. Well it does, in the farming side of the game. You will lose less loot/trophies if you have a maxed out base. BUT in war, it's the absolute worst thing you can do. I see clans all the time with a bunch of maxed out TH8/9/10s, that get matched up with a clan that has lots of .5s or newer THs a level above most of theirs. It's the way the game works. If you can't adjust and accept it and do something about it, then I don't know what to say, besides find another game that rewards maxing things out.

Should war be simply about attacking, or is the strategy of base building, knowledge of war weight, obtaining players with the right weight bases etc, also play a part??

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Well said Micker.

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Originally Posted by NeverMor3

Current matchmaking rewards those who understand how it works. If you ignore troop and hero upgrades that is your own fault.

We were a maxing clan, and as we got better we came up against more engineering clans, so for the past few months we have changed our tune and are now "engineering" too since it seems to be the only clans that beat us. .5 is available for everyone for free, you dont have to gem a defenseless base or do anything special to obtain it. You upgrade your townhall and start working on offense ignore defense and pump gold into walls.

.5 bases are engineered just not to the extreme level defenseless bases(lopsided) are and those are what need to be taken out of the game.

This isn't how we want to war, but if we wish to remain competitive in wars we need to be doing what our opponents our to take away the advantage and level the playing field.

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I understand it's becoming more & more of an, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" situation for engineering. Imagine for a moment, if MM was flipped to pay a whole lot of attention to offensive strength & mostly ignored defenses. We'd see bases with th3 troops & max defenses that would wreak havoc on the MM system. As much as I'd enjoy the anguished squawking from the engineers, it would be just as bad for fair wars.

I'm waiting to see how SC addresses the issue. I'm hoping they'll look at some kind of serious weight kickers for certain high value upgrades that are the offensive equivalent of maxed xbows & inferno towers. My guess is they want to preserve the value of upgrading troops ahead of defenses, without it being taken to extremes. No one questions the fact that certain defenses have a dramatic effect on war weight. There's no reason not to treat offenses the same way.

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Originally Posted by ChiefTuk

I understand it's becoming more & more of an, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" situation for engineering. Imagine for a moment, if MM was flipped to pay a whole lot of attention to offensive strength & mostly ignored defenses. We'd see bases with th3 troops & max defenses that would wreak havoc on the MM system. As much as I'd enjoy the anguished squawking from the engineers, it would be just as bad for fair wars.

I'm waiting to see how SC addresses the issue. I'm hoping they'll look at some kind of serious weight kickers for certain high value upgrades that are the offensive equivalent of maxed xbows & inferno towers. My guess is they want to preserve the value of upgrading troops ahead of defenses, without it being taken to extremes. No one questions the fact that certain defenses have a dramatic effect on war weight. There's no reason not to treat offenses the same way.

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its probably going to be more like a comrpomise rather than an extreme nerf,